trying to stay afloat
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And again, if you want her in your life when she seeks recovery then it is really important to step away from her now. She more than likely won't come to you clean if you are that involved with her in active addiction for many reasons. One of them being that her friendship with you will remind her of her using and she will be trying to keep those days behind her. Being reminded of them risks triggering relapse. In recovery they are often encouraged to let go of friends and places that they had while using for that reason. Even if that person was not an addict, if they enabled her in any way, she will be encouraged to not have that person in her life for some time.
Sorry about your dad. That happens for me as well, when some other stress happens, everything becomes difficult. But focus on your dad and family right now. It may be very therapuetic for you. When my son was ill over the summer, It totally shifted my focus from the then binging beau onto someone who really did need me, my son.
Sorry about your dad. That happens for me as well, when some other stress happens, everything becomes difficult. But focus on your dad and family right now. It may be very therapuetic for you. When my son was ill over the summer, It totally shifted my focus from the then binging beau onto someone who really did need me, my son.
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Codependents clean up messes because they feel helpless and by 'doing' something it gives them a false sense that they are helping. But it is in vain because that help does not push them towards seeking help, it can have the opposite effect. Why get help if someone else is there to pick up the slack of you not having income, a place to stay, food, etc. etc
Ahhhhhh. i see a bit more clearly. so my being an obstacle would be giving money, giving rides, etc. these are the things i do really try not to do. some i do not do. the black and white is where i get worried. i know it should be that i dont want to be around her if she is using at all, but i gues i am just not there yet.
Ahhhhhh. i see a bit more clearly. so my being an obstacle would be giving money, giving rides, etc. these are the things i do really try not to do. some i do not do. the black and white is where i get worried. i know it should be that i dont want to be around her if she is using at all, but i gues i am just not there yet.
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Any time you give her a soft place to land in any way, shape or form you are in some measure helping to continue the lifestyle she is in.
Helping her feel better about herself while she lives in a way that is destroying her hurts her more than helps her.
This is true whether you see it or believe it or not.
It really can be that simple and black and white.
Someone I love, a man I care about, was in a similar situation at one time in his life.
Helping her feel better about herself while she lives in a way that is destroying her hurts her more than helps her.
This is true whether you see it or believe it or not.
It really can be that simple and black and white.
Someone I love, a man I care about, was in a similar situation at one time in his life.
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i may be in this funk in part because my folks just had to come... there's too much i am trying to balance right now.
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Helping her feel better about herself while she lives in a way that is destroying her hurts her more than helps her.
i do believe this.
i am too scared for me and her to do anything about it
i try to give the benefit that she is/will-be making positive changes and get concerned this is the wrong time to leave.
i think this may have become such an issue again for me because i got so close to making a change, i got right to the edge, but stepped back to let it seem that everythnig is ok for now.
chino- yes, it does
i do believe this.
i am too scared for me and her to do anything about it
i try to give the benefit that she is/will-be making positive changes and get concerned this is the wrong time to leave.
i think this may have become such an issue again for me because i got so close to making a change, i got right to the edge, but stepped back to let it seem that everythnig is ok for now.
chino- yes, it does
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well than Steve...if she got in strong recovery she would say "this guy was in my life and a friend of that life that almost cost me mine. I cannot afford to have that or anything associated with that in my life." and she would be gone from yours.
that is what recovery looks like.
that is what recovery looks like.
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Hard to say because recovery is so unique but it is better to have you thought of as healthy thing, a good thing that she has in her life than associate you with her actively using time.
Remember there is so much shame and embarassment involved when they are in recovery, shame for what they did while using and what they made others witness. That alone would keep her away from you because of having to face someone who saw her at her worse. It would be a horrible reminder
Let her be reminded of you as someone who is healthy and thriving and enjoying his life.
Remember there is so much shame and embarassment involved when they are in recovery, shame for what they did while using and what they made others witness. That alone would keep her away from you because of having to face someone who saw her at her worse. It would be a horrible reminder
Let her be reminded of you as someone who is healthy and thriving and enjoying his life.
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My hubby was an enabler, and I was a bit nervous coming home from rehab. I knew I did NOT want a control freak around me that was monitoring my every thought and move but I also wanted someone that would not put up with any of my crap and maybe this is kinda sick but someone that would be strong when I wasn't feeling so strong in my early recovery. I did not want to be able to talk him into something or manipulate him. I wanted him to be strong for himself because I would respect him more and for me too.
