Would it be okay?

Old 02-01-2011, 02:36 AM
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Would it be okay?

If there were not drugs involved? Would their behavior be okay if they didn't take drugs? Would we stick around?

Would the hiding, separate life, lies, secrets...etc. be okay if they were straight?

Substance abuse is not our fight to win, but theirs.


It is totally separate from us.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:53 AM
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If a stranger did to us some of the things that are loved ones do b/c of addiction, we would be calling the police, standing up for ourselves, and outraged in a thousand ways.

But b/c it is someone special, we make exceptions. I had to learn not to do that. It was and is hard.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:01 AM
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What a healthy perspective!!

I know that I tended to blame the drugs, but when my son was clean, although he was much improved, he still was quite dysfunctional in his behaviour.

Thank you for the clarity reminder, Abundance.

Hugs
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:22 AM
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Absolutely Ann. We blame the drugs because it is one excuse for us codies to make. We want to believe it's the drugs/alcohol even when there is underlying issues. I learned that the hard way but my "recovery" being a codie is a success story. I removed myself from the excuses (and the situation) and over one year later am now allowing myself to have a happy life.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:41 AM
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I think that is where my biggest struggle lies because when he was clean there were no lies there were no secrets and life really was good with us.

It’s when omission started to happen that I knew a relapse was coming.

The last few years of our relationship were filled with more relapses then recovery and I thank this site and al-anon for helping me build the courage and strength to leave.

My leaving is fairly new and still raw, I have my ups and downs, seems lately more downs but I am doing my best to work through all these emotions.

I know that if he hadn’t had years of recovery under his belt when we first met I would have run the other way. It was HIS courage and strength that attracted me to him in the first place but in the end his addiction took him to his knees and I had no respect for the quivering coward he became.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:17 PM
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Good post!! Hmmm food for thought!
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:00 PM
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At what point did it become okay?
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:36 AM
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Good post. From some of the sharings from recovering addicts, I get the impression that those bad behaviors you mention are still there in recovery because they have become habits.

So what I have decided from that is that my house is not a place for anybody to live while they are in early recovery. That's why I think a sober living environment where there is accountability is the best option for a person in early recovery. Habits take a while to break - and I think for the recovering addict it just cannot happen in isolation.

Just my thoughts - take what you like and leave the rest.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:29 PM
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I ask myself the same thing whenever I miss him or what we had. I ask would it be ok he lied, cheated,stole, decieved, walked out on me and abandoned our child. Absolutley not! Although I do blame his behavior sometimes on the drugs. We had a great relationship before and he was a compassionate and kind person. I believe sometimes he manipulates the situation and makes the drugs the excuse for his unacceptable behaivor and so do I. But I do acknowledge he has to take accountability for his actions. That's my struggle everyday. I think he wouldn't be doing this if he was sober or he wouldn't *do this before drugs were in the picture. I think that's what keeps me holding on. The hope he will be "better" one day and it will fix everything. But what if I had met someone just like him now knowing how he is or what he has done I would run the other way. I'm slowly beginning to realize his behaivor is unacceptable addict or not
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Old 05-12-2011, 04:22 PM
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It's NOT okay nor was it ever OKAY!!!!!

Its called your "Personal Bill of Rights". This concept is drawn on the idea that we all have rights as human beings and sometimes we either forget or we don't realize that we have them because we weren't taught them as children growing up. If we can not only realize these rights but also learn to exercise them than we can build a more assertive attitude which means we respect ourselves enough to be conscious of our basic human rights. Here is the list:

I have the right to ask for what I want.
I have the right to say no to requests or demands I can't meet.
I have the right to express all of my feelings, positive or negative.
I have the right to change my mind.
I have the right to make mistakes and not have to be perfect.
I have the right to follow my own standards and standards.
I have the right to say no to anything when I feel I am not ready, it is unsafe, or it violates my values.
I have the right to determine my own priorities.
I have the right not to be responsible for others' behavior, actions, feelings, or problems.
I have the right to expect honesty from others.
I have the right to be angry at someone I love.
I have the right to be uniquely myself.
I have the right to feel scared and say "I'm scared."
I have the right to say "I don't know."
I have the right not to give excuses or reasons for my behavior.
I have the right to make decisions based on my feelings.
I have the right to my own needs for personal space and time.
I have the right to be playful and frivolous.
I have the right to be healthier than those around me.
I have the right to be in a non abusive environment.
I have the right to make friends and be comfortable around people.
I have the right to change and grow.
I have the right to have my needs and wants respected by others.
I have the right to be treated with dignity and respect.
I have the right to be happy.

I have the above on my fridge.

(If you read this everyday at least once... and you start believing in those words for yourself - it WILL make you stronger)
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Old 05-12-2011, 04:34 PM
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Abundance,

Thank you for posting the "Personal Bill of Rights". Love it! Love it! Love it!

I am printing it and putting it on my fridge also.

Many times, I forget my rights. And, I allow guilt to "eat me up."

What a liberating message!
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:29 AM
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I don't know, maybe completely off topic, but it's what came to my mind as I was reading.

My son's drug addiction and my dealing with him landed me in NarAnon and AlAnon.

My past and present way of thinking, feeling, behaving, etc. leads me to believe I need to work on my own recovery. I need to retrain, learn, understand new ways to respond to life going forward.

Like Ann mentioned, even after my son has had some clean time, there are still issues. He doesn't know how to function in the "adult" world. But I also see issues with this in my daughter (no addiction problems) as well. Did I not raise them to be responsible, to grow up, to function??? I did the best I could. They went to school and probably should have been learning some life skills there and amongst their peers . . .

New quote I've discovered:
We did then what we knew how to do. When we knew better, we did better.
-Maya Angelou
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:54 PM
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We ALLOW it to become acceptable because when we are caught up in the grips of the codependent/addiction cycle we slowly start lowering our values/expectations/self esteem/ethics/morals/boundaries/beliefs (pick one, some, or all) trying to seek balance. We keep readjusting our "normal". It's adjusting our psychological homeostasis as a response to or to compensate for external changes.



Readjusting our normal... Therapist and I were just talking about this yesterday. My peers and family are AMAZED that I tolerated what I did. IRL I don't take crap from people. I sure as he(( did from xah. I myself am amazed. I kept lowering my boundries because getting divorced was 'wrong'. i couldn't have been this wrong about someone could I? I wasn't ready to face that either.

Great thread Abs. I've been with my xah while an addict and while sober. Sober was waaay better, but I deserve more as do my kids. Even sober, it was all about him and what HE wanted.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:52 PM
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Oh you mean you aren't supposed to be treated like cr&p by those you love?

It is never ok.

Why do we allow it?
Because we don't value ourselves enough to know that we deserve to be treated better.

Because we think we have all the love in the world and that will make up for their shortcomings.

Because we hate to accept that potentially wonderful people can be so thoughtless.

I also use the addiction, recovery excuse for his jerkish behavior. Maybe he IS just a jerk. And should be treated as such. I try to but then I feel guilty. It makes no sense, why I would feel badly for respecting myself and expecting it from someone else.

I stop and think how wonderfully I treat him and how much love I give and show and fail to remember that I deserve as much.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:57 AM
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Thank you Abundance. I needed that today.
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