Chino

It's because he'll use it against you.

Krys

Hi Jenny. I just wanted to say that I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for 6 years. I got out when it hit me that I am not a bad person, people do like me (insert any other insult he threw my way that I was eventually able to contradict). The thing is I did not do it until I was able to fully realize that he was a bully and I deserved better. People can be emotionally abusive because of drugs, but some people JUST ARE. All the craziness you are feeling, the self doubt, the second guessing is more than likely him not you. They are very good at what they do...I thought my EXBF was my best friend so he MUST be right when he tells me I am a worthless bitch. It is sneaky just like physical abuse, only it is brainwashing. The day I wished he would just hit me and get it over with so I could leave was huge for me. Do you know why I wished it? Because if he hit me there would be a mark and he would have to admit he hurt me. That thought scared me and I left. He basically made my life a living hell until I did. One day telling me he wished I could leave sooner and the next telling me he loved me and wanted it to work. He called me at work so much my boss told him to stop because he was upsetting me. Then I had to stay at he home for a night to let him cool off. He called even after I moved 2000 miles away. I told him to stop and eventually he did. It is such an insidious kind of abuse and you sound exactly like I did back then. I thought I was literally going insane. Do yourself a favor and read up on it until you get in with a therapist. I had the same problem finding a therapist btw...I think because the economy is bad no one has a receptionist anymore!

OceanSize

fair enough - and totally understand (we went from living together to now 3 weeks of barely communicating haven't physically seen ea. other)

still, i don't know that it matters how long the time outs are.

i have ridiculous abandonment issues, and the time-out (or whatever my situation is) is really forcing me to confront it. not that i'm doing all that well, but just saying, there's value to extended time apart. it's a very gray area. the relationship itself remains in limbo while you figure out what you really want.

however, i also like reading about the compassion - where you wonder if he is feeling similar abandonment issues. i think this is all good stuff, all be it a slower way of figuring out what you want in life.

meanwhile, aren't finals like...really super soon? that has to be stressful too.

hug hug hug hug

OceanSize

i SOOOO get this, this is what i've been having an "aha" moment with - along with the whole powerless thing.

it's the illness. it manifests itself in various ways but the results are ultimately the same.

self destruction

but now i have to say, step 1 (powerlessness) is seriously helping me understand the above, and how to distance from it (or try).

OceanSize

wow this rings a bell for me. my i-don't-know-what-he-is would react so strongly when i would express if something he did hurt me. It didn't matter what it was. He would argue with me and say "i'm offended" "that offends me" and then me? i'd beg for forgiveness.

sometimes he would, sometimes he wouldn't.

when he did, i'd be so grateful. so so happy.

and then sometimes i'd realize: wait, how did that happen, somehow i haven't been heard. not even a little. and i didn't stick up for myself. not even a little.

that above pattern is what i am trying to change in addition to the way i react to frustrations i experience when i feel "unheard" (i get really upset) (yet clearly i encourage it)

wow writing this stuff out is very helpful!

Jenny1232

I guess when we're doing happy and well, I tend to forget the things he's done. It takes someone reminding me, and me saying, "oh yeah, that did happen". Yesterday we had such a lovely evening, that I just can't fathom that he's this horrible guy... It's very difficult when I'm clouded by his love, I guess?

I'm not afraid of him, in the sense of being hurt physically. I don't like to anger him, only because the fighting is so damn irritating. I guess it's going to take the 'next big blowup' to get my thinking brain back together. Right now, I'm living on fantasy island.. and it's hard to face reality. Maybe it's pathetic, but true nonetheless.

Krys,

Did your abusive ex switch between being the most incredible loving guy.. to the mean name-calling a-hole? I'm at a loss of words here.

I can't defend him
I can't defend myself
I'm back into the stage of denial.. all the while, secretly realizing and seeing the truth in these words...

Krys

Yes Jenny he did, and it was the "good guy" that kept me around for so long. He was not an addict btw...just a jackass! Arguing with someone who is an emotional abuser will not get you anywhere. I could literally look at the sky and say it's blue and he would say no it's not it's black you are blind. Or the best...he called me a bitch and I told him not to call me that and he said "I never said that." Denying/not taking responsibility for actions and putting the blame on you...and making you feel nuts is what they do. The best advice I can give you is to get some books on the subject and check out this site I found. It should give you an idea of whether he is or is not an emotional abuser. This Is A War - ABUSE Oh...I hid my books btw, no need to add to the constant fighting.

Krys

Oh and something you said a while back struck me. It could have been the drugs but...I believe you said that you got into an argument and broke it off (finally put your foot down) and he went straight to insults and threats. Then he went to crying and begging right? My ex used to do this and when I suspected emotional abuse I put it to the test. I am NOT suggesting you do this, my ex did not get physical with me and it sounds like yours could. One day when he came home and started a fight I refused to engage. I said I was not going to talk about it and I went to the beach. I did this several times and got 2 different outcomes, but the same outcomes every time (if that makes sense). He would either turn into the good guy "I'm sorry, I don't know why I do that, you deserve better" or "You are (insert insult here) blah blah blah. No one will love you like I do, you are not loveable." This is losing control. When his emotional abuse no longer worked on me he lost control over me, and panicked.

Jenny1232

*sighs* - that's so disheartening...

Someone said to me.. "There are good people who have evil in them" and[/I "there are evil people, who have good in them". It's easy to confuse the two. I wonder.. is he evil with some good, or is he good with some evil?

You know.. he will say mean things to me, and turn around and say what a good boyfriend he is. I wish I didn't have to focus on the negative here though. There are so many things that make him an incredible boyfriend. I've never had someone treat me so good (when he does), and I don't know what the proper treatment is.

