chicory

to find medical help, when you have no money or job?

adult Son is having such issues, and I am not sure that he CAN help his self.
He needs to see someone for his anxiety, and the sinus trouble that he got surgery for is still there. Just took him to emergency a few days ago, and got more antibiotics for it.

I know many said to put him out- I have not done that, as I am not sure that he even has the ability to figure out how to survive. He is so down right now. I would like to get him to a doctor, who can address his issues, but with no job, no insurance, it seems impossible.
also, what do you do when they are so frustrated with all of their life, and you cant get them to even begin to try to solve some of their problems?
I am wearing down, and sometimes , I just dont know if i can bear this. there seems to be a big black cloud over us, with no break in sight.

he needs medical help. where can you go for good help, mental and medical?
any ideas?

I feel like i am barely hanging on here...
to make it worse, we cant talk without him arguing everything. sometimes i tell him that i wish i could die, he makes me so frustrated. he hesitates for a moment, then proceeds to argue again. does not seem to care or believe that i am nearly crazy.
that is bad, i know.

i know how to get help for me, as i have insurance, and i will go to the mental health board for my issues, but he has not agreed to go.

i feel like it is hopeless.

how can you throw someone out, who cannot deal with life? someone who pumps in the caffeine, does not sleep or eat right, and cannot begin to figure out how to work on his problems-fines, warrant, job, health, etc.
guess i am thinking my son is too mentally ill to manage anything on his own, and may never be. i wonder if i will forever be taking care of him, and if i will have to listen to his miserable complaining on valid and on unrealistic complaints. oh, this is getting to be too hard.

then, sometimes , i wonder if he is just situationally frustrated, and stuck, and if i am just seeing this situation in black and white. if he could manage, if he got help.
I wish there was a way he could talk to someone, and find out what is going on with him , for sure.

Oh, and I need help at this point too, but i know what to do .

hugs,
chicory

Nerdgirl

If you live near a medical school they usually have low cost clinics affiliated. Also, your local board of health office should have some leads as to where he can get the care he needs. That's all I've got, but these leads are for him, not you and you cannot make him get the help he needs. Only he can do that.

I'm deeply troubled by your tone in this post. And I thought you were going to put him out last month? Isn't he nearly forty? He needs to man up my dear, and it seems that you cannot afford anymore crazy making. If you need to talk to a professional the best place to start is with your family doctor, who can direct you to a counselor, social worker, or psychiatrist as needed. Take care & God bless.

tjp613

Hi Chicory, sweetie.

Check out these resources in your county... but at the very least please call to get some support:

Butler County Mental Health Board - Services

I'm so sorry you are struggling. I'm praying for you.

EJG123

chicory- Even if there is help available, he has to agree to go. If he were taken in on a warrant, maybe he could be forced to get court-ordered help. Also, you would be amazed by what a person figures out when they are put out on the street. At rock bottom, he might decide to take himself to an ER in a suicidal state and they should admit him for a few days even if he is indigent. He would not be allowed to leave until he was evaluated, treated, and given a discharge plan. Sounds like you need to have him somewhere else for awhile until you can get your feet back under you.

chicory

Thank you for your caring responses. I know that many here probably have lost patience with me. Everyones situation is different, and sometimes we cannot go by a cookie cutter script.

today, I tried to remember to feel glad that he is having no fun. He needs to have no fun, and to feel the pain from his lifes choices, in order to change. how to make him see it as his own fault, due to bad choices, tho. I am guessing that this is something that he will need to come to realize on his own?

