trying to stay afloat
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
the pain stops
i just found this to share:
The Pain Stops: when you stop looking at the person you love as the person you love, and you begin to see them, not as a partner, a lover, or a best friend, but as a human being with the strengths and weaknesses and even the core of a child.
The Pain Stops: when you begin to accept that what you would do in a circumstance is not what they would do, and that no matter how much you try, they have to learn their own lessons, and they have to touch the stove when it's hot, just as you did, to learn that it is much better when it is cold.
The Pain Stops: when your longing for them gets slowly replaced by a desire to get away, when making love to them no longer makes you feel cherished, when you find yourself tired of waiting for the moments where the good will truly outweigh the bad, and when at the end of the day you can't count on their arms for comfort.
The Pain Stops: when you start to look inward and decide whether their presence is a gift or a curse, and whether when you need them, they cause more heartache than bliss.
The Pain Stops: when you realize that you deserve more than they offer and stop blaming them for being less than you wish. When the smile of a stranger seems more inviting and kind, and you remember what it's like to feel beautiful, and you remember how long it has been since your lover whispered something in your ear that only the two of you would know.
The Pain Stops: when you forgive them for their faults and forgive yourself for staying so long. When you know that you tried harder than you ever tried before, and you know in your heart that love should not be so much work.
The Pain Stops: when you start to look in the mirror and like who you see, and know that leaving them or losing them is no reflection of your beauty or your worth.
The Pain Stops: when the promise of a new tomorrow is just enough to start replacing the emptiness in your heart, and you start dreaming again of who you used to be and who you will become.
The Pain Stops: when you say goodbye to what never really was, and accept that somewhere in the fog you may or may not have been loved back. And you promise yourself never again to lay in arms that don't know how to cherish the kindness in your heart.
The Pain Stops: When you are ready. .
i am in denial about the stuff in bold. i refuse to believe that it never was and that i was not loved back.
i think my head is going to explode today
The Pain Stops: when you stop looking at the person you love as the person you love, and you begin to see them, not as a partner, a lover, or a best friend, but as a human being with the strengths and weaknesses and even the core of a child.
The Pain Stops: when you begin to accept that what you would do in a circumstance is not what they would do, and that no matter how much you try, they have to learn their own lessons, and they have to touch the stove when it's hot, just as you did, to learn that it is much better when it is cold.
The Pain Stops: when your longing for them gets slowly replaced by a desire to get away, when making love to them no longer makes you feel cherished, when you find yourself tired of waiting for the moments where the good will truly outweigh the bad, and when at the end of the day you can't count on their arms for comfort.
The Pain Stops: when you start to look inward and decide whether their presence is a gift or a curse, and whether when you need them, they cause more heartache than bliss.
The Pain Stops: when you realize that you deserve more than they offer and stop blaming them for being less than you wish. When the smile of a stranger seems more inviting and kind, and you remember what it's like to feel beautiful, and you remember how long it has been since your lover whispered something in your ear that only the two of you would know.
The Pain Stops: when you forgive them for their faults and forgive yourself for staying so long. When you know that you tried harder than you ever tried before, and you know in your heart that love should not be so much work.
The Pain Stops: when you start to look in the mirror and like who you see, and know that leaving them or losing them is no reflection of your beauty or your worth.
The Pain Stops: when the promise of a new tomorrow is just enough to start replacing the emptiness in your heart, and you start dreaming again of who you used to be and who you will become.
The Pain Stops: when you say goodbye to what never really was, and accept that somewhere in the fog you may or may not have been loved back. And you promise yourself never again to lay in arms that don't know how to cherish the kindness in your heart.
The Pain Stops: When you are ready. .
i am in denial about the stuff in bold. i refuse to believe that it never was and that i was not loved back.
i think my head is going to explode today
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 138
Steve...you were (are) loved. Im sure parts of the relationship were, are real and deep! Some Addicts are very, very, needy and passionate. They may even feel deeper than most people. I believe the addicts in my life love me deeply. I believe that they cant deal with their profound feelings of pain, loss, love whatever the way most people can therefor they use drugs to numb them selves. I also think that codies like us are similar with being needy and wanting the "high" that these people give us with their passion for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are addicted to them and they are addicted to everything!
The thing is steve is that you have to decide whether this addictive and sick relationship is what you want. If you did then you wouldnt be here. I just hope that you are protecting yourself in the meantime.
The thing is steve is that you have to decide whether this addictive and sick relationship is what you want. If you did then you wouldnt be here. I just hope that you are protecting yourself in the meantime.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Mine did not love me in any way that was real enough to make a difference. For him or for me.
Nor was my "love" enough to make a difference. For him or for me.
I am in a loving relationship now. It doesn't bear any resemblence to the hurtful and hurting life I lived for 5 years more or less.
Nor was my "love" enough to make a difference. For him or for me.
I am in a loving relationship now. It doesn't bear any resemblence to the hurtful and hurting life I lived for 5 years more or less.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
I thnk you actually may be starting to see what some have been saying and that is, you want to feel needed by her because if you don't, then she won't have much to do with you? My sense is that you are starting to realize this and that is where the pain comes from.
