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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Deep breath Steve, your part is done. You kept all your promises to her. You set your boundaries over the drug use and refused to be a part of that and stuck to it. You showed her just what you are willing to do for her and that is support her recovery and health not her addiction.
Now it's her decision to make from here.
Now you wait.
No stalking her progress.
No following her.
That's not abandonment, that's love.
Looking at it from a recovery standpoint, you both have a lot of work ahead of you. It's time for you both to get to it. Show her the recovery in yourself that you wish for her to find on her own. Be the example.
I let go of my EX after 10+ years. I promised myself that if I found true recovery and he did the same, I could try being in contact with him. I had learned to give that a year at the least, so I let that time pass as I worked on me.
You can do this. You can get well and let her get well, too. Have faith in yourself.
Now what will you be doing for your health and wellness today, Steve? No one else, just Steve. Connect with friends and family? Some time out of the house pursuing a hobby maybe? Pick something, anything and get to it.
Alice
Now it's her decision to make from here.
Now you wait.
No stalking her progress.
No following her.
That's not abandonment, that's love.
Looking at it from a recovery standpoint, you both have a lot of work ahead of you. It's time for you both to get to it. Show her the recovery in yourself that you wish for her to find on her own. Be the example.
I let go of my EX after 10+ years. I promised myself that if I found true recovery and he did the same, I could try being in contact with him. I had learned to give that a year at the least, so I let that time pass as I worked on me.
You can do this. You can get well and let her get well, too. Have faith in yourself.
Now what will you be doing for your health and wellness today, Steve? No one else, just Steve. Connect with friends and family? Some time out of the house pursuing a hobby maybe? Pick something, anything and get to it.
Alice
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
freedom-
the ONLY support i could possibly give is a ride to rehab if she needed it. i cant think of anything i could do. nothing. i see that SHE needs to WANT recovery and EMBRACE it and LIVE it.
i am able to release something today.
the ONLY support i could possibly give is a ride to rehab if she needed it. i cant think of anything i could do. nothing. i see that SHE needs to WANT recovery and EMBRACE it and LIVE it.
i am able to release something today.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
and the survey says......
...not looking good. still at the hospital but wants to get discharged. understands i am not 'helping' any more.
i am notfreaking out. i am saddened, but i am realizing that if her and iboth share this dream ot be together, it cant be now. it can only be when we are both healthy.
i allowed my involvment to remain in the fashion i chose. i said this past week i was willing to give her the benefit one more time and let her do it her way so that i could see if she was ready. saddly she is not.
i do love her enough to step aside. it will be hard at times i know. i may fool myself thinking of the future happily ever after, but i know now that the only way that can happen is for her to seek recovery. today i feel the pain of so many others, how we look at an addict at their low but see more than that and that brings so much saddness. i refuse to believe thatthe other side of her is gone for good. people do recover. i hope she is one of them. i really don't think she'll make it long the way she looks.
the 'friend' has stopped supporting her too. she has no option but the street. its cold and wet here. i am so scared she will resort to 'working' again as much as it troubles her doing so.
just last night she was talking about inspirartion and how being clean for years and having a family would be sucha reward and better than any drug. but heroin would not stop whispering and it called her back. why couldn't she resist this one time? why not try after being clean almost three days? she said when she was inspired to quit that she could take it just for today, that the drugs would always be out there but that she needed to try this. it's hard to accept that there is a part of her that wants a better life but that she cant find her way because of the addiction. it sucks.
as for me,
i have to remain positive and strong and focus on things for me. i collect records. music is my first love and i have a large collection of vinyl, and have been compiling a massive index of rare stuff. tonight i am getting a cheesesteak and watching a movie while i work on my compendium.
i am notfreaking out. i am saddened, but i am realizing that if her and iboth share this dream ot be together, it cant be now. it can only be when we are both healthy.
i allowed my involvment to remain in the fashion i chose. i said this past week i was willing to give her the benefit one more time and let her do it her way so that i could see if she was ready. saddly she is not.
i do love her enough to step aside. it will be hard at times i know. i may fool myself thinking of the future happily ever after, but i know now that the only way that can happen is for her to seek recovery. today i feel the pain of so many others, how we look at an addict at their low but see more than that and that brings so much saddness. i refuse to believe thatthe other side of her is gone for good. people do recover. i hope she is one of them. i really don't think she'll make it long the way she looks.
