am i losing it?
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
am i losing it?
I just cant seem to quit crying too, any time I shut a door and am alone.
I just talked to my son, for we hadnt really spoken in days.
he looks so skinny, he stays up on computer all night, and just looks sad and lost.
he is not drinking or doing drugs, no money for that, and never leaves the house.
i was reading about suicide, and thought i'd feel him out, since he is so quiet and since i told him that he has to be out the first of the month.
he and i just cant talk. he thinks i need help, and that he is doing all he can. no jobs. etc. he said that he calls places, instead of riding a bike there, not to waste time.
small town, not much here. i am telling him about a shelter near by, which could help him, and i thing that it is near enough to resources to give him an opportunity that he does not have here.
i told him that as long as he is comfortable (he laughed saying he is depressed and miserable here), that he would not try as hard as he needs to.
i told him to pretend i am dead- what would he do if i was? would he survive. he says, yes, of course.
he is proud . he has been dealing with the medical bills after his sinus surgery. they told us he qualifiedfor total financial aid, but are sending him bills. at least he is dealing with it, instead of throwing them away unread. he needs to figure out what to do about that, and i have been hands off- tho i could probably take care of that problem pretty quickly.
i am so full of tears that i think i will not be able to ever be happy again. i feel such sadness, that it is overwhelming me. it's not the end of the world, and i am so at a looss of what to say to him, in fear of enabling, or getting drawn back into his denial arguments..
i just reminded him, of the first of the month deadline, it hurts so much to do that. especially when he is not drinking, or drugging. just being depressed and not trying hard to find a job. he is worried about computer access, too. i know that. he has friends, and probably lots of fun stuff , but it is not making him happy. he is very sad, and lost. i hope that this is going to help. but it seems like a no win situation, to me.
i am so sad today.i just feel like giving up, and i know that is not how i should be feeling. i wish i could get some strength from this codependent no more book.
what the heck is wrong with me!?!
chicory
I just talked to my son, for we hadnt really spoken in days.
he looks so skinny, he stays up on computer all night, and just looks sad and lost.
he is not drinking or doing drugs, no money for that, and never leaves the house.
i was reading about suicide, and thought i'd feel him out, since he is so quiet and since i told him that he has to be out the first of the month.
he and i just cant talk. he thinks i need help, and that he is doing all he can. no jobs. etc. he said that he calls places, instead of riding a bike there, not to waste time.
small town, not much here. i am telling him about a shelter near by, which could help him, and i thing that it is near enough to resources to give him an opportunity that he does not have here.
i told him that as long as he is comfortable (he laughed saying he is depressed and miserable here), that he would not try as hard as he needs to.
i told him to pretend i am dead- what would he do if i was? would he survive. he says, yes, of course.
he is proud . he has been dealing with the medical bills after his sinus surgery. they told us he qualifiedfor total financial aid, but are sending him bills. at least he is dealing with it, instead of throwing them away unread. he needs to figure out what to do about that, and i have been hands off- tho i could probably take care of that problem pretty quickly.
i am so full of tears that i think i will not be able to ever be happy again. i feel such sadness, that it is overwhelming me. it's not the end of the world, and i am so at a looss of what to say to him, in fear of enabling, or getting drawn back into his denial arguments..
i just reminded him, of the first of the month deadline, it hurts so much to do that. especially when he is not drinking, or drugging. just being depressed and not trying hard to find a job. he is worried about computer access, too. i know that. he has friends, and probably lots of fun stuff , but it is not making him happy. he is very sad, and lost. i hope that this is going to help. but it seems like a no win situation, to me.
i am so sad today.i just feel like giving up, and i know that is not how i should be feeling. i wish i could get some strength from this codependent no more book.
what the heck is wrong with me!?!
chicory
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,872
What is your son doing as far as finding a place to go when the first of the month rolls around? Is he doing anything, or is he just continuing to do the same nothing he has been doing all along?
Again, not to sound harsh, but it seems to me like he is just biding his time hoping that if he appears pathetic enough, you will change you mind about making him leave. This situation has been going on so long now that it is ingrained in both of you. You are trying to move past it, but him sitting around looking pitiful makes you doubt that you are doing the right thing.
Chicory, you ARE doing the right thing, but until he is actually out of the house, his appearance and demeanor and "poor pitiful me" attitude is staring you in the face, causing you to feel guilty about doing what probably should have been done years ago.
