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insides twisted

Old 09-15-2010, 10:22 AM
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insides twisted

i am sorry i post so much or ask so much or seem not to get it sometimes. i have been brought to tears more than once in the past couple of days. i guess i do wish to control her choices. this might be the first time in my life i have felt so helpless, and knowing the consequences is devastating to me. i am not a weak man. it has taken considerable strength t ogo through this wit hher, but i need to conjure up a different kind of strength for me- and even for her.

i am so scared of letting her go. i am scared of her being out there and maybe feeling horrible about herself but not having the comfort of someone to go to. but i guess that is the consequence of her choices.

my older cousin is now turninh 49 in jail for the past 3 years, having been a hardcore addict for probably 30 years. my greatest fear in that my friend who is 30 does not get out of it all soon. my insides are twisted. i am afraid she will just loose herself more and more. my only hope is that she finds her bottom soon.
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:17 PM
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There can't be anything more heartbreaking than to watch a loved one slowly kill themselves. I do believe that there is PART of this they have no control over - and that's why counseling, therapy, rehab is so important. It's a disease that they need professional help recovering from, but it's one they also have to WANT to recover from.

The bottom seems to never come or arrive so slowly it's too late, at times.

I keep thinking THIS time has to be the bottom. No? Okay...THIS. Not yet? Damn...how much worse can it get?

Every time something horrible happens and we are certain it can not get any worse...it does.

It's in our nature to comfort, counsel, care for and cure those we love. It's almost impossible not to. That is why it takes us so long to stop enabling and to stop taking their troubles into our hearts and life.

I am by NO means an expert in this, still learning...but am very slowly becoming aware of the fact that in order to save MY life, so I can be emotionally healthy enough to help her when she does come for help, I have to let go.

To me, right now, it seems uncaring, unfeeling, uncharitable, unsupportive, unChrist-like, and definitely un-mommy-ish. And I don't know how to get there. That seems to be where you are at, too....without the mommy part!

My daughter is sitting in jail. We won't bail her out again - have been burned twice by her failing to appear. Hearing her say "I'm your child, mom...please help your CHILD." breaks my heart in a thousand pieces. But I've also come to the awful realization that she's playing me as sure as I'm sittin' here. She doesn't mean the words - well, she might mean them NOW, but once out she's disappeared again and we start the cycle of sleepless nights full of tears, worry, and fear because she doesn't contact us and lives on the streets in her car.

Didn't mean to make this all about me - just want you to know these feelings are very normal and it takes time to work through them. It takes many times of being used and manipulated to "catch on". It's takes a LOT of evidence that our addict is not concerned for OUR feelings before we are willing to trust that evidence.

There is nothing wrong with tears - as long as they are used to cleanse your soul and not to drown in.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:44 AM
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When are you going to find your bottom Steve? All this focus on her, where does your life, your feelings, your needs fit in? Aren't you important?

Is there a "you"? Or are you just a reflection of her?

I feel bad for you because you are on a roller coaster to hell my friend. But until you can see it for what it is nothing anyone says is going to make a difference.

Your going to have to hit your rock bottom, I just hope it happens sooner than later. Take it from someone who has been there, I know what I'm talking about.

Hugs,
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:48 AM
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Many times, the codie is just as sick as the addict. I truly believe this is the case here.
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:45 AM
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i believe it too!
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by YouWillBe View Post
There can't be anything more heartbreaking than to watch a loved one slowly kill themselves. I do believe that there is PART of this they have no control over - and that's why counseling, therapy, rehab is so important. It's a disease that they need professional help recovering from, but it's one they also have to WANT to recover from.

The bottom seems to never come or arrive so slowly it's too late, at times.

I keep thinking THIS time has to be the bottom. No? Okay...THIS. Not yet? Damn...how much worse can it get?

Every time something horrible happens and we are certain it can not get any worse...it does.

It's in our nature to comfort, counsel, care for and cure those we love. It's almost impossible not to. That is why it takes us so long to stop enabling and to stop taking their troubles into our hearts and life.

I am by NO means an expert in this, still learning...but am very slowly becoming aware of the fact that in order to save MY life, so I can be emotionally healthy enough to help her when she does come for help, I have to let go.

