It seems their is no hope for an addict....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
It seems their is no hope for an addict....
I've posted my own junk here, but in reading lately it seems that addicts are so toxic that their is no hope at all. Is that because we here @ SR sought help via online or that their is addiction really that bad. I know for me I hope for my xah, but my hope/life doesn't hinge on that anymore. It is almost like once they take that first hit they're dead to society here on SR. I know that my xah is very severe, but I'm getting the vibe on SR that their is no hope until they prove it. As if he's so far gone that he's not human.
I'm sincerely asking this, not trying to be smart @ all. It just seems that he's a lost cause. Maybe he is~ I guess I don't see it for that him right now.
Personally ~ I'm done with xah, but I still feel that he can get his $hit together ifhe chooses. I'll admire it from the crowd observing it unfortunately from the outside.
I'm sincerely asking this, not trying to be smart @ all. It just seems that he's a lost cause. Maybe he is~ I guess I don't see it for that him right now.
Personally ~ I'm done with xah, but I still feel that he can get his $hit together ifhe chooses. I'll admire it from the crowd observing it unfortunately from the outside.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
It makes my heart sad to read that, Callie.
I know you still have a lot of wounds to heal, and I'm trying to remember that right now.
In 1986 I was dying, literally.
I weighed 109 pounds, had blown out all the veins in my arms, and was pregnant.
I was too weak to hold my head up for very long.
I was 28 years old and I was dying.
God willing and the creek doesn't rise, I'll celebrate 20 years of continuous sobriety/clean time on August 5th.
I'm not perfect, never will be, but I'm a far cry from that 28 year old emaciated shell of a person who was dying.
I'm doing everything in my power to improve my life today.
I care about other people and their pain.
It's no longer all about me.
I'd like to think that people see hope when they meet me.
I know you still have a lot of wounds to heal, and I'm trying to remember that right now.
In 1986 I was dying, literally.
I weighed 109 pounds, had blown out all the veins in my arms, and was pregnant.
I was too weak to hold my head up for very long.
I was 28 years old and I was dying.
God willing and the creek doesn't rise, I'll celebrate 20 years of continuous sobriety/clean time on August 5th.
I'm not perfect, never will be, but I'm a far cry from that 28 year old emaciated shell of a person who was dying.
I'm doing everything in my power to improve my life today.
I care about other people and their pain.
It's no longer all about me.
I'd like to think that people see hope when they meet me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
“I love you, I believe in you, and I know you are very capable, and I’m not going to tolerate unacceptable behavior, being treated badly, or subjecting my children to dysfunction”. I think this message gets blurred with all the details and taking things personally.
I stopped drinking after 20 years of solid numbosity. Completely checked out.
It can be done, and that is why I won't give up on my children, but I will also not enable their dysfunction anymore. Instead of not subjecting my children, I will no longer subject myself to their ill behavior.
I declare freedom from chaos.
Beth
Last edited by wicked; 07-30-2010 at 06:41 PM. Reason: changed from 29 to 20 years.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
callie,
i think what you're saying is that the tone here on s/r is that we need to kick these scumbags to the curb and cauterize so that they can't continue their spree of destruction.
but of course they are not scumbags, just as no one of god's lost souls are.
i think we hear an awful lot of that casting them in the role of the devil, and generalizations, and the notion that they are lost forever, because of the incredible pain some of us are in, and our long history of experiences.
but we also see optimism, and beautiful posts about recovery and new life. so many of our beloved members here on f & f are shining examples of that.
did something stir some things up in you?
you seem to still sort of be dreaming of a happy ending with your xah.
i think what you're saying is that the tone here on s/r is that we need to kick these scumbags to the curb and cauterize so that they can't continue their spree of destruction.
but of course they are not scumbags, just as no one of god's lost souls are.
i think we hear an awful lot of that casting them in the role of the devil, and generalizations, and the notion that they are lost forever, because of the incredible pain some of us are in, and our long history of experiences.
but we also see optimism, and beautiful posts about recovery and new life. so many of our beloved members here on f & f are shining examples of that.
did something stir some things up in you?
you seem to still sort of be dreaming of a happy ending with your xah.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Did he relaspe Callie?
We can only change ourselves. We can't change other people. It's really not about hope. I mean - we hope for world peace. We hope they find a cure for cancer. But those "hopes" dont affect our day to day emotions for the most part. But when we start hoping on an individual level where our hopes for another become expectations for their behavior, then we leave the realm of hope and set ourselves up for disappointment.
Drug addiction gets to a point where it becomes a disease of choices. We can "hope" people make good choices. But we can't force them too.
And we need to stay out of it. Because being tangled up emotionally with an addict makes us as sick as them. And that... is a choice too.
