cessy68

Shortest version/update possible:
Had made a determination to detatch w/ loving-kindness. Abf would remain here- with my simple boundries in place which are as follows:
Pay his portion of bills.
Be supportive of me (emotionally, financially, chores etc.)
No pills used around me, not to be 'high' in front of me.
Being a 'relativly normal' part of everday life etc.

My promise to myself:
Stick to boundries
No detective work
no controlling behavior (his life is his journey- not mine to dictate, fix etc).
no snooping - or looking for issues.
etc.

You all get the jist.
According to my therapist- this is healthy detatchment from my addicted loved one.

For a while, I believed he had actually 'kicked' the habit.
And then-- well my suspicions grew..... it was very hard not to question, or concern myself with it. I'd tell myself, "Cess- if he's not breaking the boundries, let him live his life-- when it starts affecting yours- act accordingly".

Heres the problem:
I KNOW now that he's back to the pills. I unfortunately just confronted him- and his response was the usual, "I just did one, bla bla bla" (all of this is simply for your information- as I know full-well It's just an episode of QUACK QUACK QUACK".

SO- what do I do? I don't know how this flippin detatchment is supposed to work. Is detatchment PRETENDING that it's not happeneing? Is detatchment kicking him out? Is it my place to demand that he stops or i'll end the relationship? I just don't get it. I simply don't.

I suppose a question some of you may ask of me- is how is his addiction affecting ME? Well it's simple. I just don't agree w/ it- and it causes me to feel that lying is acceptable for him (which goes hand and hand with addiction). Lying is not something I want in my life.

I'm confused.

Can anyone give any solid objective advice or considerations on this subject?
Warmest regards,
Cess

suki44883

Had made a determination to detatch w/ loving-kindness. Abf would remain here- with my simple boundries in place which are as follows:
Pay his portion of bills.
Be supportive of me (emotionally, financially, chores etc.)
No pills used around me, not to be 'high' in front of me.
Being a 'relativly normal' part of everday life etc.

These are not boundaries for you, these are rules for him.

A boundary would be...I will not be in a relationship with someone who:
does not pay their portion of the bills
Is not supportive of me (emotionally, financially, chores etc.)
Uses drugs around me, or is 'high' in front of me.

YOU decide what you will and will not tolerate, knowing that he is who he is. You don't give him rules, you protect yourself with boundaries.

cessy68

ok. Not to be dumb here... (thank you by the way for responding) but I need more clarification.

I never told him... *stomp stomp* "you must pay your portion of the bills... or you must support me emotionally". These were standards I set for myself- boundries if you would.
The only one i ever verbalized was the one about him not being high around me.... (i think that one does need to be verbalized). I am dealing with a pill addict....


To not discuss these types of things (seems to me) as pretending they don't exist. Furthermore... in 'normal' marriage counseling they teach you that your partner is not a mind-reader-- we must verbalize our expectaions of each other and the relationship...

could you please expand on this (you or anyone else?)
thank you soooo very much.
Cess

Dignity

Cess~~You've got a great thread going here cause I'm a little confused with boundaries also. My son had stayed drug free for a year and during one great conversation I had with him I told him if he ever went back to drugs I would cut off communication with him~~and I have. Boundries are for us..should we not talk about them with our addicts?? It has to be so hard when its a spouse.......either way its so difficult.

cessy68

So- an example is as follows:
Me: I don't wish to be in a relationship w/ someone who is activly using drugs, and therefore, I think that we should move forward going our seperate ways.


I'm assuming that my statement above is a solid healthy boundary.

Please entertain this for me so I can usnderstand:

If I make a statement like that- this IS what I'll get in return,

Him: What? I'm not... bla bla bla. You are just going to walk away?? bla bla bla.

And where do I go from here that DOES NOT lead back into the same 'rule' setting, or 'control'. (because instictually my response to that is- "when you are clean and sober let me know and we can revisit this")-- which (in the past leads him to eventually talk his b.s. into staying, or he leaves, gets sober, and then we are back at this dance AGAIN).

I want to be VERY VERY smart about how I handle things this time around. I'm too exhausted to do anything half-wittingly and need all the guidence I can get.

