From the Addict's Perspective
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
I am very grateful to hear your side of things. My son won't open up at all about his addiction so I just have to guess at how he might feel.
What I don't get is why addicts say they don't love themselves. I just can't figure out why my son thinks less of himself. He had a great childhood, lots of friends but somewhere about middle school things went South (although we didn't know it till years later). He has a lot of potential. He won't go to counseling and I can't reach him really. I suppose he'll just have to stew in this until he gets tired of it and wants out. We are also enabling him but starting to stop now.
He goes to work every day and seems to be off drugs for long periods and then is on them again and off and on. I don't get it but am kind of tired of trying to get it. Your posts and those of others who were addicted help so thanks.
I love him dearly and I hate it when I hear people call addicts 'druggies' with such disdain as if they are the scum of the earth. Yet he has me so worn down with all the drama that I just rather not be around him. I just started feeling this way. I have to be around him for the moment so I'm kinda stuck for a bit until I can figure something out.
Anyway, keep posting, it helps.
Kari
What I don't get is why addicts say they don't love themselves. I just can't figure out why my son thinks less of himself. He had a great childhood, lots of friends but somewhere about middle school things went South (although we didn't know it till years later). He has a lot of potential. He won't go to counseling and I can't reach him really. I suppose he'll just have to stew in this until he gets tired of it and wants out. We are also enabling him but starting to stop now.
He goes to work every day and seems to be off drugs for long periods and then is on them again and off and on. I don't get it but am kind of tired of trying to get it. Your posts and those of others who were addicted help so thanks.
I love him dearly and I hate it when I hear people call addicts 'druggies' with such disdain as if they are the scum of the earth. Yet he has me so worn down with all the drama that I just rather not be around him. I just started feeling this way. I have to be around him for the moment so I'm kinda stuck for a bit until I can figure something out.
Anyway, keep posting, it helps.
Kari
I find the F/F side to be more often more loving patient and compassionate than the recovery side. And less snide. These folks want us to heal and share in that healing where as addicts are selfish while using than often become selfish in their recovery. I didn't say "ALL" so don't bother defending yourself if you feel convicted in your generosity I love both sides and get triggered by responses all over the board. Those are the posts that teach me a lot about myself and my level of generosity and compassion. We are all learning and healing. Thank you for starting this thread
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
When I was told my AH wasn't drinking/using "at" me, he was just drinking/using, it made all the difference in the world for me. Until that point I took offense at his use, it seemed like an insult that he had chosen to use, rather than choose me. It softened my bitterness and opened my eyes to a whole world of compassion for him (and no - not "codie" enabling compassion). I could look past the stranger in front of me and see the pain of the man I once knew.
My AH has never been abusive or threatening and I often wonder if he becomes that way whether I will lose this compassion.
My AH has never been abusive or threatening and I often wonder if he becomes that way whether I will lose this compassion.
Perhaps love isn't exactly the right word.....priority would, perhaps, be better.
Love is action. It is the determination to do good for the beloved. So, when someone whose only priority is to get high or drunk treats their "loved ones" in a way that is not for their good, then love is definitely not the correct word. And yes, people who have addiction problems do not "love" themselves either because they are not doing themselves any good and are even lying to themselves.
What I hope you will do is continue to read the stories on the F&F forums and keep an open mind. I also hope you understand that when we need to vent, we need to vent. Just like when someone struggling with addiction needs to vent. You have received many really wonderful responses here, and we do appreciate hearing from those who struggle with addiction because it does help us to understand. It's why I read the threads in the A and SA forums here.
Take good care,
HG
Love is action. It is the determination to do good for the beloved. So, when someone whose only priority is to get high or drunk treats their "loved ones" in a way that is not for their good, then love is definitely not the correct word. And yes, people who have addiction problems do not "love" themselves either because they are not doing themselves any good and are even lying to themselves.
