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Old 07-20-2010, 03:58 PM
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I'm thinking my way through the give and take so bear with me

In a hospital, different parts of our medical records are accessible by different personnel. All Rx are input by anyone able to prescribe. The pharmacy sees all of them.

All pharmacies everywhere see every prescription they've filled, for the last five years I think. They oversee our safety with the product they dispense, along with making sure medical/government guidelines are being met.

They don't see all of our prescriptions from everywhere, but insurance agencies do, as does the government when it comes to taxpayer funded programs.

There's a disconnect between all pharmacies, insurance agencies, and the government. It's costing us lives. It doesn't even have to be a narcotic for it to be deadly.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990 View Post
Doctor tied to 68 overdose deaths found guilty - Health - Addictions - msnbc.com

I followed the above case in Wichita as it unfolded. The doctor and his wife deserved the guilty verdict 100%.

Thanks so much for posting this Freedom. I think that some of the people replying to my posts are reading what they want to read and not what I am saying. I'm not blaming ethical and practical doctors. I'm blaming the ones that are in pain clinics (like down in Florida) and prescribing a young, lying, manipulating addict, like my own son, large quantities of oxycodone, percocette, and xanax, so they can use them, sell them and overdose.

I do believe that burn victims, and cancer patients along with any other person that is in horrible ligitimate pain should be able to get the pain medications that they need.

My gripe is the doctors that are prescribing large quantities of them to my healthy son who is in his 20's. He is physically fit, healthy, and has no medical problems. What I said in a previous post is that a good ethical, practical physician would do his job and request MRI's or something to verify that this young addict is really in need. Not these doctors that give them out like candy to these young addicts.

Geez, this is so hard to make people understand. Maybe if they had a child that was using these drugs, or GOD FORBID a child or a loved one who has died because of this, they would be singing a different tune about these pain clinics, and Mickey Mouse doctors that are there prescribing this garbage to our kids.

I know that addiction is up to the person. I am an addict in recovery for the past 5 years. I know it's my responsibility to not use the drug. However, these young kids that are already addicted, are not capable of realizing what these drugs will do to them. They are not worried about anything but getting more and more. I know when I was using I didn't think anything was wrong with the drug either. It wasn't until the suffering of getting off of these drugs that I realized why my practical and ethical doctor wouldn't give them to me freely. So at that time I found one who did. Thank GOD those pain clinics weren't around when I was using, or I would probably be dead.

Sometimes when your involved with the drugs, YOU JUST CAN'T SEE, the whole picture, and what the drugs are really doing to you. At least I couldn't and I was an adult at the time. Some of these patients are 19 and 20 year olds.

I didn't say for the Goverment to ban pain killers from the world. I said they need to crack down on the clinics and doctors prescribing them unethically for financial gain.

End of story.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:33 PM
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Oh Littlebird, This is an awesome thread. You got everyone in an uproar. Thanks so much.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:36 PM
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Patients lying to get drugs will always happen. But, clinics that have very few checks and balances where the doctors knowingly prescribe dangerous combinations and amounts of drugs are absolutely in the wrong.

I agree that these folks are going to be in the minority, but the ones who aren't following any sort of ethical (and legal) code? Bust them. Yes.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:43 PM
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I found my daughter's prescription bottles from last year. Over 200 oxycontins in one fill? I agree that something has to be done. As long as people can doctor shop, the accessibility is so convenient.

I've been struggling with my son for over a year now and had no clue that my daughter (his sister) had a bigger problem than he did.

I've been collecting the bottles and the papers for the prescriptions and am in shock. The amounts of pills she is being prescribed is absolutely horrifying.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:52 PM
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THAT should be illegal! 200! I did not know that was possible! I am convinced! You have a convert. I really hate to see government regulating personal liberties etc...but be damned if I can be legally required to wear a seatbelt. ????
I am just astonished!
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:18 PM
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The last thing a pharmaceutical company wants is for their drug to be abused by addicts and then they recieve the bad press that they do.