I bet she has no idea you are feeling this much agony over her. And if she has some idea, but still chooses to do things that are tearing you up, what does that tell you?
I bet she has no idea you are feeling this much agony over her. And if she has some idea, but still chooses to do things that are tearing you up, what does that tell you?
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,741
Steve, Many of the questions and comments your making you have made before are you keeping a journal? Maybe you could go back and read the things you sorted through before and hopefully get a new perspective again.
I feel your pain it is intense. I hope you can get back to where you were, I know that at anytime I could relapse and the thought of that scares me. Well honestly when I say relapse I mean start at square one. I know it happens to the best of us after all we are only humans.
I feel your pain it is intense. I hope you can get back to where you were, I know that at anytime I could relapse and the thought of that scares me. Well honestly when I say relapse I mean start at square one. I know it happens to the best of us after all we are only humans.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Steve,
You have a disease. It's curable but you are choosing to stay mired in it and repeat the same pattern over and over and over and over and over...
This has nothing to do with her.
This has to do with your illness.
If you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you have to do is back away from the shovel! You haven't done that yet.
How are you going to get well Steve? Do you even want to at this point?? It doesn't seem like it to me. Do you have any personal or professional goals that you are working towards? Or is this some sick nightmare that envelops the majority of your time and energy? You are what could be considered a "functioning" addict, I think. You manage to go to work everyday, but under closer examination, your life is completely out of control. The disease is progressive Steve. It's just going to get worse. As long as you continue to feed your disease, your life will get worse and worse and worse until you have nothing left. Jails, Institutions, and Death.
Now, you could try making a list of your personal values are. And then set some goals for yourself to start living by them. But ahhhh. It seems like over the last year this has been recommended a million times, but you prefer to stay entrenched in thezzzthat she NEEDS you. That you HAVE to letter her care. Like this is going to make a difference somehow. That's the ego. That you have to let her know you will always be there. That's the ego talking. Forget it man. She knows and she's taking advantage of it. You are her patsy. That's your illness to deal with. It's like when a vampire bites into a human. He doesn't turn him into a vampire but now he owns the humans soul and controls him. She controls you like a vampire. You feed her with whats left of your soul. Until it's gone.
In the meantime, she could get better any time she wants to. But she doesn't want to. Because she enjoys the lifestyle too much. She's hooked.
Does your family know how sick you are over this drug addict/prosititute? God help you.
You have a disease. It's curable but you are choosing to stay mired in it and repeat the same pattern over and over and over and over and over...
This has nothing to do with her.
This has to do with your illness.
If you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you have to do is back away from the shovel! You haven't done that yet.
How are you going to get well Steve? Do you even want to at this point?? It doesn't seem like it to me. Do you have any personal or professional goals that you are working towards? Or is this some sick nightmare that envelops the majority of your time and energy? You are what could be considered a "functioning" addict, I think. You manage to go to work everyday, but under closer examination, your life is completely out of control. The disease is progressive Steve. It's just going to get worse. As long as you continue to feed your disease, your life will get worse and worse and worse until you have nothing left. Jails, Institutions, and Death.
Now, you could try making a list of your personal values are. And then set some goals for yourself to start living by them. But ahhhh. It seems like over the last year this has been recommended a million times, but you prefer to stay entrenched in thezzzthat she NEEDS you. That you HAVE to letter her care. Like this is going to make a difference somehow. That's the ego. That you have to let her know you will always be there. That's the ego talking. Forget it man. She knows and she's taking advantage of it. You are her patsy. That's your illness to deal with. It's like when a vampire bites into a human. He doesn't turn him into a vampire but now he owns the humans soul and controls him. She controls you like a vampire. You feed her with whats left of your soul. Until it's gone.
In the meantime, she could get better any time she wants to. But she doesn't want to. Because she enjoys the lifestyle too much. She's hooked.
Does your family know how sick you are over this drug addict/prosititute? God help you.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Steve))) - I can almost guarantee you that she will find someone else. It happened with all 3 of my XABF's, though the last one never got another gf, professed to still love me (when he wrote me from jail), but I was done with that sick relationship. I'm pretty sure he still had "girls" around and with him.
I had listened to what people said, here, and I took baby steps..NO relationship, whatsoever, with another guy until I learned how to love myself first; find people who understand me, and have enough guts to tell it to me straight...people who have BTDT and moved on; reach out to others with my ES&H; go back to school; do what I can to get myself out of the financial pit I'd gotten myself into.
Other than the finances, I've done that, but I had to walk through fear to get here. I had to let go of thinking I could save ANYONE, unless it's a helpless animal, and even then I can't take every stray home, but I've found a way to contribute food to shelters without costing me a cent.
I've had low self esteem for as long as I can remember...still do, to some extent, but I'm getting better because I've pushed myself to do things I thought I couldn't. That includes walking away from a man I loved. Walking away from HIS sickness, OUR sickness together, and learning to work on my OWN damned sickness.