When I mentioned dabbling in that other thread you have I was really talking about the codependent.not the addict, dabbling into her business, picking up her phone calls, meeting her all this is dabbling when NC is so desperately needed to regain perspective, balance and just as an addict has to stay away from drugs to get strong so does a codependent from his or her fix of maintaining some contact.
When I mentioned dabbling in that other thread you have I was really talking about the codependent.not the addict, dabbling into her business, picking up her phone calls, meeting her all this is dabbling when NC is so desperately needed to regain perspective, balance and just as an addict has to stay away from drugs to get strong so does a codependent from his or her fix of maintaining some contact.
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Steve, those of us who are embracing recovery right now, know all too well about this "People, places, things" concept. It has absolutely nothing to do with your past before her drug use.. you have been absolutely enmeshed in her current life full of drugs, prostitution, and whatever else you've not shared. Those of us in recovery have to get rid of all "people, places, things" that remind us of that life, so as never to return to it.
A few of the first people I got rid of? My dealers, my using buddies, and the friends who were in my life during the time I was using. I needed a CLEAN slate, start fresh.. nothing could be in my life, during my recovery that reminded me of using. It was critical. If she ever recovers, it is LIKELY that she will have to go No Contact with YOU, because you're a detriment to her recovery.
I just wanted to explain that part, everyone else here has explained everything else pretty good, a few times.. .and honestly.. over and over and over again.
You'll do what you want.. of course. Even if that is hurting her in the end. That is sad for both of you. I hope you find peace with yourself at some point.
A few of the first people I got rid of? My dealers, my using buddies, and the friends who were in my life during the time I was using. I needed a CLEAN slate, start fresh.. nothing could be in my life, during my recovery that reminded me of using. It was critical. If she ever recovers, it is LIKELY that she will have to go No Contact with YOU, because you're a detriment to her recovery.
I just wanted to explain that part, everyone else here has explained everything else pretty good, a few times.. .and honestly.. over and over and over again.
You'll do what you want.. of course. Even if that is hurting her in the end. That is sad for both of you. I hope you find peace with yourself at some point.
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chino- it does scare me. i am scared of doing the wrong thing and i am scared of doing the right thing.
meditation-
My hubby was an enabler, and I was a bit nervous coming home from rehab. I knew I did NOT want a control freak around me that was monitoring my every thought and move but I also wanted someone that would not put up with any of my crap and maybe this is kinda sick but someone that would be strong when I wasn't feeling so strong in my early recovery. I did not want to be able to talk him into something or manipulate him. I wanted him to be strong for himself because I would respect him more and for me too
this is something her and i have even talked about. and even though i am weak many times, there are some things i will not bend with. if she gets clean, there is no way in the world i would enable her use. i told her she could be honest about having a relapse, but that in no way would i have any part of contributing to it. she thanked me in advance for that.
i dont know, i am just afraid of letting go, even though holding on may be bad too. her and i talked about this stuff a couple times. of course she is active, so she may say anythnig agreeable. but i told her my concerns about the enabling i have done. she said that she sees it that i only did the best icould do to try to keep her off the streets, that she knows i did what i did out of love for her and that i tried my best to help. i said that it could be that if she gets cleans she would see me as an enabler and associate me with using, she said she sees me as trying to be as strong as i can for her and that she associates me as trying hard to help her and associates me with the good times before this happend. and lastly, she said how important it has been to her for me to have stayed in her life during this. that she was especially thankful i saw her again after she messed up and that i didn't hate her for it. now maybe thats all bs and i am duped again. i dont know how to know.
she's told me a lot of what has gone on. i know a lot of detail, but i am almost 100% sure i dont know everything. up to this very moment. but i dont pry, as i am not the counsellor.
i see the value of living my life apart from this. it is healthy for me and it serves as an example to her. one day at a time i suppose.
meditation-
My hubby was an enabler, and I was a bit nervous coming home from rehab. I knew I did NOT want a control freak around me that was monitoring my every thought and move but I also wanted someone that would not put up with any of my crap and maybe this is kinda sick but someone that would be strong when I wasn't feeling so strong in my early recovery. I did not want to be able to talk him into something or manipulate him. I wanted him to be strong for himself because I would respect him more and for me too
this is something her and i have even talked about. and even though i am weak many times, there are some things i will not bend with. if she gets clean, there is no way in the world i would enable her use. i told her she could be honest about having a relapse, but that in no way would i have any part of contributing to it. she thanked me in advance for that.
