Awesome Post. Thank you for your response. You do seem to have experience most relevant to my situation and always appreciate your opinion on the matter.

I have no doubt her father will suffocate her, as he did the last time. She was taking 18 hours college classes, had AA meetings and Court meetings twice a week, community service, and a part time job she had to keep. No wonder..she relapsed..... I had to deal with all of her meetings and time restraints when we met. I openly accepted her schedule and her past without second thought.

I do agree with the whole finding her strength in something grounded format. This is one thing, I do stress. I emphasize the fact that she doesn't need me in anyway, it is simply one of life's little blessings on the side that makes the day more enjoyable. Nothing more, nothing less. We both acknowledge if I wasn't around, she could still "Make it' and be fine.

As far as they "walk away." I won't leave the picture. I think it's cowardly in all honesty. I would be more concerned with myself in that instance, which I know with what some people on this forum have lost, would always be the easiest choice, but for me, It's not an option, because I'm not being effected negatively enough to warrant it. I spend time with her in writing her, but that time just takes out of my internet time. Not much lost there. I may spend a few bucks on stamps and postage, but I spend a few bucks on fast food when I'm in a hurry.
I am stressed. I do admit that. It is a negative aspect I wish to be without, but if it wasn't this situation, another would arise. That's life.
Not to mention this entire situation has led me to this forum and several other venues, which have brought on plenty of understanding and wisdom is many ways. I'm easily more equipped and a better person simply for being led down this path of learning.

I suppose it's one of those... Is the cup half empty..or half full... deals.

I won't take any post offensively. I understand this is a touchy subject and everyone's situation is quite unique in various ways. I look forward to the information and opinions provided here. Thank You.

I also notice that there seems to be a stigma floating around towards Christianity a.k.a. "Bible Thumpers" around here. I can understand this as much as anything else. I can see it being a failed model of recovery for some.

When I said; "Walk away"! I don't mean leave the picture completely. I know she needs friends on the outside. You've provided a good source of the religion kind. She's going to need others in recovery from drugs/alcohol.

I'd hate to see her play you against her father's affections. It happens so much in familys. And with her being locked up right now, she'll do almost anything to get visitors and letters from the outside. Being in jail is NO fun. I've spent a few hours behind bars myself. Don't forget, I've also been away to basic training and AIT. So YES, those letters and packages meant a lot to me while I was away from my family.

Only being 22 years old is still a very young, impressionable age. Any attention from a good looking young man is always an excitement. Have you considered this fact is why she wants to keep you around and not the preaching you bring?

When is she suppose to get out of jail? You know she'll end up moving back in with daddy and the connection you two will be severed. I've lost a couple of GOOD friends to drugs and family reasons. I don't let it get me down or rule my life. I've moved on past these issues and wish them well. I'm happy with my life now and don't let negativeness come into. Life is too short to deal with others wanting to bring us down with them. I'm almost 51 and want to enjoy the rest of my life in peace.

TOD

Another Great Post. Thank You.

I know how important the letters and support are as well. I weight that every day when dealing with the situation. Right now there are more positives than negatives.
As far as the good-looking aspect. She doesn't get to see me, and it's winter, when she does, the only thing visible are my eyes from all the winter gear.
I have no doubt she likes someone SHE considers attractive giving her attention, we all do. She confesses to me as well, and made it apparent when we first met, that hispanic people weren't exactly her favorite. I kind of grew on her I suppose you could say. When it becomes obvious that that might be a negative aspect, I'll look into it, but as of now..we honestly almost only have contact through letters.
She won't be getting anything from me but letters, and maybe a book or two if the option becomes available.
I make the letter point, because...they are filled with love,support, and foundation building. We're not sending sexual articles to each other of any kind.
She can't really get anything from me at this point, but support.
She's looking at 2-3 years possibly with all the rehabilitation stops she's going to have to make before final release to probation.

