vaya

My AS, who just got out of in custody trtmnt 2 weeks ago, and was ordered to outpatient and to stay with me in a drug free environment is struggling to keep it together. He says he wants inpatient and is waiting for a bed. I don't get how it works there.

Anyway, I found some pot in his pocket when I heard some kind of rattling around in it when I moved his sweatshirt. I know he smoked pot in custody (apparently not uncommon there). When he got out he tested positive for cannabis, but he said the outpatient program wasn't too worried about it, since his DOC is heroin.

He's spent almost $300 in the two weeks since he's been out. I had given him about $60 in increments to help with transportation and cigarettes. OUtpatient won't let him work and he says they don't give him bus tokens.
He said he spent the money on eatiing out. He figured he was going into intpatient anyway and didn't think he'd need any money. I did question where the money went and have only given him small amounts at a time to go back and forth to outpatient on the bus. He offered some of his food stamps so I could buy food for the house, for him and for me. Then this morning, when I told him I can't give him that much money, he said that' why he let me use his food stamps, otherwise he could have sold those food stamps. (Which is what he did before to get drugs.)

He's slowing slippping in other ways too. He's not going to meetings as ordered and when he went to drug court yesterday he was told to make up the meetings and report back in a week. When I got home he told me about having to make up meetings. I suggested why not go to one that evening. Turns out girlfriend was on her way over....so guess that was more important.

Also turns out she and he had planned to have girlfriend spend the night and stay around my house the next day until he got done with testing and group. I told him that I would appreciate it if he would let me know when they want to do that and make sure it's ok with me to., especially on a night when I have work the next day. Guess they planned a rendevouz to have some time together. Wouldn't be so bad, but I didn't like the sneakiness of it and want him to be up front with me. Also, WE LIVE IN A ONE ROOM STUDIO, ME, HIM, AND HIS YOUNGER BROTHER, who is away right now. So it's not like they just go to his room and hang out, which wouldn't be as big a deal.

When I told him about that this morning and about the pot he got really anxious and started threatening to use heroin again. i told him not to blame me if he makes that choice and to stop acting like a little kid trying to hurt himself to get at me.

I know he felt cornered and I didnt' want to do that. My fear and anxiety is and was sky high because I see him slipping and I don't see the girlfrient really being supportive of him, but just being a distraction from what he needs to do. she knows he has to make up meetings and take care of business. I don't think he can do that knowing she's waiting for him to come back.

I didn't say anything to offend girlfriend, but I guess she picked up on the vibe or decided not to hang around when they saw I wasn't going to work today. (Had planned to take off to see about another job and had already cleared it.) She got dressed, left everything in a heap, and left with him.

Besides my anxiety about her distracting him, I also feel betrayed and disrespected. I'm not that crazy about her anyway. She's kind of selfish and inconsiderate, as evidenced by her behavior last night and today.

I know she cannot make my son use. ONly he can do that and make that choice for himself. But she can make herself a real distraction for him and make him not take care of going to meetings. I feel like if she really cared about him she would give him the space to go to meetings and encourage him to do so, rather than tell him she's coming over and make him wait around for hours till she gets there.

Anyway, I know I can't interfere that much and try not to. I do feel I have to establish guidelines and boundaries in my home. I know my son is still in an addict mentality and only thinking about himself and being sneaky. I know it will take a long time for that to change, but he still has to know that we need to communicate, be honest, and respect eachother's space.

It also doesn't help that she's a liar. She promises things to him and never comes through. She still has his clothes at her house and keeps saying she's going to bring them over but doesn't. She said she was bringing and had brought him art markers yesterday, but there were no markers. She also said she had bought him and my other son new shoes, but no shoes have ever materialized, nor other mention of them. She said she wanted to take my son shopping last weekend and all they did is look for a pair of shorts for her. She has real issues. I know it bothers my son a lot. He says she forgets.

I know I can't really get between their relationship. Not my place. But I also think my son puts up with her stuff because she put up with his using. I don't want to get in the way of their relationship, but I do feel I have the right to make certain rules about sleep overs and require his honesty. I also don't feel comfortable having her just hang out at my place, while I'm at work, and he's at outpatient, especially without either of them saying anything. It really made me lose more respect for her that she was going to just kind of hang out and stay around, without anyone saying anything. It is my son's responsibility to be honest with me and ask if that's ok though.