Yes, it's entirely okay to walk away from someone you think is trying to get better. It make take her years to actually do all that's required. In the meantime, she's got some other man, putting her up for a month, telling you "it's not what you think". See? She already FOUND someone else to take care of her. Didn't take her long, at all, and yet you're still pining away from her. You haven't even called it quits, and she has someone else. Why do you even question whether she'll replace you?
I've told you this, before, too. The men I was attracted to, even loved, when I was using? I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole, today. THEY were just as messed up as I was. THEY allowed me to do whatever I did and didn't call me on it, or if they did, they didn't stick to any boundaries. Every one of them needed their ego's stroked just way too much...they didn't have enough belief in themselves, had to get it from me (or other gf's). That just turns me off, today. I don't even want them as friends (though one is dead) because they're too dysfunctional. I don't care if the other two have been clean/sober since I last saw them, they had too many issues.
So, think about it. If you keep doing what you're doing, you're going to get sicker and more of the same. If she were to suddenly embrace recovery, 100%, and YOU don't do anything about YOUR issues...her recovery will spur her toward healthy men, but not for a long time (if she's really working recovery because she'll be too busy working on herself).
You're in a no-win situation, unless you start working on your own issues. Some people, here, have come from absolutely horrid childhoods, codie relationships, and yet...have embraced their own recovery and are amazing people today..many in really healthy relationships.
You're the only one holding yourself back. At some point, if you really want to get better, you'll step past the fear and do something.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I had listened to what people said, here, and I took baby steps..NO relationship, whatsoever, with another guy until I learned how to love myself first; find people who understand me, and have enough guts to tell it to me straight...people who have BTDT and moved on; reach out to others with my ES&H; go back to school; do what I can to get myself out of the financial pit I'd gotten myself into.
Other than the finances, I've done that, but I had to walk through fear to get here. I had to let go of thinking I could save ANYONE, unless it's a helpless animal, and even then I can't take every stray home, but I've found a way to contribute food to shelters without costing me a cent.
I've had low self esteem for as long as I can remember...still do, to some extent, but I'm getting better because I've pushed myself to do things I thought I couldn't. That includes walking away from a man I loved. Walking away from HIS sickness, OUR sickness together, and learning to work on my OWN damned sickness.
Yes, it's entirely okay to walk away from someone you think is trying to get better. It make take her years to actually do all that's required. In the meantime, she's got some other man, putting her up for a month, telling you "it's not what you think". See? She already FOUND someone else to take care of her. Didn't take her long, at all, and yet you're still pining away from her. You haven't even called it quits, and she has someone else. Why do you even question whether she'll replace you?
I've told you this, before, too. The men I was attracted to, even loved, when I was using? I wouldn't touch them with a 10-foot pole, today. THEY were just as messed up as I was. THEY allowed me to do whatever I did and didn't call me on it, or if they did, they didn't stick to any boundaries. Every one of them needed their ego's stroked just way too much...they didn't have enough belief in themselves, had to get it from me (or other gf's). That just turns me off, today. I don't even want them as friends (though one is dead) because they're too dysfunctional. I don't care if the other two have been clean/sober since I last saw them, they had too many issues.
So, think about it. If you keep doing what you're doing, you're going to get sicker and more of the same. If she were to suddenly embrace recovery, 100%, and YOU don't do anything about YOUR issues...her recovery will spur her toward healthy men, but not for a long time (if she's really working recovery because she'll be too busy working on herself).
You're in a no-win situation, unless you start working on your own issues. Some people, here, have come from absolutely horrid childhoods, codie relationships, and yet...have embraced their own recovery and are amazing people today..many in really healthy relationships.
You're the only one holding yourself back. At some point, if you really want to get better, you'll step past the fear and do something.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 138
This is what so many of us need to hear, that we are just as sick as the addicts!!! I think we put our selves on a pedestal as if we are sooo much better becuase we are not addicted to drugs and or alcohol. But we are addicts... we have such low self worth that we addict our selves to people. The only people that will tolerate out needy addictions are needy addicts. Healthy people will run for the hills from us. I dont want to be this person any more!!!!!! Thanks for saying it like it is guys!!!!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
i just don't know what the truth is and that drives me crazy.
i think you KNOW the truth, you just can't HANDLE the truth.