I allow myself to get sucked in -- I wish to take all precautions against it this time.

Thank you,
Cess

Dignity

Cess, Thats what I told me son. As long as your doing drugs I will have no contact with you......he doesn't live with us. In your situation I am eager to hear what the others have to say about what you should be doing...Man this is hard and I sure wish we all lived a little closer. I need a support group that can be ftf...alanon is Ok but I want more indivigual (sp))))) talking going on. Wish I could sit here all night but have a busy day tomorrow. My heart is with you girl.....

suki44883

The most important thing about boundaries (in my opinion) is that you have to know what you will and will not tolerate. You have to decide how much importance to place on the boundary. What is a deal-breaker for you?

Examples of boundaries:

If he shows up drunk or high, I'll send him away.
If he calls drunk or high, I will immediately end the conversation.
If he gets violent, the relationship is over.

You have to decide what the consequences will be if he disregards your boundary. It doesn't always mean you'll end the relationship. You place the importance on each boundary. Some things will warrant hanging up the phone, ending the date, refusing to go out that night, etc. Some of the more important boundaries might very well be deal-breakers for you regarding the relationship.

Boundaries aren't rules for him, nor are they threats. They are the boundaries you construct around the relationship.

Callie

Cess, you've been around long enough to know that this isn't about boundaries for you. He's a drug addict. He's using, in front of your very eyes. He has been. Nothing's changed. It's not about what HE is going to do. It's about what YOU are going to do! We can put on this front as codies that we'll do xyz IF abc happens. Fact is the matter most of us won't. You won't.

Just as you, I tried the 'roommate part' He pays this or that and we're good. Then it escalated to the 'i just need this paid off' the I'll leave. Then it was I need xyz saved for my future then I'll leave.

Bottom line is I'm glad that I did the above, but it was just stalling on my part. Cess, you can buckle down all you want. You can turn the other cheek all you want. But he's a drug addict. That's not going to change. You've given it how many years? It's up to YOU to change it because he's not gonna. YOU know that.

Callie

:>

newnormal4me

I tried to continue living with my husband despite his terrible ways...none of which I appreciated, respected, or WANTED in my life. I tried healthy detachment, it didn't work for me. I always found myself sucked into his drama with no recourse. I never was good at holding to any boundaries I set, even if they were in my head. I fell over and over and over again.

At the end of the day, the only thing that would satisfy me would be for him to turn himself into a treatment program. Since he insisted that was not going to happen, I had to let go and we have separated. The crazy part is that I am still at times getting sucked in, and finding myself on a rollercoaster, even with him out of our house. But we are still married and have two young children, so it adds more to the mix.

I had to reach this point through a process that basically took me a year and a half of entertaining. For me, I still loved him, I still do, and I never intended for us to be apart - gee I married for better for worse, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, I couldn't take the craziness anymore and I was getting extremely sick myself. I guess there are differnent levels of codependency and I have to classify myself as a raging codependent. I don't think very many raging codependents are capable of finding their own recovery and healing while still living amongst the chaos. I have a very long way to go, I know that, and only now feel some space to figure out where to start. I don't feel that I've come very far yet. I still have lots of decisions to make...

Sorry that I'm not much help. Just telling you a little about my situation. Take care and hang on to you!

Babyblue

I don't think boundaries are about wording or intent but about what you need to do to protect your emotional health and well-being.

A boundary for me in your situation would be, I will not pay his bills. Period. Whether or not he pays or how much isn't setting a boundary because that is more of a rule and rules can and will be broken, esp by an addict.

Another boundary may be how you will not be around him if he is using. It is about protecting yourself more than it is about negotiating his actions. In other words, the boundary would be an action you will take to protect yourself if he is using for example.

It means not letting the other persons actions which you are not ok with, affect you in a harmful way. Sounds like more like limit setting you've posted then protective boundaries. Not sure if I'm making sense but if you put the other person in any part of maintaining your boundary then it is going to lead to frustration if they've dropped the ball. Only you can create, and maintain your boundaries irrespective of the other persons actions.