the 'friend' has stopped supporting her too. she has no option but the street. its cold and wet here. i am so scared she will resort to 'working' again as much as it troubles her doing so.
just last night she was talking about inspirartion and how being clean for years and having a family would be sucha reward and better than any drug. but heroin would not stop whispering and it called her back. why couldn't she resist this one time? why not try after being clean almost three days? she said when she was inspired to quit that she could take it just for today, that the drugs would always be out there but that she needed to try this. it's hard to accept that there is a part of her that wants a better life but that she cant find her way because of the addiction. it sucks.
as for me,
i have to remain positive and strong and focus on things for me. i collect records. music is my first love and i have a large collection of vinyl, and have been compiling a massive index of rare stuff. tonight i am getting a cheesesteak and watching a movie while i work on my compendium.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 457
so sorry steve, sorry you continue on the path of self destruction. we all have been through it steve, your situation is no different. we all believe there is hope with our addicts, we all believe they still have something good in them. but the reality is, they are gone, gone to drugs and thats what they choice. we on the other hand wait and wait and wait, our lives evolve around them , we stop living for them, it tears each and everyone of us up.
until we seek recovery, until we move forward, until we let go.
we all fought the battle of helping them, loving them. going with them to rehab , enabling them, believing in them, just like you.
I truly truly hope you now start your own recovery because you certainly need too, just like each and everyone of us are trying to do.
its not going to be easy, but is it easy on you right now?
lets see some posts from you now steve about YOU.
we are there for you with the next steps in your journey of recovery.
with all do respect thats what this forum is about.
so do it for you and do it for others on here.
we are all in this together,maybe our stories are somewhat different but its all for support for families and friends of addicts,its not about the addict.
until we seek recovery, until we move forward, until we let go.
we all fought the battle of helping them, loving them. going with them to rehab , enabling them, believing in them, just like you.
I truly truly hope you now start your own recovery because you certainly need too, just like each and everyone of us are trying to do.
its not going to be easy, but is it easy on you right now?
lets see some posts from you now steve about YOU.
we are there for you with the next steps in your journey of recovery.
with all do respect thats what this forum is about.
so do it for you and do it for others on here.
we are all in this together,maybe our stories are somewhat different but its all for support for families and friends of addicts,its not about the addict.
The sun still shines
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 472
Originally Posted by wheredoiturn 
You do know how to say no. It is easy. NO. You don't want to say no.
Originally Posted by ZombieWife
Steve,
Hang in there. I guess I could throw out some disgusting catty/snarky comment (thinking that I, myself, have all the answers and a sh1tty attitude will somehow make you all better).
Hang in there. I guess I could throw out some disgusting catty/snarky comment (thinking that I, myself, have all the answers and a sh1tty attitude will somehow make you all better).
I have found that I cannot heal unless I am brutally honest with myself. I also need to admit to myself that the power is with me, not somewhere else. No one else need to change their behaviour before I can heal.
When Steve says "I don't know how to say no", I hear that he is powerless and I don't buy it. He is saying yes because he wants to. The reason may be that he does not want to appear unkind, that he feels sorry for her, whatever, but he is still making the choice to say yes and suffering the consequences for his choice.
Unless one admits the truth to yourself and see that you are not powerless at all, how do you take a step forward?
Last edited by Sunshine2; 01-07-2011 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Fixing spelling
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
"i am notfreaking out. i am saddened, but i am realizing that if her and iboth share this dream ot be together, it cant be now. it can only be when we are both healthy.......just last night she was talking about inspirartion and how being clean for years and having a family would be sucha reward and better than any drug. but heroin would not stop whispering and it called her back. why couldn't she resist this one time? why not try after being clean almost three days? she said when she was inspired to quit that she could take it just for today, that the drugs would always be out there but that she needed to try this. it's hard to accept that there is a part of her that wants a better life but that she cant find her way...."
It is your dream Steve, she is just stalling recovery. Addicts dream of more drugs, not the future
Quitting the habit is NOT about inspiration. That is you romanticizing her situation. It is about just being tired of having to live that life on a practical day to day level. Not some lofty future or plan 'inspires' them to stop using.
