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Old 05-11-2010, 06:51 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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yeah, i am not as evolved as a lot of them on here. i totally get looking in the bag, and i think that in light of him wanting to come over and see his son, it was totally justified. cuz otherwise you don't know if he's stable enough to want the boy with him, or to even carry on a conversation for that matter.

i have been around addicts for years. so many times i hear "you'll know".

but i had NO CLUE that my xabf relapsed and was using from time to time. i walked in the house unexpectedly once when he had a friend over. i walked into the garage and saw the friend torching out a meth pipe. i did not realize, because i was lied to so convincingly, that it wasn't just the friend's pipe. in fact, i didn't know it for months, til the friend got clean, came to visit me to make an amend, and told me.

ugh. that was a crappy, painful reminder.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by coffeedrinker View Post
you know about the tactic "a little truth inside a larger lie" don't you? if they "confess" and tell a portion of the truth, yet are still being dishonest about their lifestyle, it feels like they have come clean, when in fact it is very calculating.
My ex actually admitted to me that he does exactly this. That was about when I started the slow walk away from the relationship. I realized there is no where to go from there, when a person uses the truth to cover other lies. Any 'confession' after that just made me wonder what the rest of the story was.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:42 AM
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Hello everyone!

Thank you for all the replies.. As for last night talk...

He came over and we just sat in his car for about an hour and talked. He said that after he got clean, he started seeing addiction specialist, and was really scared to go back to the life style he had, he was scared to wake up in the morning and all he could think of is where he is going to stick that needle. So the doctor offered him Suboxone plan... and he agreed to it. He's been on it for about 2 weeks now. 8ml a day... half in the morning and half at night. He said he tried to stop taking it but he is already addicted.... Said that he got his self in to this cycle AGAIN... I asked him what his plan was? He called Detox place and got him self on the waiting list for the bed. Until then he wants to taper him self down.

He also said that he wants my help, support... and I said that he got him self there, he is the ONE that needs to focus on him self and his recovery plan....
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:23 AM
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Hello-kitty,
I know the feeling... If you are looking that means you basically already know that it's there, and you want to make sure that you are not crazy! --- I think its called co-dependence


Do you really believe he is clean?
I don't consider him being clean cause he is on suboxone, for me, if you are clean-you are clean of everything....

But as far as Heroin? He is not using it for sure.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:09 AM
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How do you know for sure that he is not using heroin?

I personally steer clear of judging whether an addict is clean or not while on suboxone. A lot of people who take it on a doctor-supervised plan are staying clean and leading purposeful, healthy, constructive lives on it. There is evidence that many long-term opiate addicts permanently damaged the part of their brain that tells the body to make and feed the chemicals that keep people feeling good (endorphins). This group of addicts stays in a constant state of severe depression when they go off of their opiates. This eventually leads to chronic relapsing. So for some, one good (in my opinion and experience) answer turns out to be medical maintenance on a small dose (8mg is small enough for many to stay on) of suboxone.

For these people, they don't feel "high" or even any different then you do every day, and the suboxone functions much like an anti-depressant does for other clinically depressed patients. I don't like the idea of saying these people aren't clean. I think that if they stick to the prescription exactly as the doctor prescribes, they are as clean as any psych patient or diabetic who must take medication to function normally every day.

But I don't think this applies to your b/f. I think if he did research (as I did) and made an informed choice (as I did) to take this medication for a long period of time, that he would have told you about it, for there is nothing to be ashamed of in doing that. Indeed it's a proactive thing to do, if he is willing (as I was) to also go to meetings every day, get a sponsor, work steps, and do all the inside work of recovery. I don't hear any of that going on with him, unless you didn't share that part of the story with us.

Suboxone isn't good or bad in and of itself. It can be, if properly used and doctor-supervised, a useful part of an opiate addicts' recovery plan. It isn't supposed to be a last resort that you take only on those days when you can't get heroin or oxy. People that do that just make it harder for those who are really working a program, because they give suboxone patients a bad name. And that is what it sounds like your b/f is doing.

If it were me, I'd get out while the getting is good, before you have any babies and permanently tie yourself to this sick man. You can't help him, and you may actually be hurting him by assisting him in not reaching bottom. Some of us addicts only seek help when we've lost everything and everyone who cared about us. We have to seek treatment ourselves. It doesn't matter if he takes that job or not, because in the long term he will lose that job and everything else he touches will turn to [email protected] until he accepts that he is powerless over opiates and becomes willing to do whatever it takes to get and stay clean.

Keep coming back, because you too will eventually learn that just as your b/f is powerless over the drugs, you are powerless over him and his recovery. When you accept that, deep in the fiber of your being, your own recovery will truly begin.

Love,
KJ
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:23 AM
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How do you know for sure that he is not using heroin?
Well, I've been with him thru his using for so long that basically by looking at his eyes I can tell right away if he's on H or not. Plus his actions.... He's not nodding out, no new marks...
I don't know... Just deep inside I have a feeling that he is clean from H..


I don't like the idea of saying these people aren't clean. I think that if they stick to the prescription exactly as the doctor prescribes, they are as clean as any psych patient or diabetic who must take medication to function normally every day.
Everyone has their own opinion about this, but for me ... I would not want to have kids with a person that is on Suboxone or any other prescription opiates... In my opinion it will effect the kids.

