athomewaiting

here is my question, i have found that the recovery process has some double talk. Now when the person comes home from rehab, and they are clean, do you have the threat of if you do drugs you cant live here, that doesnt sound very supportive, is it atmosphere, but all the addicts i talked to said that if they really want to get high they will get it, so the cravings are gonna be there no matter what, and if they do relapse, by throwing them out and not having anything to do with them, that isnt supportive either, their brains arent working right. so whats the happy medium?

Chino

When my daughter lived at home and relapsed, she was not allowed to stay here until she jumped back on the wagon. Yes, her brain was hijacked but whatever consequences she encountered 'out there' were stronger than her drug of choice, and brought her to her knees.

That was not a punishment for her, it was our boundary for our well being (we live a sober life and won't have active addicts in our home!). She understood and accepted it at the time, and she respects us for it now.

hello-kitty

Allow recovering addicts the dignity to make their own decisions regarding their recovery and to feel the natural consequences of their actions.

Set boundaries for the behavior you will accept in your life and in your home. Determine the action you will take if your boundaries are violated. Follow through.

Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Don't say it mean.

It's not about controlling other's behavior, it's about treating yourself with respect.

neferkamichael

Athomewaiting if it is unacceptable for the individual to use in your home, if they relapse then dont allow it, do whatever you have to, to prevent it.
If they relapse and will steal from you, then take whatever measures you have to, to stop it.
The one thing I would not allow is an addicts addicted friends into your home.
If you know the person in recovery is trying to manipulate you dont allow.
You being supportive is only natural for a loved one, but you can only do so much for an individual no matter what.
If they want to quit they will.

lesliej

you're already assuming that she is "coming home"...
you are already considering whether or not to make ultimatums.
you are already trying to figure out how to both try to control her use by making an ultimatum but then "protect your supply" by not having to actually throw her out if she crosses the threat. sounds to me, because it sounds so much like my own self, that you are totally addicted to her.
already all of your fears are centered around how to cage her in the home so she won't use. she is an addict in need of recovery. having a hovering codependent who is addicted to her won't help.
I too heard all of the double talk because I was always searching for "loop holes" so I could "keep" my addict

Chino

That is a perfect bottom line and I felt the need to quote you, as a reminder to myself. Thank you

lesliej

I am going to clarify just a little bit too...
I had ABF move out and we are having very very minimal contact.
I do not know what the future will bring, I know he needs at the VERY least 6 months clean.
My own clarity and recovery will be getting better ground every day over those 6 months...I need to be "clean" too.
Because of his relapsing/active addiction he has some major work to do. I picture him with a pyramidical hierarchy of needs...of things he needs to do to promote his recovery. Acting like he is okay in order to be with me and feel comfortable; or leaning on me,and becoming "less than" in doing so, rather than an equal; or paying attention to some of his immediate priorities to SURVIVE rather than fulfill some romantic responsibilities to SOMEONE ELSE...all of these are would NOT be helpful.

I am turning it over to a higher power, that power loves him more than I do. That love is about both of us, about the best for both of us. I do not know what will happen down the road, I have a feeling we may not be together and that is okay. Life is not just about me and my wants and wishes and desires. My AH needs life before he needs my love.

Let go and let god. Turn it over. Pray.

athomewaiting

thank you everyone for your helpful advice, a little more info to see what you all have to say about it, well she has called me everyday since the therapy session, the 1st 2 days she was asked how i was doing and just talked for the 5 minutes she was allowed and she says i love you at the end of each call, (a little background) I was the one who told her enough is enough, its time to grow up and ge some help because i dont want to be with her or live with her if she doesnt get clean, we lived together for the past 2 and half years, so all of her belongings and her money, funiture, all the pictures on the wall it looks like she still lives her just on vacation. so she asked me to get her a carton of cigs with her money for her mom to bring up with her who was going to visit her on saturday because its her weekend off, and that she just got off the phone with her and said she would call me when she was going up to visit her to pick it up, visiting hours are between 1-3 on sat. and sun. only, sat. comes no mom, no call, nothing, then she calls me on saturday during the day around 2:30 and i said i hadent heard from her mom, she said she would probably be coming up on sunday, and to also give her one of her hoodys and the cigs, today comes and no mom again, no call nothing, this is what im talking about with her mom, im sure between 9-10 i get a call. what to do?

useyourwords

After detox, after rehab, months into a sober living house, a sponser, and daily NA meetings it was my sister who said to my mom that should she ever come home again (which at this point she has no plans to do - she has realized that she will likely need years clean before she can ever come back to our home city) and should she ever use again that my mother should not let her live at her house, should not give her money, should not bail her out of jail, or otherwise enable. Sadly, my mother is a hopeless codie who refuses to even consider that she should look at herself, so if/when the time comes she sadly will find the "loopholes" and look for the good old "being supportive" excuse and try to forget that my sister ever said that. because my mom might not be using drugs but, just like many of us here, when it comes to her AD her "brain isn't working right" either. The difference is you are here because you are seeking your own recovery . . .my mother is not!

athomewaiting

yea i dont understand her mom, the day i took her to rehab i asked her what i should tell her mom when she comes looking for her, because they talk on the phone every night, and she only lives 15 min. away, she didnt tell her yet, why i dont know, but i guess she was under the impression she would go in and detox and be back in a couple of weeks at the most, but even after almost 10 days, she didnt so much as call me or bang on the door to find her daughter, and then after what happened this weekend with not visiting her, its ashame.

outtolunch

I used to resemble that statement. I convinced myself it was my job to "support" my daughter's recovery. I managed to make her recovery all about me instead of giving her the dignity to figure it out for herself.