To me, right now, it seems uncaring, unfeeling, uncharitable, unsupportive, unChrist-like, and definitely un-mommy-ish. And I don't know how to get there. That seems to be where you are at, too....without the mommy part!

My daughter is sitting in jail. We won't bail her out again - have been burned twice by her failing to appear. Hearing her say "I'm your child, mom...please help your CHILD." breaks my heart in a thousand pieces. But I've also come to the awful realization that she's playing me as sure as I'm sittin' here. She doesn't mean the words - well, she might mean them NOW, but once out she's disappeared again and we start the cycle of sleepless nights full of tears, worry, and fear because she doesn't contact us and lives on the streets in her car.

Didn't mean to make this all about me - just want you to know these feelings are very normal and it takes time to work through them. It takes many times of being used and manipulated to "catch on". It's takes a LOT of evidence that our addict is not concerned for OUR feelings before we are willing to trust that evidence.

There is nothing wrong with tears - as long as they are used to cleanse your soul and not to drown in.
I've been there with one of my daughters. It's heart wrenching. Trying to help someone who just uses you and then doesn't even appreciate anything later is a horror.

At some point you have to remove them from you, or remove yourself from them. They will take you down with them. It's very difficult but ultimately if if you don't care to survive they wont either.
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:45 PM
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It is heartbreaking to witness. That feeling of helplessness is awful. It is ok to be sad for her and the fantasy you held for so long. But something I am aware of in my own situation is, is my love and 'being there' for him making it easier or doing more damage? To be an addict is painful, and when the addict knows they are causing pain to others, it makes them want to use MORE not less. Just food for thought. Letting go of her may be the most loving thing you can do. No one can control the future so you honestly don't know the outcome so LET IT GO my friend. let it go. It will be the healthiest thing you can do for the both of you.
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:55 AM
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I guess I must have been an A-typical addict because I just didn't care and I used more so I would care even less.

The only pain I felt was for myself and others in my drug-world when we were out of dope or living some self-inflicted drama that came about because of dope.

I used and manipulated others as I saw necessary to feed my habit.

My family was inconsequential for the most part. I loved them. But I didn't really care if I hurt them... I was too busy getting high and being selfish. I remember thinking "I will deal with it later. Right now I am just going to get high."

Awww...sure.... I might have lied a little bit and said I felt bad and acted like I was "in pain" but that's kind of what they expected. I was telling them what they wanted to hear. It kept them off my back because they felt sorry for me.

Really. My life was all about my addiction.

The more I think about it. The less I think that is an a-typical addiction thought pattern.

I'm glad my family got out of my way, stopped trying to feel my pain and didn't interfere in my bottom or my recovery. They had high expectations for me. I'd probably still be a crack addict if they hadn't.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:38 AM
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Are you upset for her, or are you angry that you couldn't fix her?

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Old 09-17-2010, 06:56 AM
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i am upset for her!

it seems that everything keeps getting turned back to me wanting to be a savior. all i ever wanted was for her to have achance to help herself. maybe i underestimated how bad off she is. but i had t ogive it a chance. i could not just walk away or ignore it. i had to give her the support she might have needed to get there. she came close more than once, but after two months, i am backing off and letting her make her choices. it never was about me. there can really be someone who is sincere and altruistic and really wants to help without getting something in return, be it tangible or ego driven.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:22 AM
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Steve....

You will come to realize that you are not unique...you are not alone...you walk in the same footsteps as the rest of us here.

We all have and are in the same situation as you find yourself in right now.

You will come to realize that you put yourself here...you choose to stay in the chaos...you choose to believe that with love and support you can fix someone else's problems...you choose to believe that if you work harder on her sobriety than she does, you can help turn things around and guide her to a happier, sober life. You choose to believe that you have that kind of effect on people, you choose to believe that you have that kind of power.

I believed that for 10 years until I hit my own emotional bottom, and came here. Though I admittedly came here trying to find help for Mr.Sofa...I am thankful that I found help for Me.

We all here are working through this....working on ourselves, and taking things one day at a time.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know it's me.


