sunshine321

I am in a similar situation with my younger brother. He is an alcoholic and we are 11 years apart. I helped raise him from a young age. I love him almost as one of my own. I have learned that I need to step away in order for him to find his own bottom. I don't know what that is for him, I don't know when that will be or if it will ever happen. Unfortunately, my mother and brother have an extremely co-dependent relationship and my mother helps to aid him in his inability to become a responsible adult every step of the way. She is essentially helping him to remain dependent on her. If you would ask her, she would tell you that she "has" to do the things she does. She will also complain how my brother is killing her and wearing her down and about all the problems he causes her because she refuses to let him face the consequences of his actions. He also has neurological problems that I know she feels guilty for even though none of it was her fault. I have given her literature for Al-Anon. I let her know I attend. That is all I can do.

Bottom line is this. My mother is not helping, she is enabling big time. He is 31 years old now and this has been going on since he was a teenager. Things only get worse, not better. He has two DWIs. Here is an saying in Al-Anon that can be helpful: Nothing changes if nothing changes.

For me, I needed to come to this program to allow me to detach with love. I speak with my brother all the time. I love him. I hang out with him. But I will not help him. I will not give him rides. I will not give him money. I will not help him out of any situation, unless of course he was dying or was inquiring for help with recovery. I have made my boundaries very clear. He loves and respects me and knows I am there for him. In fact, he calls me his best friend.

I understand being skeptical about something if you don't know much about it. However, to have your mind made up about it before you've even tried it, speaks "fear" to me. Fear is a very strong emotion. But courage is feeling the fear and doing it anyway. Saying that you don't want to attend a F2F meeting because you have a high profile job is an excuse. It is an anonymous program. Celebrities attend AA. I've found the best thing I did for myself was being honest with myself first. Denial is a very strong feeling. Justification is a very strong feeling. However, neither have ever done me any good.

If you want proof it's in the thousands of people that attend meetings and tell their stories of experience, strength and hope. You'd have to attend meetings to hear that in person. And seeing is believing. This program works if you want it.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

Jen

anaserene

Thanks Jen. Your comments make me want to set boundaries and communicate this to him. I will try to do so soon.

Regarding F2F. I actually have personal knowledge of a local case where someone in AA (AA1) gossiped about another person in AA (AA2), and the gossip got around to the employer of AA2. AA2 was fired because of the gossip.

Yes, it's supposedly anonymous, but I know how the real world works.

Chino

Just this morning, my 23 year old recovering addict daughter and I had a conversation about compassion vs crippling. Hey I just remembered today she's one year clean!

You mentioned the 18 years of age suggestion, and I'll share how it was explained to me at my daughter's rehab -- it's a legal thing. If our laws said 25 was legal age, that's what the recovery community would advise.

It wasn't about cutting them off; it was requiring them to own their status as the legal adults our laws say they are. It was about us not treating them like children, and accepting they have the legal right to live the way they choose. They get to enjoy the rewards and/or suffer the consequences, same as the rest of us.

We can no longer parent our legal age active or recovering loved ones. To do so is to claim partial responsibility for the management of their addiction and recovery. That is something they have to own 100% for them to survive the disease. If we take ownership of their disease, we cripple them and ourselves.

I assist my daughter's recovery, I no longer enable her addiction. She owns her recovery 100% and she knows she has to do the work, I cannot do it for her. She knows she has to own all her choices like everyone does. Recovery is a choice. She can't blame others or make excuses for any of her choices or she'll relapse. Her livelihood hinges on her successful management of her disease. She is learning to face life on it's terms like all of us.

anaserene

What do you mean by "it's a legal thing?" Are you aware that parents have been held liable to pay for not only college tuition but even graduate school tuition for their children? I do not have the case name in front of me, but it was one among many I studied at law school.

wicked

I am sure I have this wrong, but if anyone, including parents sign a promise to pay a school loan back, then yes, you have to pay.

Are you saying if my daughter goes to school, gets loans, and signs her own notes, she can make me responsible?
If that is true, I would like to know how to protect myself.

anaserene, I wonder what has been working for you?
my daughter understands that i can support her emotionally, but financially, i cannot.
she is aware that within the next year, i will be leaving here for a more temperate climate.
she now knows that my life does not revolve around her and her dramas, my life revolves around me and what makes me serene.
it is the only way to live.
my daughter is eighteen.
she is doing great. working as many hours as she can, and she is buying her own car this weekend. starting school in may. i am glad i know her.

Beth

hello-kitty

What's that old adage? If you keep doing what you're doing, you will keep getting what you've got.

Sounds like you are one smart cookie anaserene. I'm sure you'll figure out what to do about your situation soon enough. Afterall, it takes what it takes for both the addict and the family of the addict.