i dont know, i am just afraid of letting go, even though holding on may be bad too. her and i talked about this stuff a couple times. of course she is active, so she may say anythnig agreeable. but i told her my concerns about the enabling i have done. she said that she sees it that i only did the best icould do to try to keep her off the streets, that she knows i did what i did out of love for her and that i tried my best to help. i said that it could be that if she gets cleans she would see me as an enabler and associate me with using, she said she sees me as trying to be as strong as i can for her and that she associates me as trying hard to help her and associates me with the good times before this happend. and lastly, she said how important it has been to her for me to have stayed in her life during this. that she was especially thankful i saw her again after she messed up and that i didn't hate her for it. now maybe thats all bs and i am duped again. i dont know how to know.
she's told me a lot of what has gone on. i know a lot of detail, but i am almost 100% sure i dont know everything. up to this very moment. but i dont pry, as i am not the counsellor.
i see the value of living my life apart from this. it is healthy for me and it serves as an example to her. one day at a time i suppose.
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Originally Posted by steve1840 
It is one thing to say you care about someone; it is another to sit down and take the time to listen carefully.
thank you tb. i am trying to listen. i hear things, but something else takes over my thoughts.
since you won't leave her be now... you are becoming more of an obstacle than a help
this is what i need explained to me. i don't understand how i am not letting her be. i don't preach or lecture her. i don't stand in the way of what she does.
when an addict says they will quit but still dabbles around with the drugs it infuriates those trying to get the addict help........ but there comes a time when the addict has to stop playing around and stop saying things and making promises and basically lying to themselves about how bad it is... it comes down to action... stopping the addiction no matter how painful it is
this seems to be the situation. there is dabbling, perhaps more than dabbling. it does not infuriate me though. i wonder whether she lies to herself about how bad it is and i do hope she gets to the point where she will not want to do anything anymore.
i guess i am credulous as well. she talks to me about things and wants to know what i think about things. some of what she tells me, i might not believe at first, but then i take her word for it (like i said earlier about not wanting to not believe someone).
i wish she quit all drugs use, but i at least know i cannot make that happen. i want to believe that she'll be able to get on her feet and repair her life. i was reading a book last night that hit on one of my issues: it is about us detaching or leaving them and them getting better. the concern is that after leaving them, they get better, but see that us leaving was an end to the relationship, so they move on to someone else.
i know i am basically standing on the sideline waiting. again, maybe i am gullible in that i believe her whne she says that she does want to be wit hme whe nshe gets better. so i guess i just wait. maybe its not healthy. maybe i am addicted to her. i feel then it is unfair of me to just leave her if what she says is true, about her loving me, but not having to work on herself. part of me feels i could say- you work on yourself and get better, when you are ready i'll be there
i know i was getting better with less contact. but now that she is making some attempt at changing things, i have the feeling that i am leaving at the wrong time. i am afraid of leaving when she may need the support of a friend during this. i know i don't think about myself. all i get concerned about is hurting her. i don't know how to be different.
i may be in this funk in part because my folks just had to come up from the south because my dad has to undergo major surgery this coming tuesday. we'll be in the hospital for a week with a 4-6 week recouperation period. there's too much i am trying to balance right now.
thank you tb. i am trying to listen. i hear things, but something else takes over my thoughts.
since you won't leave her be now... you are becoming more of an obstacle than a help
this is what i need explained to me. i don't understand how i am not letting her be. i don't preach or lecture her. i don't stand in the way of what she does.
when an addict says they will quit but still dabbles around with the drugs it infuriates those trying to get the addict help........ but there comes a time when the addict has to stop playing around and stop saying things and making promises and basically lying to themselves about how bad it is... it comes down to action... stopping the addiction no matter how painful it is
this seems to be the situation. there is dabbling, perhaps more than dabbling. it does not infuriate me though. i wonder whether she lies to herself about how bad it is and i do hope she gets to the point where she will not want to do anything anymore.
i guess i am credulous as well. she talks to me about things and wants to know what i think about things. some of what she tells me, i might not believe at first, but then i take her word for it (like i said earlier about not wanting to not believe someone).
i wish she quit all drugs use, but i at least know i cannot make that happen. i want to believe that she'll be able to get on her feet and repair her life. i was reading a book last night that hit on one of my issues: it is about us detaching or leaving them and them getting better. the concern is that after leaving them, they get better, but see that us leaving was an end to the relationship, so they move on to someone else.
