glad you're back Steve. Like to hear more about your thoughts on eastern philosophy.

Glad you had a nice Thanksgiving. Sounds like your taking it one day at a time which is all we can really do.
I am with you on the Eastern Philosophy. The more I delve into it, the more at peace I find myself. :)

Hi Steve.
Folks up? Need a meeting??? ;) I have so many trigger issues with my family that the impending holidays mean I amp up on recovery...even with half of us in recovery, the family of origin material is thick...probably my biggest practice on letting go...hope you are feeling better physically and getting nurturance spiritually.

As for the east? I love the mix of Buddhism and Recovery, so many lovely principles.
One I was offered recently...

"Neither Grasping Nor Letting Go" This is a great one for me to meditate on. I realize the importance of making those first steps toward disentangling, stepping away, clearing space, etc etc of letting go...on realistic planes. Once I have done what I can do I turn it over to the will of higher power, and continue practicing that turning over.
Turn it Over...
This Poem was sent to me in my grieving...

Turn off your mind relax and float down stream
It is not dying, it is not dying

Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void,
It is shining, it is shining.

Yet you may see the meaning of within
It is being, it is being

Love is all and love is everyone
It is knowing, it is knowing

And ignorance and hate mourn the dead
It is believing, it is believing

But listen to the colour of your dreams
It is not leaving, it is not leaving

So play the game "Existence" to the end
Of the beginning, of the beginning

I love the idea of finding the peace in the midst of that neither grasping nor letting go.
I believe a higher power exists there.
For those of us with issues of codependency, dependency, emotions affected by the insanity of addiction...I think the only way we can get close to the middle ground of spirit is by practicing the "extreme" of Letting Go...
We have been so far over on the grasping that to get to the middle we need to practice the other side for awhile. That's where being emotionally enmeshed with the insanity of addiction left me. We haven't been living in the world of spirit, of eastern philosophy or spirituality...we have been living in the emotional world absent of that and we need the antidote!

hey leslie-

that poem is a beatles song off revolver. one of my favorite songs

The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows - YouTube

and that is an early mix of east in western pop culture. i just listened to this the other day!


if you like this you may like george harrisons recordings withthe rada krishna temple, some great hypnotic chants.

Hey my friend Steve ~ good to hear from you!

You have been in my thoughts & prayers lately as I have had a few struggles myself (but I'll share that on my own thread)

So glad you had a good Thanksgiving & pray that your Christmas is filled with many blessings!

PINK HUGS,
Rita

I was reading the post.I know where you are coming from.When I think of closest thing to compare to an active addict to its an exorcist and I've been trying to beat the demon out of them for 25 years.I go to Alanon to ignore the beast and try to live my life or a least what I got left of it.Currently my little pretty left Detox for the 5th or 6th time and went into a recovery joint.She has been there as many times.She kept asking for permission to come home.Thank god I talked to my sponsor and he said tell her to do what the professionals say to do.If they say she is not ready to come home.Thats your answer Ovid.I've been running the show for 25 years and I still don't know squat.The addict is driven by a 1000 forms of fear and an active addict has lost all thought.I am told( !!Not to have any meaningful conversation with any active addict!!).This is where I usually screw myself out of my own serenity and sanity.I don't know you but I know your a good person with a beautiful heart of gold I'm glad to be here

steve..thanks for starting this thread.. The responses and your struggle r really helpful. I do good with no contact... I thought...Going a month at a time and not seeing or communicating with him...but I still "check" on him in different ways, including talking to certain people he knows...this thread is helping me realize how that keeps me stuck, in certain ways, in my recovery. Confession: I am still hoping for a miracle.... For a bolt of lightning that hasn't come. EVERY piece of "information" either confirms the miserable status quo (hes using/lying) or confirms that things are getting worse. "Checking" for me has been like Chinese water torture. I understand and share your struggle. Im exhausted and cant do this anymore... I feel like its consuming every good part of me. Im not checking or worrying tomorrow... I need ONE day of peace and I wish the same for you...

