trying to stay afloat

Old 12-16-2010, 04:39 PM
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((Steve)) - just a reminder that until I had some serious recovery time behind me, I truly believed what I was saying, but now I see I wasn't so healthy. Even when I went months without smoking crack, the first time, I didn't have a very healthy outlook on life. I was just "not smoking" and truly thought that's all I had to do.

You say you "don't want to give up on my friend, i don't want to lose faith in her, and i dont want her to think i gave up or lost faith."

I wish her the best, but I really do care about you. However, I think I need to detach from this thread, for a bit. It took me every single one of the 30+ years I've spent in dysfunctional relationships WITH A's and becoming one to get to where I am. I was told, in AA "we have to go through what we go through to get to where we are", and I can't make you go through anything any faster. Though I will continue to pray for you, I'm doing what is called "detaching with love", my friend.

Love, hugs, and prayers,

Amy
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by steve1840 View Post
chino- it does scare me. i am scared of doing the wrong thing and i am scared of doing the right thing.
Remember I'm talking about impending NC because of a family emergency here -- what is the wrong/right thing?
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:59 PM
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I have a male friend whom I love. I happened to talk with him today and I shared a bit about your story because I know he had a similar one many years ago when he was younger.

He fell in love with a dancer. (read also stripper/prostitute). She became pregnant with his child. He wanted to do the right thing by her and he loved her. He bought her an engagement ring. He helped her in every way he knew to be best. He met and spoke with her every day through out the pregnancy. He is a very smart and ethical man. Well, that guy at her apartment that she said was her brother. Not. He was her abusive husband. She could have left that husband and that life for a good life with a good man. She didn't. But she did string him along for financial and emotional support, planning marriage and parenthood with him all the while. She seemed utterly sincere and he believed that she loved him as much as he loved her. She told him she wanted all the same things that he did and how much he meant to her and how much he helped her and was so good for her. She went into the hospital to give birth and he could not find her. After that she simply disappeared. He spent years looking for her and information on his child. He learned that he has a daughter through the grapevine. People told him, do not look for her any longer, she does not want to be found. She does not want you to find her. She has a daughter, the daughter's first name is: xxxxx. She has been seen back in the life but not where you can find her. Give it up, go on.
This man will never have any more children. It breaks his heart to know he has a daughter, the kind of life she is living and that he was unable to do anything about it and for her. He no longer believes that this woman was even honest about what her real name was. he does believe it is his daughter as he was told how much the daughter resembles him and etc through others in his searching.

So, when I mention your story to him...he doesn't lack compassion but he also says that without a doubt that you are softening and enabling her and aiding her in her addiction and getting in the way of any recovery she might have.
He is also a recovered addict.
He aslo acknowledges that if she gets clean you will not be in her life.
He says that you are using her and she is using you.
He doesn't have any equivocation about whether you are being conned big time. He considers that a given.

Anything he suggested to me that we might be able to share with you to help with your dilemna, understanding and pain and also be caring of her and that outcome...I had to say, we have all ready said that. yes, and that. that too.

It isn't a matter of finding out the truth about anything. That has been put out here in as many ways as I can currently think of...mostly by others.
It is about accepting the truth and behaving in accordance with it.
Feelings are to be felt and I understand that, but we cannot always behave simply according to our feelings, that would undo all of civilization!
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:51 PM
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Steve, I can see you becoming Simon very easily. You are that close. That is in fact something that often happens in these obsessive types of relationships, doing whatever it takes to have the person in your life. 'can't beat em, join em'.

It can happen sooner than you think and you won't even see it happening. Especially because you are sort of gullible (I mean that in a nice way!!) You believe her and her stories about 'cutting back' or 'thinking about recovery' when she is still actively using. It will probably be easy for her to pursuade you to use one day.
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:04 PM
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Steve - I agree with CO. If what you say is true, you both have it bad. REAL bad. You've known this woman for like what 6 months? If you are in this deep, then what? I had it BAD, but am thankful it wasn't this bad. From what I understand she's a woman you were intimate with for like 6-7 monthes? If so I'm so sorry for you. I'm glad she's not your child or the mother or your children. Your journey is painful to read about. But how sad would it be if she were your child or the mother of your children. From what I understand she's a short term girlfriend. Hence the frustration here. My addict was a 22 year long relationship. THe mothers on here are fighting for their children for decades to get clean. 6-7 months for a prostitute? I just don't get. I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. You have no REAL emotional or physcal tyes other than you want to 'save her'. She can't be saved unless she wants too. Clearly she doesn't.
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:19 PM
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Steve, your pain is yours not to be judged or invalidated by someone's addict or pain. You have the right to express how you feel, people have Off topic stuff here that has nothing to do with addiction so your codependency issues are valid and you should keep pounding them out here. It took me about 2 years after my first harsh consequence to embrace recovery, it takes time to get to a place were recovery is possible. Continue to post because you have as much valid right as anyone on here.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:16 AM
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Strange, I just realized I told you the same story about my friend from Ireland, way back in September.! I guess my friend's life/death is still in my mind/heart after all these years.