These drugs are addictive but need to used where addiction is not going to be a problem - a terminally ill patient who is going to die soon and just needs a couple of weeks. months or days painfree. Amphetamines are also used in this way - to give a patient more energy to maybe attend a their childs wedding before they die or increase appeitite to stop them from starving.

If you were ever to see a patient in absolute agony from a cancerous dressing change or moving them out of bed, then you would realise that these drugs are so, so necessary.

They are actually not big business really. If prescribed correctly then a patient should only need them for a couple of months, as unfortunately they will die. However, a heart drug, that a patient may take for 25 years is big business.

It makes me mad that when someone is stricken with cancer they might be denied the correct pain relieving drugs due to addicts that cannot be trusted.

However, prescribing such drugs for migraines or back pain, can only lead to problems and education and guidelines are the key to stopping this happen.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:34 PM
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Doctor Shopping

"THAT should be illegal! 200! I did not know that was possible! I am convinced! You have a convert. I really hate to see government regulating personal liberties etc...but be damned if I can be legally required to wear a seatbelt. ????
I am just astonished!"

My daughter went to Broward county and saw 3 doctors over 2 days, then went up to Tampa 2 weeks later and saw 2 more doctors, then traveled down to the Venice area a couple of days after that. These are all pain management clinics. They only take cash; no checks, no credit cards, no insurance, doctors are part-time, have bodyguards...hello??? Something's not right with this picture.

I know she's selling them to feed her addiction. She has no job, no money to get them filled, but someone does. I've turned everything over to the authorities. But, she had written prescriptions for the drugs, so their hands are tied in her case.

The detective told me about a group of 4 or 5 doctors in Miami that were recently busted; their combined prescriptions for Oxy's they wrote last year totaled over 1 million pills!
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:04 PM
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200 isnt outrageous, my ah gets 180 alongwith 100 mcg.of pain patch (a little morhpine here and there too),plus ER pain shots, plus all his bipolar meds, no wonder he is a mess. and get this his pain dr.brother in law is in detox/rehab for pill addiction!! I spoke to our pharmacist the other day about this problem, he said he is shocked at the amount of oxy's prescribed now, people with minor issues, young, old..etc..he said this about my ah pain dr." he is a quack", so Im sure he sees alot scripts from this doc yet what can he say or do? and I discussed how real patients with legit pain might suffer down the road from this problem and he also agreed with me that cancer patients he knows arent on that level.
sadly I have see many,many patients die of cancer and they werent on 100 mcg of fentanyl and 180 pills and they truly suffered in pain.
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Old 07-22-2010, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by coolrobin2 View Post
I found my daughter's prescription bottles from last year. Over 200 oxycontins in one fill? I agree that something has to be done. As long as people can doctor shop, the accessibility is so convenient.

I've been struggling with my son for over a year now and had no clue that my daughter (his sister) had a bigger problem than he did.

I've been collecting the bottles and the papers for the prescriptions and am in shock. The amounts of pills she is being prescribed is absolutely horrifying.


Coolrobin2, I totally understand the situation with the pills being prescribed for your daughter. It's unbelievable. That is why I said the Government needs to crack down on the doctors that are doing this. I got a lot of back lash for saying that previously in this post, but I also got alot of support. Does your daughter live in Florida? I'm just wondering, because I know it's a problem down there. I haven't seen that in NJ where I live, but then again, I am clean so I really wouldn't know. When I was using opiates and living in Brooklyn, I was able to get ridiculous amounts there too.

My son was in Florida and he was doing what your daughter is doing. It's insane. Something needs to be done. My other replies on this post have me complaining of this exact thing. What kind of doctor prescribes that quantity of drugs to a young healthy person who is in his 20's? It makes me crazy. Our kids are getting more and more severly addicted, and some are dying. And nobody's doing anything. Thanks for your input on this.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sasha4 View Post
The last thing a pharmaceutical company wants is for their drug to be abused by addicts and then they recieve the bad press that they do.