You're hurting yourself and stunting your growth Steve. By continuing this charade you're subconsciously saying all is well.. but its not is it? quitting requires incredible focus and a clear head. And usually a lot of kicking and screaming. The miracle could happen, but it won't if you're in the way.

keepstrong-

i do get what you are saying. there may be part that is me saying all is ok, when there is something looming underneath. i dont know if i am in the way of anybody but me. i am even getting out of my own way. i have felt pretty good the past couple days.

for any zeppelin fans, i'm goingto see a band that covers then, they sound pretty good. i really cant think of anything i'd rather do tonight than go to a good sized theater and listen to live zeppelin w some friends. any zeppelin fans out here?

oh, yea Steve, Led Zepplin goes way back to my years of partying and I can't imagine listening to this without being high. (Bad thing to say here) Here's one of my favorites.

Led Zeppelin - Ramble On - YouTube

How about "Ten Years After" "I'm goin home to my baby" live at Woodstock

Ten Years After- I'm Going Home (Live At Woodstock) - YouTube

or: Pink Floyd "Time"

Time - Pink Floyd - YouTube

Eric Burdon "Spill the Wine" I luvv Eric Burdon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i0DMbCKnAg&ob=av2e

and the love of my life Stepenwolf "The Magic Carpet Ride"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Wiy...eature=related

I have been to naranon and alanon. They do not interfere with your relationship with your addict. They do suggest leaving if the situation is physically abusive. The point is to get better. You learn to live, that is, with or without your addict. You just learn to live for yourself. I have read threads about loved ones recently learning about their addict's drug use and not knowing whether to stay or leave. Of course in my mind I know that if the person stays that it will get worse and chaotic but all I can do is share my experience. I have been in this relationship for years and just hitting what I believe to be my first bottom days ago. I will not criticize anyone being in the situation because I am now in what I think is a better place that I was before.

Throughout my journey, I have met people with active addicts still in their lives but in better condition mentally than I am with him physically gone. I refuse to judge a person by no contact or where they are when it comes to their addict. What matters is where they are with their own recovery. When I was going to naranon, with my addict still physically here, I was in a better position than I am now with him gone and with me confused, frustrated, angry, and depressed. I stopped working on myself and that is where things fell apart for me. It did not fall apart when he used again, or left again, or I was on the roller coaster again.

I have kept up no contact for 5 days, although the ones that I count most are today and yesterday when he tried to contact me and I was able to resist. Does that mean it will be like this forever? I hope so but if not that does not mean that I am not trying to get better. That is why I stayed so long. I saw so many efforts that he made to stop using even though I did not agree with them. When he would use again I would say see you should have done it my way. Maybe he means no harm, maybe he wants to get clean but at this point hoping and trying is not worth my sanity which is why I am trying a DIFFERENT way this time. Steve, I do not believe that you are in the same place as when you began. I am sure you are able to do things that you were not able to do.

For the first time I am able to avoid the phone calls....never before. I was never able to avoid a phone call once let alone twice. If I missed the call for WHATEVER reason, I knew the location of the pay phone and would drive around that area until I found him. Even if you are able to avoid contacting her but responds when she contacts you I am sure that is a step up from trying to contact her no matter what.

Steve
Just follow your heart love is love.I love my wife she tries hard .I don't want to make it sound like its a 25 year nightmare.There are beautiful,beautiful times and there are hard times.The problem is the hard times erase all the good ones.I mostly do what I want especially in the hard time faze.She suffers from a sickness and dilemma that whoops her ass.Watching this unfold I honestly feel sorry in some situations.The energy that goes into it makes me dizzy.If I could bottle or harness it,We could power a city instead of my house.If anything just remember Rule (#1) No meaningful conversation (#2) Never argue in an enclosed place (Car,House or anything where you are trapped without an exit.(#3) Talk to them like a child and like child protective services are present monitoring.My sponsor told me this 12 years ago and it saves my ass and keeps me present in my own life.I almost have had car accidents and can go from suicide to homicide if I'm in any enclosed area by now following #2.My sponsor does H&I in prisons he tells me there are alot of codependants in jail for murder.I was listening to Led Zeppelin today one of my favorites