I do realize her dad will do what he can to keep us apart. That is fine. That means she would have made it through, survived and hopefully grown by that time. Which is all I can ask for. If we are separated, it will be a hard pill to swallow, but not an impossible one, especially if I know she's happy and well off. How could I be upset..knowing someone I care for is in good hands?
I'm focused on taking care of me, and putting me in a position to one day take care of my family. I'm not focused on much else. God called me to this path.. If He calls her away, or me to another, I will continue to follow him. I do what I can, when I can..I don't control it..nor do I fear the lack of control, I fear missed opportunity.

Thank you for your time and advice.

NeverLetGo23: I wanted to share this story with you. It's been copied and pasted here. So forgive the arrows in the middle of all the sentences. Kind of reminds me of you.


For those of you who do not know Beth Moore, she is an> outstanding Bible teacher, writer of Bible studies, and is a> married mother of two daughters. This is one of her> experiences: > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------> > April 20, 2005, at the Airport in Knoxville , waiting to> board the plane, I had the Bible on my lap and was very> intent upon what I was doing. I'd had a marvelous> morning with the Lord. I say this because I want to tell you> it is a scary thing to have the Spirit of God really> working in you. > > You could end up doing some things you never would have> done otherwise. Life in the Spirit can be dangerous for> a thousand reasons, not the least of which is your> ego. > > I tried to keep from staring, but he was such a strange> sight. Humped over in a wheelchair, he was skin and> bones, dressed in clothes that obviously fit when he> was at least twenty pounds heavier. His knees protruded from> his trousers, and his shoulders looked like the coat> hanger was still in his shirt. His hands looked like> tangled masses of veins and bones. > > The strangest part of him was his hair and nails. Stringy,> gray hair hung well over his shoulders and down part of> his back. His fingernails were long, clean but> strangely out of place on an old man. > > I looked down at my Bible as fast as I could, discomfort> burning my face. As I tried to imagine what his story> might have been, I found myself wondering if I'd> just had a Howard Hughes sighting. Then, I remembered that> he was dead. So this man in the airport... an> impersonator maybe? Was a camera on us somewhere? There> I sat; trying to concentrate on the Word to keep> from being concerned about a thin slice of humanity> served up on a wheelchair only a few seats from me. All> the while, my heart was growing more and> more overwhelmed with a feeling for him. > > Let's admit it. Curiosity is a heap more comfortable> than true concern, and suddenly I was awash with aching> emotion for this bizarre-looking old man. > > I had walked with God long enough to see the handwriting on> the wall. I've learned that when I begin to feel> what God feels, something so contrary to my natural> feelings, something dramatic is bound to happen. And it may> be embarrassing. > > I immediately began to resist because I could feel God> working on my spirit and I started arguing with God in> my mind. 'Oh, no, God, please, no.' I looked up> at the ceiling as if I could stare straight through it into> heaven and said, 'Don't make me witness to this> man. Not right here and now. Please. I'll do> anything. Put me on the same plane, but don't make me> get up here and witness to this man in front of this> gawking audience.. Please, Lord!' > > There I sat in the blue vinyl chair begging His Highness,> 'Please don't make me witness to this man. Not> now. I'll do it on the plane.' Then I> heard it...'I don't want you to witness to him.> I want you to brush his hair.' > > The words were so clear, my heart leapt into my throat, and> my thoughts spun like a top. Do I witness to the man or> brush his hair? No-brainer. I looked straight back up> at the ceiling and said, 'God, as I live and breathe,> I want you to know I am ready to witness to this man.> I'm on this Lord. I'm your girl! You've> never seen a woman witness to a man faster in your> life. What difference does it make if his hair is a> mess if he is not redeemed? I am going to witness to> this man.' > > Again, as clearly as I've ever heard an audible word,> God seemed to write this statement across the wall of> my mind. 'That is not what I said, Beth.