Hang in there and don't back down. Go ahead and cry if you feel like it. I did a lot of crying myself, but I knew I couldn't live like that anymore, and neither can you.
Again, not to sound harsh, but it seems to me like he is just biding his time hoping that if he appears pathetic enough, you will change you mind about making him leave. This situation has been going on so long now that it is ingrained in both of you. You are trying to move past it, but him sitting around looking pitiful makes you doubt that you are doing the right thing.
Chicory, you ARE doing the right thing, but until he is actually out of the house, his appearance and demeanor and "poor pitiful me" attitude is staring you in the face, causing you to feel guilty about doing what probably should have been done years ago.
Hang in there and don't back down. Go ahead and cry if you feel like it. I did a lot of crying myself, but I knew I couldn't live like that anymore, and neither can you.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Why wouldna anyone cry for a dream lost?
But it may NOT be lost, hon.
It's just coming about - in *its* own way.
I think Suki maybe be right -
he's beating you over the head with his helplessness.
And it's working.
Frankly- I'd be more worried if you didn't feel anything.
But it may NOT be lost, hon.
It's just coming about - in *its* own way.
I think Suki maybe be right -
he's beating you over the head with his helplessness.
And it's working.
Frankly- I'd be more worried if you didn't feel anything.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Hi Suki,
He is not doing anything, as he really has no other option than to go to the shelter here in town. he couch hopped for most of his adult life, and has no one who even calls him, nor any friends he calls. He will just be on the street.
He is not acting pitiful , he just is. he is not the sort to act- too proud, in a very dysfunctional way.
he is doing more since i told him he has to go, tho. that is good. he is at least calling and doing a little. more than nothing.
i figure that the knowing of having no where but the shelter, and that i am going to get his car gone- whether junk it or donate it, he will hopefully do something.
He stays in his room- does not try to look pitiful, but he does not really know much about really trying hard. he will learn, hopefully.
he tried to make it about drugs and alcohol, which he is not doing, just cause there is no money. and i told him that if he had never drank or smoked pot i would still be making him leave. just cause he needs to live his life, and i need mine.
thanks for your help- hugs chicory
He is not doing anything, as he really has no other option than to go to the shelter here in town. he couch hopped for most of his adult life, and has no one who even calls him, nor any friends he calls. He will just be on the street.
He is not acting pitiful , he just is. he is not the sort to act- too proud, in a very dysfunctional way.
he is doing more since i told him he has to go, tho. that is good. he is at least calling and doing a little. more than nothing.
i figure that the knowing of having no where but the shelter, and that i am going to get his car gone- whether junk it or donate it, he will hopefully do something.
He stays in his room- does not try to look pitiful, but he does not really know much about really trying hard. he will learn, hopefully.
he tried to make it about drugs and alcohol, which he is not doing, just cause there is no money. and i told him that if he had never drank or smoked pot i would still be making him leave. just cause he needs to live his life, and i need mine.
thanks for your help- hugs chicory
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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You are right- he is beating me over the head with his "woe is me- no jobs- no future" attitude.
frankly, if i were a man in need of a job, everyone in town would know my face.
what a mess. I will keep reading.
frankly, if i were a man in need of a job, everyone in town would know my face.
what a mess. I will keep reading.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Chicory - I have been where you are. I have spent months sick with worry over the very same issues you are talking about. We let our son go, he knew his ability to manipulate us was finally wearing thin. Finally it didn't matter what he said or did, he was on his own. His dad paid for a cheap scuzzy apartment just to have a roof over his head but he knew that wouldn't last forever either. He got a job about 4-5 weeks ago. He never fails to show up. He has stopped drugging (or so it seems) and says he doesn't have money for it anyway. He went to visit his psychiatrist ON HIS OWN and got back on his meds. Yesterday he called to tell me that he's found a roommate situation on craigslist -- with a law student wanting to share expenses -- and he's going to move in on Wednesday when he gets paid. When I talk to him I hear my son. I hear someone who has pride in himself again. I hear that he is learning much. He visits and I send him home with food for his fridge. He is sincerely grateful. I still hold my breath waiting for the other shoe to drop, I won't pretend I don't. But for now, it looks like there is at least some progress in the right direction...and he's doing it on his own.
It's not easy. I know that. But there is hope in letting them go and -- the best part -- you will find a new kind of serenity when he's not under your roof. It's time to focus on you, my friend. He is grown now. Let him go.