(one of my favorite lines from the movie, A FEW GOOD MEN.
she is an addict, doing what addicts do.
what other proof do you need that you can not help her in any way, shape or form?
i, too, am 51 years old and it took until i was forty to get it.
that i deserved honor, loyalty, respect, support and admiration.
i could not raise a grown man who did not want to grow up.
give up drugs and alcohol and live a life, not survive one chaotic moment at a time.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
Someone who doesn't need her to remain sick and needy to fulfill something in their own overblown ego?
if one feels that this is all about my overblown ego, that is your right. i would say that ego's come in all shapes and sizes and from all over the place. you cannot know a person merely from one-sided postings that are made while in a certain frame of mind. not everything can be answered with a one-liner. i have sincerely accepted and appreciated every reply i have received. even when i got bashed, i accepted that with an open mind. just because i may not be doing the 'right' thing at all times, does not mean that i do not appreciate the words. and because i have not been able to adhere to a prescribed course of action, does not mean i am not trying. some harsh lines have been laid out to me and i appriciate that because it makes me have to think tougher. and i respect that most of you all have already walked this path.
the above line to me. implies that i would be suffering from hardcore codependency in that i want/need her to remain sick and needy. whoa....at least send me a pm or something to get to know me more before putting that out there. maybe there are people like that, but that's not me. maybe there is some need to be needed at times, i'll accept that, but i in no way want her to stay sick and needy just to satisfy my overblown ego.
each set back i do see though that this is about me and what I am going to do. i feel much better today. having you in the back of my mind helps me. i guess you are my group, until i find the right one for me.
it seems to come down to having the courage to walk away or at least take a step back again. i feel good again, at least for today.
if one feels that this is all about my overblown ego, that is your right. i would say that ego's come in all shapes and sizes and from all over the place. you cannot know a person merely from one-sided postings that are made while in a certain frame of mind. not everything can be answered with a one-liner. i have sincerely accepted and appreciated every reply i have received. even when i got bashed, i accepted that with an open mind. just because i may not be doing the 'right' thing at all times, does not mean that i do not appreciate the words. and because i have not been able to adhere to a prescribed course of action, does not mean i am not trying. some harsh lines have been laid out to me and i appriciate that because it makes me have to think tougher. and i respect that most of you all have already walked this path.
the above line to me. implies that i would be suffering from hardcore codependency in that i want/need her to remain sick and needy. whoa....at least send me a pm or something to get to know me more before putting that out there. maybe there are people like that, but that's not me. maybe there is some need to be needed at times, i'll accept that, but i in no way want her to stay sick and needy just to satisfy my overblown ego.
each set back i do see though that this is about me and what I am going to do. i feel much better today. having you in the back of my mind helps me. i guess you are my group, until i find the right one for me.
it seems to come down to having the courage to walk away or at least take a step back again. i feel good again, at least for today.
The truth shall set you free
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5,267
What is detachment?
What are the negative effects not detaching?
How is detachment a control issue?
What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach?
How to Develop Detachment
Steps in Developing Detachment
What is detachment?
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.
What are the negative effects not detaching?
If you are unable to detach from people, places or things, then you:
* Will have people, places or things which become over-dependent on you.
* Run the risk of being manipulated to do things for people, at places or with things which you do not really want to do.
* Can become an obsessive "fix it" who needs to fix everything you perceive to be imperfect.
* Run the risk of performing tasks because of the intimidation you experience from people, places or things.
* Will most probably become powerless in the face of the demands of the people, places or things whom you have given the power to control you.
* Will be blind to the reality that the people, places or things which control you are the uncontrollables and unchangeables you need to let go of if you are to become a fully healthy, coping individual.
* Will be easily influenced by the perception of helplessness which these people, places or things project.
* Might become caught up with your idealistic need to make everything perfect for people, places or things important to you even if it means your own life becomes unhealthy.
* Run the risk of becoming out of control of yourself and experience greater low self-esteem as a result.
* Will most probably put off making a decision and following through on it, if you rationally recognize your relationship with a person, place or thing is unhealthy and the only recourse left is to get out of the relationship.
* Will be so driven by guilt and emotional dependence that the sickness in the relationship will worsen.
* Run the risk of losing your autonomy and independence and derive your value or worth solely from the unhealthy relationship you continue in with the unhealthy person, place or thing.
How is detachment a control issue?
Detachment is a control issue because:
* It is a way of de-powering the external "locus of control" issues in your life and a way to strengthen your internal "locus of control."
* If you are not able to detach emotionally or physically from a person, place or thing, then you are either profoundly under its control or it is under your control.
* The ability to "keep distance" emotionally or physically requires self-control and the inability to do so is a sign that you are "out of control."
* If you are not able to detach from another person, place or thing, you might be powerless over this behavior which is beyond your personal control.
* You might be mesmerized, brainwashed or psychically in a trance when you are in the presence of someone from whom you cannot detach.
* You might feel intimidated or coerced to stay deeply attached with someone for fear of great harm to yourself or that person if you don't remain so deeply involved.
* You might be an addicted caretaker, fixer or rescuer who cannot let go of a person, place or thing you believe cannot care for itself.
* You might be so manipulated by another's con, "helplessness," overdependency or "hooks" that you cannot leave them to solve their own problems.
* If you do not detach from people, places or things, you could be so busy trying to "control" them that you completely divert your attention from yourself and your own needs.
* By being "selfless" and "centered" on other people, you are really a controller trying to fix them to meet the image of your ideal for them.
* Although you will still have feelings for those persons, places and things from which you have become detached, you will have given them the freedom to become what they will be on their own merit, power, control and responsibility.