What I hope you will do is continue to read the stories on the F&F forums and keep an open mind. I also hope you understand that when we need to vent, we need to vent. Just like when someone struggling with addiction needs to vent. You have received many really wonderful responses here, and we do appreciate hearing from those who struggle with addiction because it does help us to understand. It's why I read the threads in the A and SA forums here.
Take good care,
HG
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
I remember spending Christmas one year dope sick on my couch cause I was broke. I saw my brother receive a lot of cash. I took the cash and drove over to my dealers. However, I just couldn't bring myself to steal from him. Even in withdrawals. I drove back home and put all the money back.
But good for you. And good for your brother too.
No, but everything done to acquire more gear is done in spite of the hurt that it causes others. I'm not saying that it isn't a precarious place to be in, choosing your addiction over everything else time and again in spite of your better judgment, but there are no innocents in this game. It is good for you to read this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 142
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 142
Oh, can you guys explain al-anon and narc-anon to me? I don't quite get it, but I'm trying. I don't think my family ever enabled me, for the last few months of every-day using I lived by myself, bought my own stuff, etc. My mom only ever called to check that I didn't OD again. I talked to my sponsor about that the other day and he told me I had no enablers, my family and friends did everything right.
I don't understand this "codependency" thing. It seems with Wikipedia that codependents have an issue with narcissists. But most addicts aren't narcissists in my experience. The hallmark behaviors of addiction however are very similar to narcissism, but the motivations behind the two are very different.
I don't understand this "codependency" thing. It seems with Wikipedia that codependents have an issue with narcissists. But most addicts aren't narcissists in my experience. The hallmark behaviors of addiction however are very similar to narcissism, but the motivations behind the two are very different.
It seems with Wikipedia that codependents have an issue with narcissists. But most addicts aren't narcissists in my experience. The hallmark behaviors of addiction however are very similar to narcissism, but the motivations behind the two are very different.[/QUOTE]
Right....but loved ones are not experts. We just know that these people makes us "feel good"......we don't know why.....or what motivates that.
Right....but loved ones are not experts. We just know that these people makes us "feel good"......we don't know why.....or what motivates that.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
I think if anyone here "hated" their addict, they wouldn't be here trying to cope with having an addict in their life in the first place. They would walk away from the addict and cut all ties and communication.
The anger may seem unfair or misplaced, but it's really quite normal. Many here have had their lives thrown into chaos because of the behavior of another. We're here learning to cope with loving someone while recognizing we can't control their outcome. We're learning to continue loving them while mitigating the damage their use does to us, mentally, emotionally, physically and financially. Sometimes we have to be reminded (or convinced) that they aren't doing this out of lack of concern for those around them, but because they are sick. It's easy to forget that. The pain I've experienced with respect to loving an addict is primarily because I hate watching them suffer. If I didn't care greatly and have compassion for others, it wouldn't bother me.
For me, co-dependence is what you get when you take someone whose life is in chaos, and another person that thinks they have some control to fix that. It's complicated because you can often help with individual situations another person is in, by bailing them out, paying their bills, taking their keys, etc, but in the long run all the "fixing" does is remove their immediate consequences and pave the way for them to continue living like they do.
The anger may seem unfair or misplaced, but it's really quite normal. Many here have had their lives thrown into chaos because of the behavior of another. We're here learning to cope with loving someone while recognizing we can't control their outcome. We're learning to continue loving them while mitigating the damage their use does to us, mentally, emotionally, physically and financially. Sometimes we have to be reminded (or convinced) that they aren't doing this out of lack of concern for those around them, but because they are sick. It's easy to forget that. The pain I've experienced with respect to loving an addict is primarily because I hate watching them suffer. If I didn't care greatly and have compassion for others, it wouldn't bother me.