Is there anything else I should do? I know my son is mad at me now because he thinks I made her uncomfortable. Am I wrong to feel like I do? I'm not sure how much I'm upset about the situation about her sticking around today and their planning to be together, or just about my son and trying too hard to control circumstances so he won't use.

I really don't know what I'm supposed to do here. He is messing up in little ways that are real warning signs. I want to encourage him to not throw in the towel and use and just reach out for help. He's heading in a downward spin and may wind up using because he doens't know how to get out of the situation he's creating.

I know outpatient is really hard for him. It's hard for me too. I've been understanding, encouraging, giving him some money and praising him for being clean. When I find out he's lying about pot and money and doesn't seem to realize the consequences of his actions, I get scared and mad. I dont' think that makes me co dependent. I do know he has to take responsibility for his actions. However, he's back in my house, per the court's orders, and I need to figure out how to deal with this. I can't just send him out of the house. I do have the right to make policies and boundaries in my home too.

There was the possibility of him staying at a shelter the program uses, where people can wait for a bed, but he really hated it. It's a homeless shelter and a lot of people there use and sell drugs around the area. He even did before. It would still be like outpatient, but he would stay somewhere else at night. I may have to bring that option up if he doesn't stop with the pot and his committment. At least the girlfriend element would be minimized if he stayed there. (Probably another reason he didn't want to.)

I don't want to be his case manager. I've heard nothing from the program about what I should do as his, drug free place to stay, the status of a bed, if they have family support meetings or anything.

All I can do is encourage him to do the right thing, let him know what's ok andnot, and encourage him to seek the help and structure he needs. He's at a real critical point right now. I can't really provide a structured place to stay when I'm at work 3 days a week. I can't make him go to meetings as a condition to staying here. I knowI don't have to tolerate him smoking pot and he will have to learn to budget money better. I don't even make enough money right now to pay rent. I'm looking for other work

Please, any feedback about this will help. I know this is convulted. The girlfried issue isn't really as big as his addict ways coming back to the surface.

Should I call the outpatient to ask about inpatient options? I don't think they;ll talk to me since he's an adult. HELP!!

suki44883

To be totally honest, it doesn't sound to me like he's truly ready to quit. He's playing around with it and he'll do it in a lakadasical way since he has been ordered to, but I don't believe his heart is in it.

vaya

Suki, I believe that may be a possibility. I also feel he doesn't really know how else to behave. He still thinks like an addict, because he hasn't learned how else to think and because he still has such a low opinion of himself. It does seem like he's bucking the tide more than trying to give in to the process and he's trying to tough it out alone, which is the worse thing he can do at this point. The addict in him is still powerful and fighting to win. He's just white knuckling it now. I hope he can reach out for help and see that he can do it, with the support of others and trust in God.

outtolunch

He knows where to buy dope and apparently has the money to do so.

Smoking pot is not recovery.

Sounds like he's going through the motions because the court ordered him to do so.

Nothing you do or not is going to prevent or cause him to use dope. There is nothing his GF can do either.

We are not that powerful. ( Toughest lesson I learned in all of this)

Courts often try and manuver adult kids into their parent's home. You do not have to agree. . You do not have to give him money. You do not have to let the GF have a sleep over. You have a choice in all of this, just as your son does. It's OK to say no.

keepinon

Don't want to sound harsh, but you are resisting surrendering to the recovery process as much as he is...giving an addict cash is enabling..trading food stamps is enabling, allowing drug use in your home while supposedly in recovery is enabling..I hear you say you are not codependant..then why do you continue to do all this?It will stop when you stop.

Chino

My house, my rules.

vaya

Keepinon-I'm not trading food stamps, that's how he thought of it later. I was glad he was contributing to the household in some way. I never thought of it as a trade. I'm not allowing drug use in my home. I only discovered that he had some pot in his pocket this morning and we had a long discussion about it and how it's not ok. As for giving him money, his outpatient doesn't let him work so he has no income. He did have some GR money on his card which he used up, too quickly for my liking. I gave him $28 a couple of times for bus and cigarettes and a few dollars a couple of other times for the bus. He has to take the bus to outpatient and back daily and takes the bus to go to meetings and back. I don't think that's enabling. I do think I gave in too easily about his going through his money too quickly without him having to account for it.