> I don't want you to witness to him. I want you to> go brush his hair.' > > I looked up at God and quipped, 'I don't have a> hairbrush. It's in my suitcase on the plane. How am> I supposed to brush his hair without> a hairbrush?' > > God was so insistent that I almost involuntarily began to> walk toward him as these thoughts came to me from> God's word: 'I will thoroughly furnish you unto> all good works.' (2 Timothy 3:17) > > I stumbled over to the wheelchair thinking I could use one> myself. Even as I retell this story, my pulse quickens> and I feel those same butterflies. I knelt down in> front of the man and asked as demurely as possible,> 'Sir, may I have the pleasure of brushing your> hair?' > > He looked back at me and said, 'What did you> say?' > > 'May I have the pleasure of brushing your> hair?' > > To which he responded in volume ten, 'Little lady, if> you expect me to hear you, you're going to have to> talk louder than that.' > > At this point, I took a deep breath and blurted out,> 'SIR, MAY I HAVE THE PLEASURE OF BRUSHING YOUR> HAIR?' At which point every eye in the place darted> right at me. I was the only thing in the room looking more> peculiar than old Mr. Long Locks. Face crimson and> forehead breaking out in a sweat, I watched him look up> at me with absolute shock on his face, and say,> 'If you really want to.' > > Are you kidding? Of course I didn't want to. But God> didn't seem interested in my personal preference> right about then. He pressed on my heart until I could> utter the words, 'Yes, sir, I would be pleased. But I> have one little problem. I don't have a> hairbrush.' > > 'I have one in my bag,' he responded. > > I went around to the back of that wheelchair, and I got on> my hands and knees and unzipped the stranger's old> carry-on, hardly believing what I was doing. I stood up> and started brushing the old man's hair. It was> perfectly clean, but it was tangled and matted. I> don't do many things well, but must admit I've> had notable experience untangling knotted hair mothering> two little girls. Like I'd done with either Amanda> or Melissa in such a condition, I began brushing at the> very bottom of the strands, remembering to take my time> not to pull. A miraculous thing happened to me as I> started brushing that old man's hair. Everybody> else in the room disappeared. There was no one alive> for those moments except that old man and me. I brushed and> I brushed and I brushed until every tangle was out of> that hair. I know this sounds so strange, but I've> never felt that kind of love for another soul in my> entire life.. I believe with all my heart, I - for that few> minutes - felt a portion of the very love of God. That> He had overtaken my heart for a little while like> someone renting a room and making Himself at home for> a short while. > > The emotions were so strong and so pure that I knew they> had to be God's. His hair was finally as soft and> smooth as an infant's.> > I slipped the brush back in the bag and went around the> chair to face him. I got back down on my knees, put my> hands on his knee and said, 'Sir, do you know my> Jesus?'> > He said, 'Yes, I do' > > Well, that figures, I thought. > > He explained, 'I've known Him since I married my> bride. She wouldn't marry me until I got to know> the Savior.' He said, 'You see, the problem is,> I haven't seen my bride in months. I've had> open-heart surgery, and she's been too ill to come> see me. I was sitting here thinking to myself, what a mess> I must be for my bride.' > > Only God knows how often He allows us to be part of a> divine moment when we're completely unaware of the> significance. This, on the other hand, was one of those> rare encounters when I knew God had intervened in details> only He could have known. It was a God moment, and> I'll never forget it. > > Our time came to board, and we were not on the same plane.> I was deeply ashamed of how I'd acted earlier and> would have been so proud to have accompanied him on> that aircraft. > > I still had a few minutes, and as I gathered my things to> board, the airline hostess returned from the corridor,> tears streaming down her cheeks. She said, 'That> old man's sitting on the plane, sobbing. Why did you do> that? What made you do that?' > > I said, 'Do you know Jesus? He can be the bossiest> thing!' > > And we got to share. > > I learned something about God that day. He knows if> you're exhausted, you're hungry, you're> serving in the wrong place or it is time to move on but> you feel too responsible to budge. He knows if you're> hurting or feeling rejected. He knows if you're> sick or drowning under a wave of temptation. Or He> knows if you just need your hair brushed. He sees you as an> individual. Tell Him your need! > > I got on my own flight, sobs choking my throat, wondering> how many opportunities just like that one had I missed> along the way... all because I didn't want people> to think I was strange. > > God didn't send me to that old man. He sent that old> man to me.> > Please share this wonderful story. > > 'Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how> to dance in the> rain!>

TOD

TOD that was beautiful :)

One thing the 12 step groups and religion have in common is that they both operate on the power of attraction.