For me, co-dependence is what you get when you take someone whose life is in chaos, and another person that thinks they have some control to fix that. It's complicated because you can often help with individual situations another person is in, by bailing them out, paying their bills, taking their keys, etc, but in the long run all the "fixing" does is remove their immediate consequences and pave the way for them to continue living like they do.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: at the beach
Posts: 339
Nightsd,
thank you so much for deciding to post here and giving us the perspective from "the other side". i agree with the notion that some posts do have a lot of anger and "hate" in them and i also can see where those feelings come from. it is not fair for us, the f/f, to feel as if all our troubles come from our addicted loved ones. we sometimes have to learn how to take responsibility for our own feelings and it is something a lot of us struggle with.
for me, personally, i cannot say that i hate my AH. i do love him with all my heart, despite all the lies and deceptions. it helps to separate the actual person from their actions when they are active addicts. and i do agree that most addicts do not hate their families or intentionally try to hurt them. their addiction and obsession w/ drugs/alcohol prevents them from rationally processing the effects of their actions on others. i honestly don't believe that my husband has any notion of how his addiction has affected me in a negative way. all he thinks is that by doing drugs, he is only hurting himself. and he is right to a certain extent, b/c in the long run it is the worst for him. the fact that he is also hurting his family is not something that he is after; it is almost like a by-product of a bad chemical experiment.
in short, i don't agree w/ anyone who considers addicts "bad people". i don't like labeling, either, and apologize if anyone gets offended by the use of the word "addict".
sorry, this is so long, but i just wanted to let you know that i appreciate you taking the time to talk to us about the feelings that someone who uses drugs/alcohol might have. it is often hard to talk to our loved ones about it, since it is a very touchy subject.
good luck in your recovery and thanks again.
thank you so much for deciding to post here and giving us the perspective from "the other side". i agree with the notion that some posts do have a lot of anger and "hate" in them and i also can see where those feelings come from. it is not fair for us, the f/f, to feel as if all our troubles come from our addicted loved ones. we sometimes have to learn how to take responsibility for our own feelings and it is something a lot of us struggle with.
for me, personally, i cannot say that i hate my AH. i do love him with all my heart, despite all the lies and deceptions. it helps to separate the actual person from their actions when they are active addicts. and i do agree that most addicts do not hate their families or intentionally try to hurt them. their addiction and obsession w/ drugs/alcohol prevents them from rationally processing the effects of their actions on others. i honestly don't believe that my husband has any notion of how his addiction has affected me in a negative way. all he thinks is that by doing drugs, he is only hurting himself. and he is right to a certain extent, b/c in the long run it is the worst for him. the fact that he is also hurting his family is not something that he is after; it is almost like a by-product of a bad chemical experiment.
in short, i don't agree w/ anyone who considers addicts "bad people". i don't like labeling, either, and apologize if anyone gets offended by the use of the word "addict".
sorry, this is so long, but i just wanted to let you know that i appreciate you taking the time to talk to us about the feelings that someone who uses drugs/alcohol might have. it is often hard to talk to our loved ones about it, since it is a very touchy subject.
good luck in your recovery and thanks again.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 455
Nightsd- Nar anon and Al anon provide support for the friends/family of substance abusers. Often the friends/family are enablers although perhaps not in every case. For me, codependency means allowing one's mental/physical/emotional state to be a function of an addicts' mental/physical/emotional state. Because such codependency can be destabilizing, friends/family often need to detach from their addicted loved ones and create personal boundaries to maintain some peace/sanity in their lives.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 11
Hi- I hear you. I try and see things from both sides. I also consider myself an alcoholic, and no longer drink. But since right now, my issues are concerning my non sober family members. In my personal situation, I came to realize that I had a problem. I needed to be there for my daughter, and that I was hurting others and myself. So, I stopped. I sought help. My daughters father on the other hand, is the complete opposite. And it seems that he really doesnt care. In fact, yesterday, (I kicked him out bec of his continued binge drinking) was supposed to have visitation with our daughter in the morning. Needless to say, he never showed up. Why? Well, he went out and god messed up at the bar with his friend. So much so, he passed out at some random persons house and didnt wake up until noontime. So he slept through the time he was supposed to see her. Now- keep in mind, he made a huge deal out of seeing her and that he would NEVER get messed up and not see her. Kinda makes it hard to think that he is not choosing booze over his family. I'm making assumptions here- based upon my own experience- but I'm thinking, this might be where some of these peoples thoughts are. At least- thats where mine are. I mean- He obviously wasnt thinking about his kid last night. Just my 2 cents. And only mine. Please do not take offense. Sometimes people need to vent.