Do you think that some people who deny it being their fault- that they have a crap life- no job, no girl, no license, no friends who will call back, no new friends, a hurt hand (from hitting a wall) damaged relationship with his sisters. no one who will offer help. he thinks that every one else is just not helping, that they are just concerned with their own lives, and that they are selfish. do you think he REALLY believes this is not his fault? I think that he knows it may be, but will NOT admit it. makes me crazy, cause he brings it up all the time.

tonight, i went to daughters house, for some fun- i did not stay home just cause he is here and unhappy. i did not tell him that we were all getting together , and that the sisters are very angry at him, for his behavior. i just said i was baby sitting. he called me, and said that he was going to go next door and ask for some work( night time and we dont even know our neighbors!), in order to be able to "help" his pain(sinus - who knows if it really is that bad) and nerves. I told him that he could go ahead, if he wanted them to think he is crazy, and if he wants to get arrested. Of course, i am sure he was just trying to manipulate me, into helping him. I just said, go ahead, be crazy if you want. then , i tried to put him out of my mind, so my fun would not be wasted.
of course , he did not do this, nor did he intend to!

i need to remember that if he is miserable, then he may change. i need to keep my sanity. i told him that if nothing changes, nothing changes(I like that one). and told him that things will get better, then he went on telling me how he would go on grinding his teeth out of his head. i just said, life sucks for you right now, but it will get better.
i then went on to my room. here i am. i worry each time he opens his door, that he is going to start arguing. baiting me. i need to make good boundaries, and keep them strong.

I plan to go to the mental health board, thanks tjp- i have been there with him, twice, to the psych0logists. i plan on going to some counseling there, and maybe he will go. i wonder if it would be worth it to insist,in order to be here for a while longer.

thank you , for taking the time for this. i know that i am doing so many wrong things, but i feel so stuck. i think that the counselling is going to make a big difference. and al- anon.

thank you all , so much.
hugs,
chicory

Angelic17

Chicory, I'm sorry to hear that your still going through this crisis with your son. It's so sad, because you love him, but he is taking advantage of you. I know you can't put him out. GOD knows I couldn't and wouldn't put my son out. However, my son left on his own, and he cleaned himself up and wanted to come back here, and he was told NO. That hurt me big time, but it had to be done. Your son is a full grown man, who cannot do anything for himself, because he doesn't have to. He has you to do it all for him. You pay the bills, you feed him, wash his clothes, and pay the electric and phone. He has a computer to go on, and he is content with that. He probably has a drug or alcohol problem, and that's what keeps him from achieving and moving ahead. The only way he is going to do anything for himself is if you stop enabling him. I know your in a very tough spot, because it's impossible for you to put him out.

I reccomend having him sign up for some kind of Public Assistance. That will help provide him with Food stamps, so he can buy food. Medicaid so he can see a doctor when he needs to, and he can get some therapy from a psychologist or psychiatrist. Also, being that he is young and strong, if he is on that type of a program, they will try to help him find work. I'm pretty sure that state funded aid for young men, makes you look for a job. Everyone knows the economy is in a bad way. It's hard to find work these days. Hang in there. Better days are ahead. This is going to change. But, you might have to change some things. You need for your son to calm down and stop arguing with you in your own home. It's so unhealthy for the both of you. His behavior sounds like he is defintitely on some sort of drugs or alcohol. If you made him leave for a while, he might realize that living with you has been good, and maybe he will appreciate you and your home a bit more. Right now he is taking you for granted, and that's so wrong. I hope this changes soon, but its up to you. How much more do you want to put up with? What do your daughters think of this situation? I'm surprised that they don't try to help you with this matter. A family intervention might be a good thing. This way your not doing all of this on your own. I will be praying for you Chicory. I really feel your suffering. I'm sorry.

Spiritual Seeker

When my son lived in AZ they had state health insurance he was eligible for based
on income ( or lack of ) . It was easy to get. He completed an applic. and had health
insur. in 30 days. There was also a behavioral health component.
No dental was avail.