There will come a day Steve, when you step away from this mess, where you will actually replace all those romanticized versions with the cold hard truth of her life as an addict. You'll see that she has zero capacity to comprehend the kind of love you offered let alone participate in it now or in the immediate future.
There is no happy ending sadly, there is lots of wreckage and damaged lives to repair and heal.
It is about simply being able to live like the rest of us working slugs who work, pay bills, and don't break laws or destroy other lives. It is about simply living without the need to use on a pretty basic level.
All that other idealized stuff of future and kids has no bearing on what the future will actually be for her. The faster you let it go, the quicker you will heal from this experience.
No one knows the future. And I am the biggest romantic idealist there is and if I say it is a waste of mental and emotional energy to see her in those eyes then take notice I am just now facing truths about my RABF's life and situation that are shredding those fantasies one by one. Doesn't make me give up or lose hope or love less, nope. It just makes accepting that I need to live my life for ME and not set myself up for disappointment and heart ache lots easier.
Hang in there Steve, you will be ok. More ok than you think
It is your dream Steve, she is just stalling recovery. Addicts dream of more drugs, not the future
Quitting the habit is NOT about inspiration. That is you romanticizing her situation. It is about just being tired of having to live that life on a practical day to day level. Not some lofty future or plan 'inspires' them to stop using.
There will come a day Steve, when you step away from this mess, where you will actually replace all those romanticized versions with the cold hard truth of her life as an addict. You'll see that she has zero capacity to comprehend the kind of love you offered let alone participate in it now or in the immediate future.
There is no happy ending sadly, there is lots of wreckage and damaged lives to repair and heal.
It is about simply being able to live like the rest of us working slugs who work, pay bills, and don't break laws or destroy other lives. It is about simply living without the need to use on a pretty basic level.
All that other idealized stuff of future and kids has no bearing on what the future will actually be for her. The faster you let it go, the quicker you will heal from this experience.
No one knows the future. And I am the biggest romantic idealist there is and if I say it is a waste of mental and emotional energy to see her in those eyes then take notice
I am just now facing truths about my RABF's life and situation that are shredding those fantasies one by one. Doesn't make me give up or lose hope or love less, nope. It just makes accepting that I need to live my life for ME and not set myself up for disappointment and heart ache lots easier.Hang in there Steve, you will be ok. More ok than you think
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,288
Addicts dream of more drugs, not the future
When I hit my alcoholic/medication abuse bottom, the only thing I was thinking about was how am I going to get the next bottle. Where I was going to drink it, and how I could get away from everyone who is bothering me about it...How I was going to get my next refill from the doctor and how I was going to make sure there was enough until next prescription allowed to be refilled. I even went to my doctor's appointment drunk. I don't know how they never noticed anything, nor said or asked me anything.
I begged my husband on Sundays to take me out for a drink (no liquor sold on Sundays in this state), or I would sneak out at 12:30 on the dot as soon as the bar doors were open.
Now while doing all this insanity, I was also going through chemo for colon cancer. I would buy six pack at the gas station on the way home from chemo. HOW SICK IS THAT!!! I continued drinking for another year after, until finally I saw I couldn't do this any more.
I was the one that finally took my husband's advice and went to rehab. I saw that I was in some kind of insane mental tornado and I couldn't control myself, and neither could anyone else, control me, I mean.
My rehab was in April 2010. Being on this forum helped me a lot too.
I wish you good luck, and I feel sorry for your friend. She may be a lost cause. Who knows. You may even stay in this relationship until one of you is dead. Who knows.
Life is not easy. We suffer, for ourselves, for others, and another day moves on. The sun comes up, the sun goes down. Makes no difference if we're up or six feet under.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
I have refrained from posting on this thread. I will not and do not offer you any advice. I can only share what I have learned for myself.
I have learned......
That my son knows I love him no matter whether he is using or not.
That my son loves me whether he is using or not.
That my son has an HP and I am not it.
That sometimes the best action....is no action at all.
That my HP hands be strangely packaged gifts.
That when my HP doesn't answer me right away....he's working on HIS timeline...not mine.
That letting go and letting God takes a huge burden off my back.