~melissa
~melissa
I think, in the past, before I started attending Alanon, I became angry, because I could not CONTROL the addict. Pure and simple.
(Although heaven knows, being the Super -powered Codependent, that I was...I sure gave it a good try....)
(Although heaven knows, being the Super -powered Codependent, that I was...I sure gave it a good try....)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 110
being somewhat new here...I hope I can put this correctly.
I am struggling to keep from being sucked into the black hole of a bf's alcoholism. No matter WHAT I might think/ want.. it is what it is. The reality is that as long as he continues to be an alcoholic..I will suffer the results, UNLESS I AM ABLE to walk away, physically and emotionally. If I stayed, and condoned, accepted, "understood"... then he has no motivation or reason to stop.
He may not INTEND the hurt or pain...but the intent becomes secondary to the reality. I can (and have) driven myself nuts, attempting to understand, or analyse the reasons, because I tend to work on what I see as logic. My logic says that if you "love" a person, or are harming yourself..then it is logical that someone would stop doing that, which harms another.
Keep in mind..I am in far better of a place than many spouses here, whose partners have destroyed their family's finances, have physically threatened or harmed others, whose children have no parent, because the addict's entire world is focused on his/ her own need to use, whether it be alcohol or drugs. In a sense, I am lucky to be able to walk away with no hurt further than my own emotions.
You are right, they may be delusional. For most of us, it is NOT POSSIBLE to live in a world of illusions. We have to live with the hard reality. For my xbf.. he somehow seems capable of totally blocking out any reality of having hurt me, or been responsible for conflict around his actions. In HIS MIND... none of it relates to him being drunk.
I can't live with what the actions are.
I am struggling to keep from being sucked into the black hole of a bf's alcoholism. No matter WHAT I might think/ want.. it is what it is. The reality is that as long as he continues to be an alcoholic..I will suffer the results, UNLESS I AM ABLE to walk away, physically and emotionally. If I stayed, and condoned, accepted, "understood"... then he has no motivation or reason to stop.
He may not INTEND the hurt or pain...but the intent becomes secondary to the reality. I can (and have) driven myself nuts, attempting to understand, or analyse the reasons, because I tend to work on what I see as logic. My logic says that if you "love" a person, or are harming yourself..then it is logical that someone would stop doing that, which harms another.
Keep in mind..I am in far better of a place than many spouses here, whose partners have destroyed their family's finances, have physically threatened or harmed others, whose children have no parent, because the addict's entire world is focused on his/ her own need to use, whether it be alcohol or drugs. In a sense, I am lucky to be able to walk away with no hurt further than my own emotions.
You are right, they may be delusional. For most of us, it is NOT POSSIBLE to live in a world of illusions. We have to live with the hard reality. For my xbf.. he somehow seems capable of totally blocking out any reality of having hurt me, or been responsible for conflict around his actions. In HIS MIND... none of it relates to him being drunk.
I can't live with what the actions are.
For me, co-dependence is what you get when you take someone whose life is in chaos, and another person that thinks they have some control to fix that. It's complicated because you can often help with individual situations another person is in, by bailing them out, paying their bills, taking their keys, etc, but in the long run all the "fixing" does is remove their immediate consequences and pave the way for them to continue living like they do.
Fast forward to my daughter's spiral into heroin addiction, I became SUPER CODIE. I did my best to cushion the consequences, bargained with the devil, became expert at tossing a room looking for evidence, reading upside down, scanning her text messages in a heart beat, in those rare instances, she forgot her phone for a minute. I slept with my purse/wallet and car keys under the mattress. One evening I physically tied her to me to prevent her from stealing from me and/or drug seeking. I imposed myself into drug deals and walked into crack houses looking for my daughter.
