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In regard to my treatment of others

Old 05-14-2010, 11:15 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Now the seat that we F&F sit in, and the view from it can be pretty crazy making. We've all had pretty much the same experiences with our "A" s and share the same feelings as a result. John's sticky really hit home for me.

Yes, it was blunt...but it needs to be. This is life or death for most people....no need to beat around the bush about it....and we Codies NEED to hear the brutal truth of it all.
We're enablers....
- Yes, yes, yes...I agree with you on this sofacat!!! It was the slap in the face I needed to wake me up...and get me out of my state of perpetual denial. I will always be grateful to Jon for saying what I feel I needed to hear...or I'd probably still be denying the very real issue of my husband's active addiction.

To me love is a verb, not a noun. Its the actions behind the words that matter. Love doesn't steal or lie or destroy. My son is no more capable of loving me than he is of loving himself. - I believe this too...IF my husband could love anyone it'd be me and our daughters...but he's just not capable right now...he doesn't even love himself!!! And that helps me to not take his actions so personally.

I don't think his feelings can accurately be described as 'love'. - I agree with this...I've come to believe that everyone's definition of love is different...so everyone loves differently...based on a myriad of things, family culture, life experiences, etc... I've often heard people say, "she/he loved you in the way they could..." And that's so true... No one walks the same path in life...and so people love you in the way they "can"...you have to decide if that's enough for you...

To reconcile the two viewpoints of love...when my husband says he loves me, I try (try being the operative word) not to question the legitimacy because...from where he's at in his life and what he's experiencing...maybe he means it... However, for me...his version of love may not be what I need from my husband...
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:24 AM
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I just realized what we're all talking about is the difference between immature love and mature love:"

Great way to conceptualize it. I think that's why AAers celebrate sobriety dates as birthdays. An active addict is suspended in a state of immaturity, no spiritual, emotional growth etc. Most recovering addicts come to see their behaviors as unethical, immoral and illegal only after they have dried ou for a while, it still in there for alot of active users, but largely unconscious, repressed (not to get to Freudian). People only have power over you to the extent that you let them.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:45 PM
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It's really easy to say you love someone and a lot harder to prove it. My actions spoke louder than my words when I was an addict.

I think THAT is the point of Jon's letter. And I think it is pretty much right on.

Stealing, lying, manipulating, saying cruel things, being mean and disrespectful - those actions do not show love. And love should be an action. Not a state of being. Love should not hurt emotionally or physically.

I always find it amusing when people take issue with someone elses experience. just because it wasn't their interpretation of their experience doesn't mean it isn't true.

When it came down to choosing between the crack pipe and everything that went along with it, and the love and RESPONSIBILITY I owed to my family, the crack pipe won. Hands down. That is until I put it down.


And this:
"I HATE that I have to lie to my husband about where I've been the past 2 hours, but I HAVE TO get more $h*t for tomorrow or the comedown is gonna hurt"

I felt guilt constantly. Every day. I got really good at putting that guilt 'away' so I could pretend everything was fine. But still, I didn't quit.
sounds a lot like a more wordier version of this:

I thought "F**k everybody, I'm gonna do what I want"
I stuffed my guilt. I did whatever I wanted. It was easy when I was high. So I decided to stay that way no matter how it affected other people.
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:17 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Chino View Post
How can I possibly say I loved, respected, honored others, when I couldn't do the same for myself? I had to have it before I could give it.



I totally see your point and I agree.

Thing is, I didn't 'hate' myself. I don't think I have ever 'hated' myself.

I was definitely mad at me though!
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:27 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by hello-kitty View Post

And this:


sounds a lot like a more wordier version of this:


.

Yea, I understand how one can see that, but in my heart it didn't feel that way. It wasn't my intention to hurt anyone. It's such a helpless feeling being a slave to a substance, as I'm sure it is just as helpless a feeling being someone who loves an addict.
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:36 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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I am a recovering addict. When I was using, the road to hell was paved with my good intentions. and I didn't recover until I stopped playing the role of victim.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:06 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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SlvrMag, it wasn't my intention to hurt my daughter (or anyone for that matter) with my codie ways, my addictive personality, but I did.

When we're emotionally immature/children, we love others but focus on our wants first. When we become emotionally mature, we love and focus on our needs and others, not putting anything before them.

I love my daughter but I'm admitting right now, like I just did with her, that I practiced immature love because I put wants before needs (hers and mine both). Sure she was fed, housed, and clothed, but she was also spoiled rotten. She acted like a spoiled child, focused on her wants, and so did I because I had not developed mature love yet. That's what tough love is. It's mature love we have for ourselves first, then share with others.
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:45 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Hello all,

I read most of the posts and I am very relieved that I was not met with harshness. That seems too common on the internet these days. It's refreshing to have a break from needless hurtfulness.

Anyway, one thing that stood out to me, out of all the points made, is that i am seemingly stuck in a frustration that might be normal for people new to recovery. Yes, I am at the point where I am frustrated with the fact that people around me are moving on while I am struggling to catch up, and I do confess to wishing they would stop moving forth to catch me. But, I also realise that I am an adult, and I must focus on taking care of myself, even if that means struggling quite a bit.

I am very thankful that you guys are here to not only support me, but educate me.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:08 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by hello-kitty View Post
I am a recovering addict. When I was using, the road to hell was paved with my good intentions. and I didn't recover until I stopped playing the role of victim.