* It allows every person, place or thing with which you become involved to feel the sense of personal responsibility to become a unique, independent and autonomous being with no fear of retribution or rebuke if they don't please you by what they become.
What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach?
* If you should stop being involved, what will they do without you?
* They need you and that is enough to justify your continued involvement.
* What if they commit suicide because of your detachment? You must stay involved to avoid this.
* You would feel so guilty if anything bad should happen to them after you reduced your involvement with them.
* They are absolutely dependent on you at this point and to back off now would be a crime.
* You need them as much as they need you.
* You can't control yourself because everyday you promise yourself "today is the day" you will detach your feelings but you feel driven to them and their needs.
* They have so many problems, they need you.
* Being detached seems so cold and aloof. You can't be that way when you love and care for a person. It's either 100 percent all the way or no way at all.
* If you should let go of this relationship too soon, the other might change to be like the fantasy or dream you want them to be.
* How can being detached from them help them? It seems like you should do more to help them.
* Detachment sounds so final. It sounds so distant and non-reachable. You could never allow yourself to have a relationship where there is so much emotional distance between you and others. It seems so unnatural.
* You never want anybody in a relationship to be emotionally detached from you so why would you think it a good thing to do for others?
* The family that plays together stays together. It's all for one and one for all. Never do anything without including the significant others in your life.
* If one hurts in the system, we all hurt. You do not have a good relationship with others unless you share in their pain, hurt, suffering, problems and troubles.
* When they are in "trouble," how can you ignore their "pleas" for help? It seems cruel and inhuman.
* When you see people in trouble, confused and hurting, you must always get involved and try to help them solve the problems.
* When you meet people who are "helpless," you must step in to give them assistance, advice, support and direction.
* You should never question the costs, be they material, emotional or physical, when another is in dire need of help.
* You would rather forgo all the pleasures of this world in order to assist others to be happy and successful.
* You can never "give too much" when it comes to providing emotional support, comforting and care of those whom you love and cherish.
* No matter how badly your loved ones hurt and abuse you, you must always be forgiving and continue to extend your hand in help and support.
* Tough love is a cruel, inhuman and anti-loving philosophy of dealing with the troubled people in our lives and you should instead love them more when they are in trouble since "love" is the answer to all problems.
How to Develop Detachment
In order to become detached from a person, place or thing, you need to:
First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person, place or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or dependent on.
Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places or things which in the past you have given power to affect your emotional well-being.
Third: "Hand over" to your Higher Power the persons, places and things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot change on your own.
Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need" to fix, change, rescue or heal other persons, places and things.
Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick" and "unhealthy" to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal or rescue another person, place or thing if they do not want to get better nor see a need to change.
Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky clean" and a "role model" of health in order for another to recognize that there is something "wrong" with them that needs changing.
Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel.
Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.
Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are "sick" behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your relationship to persons, places and things.
Tenth: Accept that many people, places and things in your past and current life are "irrational," "unhealthy" and "toxic" influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.
Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.
Twelfth: Practice "letting go" of the need to correct, fix or make better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no control or power to change.
What are the negative effects not detaching?
How is detachment a control issue?
What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach?
How to Develop Detachment
Steps in Developing Detachment
What is detachment?
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.
What are the negative effects not detaching?
If you are unable to detach from people, places or things, then you:
* Will have people, places or things which become over-dependent on you.
* Run the risk of being manipulated to do things for people, at places or with things which you do not really want to do.
* Can become an obsessive "fix it" who needs to fix everything you perceive to be imperfect.
* Run the risk of performing tasks because of the intimidation you experience from people, places or things.
* Will most probably become powerless in the face of the demands of the people, places or things whom you have given the power to control you.
* Will be blind to the reality that the people, places or things which control you are the uncontrollables and unchangeables you need to let go of if you are to become a fully healthy, coping individual.
* Will be easily influenced by the perception of helplessness which these people, places or things project.
* Might become caught up with your idealistic need to make everything perfect for people, places or things important to you even if it means your own life becomes unhealthy.
* Run the risk of becoming out of control of yourself and experience greater low self-esteem as a result.
* Will most probably put off making a decision and following through on it, if you rationally recognize your relationship with a person, place or thing is unhealthy and the only recourse left is to get out of the relationship.
* Will be so driven by guilt and emotional dependence that the sickness in the relationship will worsen.
* Run the risk of losing your autonomy and independence and derive your value or worth solely from the unhealthy relationship you continue in with the unhealthy person, place or thing.
How is detachment a control issue?
Detachment is a control issue because:
* It is a way of de-powering the external "locus of control" issues in your life and a way to strengthen your internal "locus of control."
* If you are not able to detach emotionally or physically from a person, place or thing, then you are either profoundly under its control or it is under your control.
* The ability to "keep distance" emotionally or physically requires self-control and the inability to do so is a sign that you are "out of control."
* If you are not able to detach from another person, place or thing, you might be powerless over this behavior which is beyond your personal control.