I was not capable of a thought that was not about my daughter and heroin. Being a good mama I took an active interest in my daughter's hobbies and acquired more knowledge of heroin and other drugs than my daughter ever had. I kept scorcards of the people she knew who were charged with crimes and/or had died. I was at the court house to wittness their sentencing to prison and took pleasure in it.
I was certain I was going to beat my daughter's addiction into submission. I made it all about me. My daughter's addiction woke up the codie beast within me. My self worth had become tied to curing my daughter.
Pass the codie pipe, please.
I thought I was unique . I thought my daughter was unique. And I landed on this forum looking for strategies to control my daughter. And then I discovered, I was not alone. That was the begining of my own healing.
My daughter eventually found her own way. We both remain one lousy decision away from a relapse into hell-o.
think if anyone here "hated" their addict, they wouldn't be here trying to cope with having an addict in their life in the first place. They would walk away from the addict and cut all ties and communication.
The anger may seem unfair or misplaced, but it's really quite normal. Many here have had their lives thrown into chaos because of the behavior of another. We're here learning to cope with loving someone while recognizing we can't control their outcome. We're learning to continue loving them while mitigating the damage their use does to us, mentally, emotionally, physically and financially.
Well said
I also agree with posters who mentioned that many of us here are just learning to feel our own feelings. I've mentioned on another thread that acknowledging anger/being angry is very difficult for me. In learning and practicing this new feeling it's possible that I (and others) swing too far the other way when we communicate about it.
I know that I've been walking around my home for the past 2 weeks with "I hate you" randomly popping into my head. It happens when I see things that relate to AH's son (my bonus son) or when I see things that remind me of plans that we have made. I don't hate him and I know I don't but I guess for me it's a way of acknowledging the anger that I feel about what he has done to our family.
The anger may seem unfair or misplaced, but it's really quite normal. Many here have had their lives thrown into chaos because of the behavior of another. We're here learning to cope with loving someone while recognizing we can't control their outcome. We're learning to continue loving them while mitigating the damage their use does to us, mentally, emotionally, physically and financially.
Well said
I also agree with posters who mentioned that many of us here are just learning to feel our own feelings. I've mentioned on another thread that acknowledging anger/being angry is very difficult for me. In learning and practicing this new feeling it's possible that I (and others) swing too far the other way when we communicate about it.
I know that I've been walking around my home for the past 2 weeks with "I hate you" randomly popping into my head. It happens when I see things that relate to AH's son (my bonus son) or when I see things that remind me of plans that we have made. I don't hate him and I know I don't but I guess for me it's a way of acknowledging the anger that I feel about what he has done to our family.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 267
I also agree with posters who mentioned that many of us here are just learning to feel our own feelings. I've mentioned on another thread that acknowledging anger/being angry is very difficult for me. In learning and practicing this new feeling it's possible that I (and others) swing too far the other way when we communicate about it.
I know that I've been walking around my home for the past 2 weeks with "I hate you" randomly popping into my head. It happens when I see things that relate to AH's son (my bonus son) or when I see things that remind me of plans that we have made. I don't hate him and I know I don't but I guess for me it's a way of acknowledging the anger that I feel about what he has done to our family.
I know that I've been walking around my home for the past 2 weeks with "I hate you" randomly popping into my head. It happens when I see things that relate to AH's son (my bonus son) or when I see things that remind me of plans that we have made. I don't hate him and I know I don't but I guess for me it's a way of acknowledging the anger that I feel about what he has done to our family.
JMO, but I think no matter what anyone feels, whether it's not liking addicts too much atm, to expressing what they are feeling, to addicts being frustrated for not being liked or understood, This is the best and safest place to figure it all out.
I was a day from suicide when I found many of you here today because I didn't know how to stop, to almost 6 years free of those 3 things I stopped.
I wouldn't have gotten to where I was without reading and listening to everyones emotions, feelings, thoughts, and in turn just feeling the love put back out.
Great posts in here.....
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)