Or I'm having senior moments and just can't remember when I'm repeating myself.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:39 AM
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Or I'm having senior moments and just can't remember when I'm repeating myself.
Oh no, Kiki, I call these moments "searching for my wisdom files".
It's in there, crowded with all those other important things.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:55 AM
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Please Steve, read this as a son of your parents.

Originally Posted by steve1840 View Post
It is one thing to say you care about someone; it is another to sit down and take the time to listen carefully.
thank you tb. i am trying to listen. i hear things, but something else takes over my thoughts.

since you won't leave her be now... you are becoming more of an obstacle than a help
this is what i need explained to me. i don't understand how i am not letting her be. i don't preach or lecture her. i don't stand in the way of what she does.


when an addict says they will quit but still dabbles around with the drugs it infuriates those trying to get the addict help........ but there comes a time when the addict has to stop playing around and stop saying things and making promises and basically lying to themselves about how bad it is... it comes down to action... stopping the addiction no matter how painful it is
this seems to be the situation. there is dabbling, perhaps more than dabbling. it does not infuriate me though. i wonder whether she lies to herself about how bad it is and i do hope she gets to the point where she will not want to do anything anymore.

i guess i am credulous as well. she talks to me about things and wants to know what i think about things. some of what she tells me, i might not believe at first, but then i take her word for it (like i said earlier about not wanting to not believe someone).

i wish she quit all drugs use, but i at least know i cannot make that happen. i want to believe that she'll be able to get on her feet and repair her life. i was reading a book last night that hit on one of my issues: it is about us detaching or leaving them and them getting better. the concern is that after leaving them, they get better, but see that us leaving was an end to the relationship, so they move on to someone else.
i know i am basically standing on the sideline waiting. again, maybe i am gullible in that i believe her whne she says that she does want to be wit hme whe nshe gets better. so i guess i just wait. maybe its not healthy. maybe i am addicted to her. i feel then it is unfair of me to just leave her if what she says is true, about her loving me, but not having to work on herself. part of me feels i could say- you work on yourself and get better, when you are ready i'll be there

i know i was getting better with less contact. but now that she is making some attempt at changing things, i have the feeling that i am leaving at the wrong time. i am afraid of leaving when she may need the support of a friend during this. i know i don't think about myself. all i get concerned about is hurting her. i don't know how to be different.

i may be in this funk in part because my folks just had to come up from the south because my dad has to undergo major surgery this coming tuesday. we'll be in the hospital for a week with a 4-6 week recouperation period. there's too much i am trying to balance right now.
I wonder if part of your codependency/addiction to her is a way to avoid your fears about your father's upcoming surgery.
Out of this entire post, the last 3 sentences are about your folks who surely need your support and help now, not the addicted prostitute who seems to consume your thoughts.
What is happening to your father is fact, whatever you say about your "friend" is merely fantasy she tells you.

Beth
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
Oh no, Kiki, I call these moments "searching for my wisdom files".
It's in there, crowded with all those other important things.
LOL





I think I need to exercize more.

now back to you Steve.........
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:53 PM
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yes she is real and i think some people have missed part of my story with her. i have known her about 5 years. we dated and loved together before. she is not someone i met on the streets 7 months ago. it was 7 months ago that she went out on the streets and i looked for her etc. so she has been in my life in different ways for years and i know her pretty well and care for her, which is why i went looking for her over the summer. this is not about me hanging out with a street girl, its about someone i care about who went to the streets.

your stories and words are appreciated as always, i am just as confused as could be. i know she could be lying and all about so much. i know it in my gut. yet i dont feel she is just using me because we have known each other for years.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:05 PM
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your stories and words are appreciated as always, i am just as confused as could be. i know she could be lying and all about so much. i know it in my gut. yet i dont feel she is just using me because we have known each other for years.
how long have your parents known you?
is there a story there that i missed?
seven months is a long time on the streets, steve.
a long time.
how long was she using before she went out on the streets?
could your vision of what she was 5 years ago be skewing your vision of her now?
only because you do not want her to be what she is.
who needs convincing about her good qualities steve?
i know i dont.
i had to give up on my denial of my daughters drug abuse to detach and let her go.
she was 17, steve. 17 years old, my youngest, my little girl.
took zanax and tried just about everything else.
finally went to jail for being blackout drunk.
for gods sake steve, see what you can do for your parents.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:40 PM
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i know her pretty well
NO. The person you knew no longer exists.

Here is where she is at now:

What Addicts Do

My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.

My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.

My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.

And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.

Stop being surprised.

I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
Please for your own mental health, go NO CONTACT. You CANNOT help her now.

Love and hugs,
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:07 PM
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What is it you are so 'confused' about? That she is using and not in recovery? There isn't anything to figure out.

I guess what pains me the most is that you are putting so much energy into someone that gives ZERO in return and her not giving back has nothing to do with the drugs.

Many addicts are aware of the pain they are causing. She may be or may not but she doesn't care that you are suffering Steve. You are hearing what you want to hear.

That is the part that is maybe painful for you to acknowledge. All you are doing for her will not even remotely guarantee a spot in her life now or in the future. You kind of already know that.

And to know that you are putting so much energy into someone that doesn't see you as that important is the piece that you may be having the hardest time accepting. It is also the hardest part for many of us witnessing this.
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