* You might be mesmerized, brainwashed or psychically in a trance when you are in the presence of someone from whom you cannot detach.
* You might feel intimidated or coerced to stay deeply attached with someone for fear of great harm to yourself or that person if you don't remain so deeply involved.
* You might be an addicted caretaker, fixer or rescuer who cannot let go of a person, place or thing you believe cannot care for itself.
* You might be so manipulated by another's con, "helplessness," overdependency or "hooks" that you cannot leave them to solve their own problems.
* If you do not detach from people, places or things, you could be so busy trying to "control" them that you completely divert your attention from yourself and your own needs.
* By being "selfless" and "centered" on other people, you are really a controller trying to fix them to meet the image of your ideal for them.
* Although you will still have feelings for those persons, places and things from which you have become detached, you will have given them the freedom to become what they will be on their own merit, power, control and responsibility.
* It allows every person, place or thing with which you become involved to feel the sense of personal responsibility to become a unique, independent and autonomous being with no fear of retribution or rebuke if they don't please you by what they become.
What irrational thinking leads to an inability to detach?
* If you should stop being involved, what will they do without you?
* They need you and that is enough to justify your continued involvement.
* What if they commit suicide because of your detachment? You must stay involved to avoid this.
* You would feel so guilty if anything bad should happen to them after you reduced your involvement with them.
* They are absolutely dependent on you at this point and to back off now would be a crime.
* You need them as much as they need you.
* You can't control yourself because everyday you promise yourself "today is the day" you will detach your feelings but you feel driven to them and their needs.
* They have so many problems, they need you.
* Being detached seems so cold and aloof. You can't be that way when you love and care for a person. It's either 100 percent all the way or no way at all.
* If you should let go of this relationship too soon, the other might change to be like the fantasy or dream you want them to be.
* How can being detached from them help them? It seems like you should do more to help them.
* Detachment sounds so final. It sounds so distant and non-reachable. You could never allow yourself to have a relationship where there is so much emotional distance between you and others. It seems so unnatural.
* You never want anybody in a relationship to be emotionally detached from you so why would you think it a good thing to do for others?
* The family that plays together stays together. It's all for one and one for all. Never do anything without including the significant others in your life.
* If one hurts in the system, we all hurt. You do not have a good relationship with others unless you share in their pain, hurt, suffering, problems and troubles.
* When they are in "trouble," how can you ignore their "pleas" for help? It seems cruel and inhuman.
* When you see people in trouble, confused and hurting, you must always get involved and try to help them solve the problems.
* When you meet people who are "helpless," you must step in to give them assistance, advice, support and direction.
* You should never question the costs, be they material, emotional or physical, when another is in dire need of help.
* You would rather forgo all the pleasures of this world in order to assist others to be happy and successful.
* You can never "give too much" when it comes to providing emotional support, comforting and care of those whom you love and cherish.
* No matter how badly your loved ones hurt and abuse you, you must always be forgiving and continue to extend your hand in help and support.
* Tough love is a cruel, inhuman and anti-loving philosophy of dealing with the troubled people in our lives and you should instead love them more when they are in trouble since "love" is the answer to all problems.
How to Develop Detachment
In order to become detached from a person, place or thing, you need to:
First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person, place or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or dependent on.
Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places or things which in the past you have given power to affect your emotional well-being.
Third: "Hand over" to your Higher Power the persons, places and things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot change on your own.
Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need" to fix, change, rescue or heal other persons, places and things.
Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick" and "unhealthy" to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal or rescue another person, place or thing if they do not want to get better nor see a need to change.
Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky clean" and a "role model" of health in order for another to recognize that there is something "wrong" with them that needs changing.
Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel.
Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.
Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are "sick" behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your relationship to persons, places and things.
Tenth: Accept that many people, places and things in your past and current life are "irrational," "unhealthy" and "toxic" influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.
Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.
Twelfth: Practice "letting go" of the need to correct, fix or make better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no control or power to change.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
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Steve,
You are suffering from hardcore codependency.
Here is why people are saying what they are: if all you have heard on this board (from myself included) is to leave her alone because you are actually an obstacle towards her finding recovery, then the conclusion is drawn that as long as she is ill, Steve gets his needs met. Needs that are not healthy. Not healthy for either of you. That IS hardcore codependency.
Do you do so consciously? No, I don't think so, I honestly think you feel you can help her or be there but you are not. You are an obstacle and that is where it gets frustrating for those of us trying to help you because you don't seem to believe that you are.
Many that have posted are recovered addicts and if they tell you to leave her be, how much more insight do you need then from folks that have been there? They get where she is and what will ultimately help her.
Even when people tell you that at this rate you will NOT be in her life when she does get into recovery, even with that risk, you still want to be there. Ok so then be there but enjoy it because when she gets into recovery, you will not be in her life and I can guarantee that. Recovery involves a thorough housecleaning of people who are unhealthy for the addict and since you won't leave her be now, you probably will cross her boundaries in recovery. That would be very dangerous so she'd have to stay away from you.