You can only control what yourself basically and sorry if I'm rambly but I am pooped

itisatruth

That's the kicker...being able to 1) Decide what's acceptable in your life (easier, for me) and then 2) understand what you are able/willing to "enforce" or, follow through with, to make sure your life is what you want it to be (the hard part).

Without #2, #1 is almost irrelevant. It's easy enough to say, "If he ___, I will ______." But I could never follow through with the "I will..."

Cessy, from what you wrote of your boundaries, what happens if they are broken? Has he broken any and, if so, have you made a change accordingly? What I mean is, you know he's using, but did he use around you, which is how you stated it?

Language is Important IMO; more of "If he...., I WILL..." and less, "If you....." or "I want...." (without that follow through). It should be all about what YOU need and what YOU are willing to do to get it. After all it's your life. Tell him or not, it's still your prerogative to decide what you want in your life.

Boundaries, for me, evolved. At first, I was full of empty threats because I wasn't ready to end it. Then I realized my boundaries did not have to be deal breakers. I began to say, "If he is high, I will remove myself." From there, I began to realize just how unacceptable being around an active addict was becoming to me and FINALLY became ready to take action. Now, I find myself applying the concept to my every day life, with friends, family, whoever I feel is a negative presence in my life.

Since this is already WAY longer than I intended, I'll try to make this part quick: detachment for me, meant taking the emotion out of it; realizing what he was/wasn't doing wasn't about me at all. It was a really strange feeling to go from being obsessed/depressed/angry/sad/whatever about what he was doing to feeling that, yeah, it's sad, but what is all my worrying/stressing/controlling doing....NOTHING....and surrendering to that lack of power over another person.

OK so, not so quick, but I tried!

itisatruth

Missed this first time....

Cessy: "Well.....yeah. That is what I said, isn't it."

Him: "But, but..."

(Cessy walks out the door towards her new, wonderful life.)

If you make your boundary and feel strongly that it is what you want/need, then it doesn't matter what he says or doesn't say, what he does or doesn't do. Realize you want it enough to make your boundary and follow through with it, or don't, but remember the power is yours.

ZombieWife

He checked out quite a while ago. He hasn't truly "been there" for a long time, so I doubt he has any leg to stand on in regard to throwing that one in your face.

Kindeyes

I think this was beautifully stated.

I am learning (and not just with my RAS) that boundaries are for me, they have to be communicated at the right time, and there has to be follow through.

Detachment is removing the emotion out of communicating the boundary and the follow through. It's getting a handle on the one thing I CAN control.....me and my emotional responses.

Most importantly, boundaries are how you protect yourself physically, emotionally and psychologically. And as itisatruth said......the consequences or follow through doesn't have to be deal breakers.....but they DO have to be something that you can control (because it has to do with what YOU are going to do...not what THEY have to do). Consistency is also very important.

Healthy boundaries are ingrained in some people. In others (like me) they were not allowed to have healthy boundaries in their family of origin so they have to be learned as an adult.

These are my thoughts on the issue for what it's worth.

gentle hugs

cassandra2

Havent been around in awhile...Do continue to read and reflect.

Cess, I have said this to you many times but I would like to repeat it again, for myself, others, and of course you.

When I detached from my addict it was for ME. I couldnt follow boundaries because it was to hard for me to follow through with them. Looking back I think it was probably because my boundary was contigent on what he did.

Some of you may remember that we shared a child in common and he was taking care of our child while I went to school and work during the day. Because of that I saw him twice a day everyday. And because I thought (being a huge codie) that if I could just talk to him I could make him see what he was doing wrong. If I could just say that one RIGHT word it would change him. I continued with this.

At some point it became too much for me. Everyday I would get on the codie hampster wheel and believe I could change things.

I woke up one day, defeated. I called and enrolled my child in day care. I called him and told him from now on she would be in daycare. On his weekends he would drop our daughter at daycare and I would pick her up. This eliminated the daily contact.

I STOPPED taking his phone calls. I let them go to voice mail. I listened to the messages and then would decide to call his sister (whom he lived with) if it warrented an answer.