That I am responsible for me.
That I can control my emotions and reactions.
That doing the same thing over and over again made me the crazy one.
That I can be firm with my boundaries without yelling or threatening.
That I can say what I mean without saying it mean.
That the strongest statements often have no words.
That "oh well" is my favorite thing to say to myself.
That progress is my goal.....not perfection.
That my serenity is the most important thing to me....it means more to me than my son's sobriety
That the best gift I can give to the people who love me is MY recovery.
That I am a better person today than I was a year ago.
That I can forgive myself and accept myself.
That who I am today is up to me.
That I am stronger than I thought I was.
That I can have compassion for others but it starts with compassion for myself.
......and so much more.
I wish you peace, Steve. Keep searching......you'll get there.
gentle hugs
I have learned......
That my son knows I love him no matter whether he is using or not.
That my son loves me whether he is using or not.
That my son has an HP and I am not it.
That sometimes the best action....is no action at all.
That my HP hands be strangely packaged gifts.
That when my HP doesn't answer me right away....he's working on HIS timeline...not mine.
That letting go and letting God takes a huge burden off my back.
That I am responsible for me.
That I can control my emotions and reactions.
That doing the same thing over and over again made me the crazy one.
That I can be firm with my boundaries without yelling or threatening.
That I can say what I mean without saying it mean.
That the strongest statements often have no words.
That "oh well" is my favorite thing to say to myself.
That progress is my goal.....not perfection.
That my serenity is the most important thing to me....it means more to me than my son's sobriety
That the best gift I can give to the people who love me is MY recovery.
That I am a better person today than I was a year ago.
That I can forgive myself and accept myself.
That who I am today is up to me.
That I am stronger than I thought I was.
That I can have compassion for others but it starts with compassion for myself.
......and so much more.
I wish you peace, Steve. Keep searching......you'll get there.
gentle hugs
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
i am so scared she will resort to 'working' again as much as it troubles her doing so.
I saw that I was in some kind of insane mental tornado and I couldn't control myself, and neither could anyone else, control me, I mean.
but i could still convince myself to get blackout drunk again that night. mental tornado and insanity. no control there. only the next numb feeling.
thank you for your honesty kiki.
steve, i ask that you consider surrender. surrender to your powerlessness over her addiction and lifestyle. when you surrender, you win, because then your life becomes yours again, not just one big walking nerve waiting for her next move.
steve, i have been where you are. i truly honestly have been there.
please surrender and let go.
Beth
Ps, someone in another thread mentioned claw marks. as in everything they held onto had claw marks trying to get away. you do not want that for your friend. let go.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: lancaster, PA
Posts: 852
Originally Posted by Kindeyes
I have refrained from posting on this thread. I will not and do not offer you any advice. I can only share what I have learned for myself.
I have learned......
That my son knows I love him no matter whether he is using or not.
That my son loves me whether he is using or not.
That my son has an HP and I am not it.
That sometimes the best action....is no action at all.
That my HP hands be strangely packaged gifts.
That when my HP doesn't answer me right away....he's working on HIS timeline...not mine.
That letting go and letting God takes a huge burden off my back.
That I am responsible for me.
That I can control my emotions and reactions.
That doing the same thing over and over again made me the crazy one.
That I can be firm with my boundaries without yelling or threatening.
That I can say what I mean without saying it mean.
That the strongest statements often have no words.
That "oh well" is my favorite thing to say to myself.
That progress is my goal.....not perfection.
That my serenity is the most important thing to me....it means more to me than my son's sobriety
That the best gift I can give to the people who love me is MY recovery.
That I am a better person today than I was a year ago.
That I can forgive myself and accept myself.
That who I am today is up to me.
That I am stronger than I thought I was.
That I can have compassion for others but it starts with compassion for myself.
......and so much more.
I wish you peace, Steve. Keep searching......you'll get there.
gentle hugs
I have learned......
That my son knows I love him no matter whether he is using or not.
That my son loves me whether he is using or not.
That my son has an HP and I am not it.
That sometimes the best action....is no action at all.
That my HP hands be strangely packaged gifts.
That when my HP doesn't answer me right away....he's working on HIS timeline...not mine.
That letting go and letting God takes a huge burden off my back.