((((HUGS)))))
It's not easy. I know that. But there is hope in letting them go and -- the best part -- you will find a new kind of serenity when he's not under your roof. It's time to focus on you, my friend. He is grown now. Let him go.
((((HUGS)))))
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
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By the way - the job he got is hauling junk for a scrap company. It's extremely hard work in this 95 degree heat (+80% humidity) making $8.00 an hour.
I think now he is understanding more clearly what he threw away by jacking around in college. He could have been into his 3rd year by now.
I think now he is understanding more clearly what he threw away by jacking around in college. He could have been into his 3rd year by now.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
If I recall, he's 38 years old and seems to have remained dependent despite having crossed that legal threshhold, 20 years ago. Sounds like he has never had to accept responsibility for himself because someone or another always made it easy for him to remain dependent.
You are both embarking on the next day of the rest of your independent lives.
What do you plan to do differently to fill the void of taking care of him on and off, for decades? Would therapy help you grieve for the life he never gave himself and help you let go of the outcome?
You are both embarking on the next day of the rest of your independent lives.
What do you plan to do differently to fill the void of taking care of him on and off, for decades? Would therapy help you grieve for the life he never gave himself and help you let go of the outcome?
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Actually, OTL, I am trying to do things differently. I am not asking him questions, about where is he applying, what did he do today, etc. I am not taking care of his medical problems . Not trying to make his moods better.
coming from a long life of codie behavior (two alchies for parents) I have a lot to learn about making a life for myself. I am trying not to depend on my daughters for happiness, tho the grandbabies are wonderful. I am trying to deal alone, with the help of everyone here.
do you think that it is necessary to get therapy for a lost dream for your child, or is it something that will get better with letting go?
I want to find a good support meeting.
It's not easy to do the right things, when you have spent your life a codie. no excuse- i plead sickness.
any suggestions?
thank you for posting-
even if it hurts, i am trying to consider every opinion . what the heck do I know?
chicory
coming from a long life of codie behavior (two alchies for parents) I have a lot to learn about making a life for myself. I am trying not to depend on my daughters for happiness, tho the grandbabies are wonderful. I am trying to deal alone, with the help of everyone here.
do you think that it is necessary to get therapy for a lost dream for your child, or is it something that will get better with letting go?
I want to find a good support meeting.
It's not easy to do the right things, when you have spent your life a codie. no excuse- i plead sickness.
any suggestions?
thank you for posting-
even if it hurts, i am trying to consider every opinion . what the heck do I know?
chicory
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Therapy was necessary for me.
Guy used EMDR therapy which is kookie stuff that is often quite effective with post traumatictic stress situations. I define trauma as finding yourself in a situation you did not cause, cannot control and cannot change. Either you find a way to cope or you either shut down or implode.
For me, it strengthened the buffer zone between me and situations beyond my control.
This forum serves to remind me that I am just one lousy decision away from my own demon, ego.
Guy used EMDR therapy which is kookie stuff that is often quite effective with post traumatictic stress situations. I define trauma as finding yourself in a situation you did not cause, cannot control and cannot change. Either you find a way to cope or you either shut down or implode.
For me, it strengthened the buffer zone between me and situations beyond my control.
This forum serves to remind me that I am just one lousy decision away from my own demon, ego.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
As the month drags on, the more difficult it will be for you. You will be second guessing yourself over and over again.
Keep in mind that this decision was made to help him, to help him to become an independent being, a right that he has been deprived of due to enabling. He is 38, and he needs to move forward with his life.
So, is he looking for a job? Perhaps he needs to get off the computer and start hoofing it, looking for a job...I know that no one will knock on his door and offer him a job.
If he does not have a job, then he will have to go to a shelter, is he lining anything up?
Probably not, he is depending on you to change your mind and let him stay and continue to plasy games on the computer.
Please keep your resolve, think about it this way...what if something happens to you, does he have any ability to take care of himself...I'd say no.
I know how hard this is, but, you both are entitled to your own lives.
Keep in mind that this decision was made to help him, to help him to become an independent being, a right that he has been deprived of due to enabling. He is 38, and he needs to move forward with his life.
So, is he looking for a job? Perhaps he needs to get off the computer and start hoofing it, looking for a job...I know that no one will knock on his door and offer him a job.
If he does not have a job, then he will have to go to a shelter, is he lining anything up?
Probably not, he is depending on you to change your mind and let him stay and continue to plasy games on the computer.