I talked to him when he got back from outpatient and a meeting today about having to make some changes. I told him pot was not ok and that he needs to be completely honest with me. I also told him that I don't have to buy him cigarettes, they're not a necessity and that I don't have to give him bus money. He can borrow my bicycle or walk to outpatient, even if it is 2-3 miles away. I told him I'm willing to help somewhat with the bus for outpatient and meetings and possibly some cigarettes, but that he will have to learn to budget what he gets and when it runs out it'll be his problem. How much I give him will depend also on his being honest and not finding any drugs in the house and if he's doing what he's supposed to do in outpatient. I was considering giving him $20-$25 a week, and possibly in daily increments if he can't learn to budget it. That money would be for travel to and from outpatient ($2) and to and from meetings($2) daily, along with money for 2 packs of cigarettes a week and he would have to learn to stretch them out. Outpatient doesn't provide transportation and I don't have a car. He's trying to hook up with his sober friends to get to and from meetings with them. He's also going to see if outpatient will let him apply for GR again so he'll have money for transportation and cigarettes and won't have to ask me. I told him he has to learn how to deal with money and budget it and respect the fact that we don't have a lot of money now. Outpatient, nor court, has given me any guidelines, information, or anything about how to handle things. I'm just glad he's not shooting heroin and hope he's telling the truth about not using the pot. I told him that he obviously needs more structure. The first two weeks we were playing it by ear and he was thinking he'd get into residenial treatment. I was delighted he hasn't shot dope and wants to stay off of it that I felt it was ok to help with transportation and cigarettes. I realize now he still thinks like an addict and is irresponsible with money. He has to learn many new ways of being and acting, besides not doing drugs and it'll take time.

sorry you're one of the hard-nosed types, but you are entitled to your opinion, which is all it is, even if based on your experience. Just like we can't force an addict to stop using, we can't tell someone else what they can't do, only suggest what has and hasn't worked. this is a new scenario for me with him now that he's in this program and I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and not trying to make myself nuts over monitoring everything he does, so he can learn to take responsibility for his actions. I can't send him out in the street, since he's court ordered here and can't do anything about changing that now. I feel he should know that things will be more structrured and to know what I expect and am willing to give and try to work within that, while keeping off drugs. He deserves the right to show me he can do that and keep working his program. He does get drug tested almost daily, and as far as I know he's been testing clean. I refuse to micromanage what he does, but am letting him know what's ok and not ok. I know, he knows, that I still reserve the 'power' or right to let his outpatient program know if I feel he needs to be somewhere else, other than here. If they don't have a bed yet, he can go to the shelter or back into custody to wait for one.

Yeah, I know what addicts do and maybe this one has been skirting around a bit. the program is very loose, which can be good, so he can learn how to get off drugs in the real world, where the temptations are all around, as opposed to inside a sheltered, residential program. If he can kick this way and try to work with the program he may be able to finally get over it. Going 2 and half months without using heroin, with 2 of those weeks in outpatient, basically on his own, I think is making good progress. Remember, Progress, Not Perfection.

hello-kitty

It sounds like you have a lot on your plate trying to "help" your son recover. There is a fine line between "helping" and "enabling", as you know :-) Enabling is doing for others what they should be doing for themselves.

It doesn't sound like you think your son is capable of taking care of himself right now because of his outpatient treatment. It sounds like you think he's making progress and your not expecting perfection. It sounds like you feel he is exactly where he should be at this moment. And it doesn't sound like you can do much more for him right now, short of working his recovery yourself.

So then, maybe it's time to focus on your own life? Are you satisfied with the way your life is going right now? If not do you have a plan to get to where you want to be? We have the power to make sure our happiness does not depend on the behavior of a drug addict by working our own program of recovery.

No matter what choice your son makes in the future, you can still have a fulfilling, purposeful, comfortable existence.

Chino

vaya, I know you already told him drugs in your home were not acceptable. Yet, he violated that boundary with pot. If you're not prepared right now to enforce that boundary with a consequence, please know that it will likely be ignored again.

keepinon

sounds like you've got it all under control!

Justfor1

Vaya, it does not sound like you are enabling. The amount of money you are giving him is not enough to support a heroin habit. Heroin is very expensive. You are correct that when a person is in jail/prison drug use is still everywhere. It is not a safe or good place to be. The fact that is is going to outpatient treatment & considering inpatient is a good sign. He is taking a step (a perhaps baby step) in the right direction.

vaya

First, to Hello-Kitty. You said "It doesn't sound like you think your son is capable of taking care of himself right now because of his outpatient treatment. It sounds like you think he's making progress and your not expecting perfection. It sounds like you feel he is exactly where he should be at this moment."