When I see someone who has a peace, joy, wisdom or etc I admire and want...then I am attracted to that and want to learn about their source and their path.

Let me the agnostic take a stab at this from a distance....

She is in jail, not rehab so it is doubtful she is getting support for her addiction issues. Jail is not rehab. Sounds like you are trying to fill that role as rehab counselor of some sort and to me, if I were her parent, I'd be wary as well. Because she is fragile and seems hungry for answers to her predicament, she will probably listen to anyone who came up to her, good intentions or not.

As harsh as it is for you to experience, and no one knows dad's motives or thoughts but just on the surface, I think maybe you are ovestepping your role from friend to 'counselor' and without training, that would make me as a parent suspicious.

Just my feedback from what you wrote....

btw.. I can tell you do want what is best for you and are confused by the situation with Dad. Sounds like you are handling it the right way. I was looking at just the logistics of her sitch being in jail and visiting vs. being in a setting where she is getting support. I think it is great you are trying to support your friend but Dad is coming from a different angle and I'd hate to think there were thoughts about you being from a different background that were causing him to not trust you. Downright a shame if that were the case.

Babyblue said: I'd hate to think there were thoughts about you being from a different background that were causing him to not trust you

You said earlier on: I have a bad past, but he, (dad) knows nothing of it. Are you so sure he doesn't know about your past? Are you so sure this girl hasn't fessed up to daddy about your past after him asking her?

TOD

Hello, NeverLetGo, and welcome to SoberRecovery!

You have most definitely gotten your feet wet here.

As you have experienced, there can be a lot of really good exchange of opinion, based on our collective experience.
We aim to be respectful of others' viewpoints.

A lot of stuff here in this thread...I'd just like to comment on the above quoted statement.

I think you may be misunderstanding the concept of helplessness. The place we need to start, in a 12-step program, is the notion of powerlessness.
Which is different from helplessness.

Our help comes from our faith in a higher power, and our belief that that guidance will help to straighten us out. It lasts a lifetime.

The powerlessness is about - for an addict - the idea that he cannot have adequate control over his drinking/drug use. He has to give that idea up.

For us - those who love an addicted person - is is that we do not have power (or control) over that person. We have spent many hours, days, years even, believing that we do, but come to understand that it was an illusion.

Keep coming back here, as I see you have. I wish you and your friend all the best.

More details become revealed on a regular basis. It seems, his problem is simply prejudice. He does not want me and her to have a future. Period. He said I'm not what he would want for her. Which..once again... I've made it perfectly clear... There is nothing..but friendship. What the future holds? I don't pretend to know, right now..I'm focused on being there for her in the best possible way. Not leading her on. Her best friend, and her father both think I'm up to no good and agree I should disappear. They both refuse to talk to me, which makes me doubt their sincerity in every way. I've done everything I can to stay out of their way and adapt to what they wish. She doesn't "listen" well. They see her listening to me.. Jealousy, Self-righteousness, and prejudice all calculate into their theory that I'm bad for her. I take their view into account on a regular basis, and do my best to comfort them, but they seem completely focused on themselves more than anything. They are not interested in whats best for her, they're interested in controlling her. Her father has tried to 'arrange' her marriage a few times, and she has tried to make it work with these guys, but it never does. She said she blames herself for not being able to give her dad what he deserves(a child to be proud of because she married another wealthy person), especially after making him go through all this. Her dad tries to control every bit of her choices. They see that slipping away with my presence. Which could be a very bad thing or a very good thing in their eyes. They are acting as if it's the very bad thing, Which I understand. I truly do. I also see all the "underlying' incentives that could motivate me to take advantage of the situation. I'm fully aware of that, and respect his 'caution' in that area. I wish I had the answers for them, right now I'm more concerned with her though. They're digging their own hole with her, and I pray it would stop.

