settingsun

Hi, so I am new to message boards and to generally talking to people, but not at all new to dealing with addicts among family and friends. My dad's a crack addict, has been my whole life. I spent so much of my childhood covering for him and making excuses. Due to some upheaval in the family I recently found myself feeling responsible for getting him out of a bad situation (unemployment and impending homelessness). The problem is that I'm a student, broke and trying to start on a good career/life path. I don't want to get stuck in the cycle of fixing his life instead of my own. I already have so much resentment about the things that went wrong when I was younger. Also, I still hold out a tiny bit of hope that my dad might take control of his own life - which won't happen if people continue to enable him. I really wish to see him want change. So I have come to the realization that the right thing to do is to let go, and not enable.

Now the dilemma: I am having a philosophical and moral conflict in attempting to reconcile that decision with habitual enabling of other addicts in my life. The other addict very close to me is a mother with young children who she loves dearly. She has been trying to get clean for a long time but has been having a rough time of it and relapses. If she gets caught relapsing though she could loose custody of her kids. Then the kids end up in a foster care situation that is much more volatile and *much* worse for the kids. (Not saying this is the case for all foster care, just that this particular circumstance is tricky and ends up bad for the kids). So when this woman messes up, I often step in to cover up and fix things.

If I believe that enabling an addict is wrong - and that it ultimately harms both addict and enabler - how can I possibly reconcile the exceptions that I make? Where does one draw the line between allowing (even aiding) another person's self destructive behavior to protect others and the tough love that will actually help the addict long term?

I feel quite young, like all this is beyond my maturity level. Besides, I don't do well with moral relativism.

keepinon

Well..for me, when I really accepted that it is in THEIR best interests that I let them feel the full consequences of their addiction, it got easier to stop enabling everyone...WE don't know what incident, consequence, etc. will cause people enough pain that they will want to change thier lives..so I do my best to let things play out as they will, trusting that it will all unfold as it's meant to..have you been to alanon or naranon..I have found sanity and support there

thequest

welcome settingsun. I agree along the lines of keepin on. That the sediment of most here no enabling even if it's a ride to work or 5$ for a burger at Mickey Ds. It's a form of consequence for the addict for squandering resources & living their lives with no consequence.

Kids involved makes it tough but would your enabling lead to permenant solution?

The problem one here has a live in with a kid not his. And yet he's pitches for sympathy like kids are expensive or I had to pay this bill for kid last month etc.

Consequence can force a bottom for some.

Good Luck I don't envy your choices. STAY SANE!

rose

Welcome to SR Settingson,
Glad you found us, though sorry for why you had to. This is a really great place to come and share your ups and downs with your loved ones who are addicted to drugs. There is lots of support here as well as on-line meetings. I agree with the above posts about going to al-anon or nar-anon meetings, they offer so much help and guidence on ways to take the pressure off you and getting you on track to live your own life...happy and guilt free.

You state that you are young, I don't know how young you are but you sure do seem to be very level headed and very knowledgeable, it is just wonderful that you are reaching out for help and information. You deserve to live your own life, not swallowed up in others desease of addiction.

Again Welcome,
Rose

Impurrfect

Welcome to SR, though sorry for what you are going through.

I'm an RA (recovering addict) and recovering codie (codependent...something that was going on WAY before I became an A (addict) and I was involved in relationships with A's).

I can only tell you my experience. Though I was bailed out of jail once, my family allowed me the dignity to find my own bottom and figure a way to get back on my feet. I'm a recovering crack addict, so I understand what you're going through with your dad.

I'm sorry there are children involved in the other situation, but look what having an addict parent has done to you? Though foster care seems to be a bad option, I personally know of kids who have had great foster parents.

My stepmom is a raging codie (her first husband was a violent alcoholic), majorly depressed and has no intention of doing anything about it, other than try to get any pills she can to be numb. Dad has also become a codie, and enables her.

I live with them...thanks to the financial/career mess my own crack addiction resulted in. However, I've learned to let them deal with their consequences. Stepmom used to pass out, on a frequent basis, and I learned to make sure she was breathing (I'm a former nurse), keep an eye on her, but let her lay where she fell. When she whines about this or that, I tell her "you choose to accept this...you have to deal with the consequences".

Had anyone enabled me while I was using, I'm quite sure I wouldn't be coming up on 4 years in recovery. It's hard...at first I wanted to tell them of all I've learned here, tell them what they need to do, but I no longer do that. I live a life of recovery, and some of it has worn off on them. Dad went to his first al-anon meeting last week.

I love them dearly, no doubt. I've also had to get help from dad, financially, but I work 2 jobs and am going to school, so it's not like I'm a slacker. I simply cannot, and will not, get into their drama any longer. It took time for me to get there, but I realized that I kept enabling them, it was only going to get worse, and I just can't deal with that.