That I am responsible for me.
That I can control my emotions and reactions.
That doing the same thing over and over again made me the crazy one.
That I can be firm with my boundaries without yelling or threatening.
That I can say what I mean without saying it mean.
That the strongest statements often have no words.
That "oh well" is my favorite thing to say to myself.
That progress is my goal.....not perfection.
That my serenity is the most important thing to me....it means more to me than my son's sobriety
That the best gift I can give to the people who love me is MY recovery.
That I am a better person today than I was a year ago.
That I can forgive myself and accept myself.
That who I am today is up to me.
That I am stronger than I thought I was.
That I can have compassion for others but it starts with compassion for myself.
......and so much more.
I wish you peace, Steve. Keep searching......you'll get there.
gentle hugs
There are too many great "That" quotes by you, that I can't limit myself to highlighting only one--
WOW.
What an amazing post-- I personally think it should be a sticky.
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou-- for those very profound thoughts.
Cess
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
thanks for the weekend repies. i managed to not log in until now. it hasnt taken me over. at some point since i last posted i realized what some of you have been saying about making this about me and not her. to my surprise, there were some postes about that while i was gone. so i guess i am getting on the right track. i am starting to understand what you mean about my updates about her. they are no different that any others. i won't post about the particulars of this weekend. i'll say that there was some steady contact. there was a great deal of snippy, bickering stuff until it just got ridiculous and we sorted somethings out. or maybe i jsut changed my attitude and approach. i am usually the easiest person to get along with and never say or do things to intentionally be mean. i found myself unleashing all this pent up hostility and being a mean person. just like what happened last week at some point. it broke me down i said i am not like this. i am not this person. i have to change. i look at the pattern of the past week or so and try using that as my guidepost. monday, in detox- left detox. tues the same. wed in jail. thur out of jail. fri into detox, out of detox. sat in detox, out of detox. sunday a break from detox. mon no show for detox.
she knows i love her. she knows i am working on getting my life back. i know now that the actions from me that feel unhelpful are actually out of love. i have to start blocking the thoughts and images that make me sad and think of what makes me happy.
she knows i love her. she knows i am working on getting my life back. i know now that the actions from me that feel unhelpful are actually out of love. i have to start blocking the thoughts and images that make me sad and think of what makes me happy.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
superb Steve...you deserve happiness for you!
You can have it too!
I wasn't sure about that at one point...but lo and behold, my days are pretty untroubled, stress free, contain no drama and are about me being as healthy as I can be.
Didn't happen overnight. But it's happening!
I look back at who I was then and don't really recognize myself anymore.
You can have it too!
I wasn't sure about that at one point...but lo and behold, my days are pretty untroubled, stress free, contain no drama and are about me being as healthy as I can be.
Didn't happen overnight. But it's happening!
I look back at who I was then and don't really recognize myself anymore.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
tonight i wil be put to the test. i feel something is up. i have an uneasy feeling.
i feel i will have to make a firm decision. one that i have to conjure up all my strength for. i dont know why, but its that 6th sense thing
i feel i will have to make a firm decision. one that i have to conjure up all my strength for. i dont know why, but its that 6th sense thing
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
best wishes.
you know..being with my XAABF, I became a person I didn't know. I said the meanest, nastiest things that I never would have dreamed of saying to anyone.
I recognize now that I was just that frustrated and off-kilter. That addiction is a family disease. That is what it did to me. I became someone I didn't like.
you know..being with my XAABF, I became a person I didn't know. I said the meanest, nastiest things that I never would have dreamed of saying to anyone.
I recognize now that I was just that frustrated and off-kilter. That addiction is a family disease. That is what it did to me. I became someone I didn't like.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
Originally Posted by steve1840
i'll say that there was some steady contact. there was a great deal of snippy, bickering stuff until it just got ridiculous and we sorted somethings out. or maybe i jsut changed my attitude and approach. i am usually the easiest person to get along with and never say or do things to intentionally be mean. i found myself unleashing all this pent up hostility and being a mean person. just like what happened last week at some point. it broke me down i said i am not like this. i am not this person. i have to change. i look at the pattern of the past week or so and try using that as my guidepost. monday, in detox- left detox. tues the same. wed in jail. thur out of jail. fri into detox, out of detox. sat in detox, out of detox. sunday a break from detox. mon no show for detox.
she knows i love her. she knows i am working on getting my life back. i know now that the actions from me that feel unhelpful are actually out of love. i have to start blocking the thoughts and images that make me sad and think of what makes me happy.
she knows i love her. she knows i am working on getting my life back. i know now that the actions from me that feel unhelpful are actually out of love. i have to start blocking the thoughts and images that make me sad and think of what makes me happy.