Peace

I have a lot of interest in eastern philosophy, too. I don't know about it, but I like to read stuff about Zen and Buddhism and stuff. I grew up in a Christian household. A lot of my beliefs are a blending of the two. The Zen stuff gives me a different way of viewing life and situations. I really want to learn how to live in the moment. I sometimes have to remind myself to enjoy the present--whatever is happening. I don't want to think that I will feel better when this happens or that happens. I have the Zen daily calendar, and I like the little sayings.

Steve how are you doing? Ive been reading some of your threads and felt the same feeings and gone back and forth a lot more than is obvious in my posts. I get what Canfix is saying....i have a close friend who basically stopped talking to me because I havent filed for divorce and she doesnt want to hear it anymore....she told me "you are one of the loveliest, smartest people I know...how can u be so stupid to stay married to him and risk your financial and emotional well being???" I dont have an answee for her.... But it hurts that she isnt around, but I understand....people can handle what they can handle...i respect her boundary. My point is (rambling) I moved out, see/communicate with him once a month but am not ready to file....thats ok because thats where I am at.....i agree with Canfix that its ok wherever u are at and I hope u keep posting as your posts have helped me tremendously....

At the risk of hijacking a thread, I just wanted to comment that all of us (addicts and codependents) will recovery at our own rate.

I'm grateful for SR because it has truly let me see addiction and recovery from many perspectives.

Addicts tell each other that they don't need to give up their DOC until they're ready. Others just don't understand!

Codependents tell each other it's okay to stay with their addict (or whoever they're trying to save) because of course they are doing it out of love. Others just don't understand!

People on this board can sometimes go beyond ESH because a poster might remind them of themselves, parents, siblings, or loved ones. Others just don't understand!

The wheels of addiction and codependency keep on turning until we decide to get off.

I think we're all exactly were we need to be at this point in time.

I'm grateful to everyone who posts on this forum.

Back to the original thread :-)

Hope you enjoyed the concert Steve!

Thank you for letting me share.

db

No Quarter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eolE...eature=related


Friends:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhkCD...eature=related


i'm keeping this post light, as i am kind i drifting and jamming in my office at the moment. but i do want to thank everyone for support and all and although some names were mentioned above, i just want to say that my list includes a whole bunch of more names who have helped.

and i am mostly glad that somehow my posts have helped others.


i love that my office is totally secluded. how awesome is it that i can sit back an listen to this, most mondays i have been spending watching bugs bunny and looney tunes for like an hour or so.


so back to the subject- i guess the good thing i feel is that while there is still contact, i do not feel like i an in the front seat. i dont feel i am on the ride at all. i kind of feel that i am on one of the benches that are along the gates that surround the ride, eating some sort of junk food. so, while i am still in the park and hanging out be THE RIDE, it feels like progress to not be on the ride- and just for today, that makes me feel good.

black sabbath planet caravan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRMqHHcCh8E

I love your glass half full attitude!

I wish I had your grace.

Take what you want and leave the rest. At meetings I attend everyone is given the chance to speak...except for the fact that we run out of time. There is probably always a person who shares too long, too much, off subject, etc etc. This online site is so freeing because there is always time to share. Our experience, strength, and hope includes a wide array of sensibilities. We witness each other. When I joined I didn't realize Steve had been on here for as long as he has been. I have not witnessed him for the length of his struggle. The voices of those who have been really strong ("strength") come out of their own "experience" of frustration...whether for him or because of a trigger.

