steve1840

i cannot imagine how painful it is for addicts to chose the drugs over the life they may really desire. when i hear of her dreams and aspirations, but see her recognize her own powerlessness to change anything it breaks my heart. it is horrible to see her cry so deeply over it. here is a talented chef who wants to be married to the love of her life and raise a family- the things she has always wanted- unable to pursue that because the demon has such a strong hold on her. this has been the one girl i have been most comfortable with my whole life. i am not going into that there is only one thing, but i have ben around enough and known enough people to know that on some levels, she is the only one who has gotten me. and vice versa. it just sucks to be lossing all of that potential to this. i hate it. i hate it so much for everyone who has to go through it.

suki44883

It's obviously not painful enough for them to grab onto help when it is right in front of them. Yes, I understand how awful you feel because your friend chose not to take the help, but please, don't make it sound like she didn't have a choice. She most definitely did have a choice and at one point was in treatment and left. She just isn't ready and it isn't because she doesn't have choices, it is because she chooses NOT to stop.

hello-kitty

Hmmm... interesting perspective steve. Try changing it around:

How painful it is for us codependents to know that someone we love is choosing drugs over the life we desire for them. How difficult it is for us to believe that we are powerless to change any of it. How hard it is to accept that words are only words, and the actions are what truly matters. Why is it nearly impossible for us codependents to focus on ourselves and our own personal issues? Why do we choose to throw away our potential and our future because of the irresponsible, bad choices of another human being?

There is a great lesson in all of this... and we are exactly where we need to be in order to learn it.

YouWillBe

It IS very hard being the "innocent" bystander in all of this. OUR lives are just as turned around by our addicts as their's are.

I go back and forth - anger at my daughter for putting herself and us through this. And sad that she is stuck in her life but sincerely wants to change AT TIMES.

I know exactly what you are saying and feeling and I know exactly what hello-kitty is saying, too...and I hate that she's right.

We are in a whirlwind, emotionally, because we love them and can't separate ourselves from the want to help them and the need to not.

It's just the hardest thing, ever.

steve1840

true true true

i guess all i was saying is that they suffer too. i miss what we had and could have had, and i believe that part of her does too.

i am too much of a certain type of personality wherein i always feel for the other person- wait is thata codie trait?!?! being that, i recognize that being an addict, while causing us great pain, is alos painful to them. i dont think they like hurting us and doing all the bad things to us. i think they can feel very bad about it. but i guess all that matters is what is...she is using and i am beginning my healing.

suki44883

When they are in enough pain to do whatever is necessary to change, then they are ready. Until then, they don't feel as much pain as you think. It isn't pain they feel for what they have done to you, it is their own pain and suffering that makes them stop. The other stuff comes later.

hello-kitty

me too. However, I don't let it run my life. I prefer to try to help people who want it (community service, volunteer hours, etc etc) And leave the ones who don't want it alone (active crack addicts).

Steve, I am a recovering drug addict. I know very well what it's like out there in crackland. I have a very good idea about your "friend' is doing and why she is making the choices she is making. I am also a codependent. I must accept that I can't make you realize the truth any more than you can make her choose recovery.

Not really. They are high. Addicts are pretty numb to what they are doing to themselves. All they/we want is more drugs so we can stay that way. The only time we really care is when we are coming down, and then, again, all we really want is more drugs so we can be high again.

It's truly all about the drugs.

steve1840

beleive it or not, i have had struggles with various addictions throughout my life. i fully understand how hard it is to stop something. i know how bad i felt about myself. i am glad her and i were able to relate on so many levels about this.

hello-kitty

Glad to hear you are overcoming your struggles with various addictions and that it has helped you be able to relate so well to her about her addiction. That should certainly make it easier to let go of your relationship with her since you realize that it's not about you. It's about the drugs.

steve1840

that is sooooo hard to accept

steve1840

well, it is hard because we had a relationship prior to the drugs and i know her well. i understand that the drugs are involved, but is it not possible that she expresses real feelings? maybe i am underestimating things. i just cannot believe they are all totally gone and have nothing real left inside.

steve1840

this is what i need to accept i guess.

for the record- i always knew she had smoked pot for those ten years, she always said that she did. its just that never before had she admitted that pot was actually a drug and that it was masking something. 2 years ago is when she was introduced to the heroin and crack. there was as brief period of pills in between. really none of that matters at this point. all that matters is what is now.

steve1840

yes, that is the problem i guess. of course, not all of these apply, but most do- the things that make for a relationship. i dont know where the person ends and the drugs begin. maybe i got used to everything. i dont know what to believe.

laurie6781

Steve I am sorry that you keep focusing on her instead of on yourself.

What you asked can only be answered with:

It is a different kind of pain. It is SLAVERY to KING ALCOHOL and/or KING DRUGS. As much as she cries that she doesn't want to be this way, it is the PAIN of BREAKING THE CHAINS OF SLAVERY.

That will only happen when she is "sick and tired of being sick and tired."

Now, is the time for YOU to take the focus off of her and put it back on YOURSELF. Not to be harsh, but with all your 'helping' you have DRASTICALLY SLOWED her decline to HER BOTTOM. You need now to look within you, with the help of Al-Anon and possibly a therapist to see why, and to learn how not to do this again.

You have so enmeshed yourself in 'her problems' that there is no YOU right now. Let go, love her from afar, but get on with the business of LIVING YOUR LIFE NOW.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

MaryGoRound

This was very well put. I need to print this i think....or... tattoo it !