I didn't say he isn't capable of taking care of himself because of his outpatient treatment. I said they won't permit him to work and he doesn't have any money. He will ask them if he can apply for GR. I also told him where to get free bus tokens, but they're limited and you have to qualify and it's only 1 day a month. Meanwhile I do provide him with bus money to get to and from outpatient and meetings.

I'm not saying he is where he should be at this moment. He should be in inpatient, but there's no beds now and he was ordered by the court to outpatient. I said that if he could stay off drugs in outpatient, without inpatient, that would be an accomplishment because it's harder to fight the temptations that are everywhere in outpatient.

Yes he is making progress. He hasn't shot heroin for 2 and a half months. For him that is progress. No smoking pot in custody wasn't right. I had not control over that.

I agree he should not have pot or smoke it and I made that clear. What kind of consequence do you give a 23 year old? I already cut off his funds and limited it to only enough bus fare to get to the meeting he just left for in the pouring rain. I told him he would have much less to work with now and would have to budget his money. He said he would be willing to walk home from outpatient sometimes, weather permitting.

He's making up his meetings that he should have gone to during the last 2 weeks. He went to 2 meetings today on his own, rather than waiting to get a ride from a friend. He stayed home all afternoon since he got back from outpatient and the meeting and just hung out. We talked. He rested. he went on the computer. Then he went to the meeting.

He is making progress. For those of you who have children who are heroin addicts perhaps you can understand my point of view. He is doing better. He is using his words and not just wanting to get f*&>d up on dope when he gets upset. He is starting to take responsibility for what happened and not just blaming it all on other things and circumstances.

AA even says progress not perfection. Yes he messed up not going to meetings and having the pot. Now he's working on correcting that. He does get to start over and not have it held against him.

To others in general: I know addicts are slippery, coniving, manipulating, selfish, etc, especially when they're using. They have issues. But, they are also good people inside, hiding behind that addict. I see that person starting to emerge, but there is still work to be done. He is very new in sobriety right now. he has to learn he can't fool the system and has to commit if he wants to have a life again free from the chains of heroin. If he did use pot they would know when they test him at outpatient. they are very rigorous about their testing and report everything back to the courts. i have to let them do their job and just let him know what's ok and what's not.

I feel I have to give him the dignity to recover. I will and do question him when things don't follow the plan, but he has to learn that if he messes up he will have to contend with the court and lose his freedom. I'm trying to let the natural consequences progress and not try to control anything. I'm just trying to set the standards and boundaries in my home.

Some of you make it seem like the fact that I bring up my concerns and ask for feedback means I'm not thinking of myself enough. Actually, I am thinking of myself and I don't want to have the insanity of drugs in my home, nor to have to micromanage his recovery, which is why I reached out. this is a little different ground then when he was shooting dope and then had to leave. The issues are similar/same, but now he does have a program and counselors he has to answer to and a routine they mandate he follows, which is a load off of me. I'm just trying to figure out how to not stand in the way of his consequences of his actions, but still let him know the boundaries here, while encouraging him to do what he needs to do. what's wrong with that?

Chino

vaya, if there's no consequence then it's not a boundary.

vaya

I hear what you're saying Chino. What sort of consequence do you suggest?
I've already cut back money for bus and cigarettes and let him know I'll continue to do so, so he only has just enough for the bus and maybe cigarettes twice a week. We've already had the discussion this morning. Should I not let his girlfriend come over tomorrow? She already left this morning because he didn't ask me first. At best, I can withhold or restrict cigarettes and bus fare, seeing his girlfriend, and the use of the computer. We live in a studio apt so I can't limit TV if I want to see it? I can't really ground him. We have no car, so I can't withhold that. He doesn't get other goodies. We don't have that much food to eat, and I don't think it's right to withhold that either. Other than that, I can let him know I will tell his outpatient program if it happens again and then he can sit in prison for smoking pot, if that's what the judge orders.\
FRANKLY, I'm really pissed that the program hasn't at least contacted me to see who I am or where he lives.

keepinon

[QUOTE=Justfor1;2878154]. Heroin is very expensive. You are correct that when a person is in jail/prison drug use is still everywhere.