These drugs are addictive but need to used where addiction is not going to be a problem - a terminally ill patient who is going to die soon and just needs a couple of weeks. months or days painfree. Amphetamines are also used in this way - to give a patient more energy to maybe attend a their childs wedding before they die or increase appeitite to stop them from starving.

If you were ever to see a patient in absolute agony from a cancerous dressing change or moving them out of bed, then you would realise that these drugs are so, so necessary.

They are actually not big business really. If prescribed correctly then a patient should only need them for a couple of months, as unfortunately they will die. However, a heart drug, that a patient may take for 25 years is big business.

It makes me mad that when someone is stricken with cancer they might be denied the correct pain relieving drugs due to addicts that cannot be trusted.

However, prescribing such drugs for migraines or back pain, can only lead to problems and education and guidelines are the key to stopping this happen.

Sasha, I bet nowadays, that the opiates which you say are not big business, are actually bigger business then the heart medications, that people take for 25 years.
I understand your point, and what your saying, but I'm sure the opiates are alot more popular these days than the heart drugs. And that has to do with the quack doctors writing them like candy. I think it's horrible that these drugs are so abused. The reason for that is because they are so addictive. And because they sell on the streets. There's big money involved. They should only be given to the patient that is in desperate need of them.

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Old 07-24-2010, 10:54 PM
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What if they are so far gone, they are not capable of thinking for themselves? What if they are so very blitzed out of their mind that they lose their sanity, their being? What if they throw everything else aside. Kids, house, job, family, wife, mother, father. For drugs. What if they are so far gone .. and their family doctor treats their heroin track marks AND rx's xanax for their panic attacks? Some addicts here ARE so far gone that they 'can' think. But they can't. What about those who can't/don't think for themselves. Some are so far gone that they could care less about NA, AA, Salvation Army, Rehab etc. They KNOW it's there, but they can't reach it.

Just sayin... All addicts are capable of standing for themselves, BUT some are so far gone that even though they know right from wrong, they'll not choose it.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Angelic17 View Post