See what your state offers.

tjp613

Hi Chicory - I see that you are making some progress! Refusing to engage in his arguments or his attempts at manipulation is big for you! As for his phone call while you were out, you probably should have just kept your phone off or refused to answer while you are out having fun! You don't owe him any explanations--remember that. But my son used to do that kind of stuff, too, and one of my favorite phrases I use is, "It's your life, not mine!" I just keep putting the ball back in his court. He is finally getting it. His car broke down the other day and I offered to help him pay for it and HE REFUSED my help! He said, "I'll try to take care of it myself. I need to learn how to stretch my dollars when a situation like this comes up." I thought I would FAINT! Yesterday he made $95 in tips and he was ecstatic. I told him, "See how God provides when you just keep doing the next right thing?"

I don't know if you can make him go to counseling or even should. In my experience it's been a waste to force that kind of a situation....but who knows? It could be that only NOW all those hours spent on the psychologist's couch are paying off...maybe he hears her voice in his head sometimes? After psychologists, psychiatrists, rehab, sober living and a hundred AA meetings he has the tools and is only now utilizing some of them. So in that regard "making him go" might be a good idea, but I wouldn't expect miracles right away -- y'know?

Just keep focusing on YOU and what you can do to maintain your OWN serenity and happiness and I think the rest will fall into place. Just keep doing the next right thing for YOU. ((((HUGS))))

Nerdgirl

Good for you for having a lovely evening with you daughter and for staying strong and refusing to be baited into an argument! It's a big step and I'm sure that your son sees that something is changing.

Kindeyes

chicory
Oh sweetie I just want to give you a big hug. The pain you are feeling comes through your words so clearly.

You are right....nothing changes if nothing changes.....for him and for you. You are working on you, which is HUGE. Continue to work on the changes in you and you may find that the changes you see in him are bigger than expected. The only bad part is that sometimes when we change, "they" get worse for a while because they don't want us to change.

I can only speak for our state regarding getting medical help. Most of it can be done online through DSHS. Applications for food stamps, financial aid, medical help, and detox/rehab. It's all there. But someone has to actually fill out the paperwork to get the ball rolling.

Now here's a question I have for you.......if he is in such a bad way (my son is pretty much there too but he's living on the streets right now).......is he disabled? Could he be committed involuntarily for evaluation? It would take a great deal of strength to do that, but I wonder if it is possible?

These situations are so difficult. My heart can so understand the pain you are feeling and I'm so glad that you are making some baby steps toward your own recovery. Personally, I am in therapy, I read incessantly, I go to my meetings.......I'm pretty busy with my own battle for my own recovery and sanity. I think sometimes that the best thing I can do for my son is to model recovery. Show him how it's done. Change me and change the dynamic.

You and your son have my prayers.

gentle hugs

ZombieWife

And they should be concerned with their own lives. There is nothing wrong with wanting to carve out a piece of happiness for yourself and to remove yourself from the drama.

It's hard to say what he thinks/feels. I do know one thing, though, that addicts are highly resourceful. They can stoop to unimaginable levels to get their fix. Their loved ones seem to think they still need help. He doesn't need YOUR help. He needs to help himself. He has no reason to do that until you stop.

I don't know your son, but from some of the words you are writing, I wonder if he has such a severe self-loathing (or lack of self-love) that renders him incapacitated in terms of taking care of himself at a very basic, survival, instinctual level.

You can't make him hit bottom. He has to do that on his own. I always wondered if a lack of taking responsibility has something to do with a lack of self-worth.

I will definitely pray for you.

Be well.

chicory

I sometimes think that he feels quite a hate for what he has allowed to happen in his life, for he is sad that he does not have what others have. at his age, too. his sisters have taken their turn at helping, and they know that it does no good to help him- he still holds back and does not try things that could help.