This was hard to do. I was breaking the cycle. But I wasnt doing it to punish him, make him realize, or teach him a lesson. I was doing it for me. I couldnt take it anymore. I was hurting MYSELF by telling myself I was the only one that could save him. I was hurting myself by staying on that damn addiction hampster wheel. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

I was indifferent. It wasnt that I didnt care about him it was that I cared more for myself and what I wanted for my life.

I knew that I was on my own road to recovery when I listened to a message one day and he asked for our daughters nebulizer (she has asthma) and instead of running over there and saving the day, I simply quietly dropped it off on the front porch and left.

This was freeing for me. I knew I was truly done. I knew that I wasnt going to use something like that to ease my way back into chaos.

When your done, your done. Boundaries are (IMO) too hard to put into place as long as you are willing to continue in the chaos with an addict. We have talked many times about that.

Detaching from him meant freedom for me. I was free from the mental prison I had put myself in. I was free from feeling the exhausting feeling of worry. I realized that the only person I could save here was myself. And I had to. I have children whom I CANNOT fail.

Cess, I am sorry you are still suffering. I really am. But just as an addict gets sick and tired of being sick and tired so to will the codie! Hugs to you girl. I am here!

sofacat

Hi Cess....

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. I just plain sucks.

You find yourself now forced to make a decision. It's really not about wording, it's about making the decision.

When Mr.Sofa relapsed...when I came home that night and saw his tiny pupils, it was like a shot went through me.

Oh God, it's happening. Now what do I do? I knew that I had had enough and didn't want to live one more day with his addiction and chaos...I couldn't. It was consuming me, and I was not able to just "look the other way"....if I did, I would be contributing to his addiction same as the dealers do. Enabling, coddling, feeding the addiction. Giving him permission to take drugs in my home without consequences.
And consequently, taking me down with it.

It's not about wording here Cess...it's finding yourself in shock that you are faced with making a decision for yourself.

The first night of Mr.Sofa's relapse, I asked him to stay someplace else. When he was sober he could return. But when he did return, he was still on pills. Tried to tell me it was a residual effect from the ones he had taken the day before. "Quack". I was p!ssed! And I said well, if you still look like this tomorrow...you're gonna need to find someplace else to stay. And I went into my room with my laptop, had a LONG LONG talk with myself in the mirror, and said "You HAVE to do this!" It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I stayed on here the whole night until I fell asleep.

I didn't have the strength to permanently break from him...but I did find the strength to ask him to stay somewhere else for a little while. I needed the support from you all, I needed some space from him to think...and just took it one day at a time from there.

This really just boils down to what kind of life you are ready to have for yourself. Not about how you worded it to get there.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.
You'll know when you are ready.

I'm sorry. We are here.

outtolunch

Happy New Year, stranger.

A week or so ago, Cynical One posted:

"You's" are control statements. "I's" are boundaries.

As for the alternatives:

You could accept him as is/where is, or

You can dump him.

Anything in between is pure hell-o. You already know this.

cessy68

Hi Outto-
Ya know what's funny? I just noticed your join date was in 08 at well as mine... I think mine was Nov. 08 , whereas yours is Feb.... however, it seems to me (that even back then) I looked at you as such a pro...

I guess my work here is not 'done'.

It's interesting that you said, "you already know this... there are many things I do know now, that I didn't before. Yet, at times, I feel like I missed the boat, missed a meeting, or didn't get the notice on what 'to do' in these situations. Urgh. I guess that's why I keep comming back. This is the one and only outlet I have (besides my personal therapist) to discuss my issues w/ living with an addict.

Frustrated, and trying not to be.

Love,
Cess.
P.s.- have been around, but not posting- simply responding now and then and reading all along.....

itisatruth

Thank you for saying that...one of my favorite quotes says "There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path." It is soooo true. But the beauty of life is, we can keep growing, keep getting stronger. I'm STILL trying to walk that darn path. Keep asking questions Cessy, keep taking those steps forward. I truly believe it will get you to where you need to be. Often, I feel like I will never get "there"...where ever "there" is, to where I think I have good "recovery" or totally trust myself. Yet, I know I am in a way better place than I was when I started, and it can only get better. Hugs~