Sometimes I still get sad that my ex is choosing the life he is choosing. (But mostly I'm just pissed off at him for hurting his beautiful son.) And it IS a choice. Once an addict (and I'm talking about me here - and other recovering addicts on this website and in my life) gets some recovery under his/her belt, once you get yourself clean, you CHOOSE to let your disease control you.
My ex knows what it takes to get clean. He has been clean before. He has a family. He has the tools he needs. He knows the consequences of using.
All this, and he still uses? Yes. It is a disease. A brain disease that he chooses not to deal with. He'd rather just use drugs.
Anyway, I was upset by my 5 year old telling me that when he gets big he's going to go live with his daddy. But then he laughed and said, "mama, who will take me to school?" I looked at him and said, "Your daddy is sick honey." And then I smiled and rolled my eyes and tapped my head with my finger. I'm not sure how my son took that. And I don't give a rip.
Anyway. Sorry to highjack.
What triggered you? How are you? What's been going on with you? How's your ex doing? It's important that we talk about it. That's how we get through our addiction to them.
We can only change ourselves. We can't change other people. It's really not about hope. I mean - we hope for world peace. We hope they find a cure for cancer. But those "hopes" dont affect our day to day emotions for the most part. But when we start hoping on an individual level where our hopes for another become expectations for their behavior, then we leave the realm of hope and set ourselves up for disappointment.
Drug addiction gets to a point where it becomes a disease of choices. We can "hope" people make good choices. But we can't force them too.
And we need to stay out of it. Because being tangled up emotionally with an addict makes us as sick as them. And that... is a choice too.
Sometimes I still get sad that my ex is choosing the life he is choosing. (But mostly I'm just pissed off at him for hurting his beautiful son.) And it IS a choice. Once an addict (and I'm talking about me here - and other recovering addicts on this website and in my life) gets some recovery under his/her belt, once you get yourself clean, you CHOOSE to let your disease control you.
My ex knows what it takes to get clean. He has been clean before. He has a family. He has the tools he needs. He knows the consequences of using.
All this, and he still uses? Yes. It is a disease. A brain disease that he chooses not to deal with. He'd rather just use drugs.
Anyway, I was upset by my 5 year old telling me that when he gets big he's going to go live with his daddy. But then he laughed and said, "mama, who will take me to school?" I looked at him and said, "Your daddy is sick honey." And then I smiled and rolled my eyes and tapped my head with my finger. I'm not sure how my son took that. And I don't give a rip.
Anyway. Sorry to highjack.
What triggered you? How are you? What's been going on with you? How's your ex doing? It's important that we talk about it. That's how we get through our addiction to them.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: My Room
Posts: 138
i think what you're saying is that the tone here on s/r is that we need to kick these scumbags to the curb and cauterize so that they can't continue their spree of destruction.
but of course they are not scumbags, just as no one of god's lost souls are.
i think we hear an awful lot of that casting them in the role of the devil, and generalizations, and the notion that they are lost forever, because of the incredible pain some of us are in, and our long history of experiences.
but of course they are not scumbags, just as no one of god's lost souls are.
i think we hear an awful lot of that casting them in the role of the devil, and generalizations, and the notion that they are lost forever, because of the incredible pain some of us are in, and our long history of experiences.
casting them in these roles. .. well, we didn't cast them. honestly, they cast themselves. they have behaved disrespectfully and horribly, to themselves and to us.
we still love them, but i think it it necessary to focus on the negatives when you are trying to save yourself from being swallowed up by someone else's addiction. of course there is hope! there is always hope.
but i need my anger to stay strong and set boundaries that protect ME. because if i don't do that, i will cave every time on the basis of hope.
i think the demonizing (if you will) is just a necessary evil we have to use at some points so that we can really help ourselves. my two cents.
i always have hope though. and i'm glad i do. i'm proud of my hope!
thank you for bringing up this issue, callie. i really do think it needs to be talked about.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
Just having a bad day I guess, I was reading here and seeing so many new people. So many of us who have left because it was the only way to save ourselves. I just see so many addicts who lose everything.
Xah didn't relapse. I hadn't talked with him in a while, but did yesterday. He called to see how the kid's camp went. He's still clean, but nursing an absessed tooth. He can't take pain medication and he's pretty miserable on antibiotics. His attitude seems to be slipping. Since I'd had all of his mail forwarded and he's starting to see the devastation financially he's facing. He talked about how hopeless he felt. He goes into treatment for 4 months mid August (that's when the next session starts). It's inpatient. Beyond that he has no major plans, no job, no nothing lined up. There was talk of just F it all.
That was hard for me to hear I guess. He's not used drugs for 6-7 months now. Not sure if it was the tooth pain that was speaking, but still hard for me to hear. I look @ our two beautiful kids. THAT is worth fighting for.