I wonder if he is afraid of failure. of looking like a fool. of not understanding how to do something. he is kind of a geek guy, and sort of airheaded, and thinks a little differently. he talks differently too.

when he gets a job, he acts like he knows how to do it already- like it is horrid for him to admit that there is something he does not know how to do.
he gets in his own way of learning, for he wont listen. i cant explain it well, but when he got a job in construction (he loved it), and he would not listen to the whole instructions. i knew some of the men, and one told me that my son would not listen to instruction, and that eventually, they just let him go, and do his own thing, until his absenteeism caused him to lose his job.
another guy said that my son did not know much, but would act like it. it is like he was embarrassed to be taught something. i dont understand.
he is such a hard worker, when he has ajob. and wants to please.

he is smart too. when he was in jr high, he taught the computer class, along with the teacher. his first purchase was a computer.
i sometimes wonder if he is not grieving the loss of the dream of having a great computer job. they are not easy to find now. and without a degree, really hard to find. there is another thing. he did not finish college, and always said that he didn;t need a degree. that someone was going to see what he knows, and that would be enough to land his dream job. did not happen.
i am learning a lot, each day. some days, i grieve a lot, but with each challenge, i understand more.

tonight, he tried to engage me again, and he may yet again, later. but , i am just going to not talk, i am not going to respond. he can talk to my door, and if he does something stupid and destructive, guess i can call the crazy crew, to come and evaluate the situation. they have a unit that will come in a crisis, or emergency and do an evaluation, to see if they need to go to a treatment center.

kindeyes, he is not disabled, unless it is mentally. he does get food stamps. he cannot get health care, without a qualifying child. sad. we go to the emergency room, for issues .

the idea of setting a good example, for him to see healthy behavior-hope it is not too late, cause i have been an a-- a few times lately.

i appreciate the prayers , thoughts , and advice. so much. i realize that it is serious when you dread to hear someone come out of their room, or dread to come home. something has to change, for I want to be healthy. I wish to be around for my lovely grandbabies. i have three. and they love me a lot

I will be going back to my alanon here in town, with the guy who dominates with stories of his x wifes drunken behavior. we never seem to focus on the steps, but maybe i can just give it another chance. maybe that is where he was then , and maybe now he moved out of that cycle. who am i to judge that poor man. they are all so nice there, tho.


I apologize for focusing on my son so much. i know this is for our recovery. it is just my needing for someone to share this nightmare with. I cannot do that to my girls. tho we do talk some.

step two seems harder than one. I had no father figure, and it is hard for me to trust even God sometimes. I want to control what happens to me. It is hard to let go. but i look forward to the great freedom that will come with letting go.
sorry for the novel.
hugs to all,
chicory

Kindeyes

chicory
Sometimes you just need to get it OUT of you and that's ok. We've all been there (and will probably be there again). Sometimes getting our thoughts out on virtual paper helps to get our own thoughts worked out.

Sometimes, as smart as my son is, I wonder if he is disabled. I wonder if my codependence crippled him so much that he can't do some things for himself that he should be able to do. And then on the other hand, he is resourceful enough to live a lifesyle that I would not be able to negotiate.

It's hard to see our loved ones struggle......we see so much potential. We see what they use to be. If only they could see themselves through our eyes, they would see what beautiful people they are deep down.

Keep up your good work, chicory. Keep working on yourself. Even for those of us raised in religious homes, it's hard to let go and let God. It takes a lot of practice and prayer.

gentle hugs

anewdaytosmile

Hi chicory,

I'm so sorry for what you are going thru. I am new here. But I have a 23 year old son with mental illness and drug addiction. From what you wrote above it sounds like your son has a mental health issue. One of the books that helped me is "At Wit's End, What you need to know when a loved one is diagnosed with addiction and mental illness" by Jeff jay and Jerry Boriskin.

I also went to NAMI classes & support groups and DBSA support groups. They helped me understand mental illness and also provided information with how to find help both for me and for my son in the area. Including how to find help for someone with no income and no money, for both medical and mental health issues.

After his last relapse we did an intervention and told him he could keep using and be on the street without any support or take the help we were offereing for him to get well. He decided to take the help and is working on both his sobiety and his mental health. Right now things are good. But ultimately it's up to him to continue on this path to wellness.

By doing these things it also helped me. I'm now going to al-anon and working on myself. It's a very hard road for us and for our children.

I wish you luck in whatever path you decide to take.