Please keep your resolve, think about it this way...what if something happens to you, does he have any ability to take care of himself...I'd say no.
I know how hard this is, but, you both are entitled to your own lives.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
chicory
I understand all of those crazy emotions you're feeling right now. My AS came to us four weeks ago saying he wanted to get sober....again. He stayed in our house for two days, he ate, he slept, he went through withdrawal but he started doing "the same ol' stuff" playing with my head. He finally said "I'm leaving" and I just said "ok". And he left. He expected me to plead and beg him to stay.....I didn't.
It hurt like hell. It still hurts like hell. I haven't heard from him in four weeks. I don't know where he is or if he's eating or if he's sleeping in his car. I don't know if he's using but I think it's safe to assume he is. And what do I feel? Guilty.....but I'm trying to get over it.
It is hard to send them out to the streets. But THEY got themselves there......we didn't do it. I don't know about your son, but mine pissed away more opportunities than most people have IN A LIFETIME......and he's only 29. He owns that. I don't.
I wish I could give you a gentle hug in person......because no matter what anyone says and no matter how old he is......it still hurts to see your son hurt. But it is pain that he has brought on himself and he needs to feel it in order to want NOT to feel it anymore.
I'm right there with you......
gentle hugs
I understand all of those crazy emotions you're feeling right now. My AS came to us four weeks ago saying he wanted to get sober....again. He stayed in our house for two days, he ate, he slept, he went through withdrawal but he started doing "the same ol' stuff" playing with my head. He finally said "I'm leaving" and I just said "ok". And he left. He expected me to plead and beg him to stay.....I didn't.
It hurt like hell. It still hurts like hell. I haven't heard from him in four weeks. I don't know where he is or if he's eating or if he's sleeping in his car. I don't know if he's using but I think it's safe to assume he is. And what do I feel? Guilty.....but I'm trying to get over it.
It is hard to send them out to the streets. But THEY got themselves there......we didn't do it. I don't know about your son, but mine pissed away more opportunities than most people have IN A LIFETIME......and he's only 29. He owns that. I don't.
I wish I could give you a gentle hug in person......because no matter what anyone says and no matter how old he is......it still hurts to see your son hurt. But it is pain that he has brought on himself and he needs to feel it in order to want NOT to feel it anymore.
I'm right there with you......
gentle hugs
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 81
((Chicory))
I admire you that you were brave enough to set a date of independence. It sounds like it needed to be done. I will find myself in your position someday soon, my son is 25 and same thing, no job and no desire to find one. I used to always blame it on his youth, I used to believe that once he became an adult, he would become independent. Now I know that he will need to be quite literally pushed out of the nest. Again, I admire you that you set this date and I know it is painful but I truly believe like all the others have stated that you are doing the right thing. Stay strong.
I admire you that you were brave enough to set a date of independence. It sounds like it needed to be done. I will find myself in your position someday soon, my son is 25 and same thing, no job and no desire to find one. I used to always blame it on his youth, I used to believe that once he became an adult, he would become independent. Now I know that he will need to be quite literally pushed out of the nest. Again, I admire you that you set this date and I know it is painful but I truly believe like all the others have stated that you are doing the right thing. Stay strong.
it is what it is
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Griffin GA
Posts: 454
Chicory - i am so sorry you are in such a difficult situation with your son - my AS is 26 and has also squandered away many opportunities - it truely does hurt like hell to realize that he has not accomplished in his life what i know he wanted to accomplish - there are still possibilities but also more obstacles - i am praying for you and your son that you both find the strength you need to step forward into your own independent lives -
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Originally Posted by anvilhead 
i'd suggest having a calendar up in a easy for everyone to see location with the first circled in RED. i would also have MY plan B thought out and ready to put into action if come the 1st of the month he's still sitting there.
i find it interesting that you spoke earlier about YOUR lost dream for your child. what did that dream look like to you? what was YOUR plan for him? i think putting that down into words could be quite illuminating....what happened between the 18 year old getting out of high school and the 38 year old you're trying to finally get out of your house? and is now ok for you to finally LET GO of what you wanted him to be, and just let him be who he is, warts and all? are you disappointed at his failure to achieve your preset goals? did you have expectations of HIS achievements? is your self worth in any way tied to how HIS life is going?