Whether or not those voices helped him, they did help me. I don't want to be stuck in this position for months and months. It has taken me two years to get to the point of having my ex ABF move out. My family and friends are a little tired. I know I am. The voices of those who are saying things in a stronger way...using symbols like "beating a dead horse" and "step away from the addict!" are NEEDED. (Those symbols are provided on the response panel! Plus they are humorous and to the point! Obviously they are there for and because of a reason!)
We don't get to choose peoples responses to OUR addiction.
We don't get to choose peoples responses to others.
We can certainly disagree...I hope that if people are really so upset with a post that they can message directly to that person...or just go ahead and say it out loud.
I am not going to go back and do a process of elimination and see whose name was NOT named in the list of "acceptable" posts. I know that when I have read some of the "stronger" tougher love kind of posts...even though they were in response to Steve...I was the one who kind of needed to hear it!!!

Peace and Patience, Diversity and Acceptance
You Never Know Whose Voice You Need to Hear!

i realized again that maybe it is not clear how long i have been here and what brought me here. so, i thought it maybe helpful to briefly outline my timeline. i did not come here after having months or years of exposure to addiction, i came in totally blind.

-it was after about 2 years of knowing her that i was presented with the bag of evidence of hard drug use. that is when i joined the board.

-after 4 months, i packed up her stuff. she was not nearly as bad as where she would get. nor was i.

-i quickly got back on my feet, seriously, it was like two weeks and i was in my groove.

- about a year later i heard about her addiction. i stepped right into it. that is when i started posting in earnest. immediately after finding that out. i was warned, oh was i warned.

but there was nothing that would have stopped me. i had to get involved.

that was exactly 18 months ago

it probably took 4 months to start to understand addiction. then there was the 'maintaining' period where for a few months i 'helped' as i could to try to keep her afloat until the rehab would come, that never really came. so that was like the first 6-7 months. now i was really just starting to understand addiction. and only just starting to understand that i too had a problem.

then the next four months was all about me not taking any action. i guess during that time i started to see how far i had fallen and again only just began to understand addiction.

exactly a year into it is when she moved away. over the summer i learned more, and this fall 16 months into the whole thing is when the spark went off that i need recovery.

i'm not trying to say that i am right on track or excuse and delay or apologize for my pace, but when i look at it this way, it doesn't seem quite as bad as saying i have been here forever and stagnant. i have only really tried to start taking care about me, so i will keep at it.

there is no time but my own time. and it is becoming my time as i find myself listening to old grateful dead songs that used to be beams of sunlight for me.

as is the following one:

Grateful Dead - Box Of Rain [Lyrics] - YouTube

Grateful Dead Box of Rain: (believe it if you need it, if you dont just pass it on)

Look out of any window
any morning, any evening, any day
Maybe the sun is shining
birds are winging or
rain is falling from a heavy sky -
What do you want me to do,
to do for you to see you through?
this is all a dream we dreamed
one afternoon long ago
Walk out of any doorway
feel your way, feel your way
like the day before
Maybe you'll find direction
around some corner
where it's been waiting to meet you -
What do you want me to do,
to watch for you while you're sleeping?
Well please don't be surprised
when you find me dreaming too

Look into any eyes
you find by you, you can see
clear through to another day
I know it's been seen before
through other eyes on other days
while going home --
What do you want me to do,
to do for you to see you through?
It's all a dream we dreamed
one afternoon long ago

Walk into splintered sunlight
Inch your way through dead dreams
to another land
Maybe you're tired and broken
Your tongue is twisted
with words half spoken
and thoughts unclear
What do you want me to do
to do for you to see you through
A box of rain will ease the pain
and love will see you through

Just a box of rain -
wind and water -
Believe it if you need it,
if you don't just pass it on
Sun and shower -
Wind and rain -
in and out the window
like a moth before a flame

It's just a box of rain
I don't know who put it there
Believe it if you need it
or leave it if you dare
But it's just a box of rain
or a ribbon for your hair
Such a long long time to be gone
and a short time to be there