Geez, this is so hard to make people understand. Maybe if they had a child that was using these drugs, or GOD FORBID a child or a loved one who has died because of this, they would be singing a different tune about these pain clinics, and Mickey Mouse doctors that are there prescribing this garbage to our kids.
Why try to MAKE other people see your point? You do know you cannot MAKE anyone do anything, and this is including the understanding of where you are coming from. Sure, it would be wonderful if we could all see where each other are coming from but the problem is often it's extremely hard to do and hense why so many arguments and disagreements happen. It's not a perfect world.
And for the unethical people, why are you not reporting them? Why aren't there people reporting them? Demanding an investigation to be done. If your son is TRULY healthy other than addiction, why are you not demanding that his doctor be investigated? THERE ARE LAWS out there for weeding out the bad doctors. There are laws designed to punish the mickey mouse doctors. They are there. You've just got to make enough noise.
I would personally, still not sing a different tune about how I feel toward yet another law against the normal law-abiding majority, in another feeble attempt to control the minority. People who want to do illegal things do not care about the law. Plain and simple.
And while neither of my children are addicts, my Father was an alcoholic who died by suicide in 2004. Both of my uncles are addicts. One shot himself when I was 13. He was the cocaine addict. My heroin addict uncle has AIDS. My pill addict Aunt is still alive and will steal anything she can from you. And she'll break into your safe to get it. But did that deter me? Oh no. I went on a crack cocaine rampage like the junk was going out of style.
We still need to start with kids when they are young. Quit letting the media teach them that drugs are bad, but are they depressed? Can't sleep? Can't get a hard-on? Can't consentrate? Can't pee? Can't do this, can't do that? Well, take this pill. Pill ads don't need to be on TV. Legit medication should always be a suggestion/prescription/discussion/ANYTHING between doctor and patient (and patient's parent's if under 18). NEVER by the television. No wonder we're so screwed up. I mean, really.. We banned cigarette ads and cigarette sponsorships, but the kids still get to see viagra ads, lunesta ads, anti-depressant ads... What sense is that?
And to be clear, I don't approve of censorship either. But since I don't like those ads, I don't allow my youngest son to watch TV during certain times of the day when I know they are more likely to show the ads. And if we see one, we discuss it. He knows Mom is a "crackhead" and knows what she is talking about.
It starts with us. I am not saying you went wrong with your son. Please do not think that, as sometimes, even when we do everything right our kids can still go wrong, but MANY parents leave life's instructions up to the school, peers, TV, and computer. ALL WAY WRONG. Parents are the first line of defense against drugs, violence, sex, and all of that.
Our government should never have stepped in to do our work for us. It's muddied the waters way too much.
And the reason we're debating this so hotly, most of us anyway, is because of the passion we feel towards the subject and how badly we ALL wish the other could see our POV. That's human nature. And if you really want to get your view across, use more than just the one mickey mouse doctor and your son as an example. ONE person, ONE clinic, ONE problem doesn't represent the entire nation. Of course it's on a totally personal level for you and I completely understand that, but we're not facing an epidemic of mickey mouse doctors and unethical practioners. We're facing more and more Big Brother Government making more and more laws that our police, courts, AND corrections cannot possibly handle. We have to look elsewhere to solve the problems.
I regret many things, but writing that 10 page paper was not one of them. Really opened my eyes up to how poor of a job our government is doing and how rapidly they are enslaving us behind concrete walls and steal cages.
Did you know that 1 in 25 adults gets at least ONE visit to jail a year, in the United States (Department of Justice Statistics)? And people are still breaking the law. People are still becoming addicted. People are still abusing drugs. Something to think about. Almost seems as if the more laws we make and the harder we try to push, the harder they push back in effort to prove some thought-provoking point they think they have.....
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:35 AM
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I'm still working my way through this. The more I research and think about it, the more clarity I'm gaining in what I would like to see happen.

In my state, local law enforcement only recently gained access to the INS database. A lot of people here were seriously scratching their heads, wondering why they didn't have access before? Well, they had to make a law for that to happen.

I don't understand why controlled substance prescriptions between doctors and patients can't be entered into a national pharmaceutical database, overseen by the DEA, the same way they do pseudoephedrine.

There are 3 of us in our home who use Claritin D. When all of us went through a really bad spot with allergies a couple of months ago, I went to the pharmacy to buy more for all of us. When we ran out and needed more, I was not allowed to purchase more because I exceeded my personal limit.

The pharmacist explained to me the database does not go by address, it goes by consumer. In other words, someone else in my home would have to purchase them. I told my family it's every person for themselves from now on, buy your own!

After thinking this through a little more, I'm even more in favor of a national database. It will at least slow down pushers and users alike, and or force them to become more creative.
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:06 AM
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I understand the "big brother" aspect, but in Florida, 1 in 5 arrests made are for prescription pills.

Pain management clinics that are pills mills in disguise are making $20,000-$30,000 per day in cash money writing prescriptions. They charge $150 to $200 per visit, plus charge $349 for an MRI. This is all cash-no credit cards, no insurance, no money orders...Most of these pill mills are not owned by people in the medical field. They hire doctors who are retired and want cash under the table or they hire doctors that are close to losing their license anyway and can't find employment.

People come down here from up north and visit 5 or 6 doctors over a 2 week period, go back up north and sell pills that cost them $1-$2 each for between $15 and $30 a piece. Law enforcement in Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky and West Virginia will tell you that most prescription drugs arrests involve prescriptions written Florida doctors. Most doctors are on the up and up, but many are not.