i know i am basically standing on the sideline waiting. again, maybe i am gullible in that i believe her whne she says that she does want to be wit hme whe nshe gets better. so i guess i just wait. maybe its not healthy. maybe i am addicted to her. i feel then it is unfair of me to just leave her if what she says is true, about her loving me, but not having to work on herself. part of me feels i could say- you work on yourself and get better, when you are ready i'll be there
i know i was getting better with less contact. but now that she is making some attempt at changing things, i have the feeling that i am leaving at the wrong time. i am afraid of leaving when she may need the support of a friend during this. i know i don't think about myself. all i get concerned about is hurting her. i don't know how to be different.
i may be in this funk in part because my folks just had to come up from the south because my dad has to undergo major surgery this coming tuesday. we'll be in the hospital for a week with a 4-6 week recouperation period. there's too much i am trying to balance right now.
I have a Brooklyn Bridge I'd like to sell to you. Interested?
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kiki-
depends on the price. i admit i am naive, gullible, a sucker, too trusting, all that stuff when it come to this. part of me wants to beleive her, part of me doesnt. i know the saying about how to know when an addict is lieing? but how do you know when an addict isnt lieing? i cant see what the benefit is in stringing me along. no money. no ride. so, then i believe her. or the fantasy.
depends on the price. i admit i am naive, gullible, a sucker, too trusting, all that stuff when it come to this. part of me wants to beleive her, part of me doesnt. i know the saying about how to know when an addict is lieing? but how do you know when an addict isnt lieing? i cant see what the benefit is in stringing me along. no money. no ride. so, then i believe her. or the fantasy.
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She says you did the best you could because for now that is what she sees. She doesn't know what a healthy life looks like so she isn't in any position to figure out who is good for her or not.
In treatment/recovery, she will learn that maybe some of what you did was not the best thing and she will learn from her program how to live a life free of people who knowingly or unknowingly enabled. She will get the tools to be able to discern between people who are healthy for her and those who are not. Not possible to ask a unhealthy person to figure out who is healthy for them or not because her point of view while using is skewed towards people who are satisfying her need for the drug.
You can listen to what the addict under the influence says or listen to the sober, knowledgeable folks here about how she will respond to you when she is clean. Any recovery program will make her look at everyone in her life far differently than she sees them now.
No one can say how she will exactly treat you afterwards but going by her level of sickness and your enmeshment with her at the height of her addiction, it doesn't bode well for your future involvement in her living a life of recovery. UNLESS you can detach now.
In treatment/recovery, she will learn that maybe some of what you did was not the best thing and she will learn from her program how to live a life free of people who knowingly or unknowingly enabled. She will get the tools to be able to discern between people who are healthy for her and those who are not. Not possible to ask a unhealthy person to figure out who is healthy for them or not because her point of view while using is skewed towards people who are satisfying her need for the drug.
You can listen to what the addict under the influence says or listen to the sober, knowledgeable folks here about how she will respond to you when she is clean. Any recovery program will make her look at everyone in her life far differently than she sees them now.
No one can say how she will exactly treat you afterwards but going by her level of sickness and your enmeshment with her at the height of her addiction, it doesn't bode well for your future involvement in her living a life of recovery. UNLESS you can detach now.
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You can listen to what the addict under the influence says or listen to the sober, knowledgeable folks here about how she will respond to you when she is clean. Any recovery program will make her look at everyone in her life far differently than she sees them now.
this makes so much sense and when i talk to her, i wonder if it is the high her talking or not. this week i have wondered if her intake has gone down as much as she says. i think, well maybe she is getting there by doing less. i know that any use is bad. is there no sort of gearing up to quit?
i know there is no holding back with responses to what i ask sometimes, but, am i just totally, andi mean totally blind? or is there any possibility of there being truth in her?
this makes so much sense and when i talk to her, i wonder if it is the high her talking or not. this week i have wondered if her intake has gone down as much as she says. i think, well maybe she is getting there by doing less. i know that any use is bad. is there no sort of gearing up to quit?
i know there is no holding back with responses to what i ask sometimes, but, am i just totally, andi mean totally blind? or is there any possibility of there being truth in her?
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The first step of detaching, Grasshopper, is to not try to make sense of what the addict is doing or saying.