Another reminder of why I shouldn't be speaking with him beyond business, kids etc. I've been invited out with friends several times and I can slowly feel myself feeling human and normal again. When I hear talk like that from him it only brings me down.
Xah didn't relapse. I hadn't talked with him in a while, but did yesterday. He called to see how the kid's camp went. He's still clean, but nursing an absessed tooth. He can't take pain medication and he's pretty miserable on antibiotics. His attitude seems to be slipping. Since I'd had all of his mail forwarded and he's starting to see the devastation financially he's facing. He talked about how hopeless he felt. He goes into treatment for 4 months mid August (that's when the next session starts). It's inpatient. Beyond that he has no major plans, no job, no nothing lined up. There was talk of just F it all.
That was hard for me to hear I guess. He's not used drugs for 6-7 months now. Not sure if it was the tooth pain that was speaking, but still hard for me to hear. I look @ our two beautiful kids. THAT is worth fighting for.
Another reminder of why I shouldn't be speaking with him beyond business, kids etc. I've been invited out with friends several times and I can slowly feel myself feeling human and normal again. When I hear talk like that from him it only brings me down.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Callie. He's been in jail for most of the last... what... year or two? And not using drugs while in jail for 6 months is NOT the same thing as recovery.
And if his attitude is slipping... and you recognize it.... well you know the deal. You've had a ring side seat to his madness before.
Keep on truckin' girlfriend. :-) It gets easier to make wise choices for ourselves and our children the more we practice.
Firmer boundaries for yourself around the conversations you will allow yourself to have with him may help you detach from his problems, complaints, and potential relapse. It seemed weird to me to have to set rules for myself about how I interact with certain people, but it sure has helped me maintain my serenity over the years.
And if his attitude is slipping... and you recognize it.... well you know the deal. You've had a ring side seat to his madness before.
Keep on truckin' girlfriend. :-) It gets easier to make wise choices for ourselves and our children the more we practice.
Firmer boundaries for yourself around the conversations you will allow yourself to have with him may help you detach from his problems, complaints, and potential relapse. It seemed weird to me to have to set rules for myself about how I interact with certain people, but it sure has helped me maintain my serenity over the years.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
My apologies to the RA's. Didn't mean to insult anyone, it just seems that recovered addicts are few and far between. Maybe I need to spend some tome on the SA board. 
. Sad to see so many new people and really it's the same advice given again and again, no matter WHAT the situation is.
Littlebird, your post made me remember that if they're still alive, there is always hope. Gentle hugs to you...
. Sad to see so many new people and really it's the same advice given again and again, no matter WHAT the situation is. Littlebird, your post made me remember that if they're still alive, there is always hope. Gentle hugs to you...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
it just seems that recovered addicts are few and far between.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
Addicts who are serious about their recovery ARE few and far between. No denying it. And an addict who is serious about recovery knows one thing for sure - there is ALWAYS a potential for relapse. They are NEVER truly recovered from their addiction.
Yep, you're right. He's nowhere near this right now, he definately sounds on the fence. More on the clean side, but I don't know. I know that's his to figure out.
I think part of my problem right now is a natural process. I worked so hard to remove myself from him physically and legally (divorce). Now I'm in the midst of emotionally and mentally removing myself. We talk less and less as time goes on, know less and less about the goings on. I've been invited out socially more lately ~ nothing romantic, just friends hanging out. I'm doing a 1/2 marathon with two good friends in October. (wth was I thinking?? ) so we're training for that.
I'm caring, paying for a house and raising two kids. I am doing this solo and I'm actually getting better and better with each passing day.
I am doing the last step in removing myself from a 23 year relationship. I've been with him more than 1/2 my life. I'm not even 40 yet. I am envisioning climbing out of a dungeon, but I'm going a different path than xah. Always before it was me trying to drag us both out. As I'm climbing out I look back and he's still down there. I know it's something that I have to do and will continue to do. Just sad and foreign to be doing it alone without dragging him along.
I am also trying to swallow a huge pill (no pun intended ) in realizing that I was actually wrong about his capabilities. Not saying he's NOT capable, but he's sure not proven he's capable.
Just venting, whining I guess. Thanks for listening guys. Sometimes this all just seems so hopeless for an addict. I know the odds are NOT high in recovery, but we all want to believe somewhat I guess.
Yep, you're right. He's nowhere near this right now, he definately sounds on the fence. More on the clean side, but I don't know. I know that's his to figure out.
I think part of my problem right now is a natural process. I worked so hard to remove myself from him physically and legally (divorce). Now I'm in the midst of emotionally and mentally removing myself. We talk less and less as time goes on, know less and less about the goings on. I've been invited out socially more lately ~ nothing romantic, just friends hanging out. I'm doing a 1/2 marathon with two good friends in October. (wth was I thinking?? ) so we're training for that.