msmom

Hello All,
1. Thank you for being here...
2. It's been a devastating yr.- losing my job and my home, in that order. Fire destroyed my house...but I am well on the way to getting a new house built.
3. My dear 30 y.o. son spent 5 wks in rehab...only to be thrown out for a nicotine patch. He was put on a bus with no way to get to our city after the last transfer...a 5 hr. trip. I know I am needing to detach...but the situation of his discharge from the facility is suspect, IMO. I've been a member of Naranon for several years, and I have great support. My instincts tell me that I need to advocate for my son...but not enable him to relapse into his victim role. There is more to this story, but the immediate problem is that he is at psych. risk. I left a message at the rehab...not sure if they'll get back to me.
I have so much to be thankful for ... esp. my H.P.

lesliej

I think that another reason I heard all the double talk is that I was in love with someone who had a certain "splittedness"...there were interim times when he would get some clean time and then the love would grow and then the addict would rise back up and begin the lying and manipulation...quite often it was the moody space in between.
As a codependent, even working with tools of recovery, I began to develop a "splittedness" in my reactions and emotions. I would hate him and ask him to leave when he used and then love him and ask him back and really believe myself that this was the best place for him...
so I began to resemble the split in the disease, I began to develop it.
Even in recovery I would say "yes, you're right it's probably best for him to go and focus on his recovery" BUT BUT BUT then turn around and say "but I love him, and this is the best environment..."

Never, ever did a 3rd party really ever agree. It was my own will, and it was my will turning pretty schizoid or bipolar by being in direct relation with the addiction.

athomewaiting

so id have to say now that im past the intial shock, and i went thru the angry phase, and from a few nar anon meetings, that i have come to recognize the whole codependent thing, i will say that i also realized what i was doing wrong and like everyone says, say what you mean, mean what you say, but dont say it mean, im in that place now, i have backed off and let the chips fall where they may, i might not like the waiting part or not seeing her, but i know if i just leave her alone and let her heal she will be back, LOL and besides i got all of her worldy belongings, and those cigs are still sitting on my table, suprised she hasnt called. but hey thats on her....she wanted space and kicked the only person shes got to the side, besides her mom and you see how far that got her. but thats what i have to do if i want her to come back clean. and stay that way. because i know now that im not dealing with the drugs anymore, not in my so called enabler house, thats why she went to rehab in the first place, because i told her that i didnt want to live with her or be with her if she is going to use.

Chino

Have you shared with her that you believe she went because of you?

lesliej

you must feel really powerful being the "only person she's got"... she must feel a lot of self esteem and like an equal partner with you.
I have come to believe that even with 6 months, or a year, or two years, or more, clean my ex ABF and I will not be able to resurrect our love because due to the absence of recovery our love was sacrificed to addiction and codependency. If we were together it would take a HUGE amount of effort to overcome the memories, the roles that developed... of being used, being lied to, and the worrying/watching monitor I became. I wouldn't even be surprised if, since he ended up using while we were together, I have now become a trigger...I represent part of his shame, and for me to keep old resentments and concerns at bay would suck up HUGE amounts of energy.
As much as I hate to admit it I think that eventually he will need to be with someone who he did not put through suffering and struggling with. There won't be triggering memories there. The triggers are insane with drug addiction.
Anyway, I think it's the MOST loving thing I can do, to set both of us free, face the pain of the separation and loss of love, and move on. There is a big f'n dead horse between us and neither one of us needs to drag it around.
I have my doubts on his capacity to even know the horse is dead. it will take a realllllly long time in recovery for him to see clearly how he killed it.
certainly not a couple o quik nar anon mtgs and a carton o cigs

lesliej

you see "her wanting some space" to deal with rehab and recovery as her "kicking the only person she's got to the side" how so completely UNsupportive is that?????

lesliej

I have been in AA recovery for 6 years and in al anon for a year with two intensive retreats and the layers of my own denial and realization of codependent and enabling behavior keep revealing themselves and becoming clearer.
please don't think you've got this down in a week or so. you don't do anyone any good, even your "name" is kinda scary

athomewaiting

you all totally took my last response the wrong way, i dont feel good about that at all, i really think its ashame, i am in no way happy about what her mom did or kicking me to the curb, that LOL was more of a im trying to be strong, and want to run to her, and i was laughing at myself because of the fight within, but i have been thru so many emotions in the last week i am mentally fed up and tired, and at this point even i feel i need time away.

and as far as kicking someone when thier down and being unsupportive, which one do you want, enabler, codependent, i wish that i could be more supportive, she doesnt want that right now, but all i have heard here and every meeting that ive been to was either to back away or forget about her and move on. and thats tough to do because I knew her before the drugs, and after one of her exbf's got hooked on heroin and she went to rehab the first time, then came out and found me and i didnt find out about that problem till she relapsed after our first year together. im doing what she asked, backing off, to bare with her and be strong.

as far as having all her stuff, that just tells me that at some point in time, good or bad, together or not, ironicly , i will have to see her if she does come back and you know her mother isnt going to move it for her if she doesnt live here in the end. oh and by the way my name doesnt sound that creepy, sounds lonely.

devastated

Back in August my son admitted himself, with the help of his parole officer, to a rehab. He stayed there even after he graduated the program. This was the best rehab ever. They helped him get into a SLE, which is where he is now. Sober Living Environment is a house where he has two roommates.

Guess my answer to your question is they can find sober living environment homes/apartments in which they can stay after they graduate rehabs. As far as I'm concerned this works best of all.

However, I guess it depends on the age of the person too. I mean, my son is a grown man just turned 49, so I had no problem saying NOT HERE!

He's doing great. He has to pay rent there so needless to say, he got a job immediately after getting out. He would have stayed at the rehab, but felt it was not the way to practice sobriety.

Is there SLE's where you live? If so, you might suggest that.

Hugs, Devastated