Originally Posted by Chino View Post
SlvrMag, it wasn't my intention to hurt my daughter (or anyone for that matter) with my codie ways, my addictive personality, but I did.

When we're emotionally immature/children, we love others but focus on our wants first. When we become emotionally mature, we love and focus on our needs and others, not putting anything before them.

I love my daughter but I'm admitting right now, like I just did with her, that I practiced immature love because I put wants before needs (hers and mine both). Sure she was fed, housed, and clothed, but she was also spoiled rotten. She acted like a spoiled child, focused on her wants, and so did I because I had not developed mature love yet. That's what tough love is. It's mature love we have for ourselves first, then share with others.



I am in no way making excuses for my behavior, I am just telling what I felt and thought throughout my addiction, that's all.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:06 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tealvertigo View Post
Hello all,

I read most of the posts and I am very relieved that I was not met with harshness. That seems too common on the internet these days. It's refreshing to have a break from needless hurtfulness.

Anyway, one thing that stood out to me, out of all the points made, is that i am seemingly stuck in a frustration that might be normal for people new to recovery. Yes, I am at the point where I am frustrated with the fact that people around me are moving on while I am struggling to catch up, and I do confess to wishing they would stop moving forth to catch me. But, I also realise that I am an adult, and I must focus on taking care of myself, even if that means struggling quite a bit.

I am very thankful that you guys are here to not only support me, but educate me.
We don't shoot our wounded here Teal. We are all here searching for answers to things that make us struggle. I hope you choose to stick around. We have a lot of experience strength and hope (and yes, our own frustrations) to share. :ghug3
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:34 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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A little bit off topic here, but I have to tell you all, this thread is amazing. I am so proud to be a member of a board that produces questions and answers in such a way that all of us learn something and help each other grow.

Thank You.
B
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:00 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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frankly, I agree. There was another shift in my consciousness today and thankfully I was able to share it with my family, not just my daughter. It made sense to my loved ones and we'll grow because of it. There were no judgments, just acceptance. That's amazing all by itself
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:34 AM
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ditto Frankly's reply.
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:50 AM
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I agree with frankly too...very good thread!!!!
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sofacat View Post
".....he didn't. his addiction was more powerful."

But that didn't change the fact that they are addicts and alcoholics and would pretty much do anything to protect their disease...even at the cost of a loved one's sanity and well being.

They would both see me cry, depressed, manic, frightened, confused, angry, panicked, withering away to nothing, broke (at their expense), and every other unhealthy mental disposition while they were active in their addiction....and they knew their illness was killing Me...and I was letting it. Didn't change anything.

Now mind you, in one scenario I was a child, the other a "soul mate". Didn't matter....the addiction won EVERY.....SINGLE.....TIME.

And the lying and the mental mind games they played to protect the disease really broke me down. I felt betrayed by the people that meant the most to me. They knew what was happening...but all involved were powerless to stop it. The addiction was more important (in my eyes) to them. And it was killing me.

we feed the addiction and give it strength, power and permission....and we don't even know we're doing it.

I realize that for some "A"s that sticky might be a bit harsh..but the view from your seat and the view from our seat are two very different places.

...and like addicts, we "Codies" need to be confronted and learn to see things for what they really are. It's okay....just keeps it all in perspective.

Have a great day today...and thank you for sharing that.

Thank you for sharing that.

It's very hard being on this side, being on the verge of heading to the other side because you're so tired and the thought of "If you can't beat em, join em" starts making sense.

I am so mentally tired from trying to "see & feel" that love that is professed everyday I cannot think straight anymore.

Again, thanks sofacat
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Old 05-15-2010, 04:28 PM
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"the thought of "If you can't beat em, join em" starts making sense."

I've had those same thoughts myself. Wondering if maybe I was the one with the problem...maybe I should just lighten up
....it's amazing how far we will go to please the ones we love, isn't it?

Glad I can help.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:52 PM
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I'm having a hard day, missing my XABF. It's been 2 months since we broke up, and 6 weeks since last contact. I just spent 5 minutes in my van, in my garage, away from my daughters, crying and screaming and throwing a toddler tantrum, yelling at God, saying, "HOW CAN SOMEONE TELL YOU THEY LOVE YOU ONE DAY AND BE LIVING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN 2 WEEKS LATER?"

I got it out of my system, said a quiet prayer for some relief from my pain, came inside and accidentally hit the bookmark I had linked to this thread. Thank you, God. That accident was an answer to my prayer. I needed to see this thread again today!!! I needed something to remind myself that my XABF loved me to the extent that he is capable of loving ANYONE. I don't doubt that he still loves me...I know through our experiences that he was deeply ashamed of the pain that he caused me, and that the bottom line is that his drug and alcohol addictions are far more powerful than what he wanted for us. I lost to the addictions, not because of who I am. And my replacement is not someone he loves -- he barely knows her -- she drinks and drugs with him, and they live together. Convenient. And not what I want for MY LIFE!!!

I'm free! I get to be me again after 2 years of giving and giving and giving to someone who wanted sobriety but wasn't ready to be there yet. I get to be me again. THAT is a gift. And there is comfort in knowing that he loved (loves) me as much as he is capable of loving anyone. It was real. I saw it, felt it, knew it. Addicts are not zombies without feelings. They are real people. During his clean and sober days, he did give love, many times. Gave it as a verb -- in action. The drugs and alcohol are powerful, however, and in the long run, they had a stronger grip.
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