All your most wonderful motives you have won't change the fact that you are becoming more of an obstacle than a help.
It is that simple. Your love for her is not not healthy for her because it prolongs her using, delays her getting help and distracts her from looking inwards at how far she has fallen. It does all the opposite things you think it does.
If you love her, then you'd leave her alone. It sounds counterintuitive. Believe me I know this but it is called letting go WITH LOVE.
You are suffering from hardcore codependency.
Here is why people are saying what they are: if all you have heard on this board (from myself included) is to leave her alone because you are actually an obstacle towards her finding recovery, then the conclusion is drawn that as long as she is ill, Steve gets his needs met. Needs that are not healthy. Not healthy for either of you. That IS hardcore codependency.
Do you do so consciously? No, I don't think so, I honestly think you feel you can help her or be there but you are not. You are an obstacle and that is where it gets frustrating for those of us trying to help you because you don't seem to believe that you are.
Many that have posted are recovered addicts and if they tell you to leave her be, how much more insight do you need then from folks that have been there? They get where she is and what will ultimately help her.
Even when people tell you that at this rate you will NOT be in her life when she does get into recovery, even with that risk, you still want to be there. Ok so then be there but enjoy it because when she gets into recovery, you will not be in her life and I can guarantee that. Recovery involves a thorough housecleaning of people who are unhealthy for the addict and since you won't leave her be now, you probably will cross her boundaries in recovery. That would be very dangerous so she'd have to stay away from you.
All your most wonderful motives you have won't change the fact that you are becoming more of an obstacle than a help.
It is that simple. Your love for her is not not healthy for her because it prolongs her using, delays her getting help and distracts her from looking inwards at how far she has fallen. It does all the opposite things you think it does.
If you love her, then you'd leave her alone. It sounds counterintuitive. Believe me I know this but it is called letting go WITH LOVE.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
For myself as a recovering A I am about of the opinion it is easier to kick drugs than kick a codependency. When I decided that I was just over the pill popping and the withdrawls and the trashed life I quit. Walked away, stopped using, did not imbibe, partake get near talk to touch, feel, the drug. I did not go play with it sniff it, call it, ask it if I could give it a house a ride man I just left it alone and did it cold turkey.. just walked off from it. My life is so much better. I would lie if I said I had days that I did not want to give it a whirl, take it out for a spin, see if it still missed me or needed me but my peace and serenity is priceless, I would not go near it for anything right now.
A co dependent has to do the same thing. Walk away. when an addict says they will quit but still dabbles around with the drugs it infuriates those trying to get the addict help........ but there comes a time when the addict has to stop playing around and stop saying things and making promises and basically lying to themselves about how bad it is... it comes down to action... stopping the addiction no matter how painful it is, if that means cutting someone out, moving across town, blocking, going into federal witness whatever it means done done done with the addiction.
A co dependent has to do the same thing. Walk away. when an addict says they will quit but still dabbles around with the drugs it infuriates those trying to get the addict help........ but there comes a time when the addict has to stop playing around and stop saying things and making promises and basically lying to themselves about how bad it is... it comes down to action... stopping the addiction no matter how painful it is, if that means cutting someone out, moving across town, blocking, going into federal witness whatever it means done done done with the addiction.
The truth shall set you free
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5,267
Originally Posted by tjp613 
Maybe we ALL need to detach with love. Ahem.
It is one thing to say you care about someone; it is another to sit down and take the time to listen carefully. Instead of placing expectations on what people are saying, we place love in our heart when we are listening.
If others have given up on me when I was in active addiction, I wouldn't be here caring and sharing and giving back what was freely given to me.
TB
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
It is one thing to say you care about someone; it is another to sit down and take the time to listen carefully.
thank you tb. i am trying to listen. i hear things, but something else takes over my thoughts.
since you won't leave her be now... you are becoming more of an obstacle than a help
this is what i need explained to me. i don't understand how i am not letting her be. i don't preach or lecture her. i don't stand in the way of what she does.
when an addict says they will quit but still dabbles around with the drugs it infuriates those trying to get the addict help........ but there comes a time when the addict has to stop playing around and stop saying things and making promises and basically lying to themselves about how bad it is... it comes down to action... stopping the addiction no matter how painful it is
this seems to be the situation. there is dabbling, perhaps more than dabbling. it does not infuriate me though. i wonder whether she lies to herself about how bad it is and i do hope she gets to the point where she will not want to do anything anymore.
i guess i am credulous as well. she talks to me about things and wants to know what i think about things. some of what she tells me, i might not believe at first, but then i take her word for it (like i said earlier about not wanting to not believe someone).
i wish she quit all drugs use, but i at least know i cannot make that happen. i want to believe that she'll be able to get on her feet and repair her life. i was reading a book last night that hit on one of my issues: it is about us detaching or leaving them and them getting better. the concern is that after leaving them, they get better, but see that us leaving was an end to the relationship, so they move on to someone else.