This was something I didn't know I wasn't accepting - I couldnt/cant accept the fact that even though he doesn't want to hurt me, it doesn't matter.

YouWillBe

This is so, So, SO, SO hard. Our heads understand and believe it...our hearts? Not so much.

Being fairly new to this situation I'm struggling with the knowledge that the pain they feel is mostly for themselves and what they do to us is beside the point.

Steve - I can't wrap my mind, either, around the fact that a child (or lover, spouse, parent, etc) would intentionally bring about all this heartache.

Right now, in the midst of it, with proof all around me, I have a hard time believing there could be anything more hurtful than these actions.

Callie

How painful it is for us codependents to know that someone we love is choosing drugs over the life we desire for them. How difficult it is for us to believe that we are powerless to change any of it. How hard it is to accept that words are only words, and the actions are what truly matters. Why is it nearly impossible for us codependents to focus on ourselves and our own personal issues? Why do we choose to throw away our potential and our future because of the irresponsible, bad choices of another human being?
Great post HK - so true!

What do you have in common with her? Do you both like to vacation to the same travel destinations? Do you have common friends that you go out to dinner with? Do you discuss religious and political views? Do you both enjoy the arts, the theater, concerts? Are your morals, ethics, values similar? Do you to read, shop, go for coffee together? Are you both interested in sports-either participating or observing? Are you both comfortable around each others friends and families? Do you have similar work ethic? Are you both able to hold down a job and contribute to society? Do you both volunteer time or donate money to those less fortunate?


Uh, no, no, no and no! Thanks CO - I realize that although xah and I do have things in common we have more things not in common.

Steve, they're right. Drugs will prevail until they're done. My xah gave up 2 beautiful kids, a beautiful home, his nice cars, clothes, job and a pretty decent wife. He gave up exotic vacations, h20 skiing trips every weekend to the lake. All of it gone. He has nothing to his name anymore except a run down rental property. He didn't just leave 1 person, he left many. He even left my family, who was more his than his own. Drugs will ALWAYS win until the addict is done. He was set for life. Had a decent 401k plan saved. Gone. All towards drugs. 40k gone in a span of 8 months for drugs. He threw it ALL away for little miss H (heroin). Keep moving forward and don't look back. It will only bring you chaos, turmoil and pain.

Callie

I got along great with his parents…because I took him off their hands.

Oh I am the apple of his family's eye. I am king of all kings. They don't want to deal with it so they thrust it on my door because I can do WAAAY better then them. Right? I can! Truth be told, I can. But I can't. Addiction is too strong and it's really easy to toss him my way because I am the almighty, all powerful person who makes THE difference. "He listens to you Callie, he loves you callie, he'll do what you say callie." All the while they put ME on a pedastool because their lazy a$$es didn't do what they should have as parents, aunts, grandma's, cousins. In the end though it's HIS fault. He's using me as just of a much scapegoat as his family is.

Impurrfect

(((Steve))) - I lost a career I absolutely loved (I was an RN). I got a job waiting tables until I was robbed twice and got pistol whipped. I now work at a McDonald's, waiting to hear if I am getting a better job at a restaurant, waiting tables again.

I am making minimum wage, struggling like hell, with my finances,

HOWEVER, I'm more content with my life than I've ever been. It took me getting sick and tired of the consequences, realizing that I HAD to get my life back on track because those who loved me told me "I love you, but we won't tolerate you being on drugs". I lived in a motel room for a few months, surrounded by crack, but didn't use.

Unfortunately, just quitting the dope wasn't enough and I relapsed for a couple of weeks. THAT'S when I was done.

I'm not a bad person, but I am an RA and I have to work, every single day, at doing the right thing.

To be honest, if someone was doing the things YOU are doing for her, I'd still be using. I'd probably be dead, just like my XABF is. I loved that man, dearly, but I refused to be dragged down with him.

I HAD to take care of me, and let him do what he was going to do, just as I did with the OTHER two XABF's I had. It hurts me that he never got it, but it's a risk we A's take. Even with my nursing training, had I been with him, I'd have been high and seriously doubt I could have saved him.

You CAN love someone but let them go. He knew I'd be there (as a friend) if he got his act together. He didn't want to.

As long as you're focused on her, and what she's going through, you're losing you. You're being dragged down with her. You have to grieve the fact that she's not what you want her to be.

Honestly, you don't even know who she is. If she's not high, she's wanting to GET high and plotting how to do it. She will tell you what you want to hear, because she wants you to keep enabling her.

If she REALLY wants to get clean and into recovery, she'll do it. You're just making it harder for her to get to that point.

The old saying of "nothing changes if nothing changes" works here. You keep doing what YOU'RE doing and she's going to keep doing what SHE's doing.

I won't deny that it's probably the hardest thing to do, but as long as you stand by her, while she's using, you're doing a lot of damage.

PLEASE focus on you. I think if you got honest about what you want, you'd see you're not getting any of it. Give up the fairytale of her getting clean and ya'll living happily together forever. It takes TIME in recovery to even figure out who WE are.

One more thing...the people who DID enable me (XABF), I resent what he did. There's a good chance she will feel the same about you. Is it right or fair? Probalby not, but it is what it is.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Kindeyes

I believe that addicts are in pain. I have a great deal of compassion for the pain they must be in.....but for my own sanity........I can't "feel" their pain because I don't have the benefit of drugs to make it tolerable. Compassion-yes. Boundaries-yes. Love-yes. But thinking that we can save them from their addiction is an emotional prison sentence for ourselves.

gentle hugs