I wonder... was that graduate student a drug addict? Did you find your brother a job yet?

anaserene

Hi Beth,

Yes and no to your question. The bank giving a loan to your daughter could not sue you to enforce the contract agreement between it and your daughter, but your daughter could sue you for support. I would have to dig out my notes to give more information than that.

I'm not sure what works for me. I'm still trying to figure it out.

It sounds like things are going well for you. That's fantastic

anaserene

The graduate student was probably not a drug addict. It's funny, in NYC in the mid-90s, it was fairly common for little vials of cocaine to be lying around on people's desks at work at investment banks and tech companies. I don't know why I just thought of that. I used to be into drugs myself, but I've been completely clean and sober for the past ten years.

No, I didn't find him a job. I just sent him a couple of URLs and wished him luck.

Chino

Exactly what I said

I'm not talking finances or contracts on our end.

My daughter is a legal adult and I treat her like one. She is no longer my ward.

hello-kitty

Wonder if that had anything to do with the collapse of wallstreet and the investment banking system. Hmmmm... it's all starting to make sense now.

Does what wallstreet did in the 90s have any relevance on your situation right now?

givemetennis

What does BPR stand for?

anaserene

I was referring to the mid-90s tech boom. No collapse, under Clinton, it was a very good life. I think it came to mind because this country has an insatiable appetite for drugs, whether legal or not. This society is in denial about how sick it is.

I have noticed that my brother, despite his penchant for cocaine itself, is very tuned into what the current popular trends are. One of those current trends is the abuse of pharmaceuticals, ala Lindsay Lohan.

BPR stands for my brother's name.

outtolunch

The world has an insatiable need for drugs.

anaserene

Every day it's something else, it seems.

Yesterday morning, I called my brother back after seeing that he tried to reach me twice. He needed our dad's credit card number to order his textbooks. This is the third time in the past two weeks he has attempted to get back into his studies by finally buying his books for his classes that began this Monday. He talked about his problems with his now ex-girlfriend and I advised him to block it out and to move on. From his tone, I could tell he was upset and I was concerned but I tried to be encouraging and positive with him.

I checked his online student account this morning to see if he actually did take care of his school business yesterday and he did not. He has not logged in since Wednesday and has not been doing much at all with his classes, from what I can tell. This worries me, but he still has some time to catch up.

On a positive note, I see that he tried to call me today but I had had my phone unplugged. Rather than call him back as I normally would, I didn't. That's a very big step for me. Of course, my mind races through all the scenarios for why he is calling. I'm trying to stop worrying, so I came here to post and get it off my chest. I'm going to try to get back to what I was doing before he called.

outtolunch

Generally speaking, a parent is under no obligation to pay for their child's college expenses, unless they agree to do so, in writing. There are some cases where circumstance and state combined with broad language within a divorce decree to compel a parent to repay student loan obligations. Perhaps this is what the OP is referring to.

outtolunch

Adderall abuse is rampant in higher education, so much so, that those who choose to not use the drug tend to perceive they are at a competitive disadvantage.

outtolunch

Sounds like he has a serious addiction monkey on his back and education is not a priority for him, right now. Yet, someone paid for a trip to Rome, education, living expenses and he's got big sis driving 11 hours to rescue him.

Assuming he is competent to make his own decisions, somewhere along the way, he has to take ownership of his life and addiction. Can the family consider giving him the gift of dignity to decide what's next?

Has anyone considered withdrawing him from classes while there is still time for a refund? Perhaps that money could be better spent right now or later, to give him the opportunity for inpatient treatment.

anaserene

No. This is not what I was referring to. It varies from state to state, but it is simply not true that "a parent is under no obligation for pay for their child's college expenses...." Yes, generally speaking, parents BELIEVE that they are off the hook for necessaries (legal term for education, food, shelter, etc. expenses) as soon as their child turns 18. However, depending on the state, parental liability continues past the age of majority and, in some cases, for the child's entire life, e.g. when the child is disabled.

Take Iowa, for example: At common law a parent's obligation to support his or her child ends when the latter becomes of age, unless the child is physically or mentally unable to care for itself. Davis v. Davis, 246 Iowa 262, 266, 67 N.W.2d 566, 568 (1954); Addy v. Addy, 240 Iowa 255, 258, 36 N.W.2d 352, 354 (1949); Blachley v. Laba, 63 Iowa 22, 23-24, 18 N.W. 658, 658 (1884).

anaserene

Hi Outtolunch, Thanks for the question. Yes, I have considered that, for sure. Last day to withdraw is Feb 8th. I'm going to suggest it to my dad as an option as soon as I get a chance to speak with him. He had a chance when in the hospital to put my brother into a 28 day rehab but thought that will his last semester of his degree program and the end of his lease occurring in July, that an outpatient program would work. I think he also figured my brother needed to make his own decisions about what he was going to do.

outtolunch

This does not obligate the parent to pay for child's education/student loans.