JMFburns

Chicory,

I too have a son who has an addiction to opiates, pain pills mostly, but he has smoked heroin occasionally. My son is currently sober (according to him) and is taking suboxone. My son just turned 30. He is smart, funny, kind and I love him ALOT. I want to do everything I can to "take care" of him, but I know it is not the right thing to do for me and it is definetely NOT the right thing to do for him.

I feel like I know how my son feels about things, what he likes, what he doesn't like, what his struggles are (no friends, no one to tell him he's doing a good job, rejection from his sister and father, etc.), what makes him happy, what makes him sad, etc. But ya know what, that is focusing on my son and I cannot control him (as much as I've tried, as much as I fanatize that I can) I can only control my actions.

My actions are to attempt to take care of myself to the best of my ability. To figure out what I like, what I don't like, what makes me happy, how I can get myself out of my mind and not wallow in thinking about my son.

My son has legal (warrants), medical, emotional and dental problems. He is on food stamps and state funded medical that is a very limited program. He can wallow in guilt, self-loathing and self-pity or he can attempt to take care of himself - HIS CHOICE.

Take care of yourself Chicory, you are the only one who can. You and your son are in my thoughts.

dollydo

I can tell you that with my exabf, he lived at home until he was 29, then she died and out on the street he went. She enabled him to the point that he was a cripple, he could not figure anything out on his own. She was the main problem.

Loving a child really doesn't keep a child from becoming an adult, that is the process, you do the best you can when raising the child, and then a parent must let go, let the adult fend for themselves.

No one can stop you from doing what you are doing, and no one can make you understand that what you are doing is not helping him.

How about considering some therapy for you? Your behavior does affect your other children, and, someday they might just get tired of the entire situation and totally walk away, for their own well being.

I am sorry that you are stuck in this situation.

chicory

someone made the statement that a parent should be strong, and keep strong boundaries, and in doing so, the son would feel the strength, the health, and feel more secure in knowing that his parent is functioning well in the world, and in this situation. That a parent would be more able to help, not by enabling, but by being consistent.

today, he told me that the courts want him to pay his fines in total, before they let him get his license back.$500 . no job, no transportation, no way to pay these fines. he had thought that when he was arrested, went to court, and they said that he was indigent, that they had cancelled all his fines. why he thought that, well, "focus" is not his middle name.

anyway, i would normally have been frustrated and sad, and worried about how. But today, I just thought to myself, I guess his higher power thinks he needs to take care of this problem. i dont even know where that thought came from. but it was ok-for a change.

wow1323

xoxooxoxoxoxoxoxo

tjp613

progress!!!

chicory

[QUOTE] he left home at 18 dolly, and came back for help about two years ago. he spent 3 months in a homeless shelter when i moved and did not take him with me.


i did let go- he did not ever try to do much more than hang out with friends, and live with them. and live, eat, breathe computers and role playing games. alot of that.


[ dolly, this is so frightening, it makes me literally sick. he is 38- i am so afraid that he may not ever be able to be independent. and yes, i could take him out of here tonight, and where would he go? to the corner and sleep on a bench? how about breakfast? he has no money, no friends, no car, etc. there are no shelters near here, none with any room. should i just say good luck-hope you eat soon?
I cant do that. If anything, I want to help him to get some help, with mental issues. He is not drinking or drugging, just depressed and negative and not functioning right. Mental illness is not cured by homelessness.



Yes, this situation affects the girls too, but we have a close relationship, and are managing to stay close through this trial. We get together all the time, and do not focus on their brother. we know that it is not good to do that. I am not afraid of losing them.



I know that i have been too easy on him. that i am too soft and easy to manipulate. that i am a codependent, and that i dont make great choices.

I called the mental health board today, for me. there is a wait list of 150 people ahead of me. i got name of another place, which might help. there are options for him too, if he will go talk to the counsellors. He is considering going to counselling. but I dont hold hope for that, i just pray.