Actually heroin is VERY cheap..can get a dose for 10 bucks...

Chino

Sounds like a great idea to me

I understand the transition your son is in, my RAD was there too. No longer using her DOC (IV dilaudid) but not ready to give up getting high just yet. I was so afraid of upsetting the apple cart, it seemed like such a delicate balance.

When I finally got sick and tired of my RAD stomping on my boundaries, I asked her to leave and it was a "don't call me, I'll call you" kind of thing. I waited until I was no longer mad at her and I both. Mad at myself for allowing her to disrespect me, and mad at her for doing what I had been allowing. I have no idea where she was during that time and I didn't ask. Strangely enough, she did not start using her DOC again and she's now been clean for over a year.

The program is there for him, not you. You are an address and that's about it. Same thing for me when my daughter was on house arrest. They didn't ask me, she said she could stay here, and I didn't call the court to say no. I was not named her guardian and I'm assuming you've not been named his guardian either. They are not going to call you.

If you don't want his GF there, then don't allow it. I used to leave it up to my RAD to tell her friends what was or not acceptable, if they could stay, etc, but who was I kidding? I was allowing an addict to rule my home that way. I finally started telling her friends yes or no, because they were in my home and it was my job.

This is probably going to sound rough, and I might have said it before in one of your threads, but this is what the drug counselor told us parents during family week at her rehab:

If you can't say no then you have no business dating, getting married, or having children.

Every healthy relationship will require healthy boundaries.

I'm not trying to push you towards doing anything you're not ready for, unwilling or unable to do. I only hope these things I've said are food for thought. They were an eye opener for me when I was in your shoes not that long ago.

Please take care vaya. It seems you might be in a transition period, too.

PS: Dilaudid is more expensive than heroin and my daughter used to get D's for $13.

Justfor1

Actually heroin is VERY cheap..can get a dose for 10 bucks...[/QUOTE]

One dose or bag of heroin is frequently only 10 bucks. However, a persons (even a non-addict on pain meds in a hospital) tolerance level grows fast. Within a year a heroin addict can be spending $100 per day. Giving a few bucks to a addict here and there is not going to really contribute to a $700- $1000 a week habit.

vaya

Thanks all, again for your feedback. If he was spending money on dope I would know it. It's hard for a smack freak to hide when their high, you know?? No signs of using, ie barfing in the toliet from gettin back on the stuff, no extended periods in the bathroom, no nodding, and He's eating food!!!!, even gaining weight, and not just sweets!! Trust me, I know he's not using heroin. I've seen him go through the progression of just getting back on it again and thsn trying to kick it. I'd rather not check his arms.

If outpatient isn't detecting anything, then what am I to do, other than let him know it's not ok to have weed or use it. He even threw away his tranq meds he got in the psych ER when he went in to detox Said he didn't want to get caught up with pills or getting addicted to them so he trhrew them away.

litehorse

vaya - i know you are in a very frustrating situation - i really don't have anything to add in the way of advice - i haven't been an addict myself - i've only tried to deal with my son who is an addict - my son is in prison right now and he has said repeatedly that it has been a blessings thus far - my prayers go out for you and your son as you navigate this very difficult passage -

liesagain

Vaya

Im sorry you are dealing with this and Im sorry you feel like people here are judging you....

I remember feeling angry and annoyed by some of the replies I got, but the thing I learned after a while is ---if it upset me, and I felt I needed to defend myself or my husband--- then there was an issue. It doesnt really hurt or upset me unless there is truth in whats being said.

I found for me that my first post would be truthful and honest and the replies I would get were truthful and honest but I couldnt see that ----
once I felt attacked or felt someone was saying I wasnt ok, or I was doing it wrong----I would back peddle, I would find myself saying its NOT that bad, or I would begin to make excuses for him.

The thing is, it wasnt about HIM it was about me. I didnt like the feeling that I was somehow wrong in "caring" about my husband.

Over time, I have learn for me that my ways of caring about him were not helpiong either of us..but it has and still does take time. I learn something new everyday and it really is about progress not perfection.

I cant give you advice or tell you whats best for you or your son ----noone can but I can tell you that sticking around here on SR --even when I felt like everyone here was wrong.....was one of the best things I could have done not only for me but for my family.

Over time i was albe to finally see and get what others here were trying to tell me.

Stick around and good luck