I don't go to counsel her, I'm letting you guys know the parts that deal with the 'rehab' situation because that's what this place is about. I don't show up, pull out my grade book and say.. "Kids..today in class we'll be covering the effects of dope on the souls ability to discern." I listen..advise if I consider it appropriate..I love on her..but most of all..all we do is laugh and joke. It takes up about 90 percent of our conversation, if we do have one.

She wants answers, and she is actually very..resistant to anyone or thing that offers help. She wants to do it all alone and wants everyone else to disappear. She has already gotten rid of a couple friends that tried to stay in contact with her. She isn't one to latch on, she sees weakness in it and despises dealing with people because it reminds her of what she lost, and what she misses on a regular day. She won't take too many people serious, I've earned that respect coincidentally. She would definitely NOT listen to just anyone.. Not in her character at all. One of the most stubborn people I've ever known... although she has been breaking a lot of her old habits. She shows progress in obvious ways, which makes it hard to take the notion that I'm "bad" for her too serious. She smiles.. more and more.. the longer we know each other. Which..is my moto by the way. I live my life by that..
"Just keep smiling.. " It's always worked for me. :)

TOD, I've told her that I had a past in dealing, but never told her any details. It's possible that he might know something a long those lines, but I doubt it.
He never brings it up when complaining about me,which I'm sure he would if he could..if you heard some of the things he tries to "make up' to complain about...you wouldn't be able to take this man too serious. He's using everything he can against me....he just doesn't have much to use against me..


Coffeedrinker, I believe almost everything you said, except for the part about not having any 'power' over addicts. I think it's the power we have over them, that we use unwittingly against them, that pushes them away and down the holes. In most cases the addict is completely responsible, but not in all..in my opinion.

I'm a Christian. Of course I believe in a higher power, and that higher power lives within me, and through me. So believing I have no "power' to change someone would nullify my entire Faith.

I believe the programs are very good, I do. I have no doubt, these programs have SAVED people's lives. I simply don't agree with all they say. This particular item being one.

NeverLetGo23:

It seems you have a lot on your plate. I can "read" you care about this girl. Though some times in our lives. We have to take a back seat in someone elses life! The reason being; the other side of her friends and family wanting you out of her life. You don't need to risk your sanity and beliefs in continuing this battle of wills.

The reason she is smiling more and more is probably due to her having more time off the drugs. She has a lot of time coming, in being behind bars. She may be holding on to yawls friendship to get her through this long time. You might find yourself left by the road side once she's free and able to see whomever she wants to!!! She may also be seeing you and continuing yawls friendship just to prove to her father she can do whatever she pleases, and he can't stop her. Just saying............

You have a jaded past and this might come to light later on to her father's knowledge. This wouldn't be a pretty encounter.

I'm really at a loss at this point, as to what to advise you to do. This is a road you'll have to consider heavily and then proceed on with whatever you decide to do.

I wish you well.

TOD

I agree we must take a backseat and allow people to come to terms with reality on their own in many instances. I do this on a regular basis. There is obvious risk in the situation, but I look forward to the challenge ahead. The more impossible a situation seems, the more likely I'm to come out on top. It's the survival instinct we all have, but few tap into it. When you're back is against the wall, is when you should be your strongest. I do not fight for myself, but for the good of the people involved. As much as her family has attacked me, i would want nothing more than her to return to them healthy and healed, with or without me in the picture.

There are a lot of "what if's" in all situations of life. Simply because a person is on drugs, doesn't mean they're more prone to be a con-artist. Plenty of people never touch drugs and con their way to death. If she leaves me by the road-side, I won't linger on it too much. It would hurt, but my strength rests on my relationship with God, and no other. Through Him..all things are possible, and any situation can be conquered.

I would love to share my story with her father if I ever got the opportunity. He can't think any less of me than he does now, so I don't worry too much for the results of his revelations.

I see the pros and I see the cons. I'm not the type to worry about myself over others though, never have been, never will be. I'll let God worry about me, I'm in His hands, and not to worried about the outcome. I'll just continue doing what I can for those around me.

As Always, I appreciate the time and response. As I've said before, simply talking about the situation has helped tremendously.