I'm caring, paying for a house and raising two kids. I am doing this solo and I'm actually getting better and better with each passing day.
I am doing the last step in removing myself from a 23 year relationship. I've been with him more than 1/2 my life. I'm not even 40 yet. I am envisioning climbing out of a dungeon, but I'm going a different path than xah. Always before it was me trying to drag us both out. As I'm climbing out I look back and he's still down there. I know it's something that I have to do and will continue to do. Just sad and foreign to be doing it alone without dragging him along.
I am also trying to swallow a huge pill (no pun intended
) in realizing that I was actually wrong about his capabilities. Not saying he's NOT capable, but he's sure not proven he's capable. Just venting, whining I guess. Thanks for listening guys. Sometimes this all just seems so hopeless for an addict. I know the odds are NOT high in recovery, but we all want to believe somewhat I guess.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Callie 
I've posted my own junk here, but in reading lately it seems that addicts are so toxic that their is no hope at all. Is that because we here @ SR sought help via online or that their is addiction really that bad. I know for me I hope for my xah, but my hope/life doesn't hinge on that anymore. It is almost like once they take that first hit they're dead to society here on SR. I know that my xah is very severe, but I'm getting the vibe on SR that their is no hope until they prove it. As if he's so far gone that he's not human.
I'm sincerely asking this, not trying to be smart @ all. It just seems that he's a lost cause. Maybe he is~ I guess I don't see it for that him right now.
Personally ~ I'm done with xah, but I still feel that he can get his $hit together ifhe chooses. I'll admire it from the crowd observing it unfortunately from the outside.
I'm sincerely asking this, not trying to be smart @ all. It just seems that he's a lost cause. Maybe he is~ I guess I don't see it for that him right now.
Personally ~ I'm done with xah, but I still feel that he can get his $hit together ifhe chooses. I'll admire it from the crowd observing it unfortunately from the outside.
When I first came here many months ago, I wanted someone to say "Your AS is a wonderful person and here is how to help him." But instead I got "How are you helping yourself?" I was like...Huh? How is helping me helping him? I came here for a way to help HIM not me. "I" would feel better if he was better.
I would read posts from girlfriends and wives that basically said "Kick the addict to the curb" and I kept thinking there must be another way and I'd never give up because he is such a wonderful person sober and all that rot.
I kept hearing that he has to do this himself but then I thought "But how can he, this stuff is addictive. It is not a choice and his body is craving this stuff. How could anyone fight such a tremendous urge?" OR I'd think "Well he is trying but the addiction is just too powerful." I had (and to some extent still have) a problem with it being a "choice" in the broader sense of the word anyway. After all, would anyone "choose" to be an addict knowing how day to day life must feel?
My son luckily is not as severe as some but he is still an addict. I am grateful that he has times when he is sober for long periods. I don't think it really sunk in to me that, even with that on his side, he could stop until one day he was telling me about some problems in his life. I said "I know you'll probably get mad at me but since you brought it up I think that if you stop the drinking/drugs then everything else will fall into place." I was amazed when he replied calmly and said "I know and I need to stop. I can stop (and here was the amazing part to me)....if I really want to." The last 5 words really made it all click for me....finally. I had never had the impression that he COULD stop. I thought it had a hold of him. What I got from that conversation is that I now know he CAN stop when HE wants to. Before that conversation, I really had doubts. NOW all the advice that people give here makes sense.
I also get angry when outsiders don't understand addiction but how could they? Us families who know it up close and personal don't always understand it especially at first. I hate the negative connotations of addicts also.
When sober (and even when a little high), my son is a wonderful human being. I love being with him. He is a great worker with a great work ethic. He is a fantastic father. He is a way better father than the mother of my grandchildren and she is sober. There is just that one lil problem that crops up whenever he is faced with problems. He turns to substances. I think and hope that he is getting better as time goes by. I've seen positive as well as negative but addicts in general are not bad people. I know my son isn't and I'll never believe that. I will put up boundaries to protect myself but I'll always love him and hope he becomes the complete human being that I KNOW he is...somewhere inside there. Very sad, huh?
I'm guessing that is what you are feeling maybe but if I got it wrong that is how I am feeling for sure.
The best to you and all of us, Kari
it is what it is
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Griffin GA
Posts: 454
Freedom - I really needed to read what you have to offer. My son is 27 and in jail right now for drugs and burglary. The more I read on this website the more discouraged I got about the possibility of his ability to recover. I know it is up to him completely, but reading the pessimism about the condition here really was getting me down. I do understand it is an extremely difficult journey, but I was beginning to lose any faith that is was doable. Thank you for an encouraging message that at least fans a small flame of hope. And thank you Callie for voicing my feelings in such a sensitive way.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