i know i am basically standing on the sideline waiting. again, maybe i am gullible in that i believe her whne she says that she does want to be wit hme whe nshe gets better. so i guess i just wait. maybe its not healthy. maybe i am addicted to her. i feel then it is unfair of me to just leave her if what she says is true, about her loving me, but not having to work on herself. part of me feels i could say- you work on yourself and get better, when you are ready i'll be there
i know i was getting better with less contact. but now that she is making some attempt at changing things, i have the feeling that i am leaving at the wrong time. i am afraid of leaving when she may need the support of a friend during this. i know i don't think about myself. all i get concerned about is hurting her. i don't know how to be different.
i may be in this funk in part because my folks just had to come up from the south because my dad has to undergo major surgery this coming tuesday. we'll be in the hospital for a week with a 4-6 week recouperation period. there's too much i am trying to balance right now.
thank you tb. i am trying to listen. i hear things, but something else takes over my thoughts.
since you won't leave her be now... you are becoming more of an obstacle than a help
this is what i need explained to me. i don't understand how i am not letting her be. i don't preach or lecture her. i don't stand in the way of what she does.
when an addict says they will quit but still dabbles around with the drugs it infuriates those trying to get the addict help........ but there comes a time when the addict has to stop playing around and stop saying things and making promises and basically lying to themselves about how bad it is... it comes down to action... stopping the addiction no matter how painful it is
this seems to be the situation. there is dabbling, perhaps more than dabbling. it does not infuriate me though. i wonder whether she lies to herself about how bad it is and i do hope she gets to the point where she will not want to do anything anymore.
i guess i am credulous as well. she talks to me about things and wants to know what i think about things. some of what she tells me, i might not believe at first, but then i take her word for it (like i said earlier about not wanting to not believe someone).
i wish she quit all drugs use, but i at least know i cannot make that happen. i want to believe that she'll be able to get on her feet and repair her life. i was reading a book last night that hit on one of my issues: it is about us detaching or leaving them and them getting better. the concern is that after leaving them, they get better, but see that us leaving was an end to the relationship, so they move on to someone else.
i know i am basically standing on the sideline waiting. again, maybe i am gullible in that i believe her whne she says that she does want to be wit hme whe nshe gets better. so i guess i just wait. maybe its not healthy. maybe i am addicted to her. i feel then it is unfair of me to just leave her if what she says is true, about her loving me, but not having to work on herself. part of me feels i could say- you work on yourself and get better, when you are ready i'll be there
i know i was getting better with less contact. but now that she is making some attempt at changing things, i have the feeling that i am leaving at the wrong time. i am afraid of leaving when she may need the support of a friend during this. i know i don't think about myself. all i get concerned about is hurting her. i don't know how to be different.
i may be in this funk in part because my folks just had to come up from the south because my dad has to undergo major surgery this coming tuesday. we'll be in the hospital for a week with a 4-6 week recouperation period. there's too much i am trying to balance right now.
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lemme splain.. 
I can only speak for myself. I never see things as black or white, this OR that. There are so many shades in between for me. Letting go doesn't mean give up, it doesn't mean forever or keeping them out of your life forever, or even at all. It means to not try to step in when you feel that tug in your heart for their pain, as uncomfortable as it is to witness.
For me, I don't want to know of the danger he placed himself in when he was relapsed. When I heard I was glad I didn't know at the time because it would have really upset me and I probably would have tried to 'do' something as a reaction to how I felt rather than what was the best thing for him. My 'doing' something would have not allowed him to handle his problems on his own.
They are not helpless, there is a great deal of skill involved to living that life. They are causing messes and drama in their life that would be prevented if they stopped using/drinking. This realization can motivate them to stop. But if we clean up the messes, that realization is delayed. That is what I mean by 'obstacle'.
Codependents clean up messes because they feel helpless and by 'doing' something it gives them a false sense that they are helping. But it is in vain because that help does not push them towards seeking help, it can have the opposite effect. Why get help if someone else is there to pick up the slack of you not having income, a place to stay, food, etc. etc.
I can only speak for myself. I never see things as black or white, this OR that. There are so many shades in between for me. Letting go doesn't mean give up, it doesn't mean forever or keeping them out of your life forever, or even at all. It means to not try to step in when you feel that tug in your heart for their pain, as uncomfortable as it is to witness.
For me, I don't want to know of the danger he placed himself in when he was relapsed. When I heard I was glad I didn't know at the time because it would have really upset me and I probably would have tried to 'do' something as a reaction to how I felt rather than what was the best thing for him. My 'doing' something would have not allowed him to handle his problems on his own.
They are not helpless, there is a great deal of skill involved to living that life. They are causing messes and drama in their life that would be prevented if they stopped using/drinking. This realization can motivate them to stop. But if we clean up the messes, that realization is delayed. That is what I mean by 'obstacle'.
Codependents clean up messes because they feel helpless and by 'doing' something it gives them a false sense that they are helping. But it is in vain because that help does not push them towards seeking help, it can have the opposite effect. Why get help if someone else is there to pick up the slack of you not having income, a place to stay, food, etc. etc.
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