When we give someone the dignity of living their life as they choose, and if they find recovery, it will be something to be proud of..."I did this". When someone else is stepping in and trying to help out, they often appreciate it, but also resent it. Especially if you don't do exactly what they want.

YOU are the only person you're responsible for. Al-anon, counseling, or even just coming here and seeing what others have gone through may help you out. I know I wouldn't be where I am, if it weren't for SR.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Kindeyes

Sometimes we can't resolve our philosophical dilemmas immediately.......time does it for us. Although it sounds like the worst thing in the world for this mother to lose her children, it may be the thing that finally gets her to the point of wanting to clean up and stay that way.......which in the long run......would be the best thing for her and for her children.

We (codependents) really don't like to see people suffer because we are basically really really nice people. We often take on the suffering of another because we feel that we are better able to handle the pain and discomfort. Taking the pain on ourselves is often less painful for us than watching someone else hurt. Unfortunately, by doing so, we rob those people of the pain that can result in change. Pain (physical, emotional and psychological) is there for a reason. It motivates us to make it stop. When we remove or lessen the issue causing the pain (consequences) for our loved ones, there is no reason for them to change.

You sound like an exceptionally bright young person. I hope you stick around and let us know how you're doing. There is a lot of wisdom here on SR. Many many people have dealt with every imaginable aspect of alcoholism/addiction. We make mistakes. We try different tacts. We change our behavior. And ultimately, we are all in search of peace and serenity even when the A's in our lives continue on their destructive path.

gentle hugs

Chino

My line in the sand is when life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is compromised by active addiction.

Tough love is for us, not them. It was me finding my spine and being tough enough to stand up for myself, and others who are not able.

Panther

I have to disagree with what some of the other users posted. Foster care CAN be a REALLY bad situation. I am a teacher and have known many foster kids. Although in some situations it is better than the original home, it can get worse.

The best way to see the situation is simply this: the mother in question has an illness. What is the best way to get her in treatment so that she can be the mother she wants to be to her children? Is an intervention needed? If it is, are you willing to do what it takes to get it done?

Doing the right thing is not always easy. In fact, more often than not, the right thing is down right difficult! But there are children involved, and I know they would appreciate someone stepping in to rescue not only their mother, but their family.

Panther

keepinon

We cannot rescue addicts..they have to choose to get help..many of us here have spent the better part of our lives "rescuing " others to their detriment and ours.

coffeedrinker

settingsun,

welcome to sober recovery. what a great decision you've made to look after your own self and stop enabling your father.

i think it's this simple:
you have a boatload of resentments against your dad.
you do not have that same dynamic with this other person, the mom.
you have been conditioned to caretake - it is what you know, and you likely get some feelings of worth from doing so. so it only makes sense that you are drawn to help someone who has addiction issues.
it is great to feel needed....but also dangerous. you will (possibly) give and give and give, and still she may not get sober, she may not be grateful - which is what you want.
then, you will have resentment toward her as well.
patterns repeat til we stop them.

keepinon

Well put Coffedrinker..the dance of codependency..round and round we go

Panther

Actually, there are many professionals in the area of Addiction Intervention who would disagree with you! Addiction is a physical disease that robs the user of the ability to reason. That is why an Intervention is needed to save the person from the progression of the illness which will ultimately lead to death. Do all interventions work? Of course not. But a good 85% of them do! I say that beats waiting to see if an addict kills themselves or someone else before they come around to accepting treatment.

Panther

Trying to get someone help is not enabling - its called 'doing the right thing when you care about someone'. I for one am tired of the psychobable that often passes as rationality in these forums.

Chino

Then offer up something that is helpful to the enabler, the codependent, not the addict. The addict isn't here asking for help.

Enabling is doing for another what they can and should be doing for themselves.

Many codies/enablers new to addiction are completely lost when it comes to helping THEMSELVES, therefore they're not exactly equipped to help the person who is, on the surface, the source of their pain.

That is not psychobabble, that is common sense.

Why don't you share with us your journey with codependency, and how you've overcome it?

Panther

I would never label myself codependent anymore than I would label myself any other term that would disempower or limit me. I am not a label, and I don't know why you're trying to force me into that box. If you have accepted that term for yourself, so be it.

I have been addicted. I know what its like. I also work with addicts at a substance abuse unit where I teach and mentor. I am also in the process of becoming a substance abuse counselor. I have experience on both sides of addiction.

If you read my post you would see I was offering help. She asked for advice about what to do for her friend. I explained that her friend was sick and that if she cared about her, she should try to organize an intervention. This is not enabling. She would not be ALLOWING or HELPING her friend to stay addicted. On the contrary, she would be trying to intervene and get her medical care. This is an acceptable form of action widely recognized - I don't know why we're even debating this.