or was it perhaps the converse? did you have such an underestimation of his abilities to survive on his own, that you kept him artificially dependent on you, to keep him "safe"? so many of us codie/enables come to believe that WE are the power that can save them from themselves. we tell ourselves we know them best, we are their only real hope, they HAVE nobody else......but us. and we take on that role of Rescuer, Savior, Protector and Defender. and we strip them of any culpability for their own lives, as well as the dignity of living it.
we have to ask ourselves the tough questions...because this is as much if not more about US than it is about THEM.....our defects and shortcomings. as you get ready to release him....which do you fear more........his failure.......or his success?
if he was an astronaut, he'd be taking risks with his life and there wouldn't be a thing you do about it (they don't let mom's go on the space ship). if he was in the armed forces, he'd be facing dangers daily and there wouldn't be a thing you could do about it. if he was an indy race car driver.........the guy they send to the defuse the bomb......crab fisherman.......logger............each day he'd be exposed to potential danger and each day that would be for him to work thru. he could be living in outer mongolia with lousy cell service and you might not hear from him for days, weeks or months on end. regardless of what he does next, it's his to own.
i find it interesting that you spoke earlier about YOUR lost dream for your child. what did that dream look like to you? what was YOUR plan for him? i think putting that down into words could be quite illuminating....what happened between the 18 year old getting out of high school and the 38 year old you're trying to finally get out of your house? and is now ok for you to finally LET GO of what you wanted him to be, and just let him be who he is, warts and all? are you disappointed at his failure to achieve your preset goals? did you have expectations of HIS achievements? is your self worth in any way tied to how HIS life is going?
or was it perhaps the converse? did you have such an underestimation of his abilities to survive on his own, that you kept him artificially dependent on you, to keep him "safe"? so many of us codie/enables come to believe that WE are the power that can save them from themselves. we tell ourselves we know them best, we are their only real hope, they HAVE nobody else......but us. and we take on that role of Rescuer, Savior, Protector and Defender. and we strip them of any culpability for their own lives, as well as the dignity of living it.
we have to ask ourselves the tough questions...because this is as much if not more about US than it is about THEM.....our defects and shortcomings. as you get ready to release him....which do you fear more........his failure.......or his success?
if he was an astronaut, he'd be taking risks with his life and there wouldn't be a thing you do about it (they don't let mom's go on the space ship). if he was in the armed forces, he'd be facing dangers daily and there wouldn't be a thing you could do about it. if he was an indy race car driver.........the guy they send to the defuse the bomb......crab fisherman.......logger............each day he'd be exposed to potential danger and each day that would be for him to work thru. he could be living in outer mongolia with lousy cell service and you might not hear from him for days, weeks or months on end. regardless of what he does next, it's his to own.
what happened between the 18 year old getting out of high school and the 38 year old you're trying to finally get out of your house? and is now ok for you to finally LET GO of what you wanted him to be, and just let him be who he is, warts and all? are you disappointed at his failure to achieve your preset goals? did you have expectations of HIS achievements? is your self worth in any way tied to how HIS life is going?
I have never had any other dream for my children other than that they would be able to be functional and that they would be able to achieve "their" dreams.
I had no preset goals for any of them.
or was it perhaps the converse? did you have such an underestimation of his abilities to survive on his own, that you kept him artificially dependent on you, to keep him "safe"? so many of us codie/enables come to believe that WE are the power that can save them from themselves. we tell ourselves we know them best, we are their only real hope, they HAVE nobody else......but us. and we take on that role of Rescuer, Savior, Protector and Defender. and we strip them of any culpability for their own lives,[QUOTE
no- sorry anvilhead- hope you are not studying to be a therapist or anything.
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you know, it seems like everyone says to the codie about their alcoholic's problem "You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.
well, about my sons lack of ambition- Maybe I didnt cause it, cant control it and I cant cure it. Maybe he is just a selfish jerk. A lot like his dad- sorry to say.
My son's choices are not my fault. I was a good mom, not perfect, but i really tried to raise them to be happy, caring people.
This forum is for compassion, not inferences of blame.
I am here for support. If you cant give that, its ok.
well, about my sons lack of ambition- Maybe I didnt cause it, cant control it and I cant cure it. Maybe he is just a selfish jerk. A lot like his dad- sorry to say.
My son's choices are not my fault. I was a good mom, not perfect, but i really tried to raise them to be happy, caring people.
This forum is for compassion, not inferences of blame.
I am here for support. If you cant give that, its ok.
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