You are not alone here. You are among friends.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:40 AM
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i guess this is all a process. i have chosen that through love and support maybe i could help. it is only through experience that i am learning in this case i cannot. but, i also could not have lived with myself if i didnt try. now that she has chosen to go back out there, i am beginning to detach. it will still take some work, but i will get there. i am coming to terms with what she is chosing her life to be- drugs and selling herself. i see it for what it is. i can only hope and pray that she will tire of it soon. i still do not know how to set the boundary that i will only see her when she decides to get clean. but i guess i will tire of this and be able to make that stand one day.

i understand how crazy it is to not just run from a gf who is doing this.

it is so difficult to let go
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:52 AM
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Steve
I do understand the pain you are in. I would venture to say that everyone here understands your pain and we wish we didn't. You seem like such a kind, loving and generous person. You are the kind of person that most people would love to have as a significant other. And in a normal, healthy situation, the kindness, love and generosity you give would be returned tenfold. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with embracing and sharing those wonderful traits with another human being.

That is....until you throw in one thing.....drugs.

Loving an addict is the hardest thing you will ever do. An addict will tell you anything they think you want to hear. They are masters at manipulation. They can cry on cue. They will tell you what an awful life they had and how no one (except you) understands them. They literally prey on our goodness.

It seems so very simple. The addict needs to stop taking drugs. They need to get into treatment. What's the big deal? Just do it. But they won't. So we try harder to help them see that it's all they need to do. We give them money because they haven't eaten in days. They will actually choose DRUGS over FOOD! What on earth is wrong with them? We give them shelter so that they can sleep in a warm environment. And then they DISAPPEAR. Why would they leave a warm bed and disappear for days, weeks or months? Everything that is intuitive to us to help someone doesn't help them. WHY??????

There have been experiments with rats. Once the scientists get the critter hooked on drugs. They present them with equal opportunities for food or for the drug. The rats will choose drugs over the food. The drug actually overrides the rats natural instincts for survival.

Addicts aren't doing the things they do to be purposefully mean. They aren't stupid. Their brain chemistry gets messed up. But we continue to treat them as though they don't have messed up brain chemistry. The "right" way to deal with a drug addict goes against every fiber of our being. It's really messed up.

I am so very sorry that you are dealing with addiction. If you are going to stick it out with her, be prepared for a very bumpy ride. No one NO ONE can tell someone what it's like to love an addict--it's one of those "you won't understand until you've experienced it" kind of things.

Just don't let it take you under. If you jump in to save a drowning person and they fight you, you have a choice.......hold on and drown with them.......or let them go and save yourself. If it gets to the point that you think you are going down with her too......let go.

gentle hugs
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1840 View Post
i still do not know how to set the boundary that i will only see her when she decides to get clean.
Try making the boundary general in nature and it will naturally include her: I will not associate with active drug users.

I met a couple of friends last night for dinner. I was late and they were telling me how incredible our waiter was, including being a recovered addict. I have no idea how that all came up in conversation.

My friends were drinking margaritas and I drank water because I'm on NSAIDs for a while. They got a little tipsy and apologized to him in case they weren't behaving. He said no problem, he drinks way more than they do.

As soon as he walked away, I said I thought he was a recovering addict? I no longer wanted to hear anything he had to say. He may have given up his drug of choice but he's still an addict because he's abusing another one, and it clouds everything.

He kept trying to draw me into conversation and I kept giving one word answers, before picking up my phone and pretending to text someone. I paid in cash last night too, because my credit card has been skimmed twice. I did not trust him.

steve, my RAD is not friends any more with even one of her enablers. Didn't matter how good their intentions were. She's friends only with the people who had the courage to tell her no. She respects them, not the others.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Chino View Post
steve, my RAD is not friends any more with even one of her enablers. Didn't matter how good their intentions were. She's friends only with the people who had the courage to tell her no. She respects them, not the others.
This may be the simplist, but most powerful thing to hit me today.

the hardest part is not trustung inthe outcome. what will happen? will she hate me for it? will she later love me for it?
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:38 AM
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My daughter hated or dismissed everyone that told her no while active in addiction. When she found recovery she made amends with them and us.
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:52 PM
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chino-
your posts here are giving me great inspiration (of course everyone elses help too)

when you set your boundary, did you have no contact with her? if you did, how did you limit it?
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:44 PM
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I told her when she was ready to find recovery to let us know. We didn't call her and she didn't call us until she was ready.
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