I agree she should care for herself as well. I never said she shouldn't. My career path is focused on helping addicts - this doesn't mean I forget to shower, or buy groceries. You can still have a life and be happy while at the same time helping others. Is it easy? No. But nothing worth doing is easy.

I have read a lot of posts on here and I think there is a big error in mistaking passivity for action. Effective action is not bad - and it shouldn't be labeled as such. Informed action is not codependent, or enabling or whatever else you want to call it. Its action backed with knowledge and information - isn't that common sense as well?

Chino

You don't seem to have any experience on our side of the street.

An intervention was a valid suggestion and I did not suggest otherwise. It was your comment about how trying to help is not being enabling, and then your obvious disdain for some of the suggestions here, that I'm responding to.

Codependency is not a disorder, it's merely a name for unhealthy behaviors, unhealthy learned coping skills in the absence of healthy ones.

Most people that find themselves posting here have been reacting and responding to their addicted loved ones in unhealthy ways, to the point of the addict becoming #1 in their lives and sometimes to the exclusion of all else.

This forum isn't about the addict, that forum is found above this one on the main menu. This forum is for the people who love them and finding ways to help ourselves, because we've given it all away to the addict, and they're sure not going to help us.

Panther

I know what forum I'm in. And if working with addicts, and having close friends that are addicts doesn't qualify me to be in this forum, then I don't know what does.

I understand where you are coming from. I have read many of the posts - a lot of people coming here for guidance have been trying to "help" their addicted loved ones for years and years, all the while making the situation worse for themselves and those they love. I understand your point. But I think you are missing mine. My point is that helping is not bad. And wanting to help is not bad. It is uneducated attempts and blind attempts that cause problems. I have been just as guilty of doing this as many on here. But I think it is misguided to say that because some attempts at helping are wrong, then ALL attempts are wrong. If this were the case, why would there be professional interventionists? Why are people wasting their time offering intervention services if attempting to help is unhealthy?

And of course you must always care for yourself. Who would disagree with that? But that's not the question that she asked. I understand that many on here have forgotten to care for themselves and have gotten tied up in the addiction. I have had that happen to me and I have seen that happen to people. I agree, people need to be reminded to look after themselves and remember their own happiness. I can tell you are concerned with that, as you should be. But helping others and being happy are not mutually exclusive.

greeteachday

I think sometimes we may read into posts more than what is said...There are probably few here that have a cookie cutter don't touch approach to handling all situations. I also don't think there are many or any who would disagree with your statement.

I am not a personal fan of the phrase "tough love" because I don't think it is about being tough on someone nor about punishing our addicted loved ones. And when i see that word, I think punishment, and that isn't what works fo rme. For someone else, tough love may be an empowering phrase that helps them to move from enabling.

I know i struggled with what was being helpful and what was enabling, until I learned to continue to educate myself, get help for myself, get involved with what recovery was, both for addicts and those who love them, and then ultimately learn to trust myself. It wasn't until I could overcome that need to jump in and rescue because it made me feel less pain rather than because it might be the right thing to do for others, that I could start being more of a help and less of a hindrance to my daughter.

I don't know the answer here, I don't know that there is an answer...it is just about us sharing what we have experienced...I think it is a very good question and I agree with Kindeyes that sometimes what seems like the worse outcome, may be the right outcome. I have realized I am not God (thankfully!) and my way is not "the right" way. That is probably the greatest gift life and recovery has given me...How freeing! I think if I was in Setting sun's situation I might think about how I could help this mom get help rather than cover for her relapse. And maybe the way to help might be an intervention or maybe it is to step away and let it happen...Or something else...I don't know..I have not walked in her shoes. I can only do what allows me to sleep at night.

I do pray for those little ones...it is always so hard when innocent kids who can not take care of themselves are victims of addiction.

Chino

OUR attempts at helping have been wrong.

We reach out and accept help from others when we finally admit we're powerless over our addicted loved one. Up to that point, we've done everything we possibly can and sometimes with horrible consequences for ourselves.

Just like the addict

On the flip side, we're not helpless, same as the addict.

That's what we're learning to do and, just like the addict, we have to put our recovery first. Especially before the addict.

Panther

Chino - I agree with a lot of what you say and I believe you have a lot of wisdom. We may disagree on somethings but I think that disagreement can be a good thing, as it provides different perspectives.

We are all here because we have been affected by addiction. We all come with our different stories and backgrounds. Know that even if I disagree with your take on things, I respect you as an individual and I respect that despite your struggle you are here trying to help others.

My reason for being here is that I have someone very dear to me who is addicted to alcohol. From the reading I have done, I have decided that an intervention is the best course. Is it for everyone? I don't know. But it may be for some, and that is enough reason to give it room for discussion.