Whether or not the addict lies or what they are doing on a particular day or what she had for breakfast doesn't change the reality: she is an addict who is not seeking treatment.
The madness starts to seep in when you try to make sense out of people who are not even speaking the same language. So ok, maybe she is telling you some truths but it is Addictese.
Whether or not the addict lies or what they are doing on a particular day or what she had for breakfast doesn't change the reality: she is an addict who is not seeking treatment.
The madness starts to seep in when you try to make sense out of people who are not even speaking the same language. So ok, maybe she is telling you some truths but it is Addictese.
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Originally Posted by steve1840
kiki-
depends on the price. i admit i am naive, gullible, a sucker, too trusting, all that stuff when it come to this. part of me wants to beleive her, part of me doesnt. i know the saying about how to know when an addict is lieing? but how do you know when an addict isnt lieing? i cant see what the benefit is in stringing me along. no money. no ride. so, then i believe her. or the fantasy.
depends on the price. i admit i am naive, gullible, a sucker, too trusting, all that stuff when it come to this. part of me wants to beleive her, part of me doesnt. i know the saying about how to know when an addict is lieing? but how do you know when an addict isnt lieing? i cant see what the benefit is in stringing me along. no money. no ride. so, then i believe her. or the fantasy.
just kidding Steve. I know the feeling sucks. And in the end, it will be what it will be.Let me just share a story. I had a friend long long time ago. She had just moved to the USA from Ireland and was smart, happy, beautiful, best friend. When I met her she didn't even smoke cigarettes. We were both in our late teens and started partying and experimenting with a lot of drugs.
Somehow, she managed to get on the "highway" of drug use to the point where she started prostituting to feed her habit. This all happened over a period of a few years. I saw her less and less but heard more and more of what she was becoming. My heart ached for her. One of our mutual friends (who came from a wealthy family) and had access to plenty money fell in love with her head over heals.
Like her, when I first met him, he barely even smoked ciggs. let alone what they both eventually were doing. She kept him at bay, because she knew how much he loved her and would do anything for her. She even admitted that to me one day. But even his money was not enough for her heroine/cocaine/alcohol addiction. She kept on being a prostitute. I remember her telling me one day how she just got very expensive boots. I asked her where she got the money cause I knew she didn't have a job. She just said "Oh, Simon bought them for me".
One day I talked to "Simon" and asked him why does he keep on being with her? He had become a heroin addict just like her. He said "because I love her and want to be wherever she is and if that means suffering with her, I want to be there".
I had eventually moved out of state to get away from all that and I didn't want to die.
It wasn't long after, that I heard she died from a seizure on a corner street at night while trying to hook up.
This was over 25 yrs ago and I still remember it like yesterday.
She was the kind of girl that you couldn't help but love. She was pretty, funny, kind. But she didn't make it past her teens.
I don't have an aswer of how all this spiraled into such horrible oblivion, but it did. I guess there's a point of no return sometimes for some people.
I'm still sad about her. THere's nothing that I could have done to help her because even the person who could have helped her "Simon" got sucked into her world and decided he'd rather be there with her, then be alive and healthy somewhere else.
Make your choice now because you'll live or die with it later.
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sometimes i have been afraid of becoming "simon" but i dont think i could go that far.
my older cousin was an addict since 17 and has done it all, is turning 50 in jail and gets out january after a 3yr stint. she is finally clean.
a younger relative or sorts also started at 17. she's now 22 and in really bad shape doing all that the others have done.
i don't want to give up on my friend, i don't want to lose faith in her, and i dont want her to think i gave up or lost faith.
i guess i dont know how to tell the difference if they are lying or being truthful.
i do understand what everyone menas by someone really embracing recovery and i know that she is not doing that yet. i think she is looking for a short cut, or does not want to surrender to anyone or any program. that is an obstacle in her. i think she thinks she can do it alone.
my older cousin was an addict since 17 and has done it all, is turning 50 in jail and gets out january after a 3yr stint. she is finally clean.
a younger relative or sorts also started at 17. she's now 22 and in really bad shape doing all that the others have done.
i don't want to give up on my friend, i don't want to lose faith in her, and i dont want her to think i gave up or lost faith.
i guess i dont know how to tell the difference if they are lying or being truthful.
i do understand what everyone menas by someone really embracing recovery and i know that she is not doing that yet. i think she is looking for a short cut, or does not want to surrender to anyone or any program. that is an obstacle in her. i think she thinks she can do it alone.
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