You are hindering her chance at seeking recovery Steve. Please go no contact. For your sake but clearly now for hers.
Working out your emotional issues on an addict is very dangerous for the addict.
You gotta leave her be
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
after those last spats i realized i have become a different person again. i subtly let myself get sucked back in. i am not at the peaceful place i used to live in. i dont have my own life. i finally see it. it seems that by falling into it again i can see more clearly. the forst round was filled with my lack of experience and was run by my emotions. through time and experience my emotions have changed and i see the addiction as a slow death. i see that as much as she retains parts of her, it is like she is possesed by somethnig else.
so my intuition was right. but i will try to avoid the details again about her and say what i feel. i feel it is the right thing to do to not enable. i finally see how that is a kind act. for her and for me. its hard, but there is just no progress on her end. there have been six trips to the hospital in two weeks and not one has lasted more than several hours. there is always the same story of one more. i can buy that once or twice, but there is something liberating about what is happening now.
of course you were all right all along. but there was no way i could have done it different and felt thati did what was right. i tried. i reached my end. i want to buy records again. i want to save for the vintage muscle car i sold a couple years ago. i want to live alone in my space and read, write, learn more guitar, relax.
i know it isnt over. i know i will get into some weird places wit hher and my heart and guilt will be tugged, but i feel stronger. we talked and have come to an understanding. my refusal to help is the best help i can give. i told her i need my life back and she said she was glad to hear that. just words? perhaps. but my part will show action. i need to. i need that to grow.
is any one familiar wit hthe book the hero with a thousand faces by joseph campbell? its about each of us on our journey and the battles we face. that we can only come to maturity by fighting the demons and gaining our strength and confidence. then we become men and women. its based on jungian psychology and mythology.
so my intuition was right. but i will try to avoid the details again about her and say what i feel. i feel it is the right thing to do to not enable. i finally see how that is a kind act. for her and for me. its hard, but there is just no progress on her end. there have been six trips to the hospital in two weeks and not one has lasted more than several hours. there is always the same story of one more. i can buy that once or twice, but there is something liberating about what is happening now.
of course you were all right all along. but there was no way i could have done it different and felt thati did what was right. i tried. i reached my end. i want to buy records again. i want to save for the vintage muscle car i sold a couple years ago. i want to live alone in my space and read, write, learn more guitar, relax.
i know it isnt over. i know i will get into some weird places wit hher and my heart and guilt will be tugged, but i feel stronger. we talked and have come to an understanding. my refusal to help is the best help i can give. i told her i need my life back and she said she was glad to hear that. just words? perhaps. but my part will show action. i need to. i need that to grow.
is any one familiar wit hthe book the hero with a thousand faces by joseph campbell? its about each of us on our journey and the battles we face. that we can only come to maturity by fighting the demons and gaining our strength and confidence. then we become men and women. its based on jungian psychology and mythology.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 697
The monomyth (Campbell) is a great model. Try some Jung as well if you're interested in seeing the roots of Campbell's work. Memories, Dreams, Reflections is a great place to start!
It sounds like you have a good grasp on what you want in the future.
It sounds like you have a good grasp on what you want in the future.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
LOL
I have read it but I am afraid it has been too long ago to remember. I gave up slaying dragons.
Someone here has a signature: this may be paraphrased, sorry,
"never meddle in the affair of dragons, to them you taste good crunchy with ketchup"
for myself, I wish I would have seen that before I came away chewed up and spit out.
I have read it but I am afraid it has been too long ago to remember. I gave up slaying dragons.
Someone here has a signature: this may be paraphrased, sorry,
"never meddle in the affair of dragons, to them you taste good crunchy with ketchup"
for myself, I wish I would have seen that before I came away chewed up and spit out.
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