I'd get out while the getting is good, before you have any babies and permanently tie yourself to this sick man. You can't help him, and you may actually be hurting him by assisting him in not reaching bottom.
I did get out in December, I moved out, I live with a roommate, work full time, go to school full time... And I just started talking to him less then a month ago ... I really don't think that I'm enabling him in any way. It's just my boundary that if he is on any kind of prescriptions meds then I will stay away....

The job offer is out of the question now, thank God!
And Time will show, if he goes true with the detox and staying clean. I'm defiantly focusing on my life.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:57 AM
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I've never heard of a doctor prescribing subs in a plastic baggie. You wanna know if he really has a prescription? Ask to see the bottle with his name on it... of course he won't show you. And there's your answer.

And if your boundary is that you won't date someone who takes prescription subs to stave off a heroin addiction (I wouldn't either) then the whole discussion is pointless anyway. You can't save him and make him work his recovery the way you feel is appropriate.

In order to move on and "continue your life", I think you are going to have to let go. Maybe that's what your are struggling with right now?

I'm not sure if checking my ex's bag was codependency or not. I didn't do it for him. I did it for me. My boundary is No Drugs In My House or Around My Son. He was behaving strangely. I suspected there were drugs in his bag. I checked. I found drugs. And then I kicked his butt out and I haven't spoken to him since.

It only would have been codependent, if I had begged him to stop using drugs and allowed him to stay.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:21 AM
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hahaha thats what he said too. that he should tell the detox people that he is on 1 gram of heroin a day and that way they will take him sooner. and that since he's been on suboxone only for 2 weeks, his withdrawals shouldnt be as bad.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:57 AM
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TO ME it sounds like he's setting himself up to use......and all the rest is lies and denial.......IF he had rec'd the subs from a DOCTOR there would have been a dosage plan and the DOCTOR would have set up a taper plan that would assure there would be no w/d's and thus no need for detox. and he would have gone back TO his DOCTOR and be dealing with this, not trying to manage on his own and now talking detox????
As to his story... He's doctor has him on a 3 month plan of Subs. 8ml a day. But he wants to get off of it and go to detox before his addiction to them gets even worse.
BTW I did ask him to send me a picture of the bottle and he did.... well at least that wasnt a lie....

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Old 05-11-2010, 11:14 AM
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Well I'm very confused. I guess everything is alright and on the up and up?

But something is obviously a problem for you or you wouldn't be here, right? So what is it? What are your boundaries?
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:19 AM
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Is there a way to find out if the person is taking Suboxone? I read online and it says that it does not show on a regular drug test... Any ideas?

Thank you!!
ummmmmm, ask them?
I did.... And he said that he is not taking them, but when I was driving his car the little bag fell out with Suboxone... I guess I know the answer my self....
hmmm.... I guess the issue is lying??
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:19 AM
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I guess at first I came back here to ask if anyone knows how to tell if someone is on Suboxone... but then he told me him self...... and now? hmmm Im not sure whether to trust him and see him thru this or to leave him til he's all better....
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:33 AM
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This is my last comment. :-)

You obviously can't trust him because he lies. He didn't TELL you until you CAUGHT him. That's not trustworthy behavior. That's dishonest.

A guiding principal when it comes to dealing with addicts is: Hands off the addict. I know you have heard this a million times.

Focus on med school ;-). And let him focus on his own recovery. he seems to have it under control, right?
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamAngel View Post
I did get out in December, I moved out, I live with a roommate, work full time, go to school full time... And I just started talking to him less then a month ago ... I really don't think that I'm enabling him in any way. It's just my boundary that if he is on any kind of prescriptions meds then I will stay away.....
When I read this it sounds like you are already out of the situation. No?

KJ
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:32 PM
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I am... I'm living my own life, just kind of watching where he will turn.
So far the bed for detox is scheduled for Monday, to detox from subs.
And next Monday on the 24th he is starting his new job in the new area...
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:00 PM
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I am... I'm living my own life, just kind of watching where he will turn.
I understand this. only you know where his life stops and your life starts. As long as you can watch his train wreck while you stay in balance that's great. I found I couldn't. My overwhelming desire to FIX IT, PROVIDE ADVISE or HELP SOMEONE is too great.

So far the bed for detox is scheduled for Monday, to detox from subs.
hmmm.... Learn something new about every day. Because I have never heard of this before - going to detox for a subs addiction. Of course i'm no expert but I do know a bit and I just sense half truths and a line of BS. I'm not anywhere near the situation though. Shows what I know I guess.

You are a smart girl Angel. Don't be naive and keep your eyes wide open.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:36 AM
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Yes, only time will show....

Recovery Centers of King County this one.

Our Services

Medically supervised detoxification


Intensive inpatient Program


Mental health triage services


DUI and other assessments


Deferred prosecution program


Alcohol/drug information school


Individual and group counseling


Relapse prevention program


Alcohol/drug free housing for eligible indviduals


Job readiness assistance


Women's program with free child care and transportation for low-income women


Parenting education groups


Consultation with and referral to other healthcare and social service providers


Alcohol/drug education for community groups and schools
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