We need a national database.
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:29 AM
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Crack Quack, I think you misunderstood my earlier posts. I didn't want the Government to crack down on all doctors. Especially the good and ethical doctors, who help the sick. Just the ones like coolrobin is speaking of in Florida. Giving large amounts of pills to patients like my addict son. I'm not against good doctors helping the truly sick and suffering. I'm against the pill mill doctors that are killing our kids for financial gain. That's all. No argument, I know everyone thinks differently. I'm not trying to argue or have a debate. I just think it is a big problem the way these clinics hand out these prescriptions like they are candy. This is a dangerous substance they are giving, that is ruining lives.

These addicts are being fed a very dangerous recipe for disaster. The addict goes doctor shopping, which is a 10 year jail time in Florida, If I'm not mistaken. Selling the pills turns into years in jail also. It's horrible.

I think it goes something like this,
They get an MRI for a few hundred bucks. Doesn't matter if the patient with the MRI is normal or ill, they qualify for drugs. So the patient goes to the clinic.They get the drugs, they take too many, they sell them, they get arrested,wind up in jail, or worse, DEAD.

Those are the doctors that I want to be shut down, and my family did turn in those clinics and doctors. My sister and brother had called the news stations and had those clinics that my son was using investigated. From what I understand, many of those clinics are being shut down, but there's so many of them, and it's really hard to stop. You and I both know that addicts are very resourceful when it comes to getting their drugs. I'm just praying that it's much harder for the addicted to really kill themselves, or mess up their lives big time. Thanks for your input.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:31 PM
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cynical, the government sees all that now if someone's healthcare is provided or supplemented by taxes, like medicare. It provides protection against and consequences for fraud, for every taxpayer.

Would a national pharmaceutical database for controlled substances only, also provide protection against and consequences for fraud, for every taxpayer (jails, court, violent crimes)?

Help me out here and I'm being serious. I'm not trying to sway anyone to my thinking, I need you to challenge my thinking because it looks like I'm missing something here.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:19 PM
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Chino and cynical,

A 60 year old woman in Charlotte County Florida was arrested this past week for doctor-shopping to get Xanax and Oxy; this is part of what a national database is designed to do. 3 doctors are giving her prescriptions every month to cure her pain. One of two things is happening in this situation; either she is taking 3 times the dose of medicine she needs everyday (which would kill her) or she's selling the extra pills to supplement her income or paying for other medications she can't afford to buy.

Either scenario of what she is doing with the pills is dangerous. I see more and more Florida stories like this every day. There are a lot of Florida seniors getting into trafficking because you can make a fortune!

In her arrest, the police are not charging the doctors because the prescriptions aren't networked yet-most of our pharmacies aren't connected to a database. These doctors had no idea she was seeing other doctors.

Woman arrested for doctor shopping | HeraldTribune.com
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:35 PM
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We have a state database for some substances (pain pills, sleeping pills). My RABF decided to stop using over a year ago after he received a letter from the judicial system saying that they knew that he was doctor/pharmacy shopping. For him, the letter was enough to make him realize that his relapse was out of control and he was heading in the wrong direction. He went to a psychiatrist and got help. Of course, he could have instead gotten the drugs from another country, or bought them on the street. He could have switched to heroin and got that off the street. However, this database was enough to realize it was his rock bottom. So, I support a national database. I know it is a "big brother," type of thing. However, if it stops or slows down some addicts, then that's a good thing. BTW, we recently had a doctor arrested for prescribing pain pills. She was charging $250 for a prescription--she didn't even see the patients. The DEA investigated her for 9 months before closing in on her.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:50 PM
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There is an EXCELLENT expose on pain management clinics in Florida called the "OxyContin Express" on Current TV. I watched that with 2 of my daughter's friends who are recovering and they vouched to the accuracy of how it works when they highlight the pain management clinics.

Keep in mind that this is an expose and is opinionated, just watch it to see how it's done.
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