One time, I had an article printed out, "Are you dating a loser" and he found it (it was in my backpack and he was snooping). It crushed him.. but he said he read it, and he couldn't deny that he possessed those characteristics (it was based on abuse). Nothing ever changed, but he wasn't in denial.

Thank you so much Krys. You were happier walking away from him, after six years? It's scary to see the same story in your words... wow, it's damn scary. I actually started to stop engaging in the fighting as well. Usually when I do that now, he comes forward. We developed a key word to say when fighting, and it helps us focus on what's more important. I feel like he acknowledges this stuff, and he's trying.

I just can't give up yet, I won't. We'll just wait and see what happens. He really is trying.

Am I a lost cause?

coffeedrinker

hey jenny,

i don't think he views you as his victim - on a concious level. some people are very calculating, but some are just who they are, and they treat other people that they feel comfortable with, badly.

it doesn't matter, though, which it is.

the computer i'm at won't copy/paste, but something you said bears repeating:

i guess i have to rely on SOMEONE else to have a future and kids with...

think about what you said there. there are about 10 statements i could make about how you view yourself, and relationships, and the world contained in it.

you are working at becoming a healthier, more intentional person. but, i beg you, to care about your future children even MORE than that: please do not consider inviting vulnerable and innocent children into this man's life. unless he does such a turnaround, that he is almost completely different, meaning he no longer abuses those he considers weaker than himself (little kids)

keep it up, jenny. i understand feeling like you just can't give up yet. i really do.

Jenny1232

Here I go defending again. I don't want everyone thinking I am discounting your words or advice. I agree with MUCH of what is said.

I've seen him interact with his neice/nephews, and even my friends kids, and he's INCREDIBLE. I honestly think he'd make a great dad. When my druggie friend would come over, it was him playing with her little girl. He'd toss the ball with her, he'd put bandaids on her for fun to make her smile, everything. With his neices, he NEVER raised his voice. He would sit down, look at them, and say, "Look, I love you, but I need you to do...this or that". I can't deny, he's more patient than I've ever been. He is so calm with them.. and I'm the one yelling at them, or saying mean things.

He says (true or not) that when he has kids, he wouldn't want to drink around them because he's so protective, he'd be terrified. Part of me actually does believe this. He might get loud and verbal with me, but he is so calm with children!

I just don't know. I know him. You guys know what I say about him. He can be a wretched person.. but he can be so amazing too.

I'm not losing sight of the big picture here though, I'm not. I'm still working on me.. and I'm working on letting him not treat me how he had been. He knows we need to re-build our foundation on mutual respect.. and he's doing a great job to be honest.

Thank you for your insight still. Even if I'm in denial.. this stuff sticks with me.

Krys

I was much happier when I left him. Had some PTSD I didn't know I had that I needed to deal with, but I was happier and stronger. I worked on myself for two years before dating again. My ABF is not abusive, but he is an addict and I know I may have to face the same choice again. I plan on reading Codependent No More because abuser or not I seem to still be falling in love with people who wind up hurting me and that needs to stop. As for your ABF not meaning to hurt you...I agree with that. I used to say (and still say) my ex was not a bad person, just a control freak and crappy boyfriend. To friends and family he was an angel. Imagine their surprise when I left him and told them why. Some people did not believe me and that hurt, so I kicked them out too! LOL. It is scary to face at first, but also (for me anyway) a relief to know it was not me, and I was not going crazy. Once I had that power, he could not hurt me whether I chose to stay or go.

Jenny1232

I used to say (and still say) my ex was not a bad person, just a control freak and crappy boyfriend. To friends and family he was an angel.

YES, YES, YES! He's not a bad person.. he doesn't even realize half the time what he's doing. Do you believe control freaks can change? Hey, when you put it that way.. it's co-dependency. I sure hope they can change.

I'm a HUGE control freak. I've been told by friends my problem is I want constant control.

You had PTSD from breaking up, or something else? I guess six years is a really long time to throw behind.

Krys

Speaking of friends and family thinking he was an angel...before I told my boss (I lived in Florida with him for a while, we had moved there together and had become close with my coworkers) about what was going on I was suffering with this alone. We had a xmas party and I actually found myself hoping he would act up so someone could see what he was like and help me. Sounds funny right? I just was not strong enough to speak about it out loud yet. Anyway it went the total opposite direction. They LOVED him and actually invited him on a company trip. I was heartbroken. This was how it worked. He was awful to me most days, but to everyone else he was just great. Luckily they took my side no questions asked when I finally spoke up. This is how it works though. Emotional abuse is so hard to prove and is still looked upon as no big deal sometimes. I don't know if you see yourself in any of this or not, I just thought I would share! I wish someone had shared with me when I was going through it!

Krys

The PTSD was from the years of brainwashing and abuse and took a long time to recover from. I had to rediscover who I was, and stop looking at myself through his eyes/insults. I was very angry at him for a long time, but eventually I did not care anymore and I could forgive him. That was when I knew I was over him. Emotional abusers can recover if they WANT to. Right now I would focus on your recovery. I tried to get my ex to deal with his abuse/control issues and he got mad. I don't know if he ever dealt with it or not, I left him in Florida and never looked back! Some mutual friends have told me what he has been up to since (I have not seen or heard from him in 6 years) and I told them politely to stop. I am happy if he is doing well, I wish him all the best, but I want no contact, even 3rd party contact. I made up that rule 5 years ago and have no heard a peep from anyone since!

Jenny1232

Thank you for sharing... well, people believe me. It's been on-going for so long now.. that I always read the texts he sent me.. so people know. However, on his side.. his family, his friends - they all say I'm the crazy one.

It's true - we're both psycho and we both have issues. People HATE us together.

The PTSD was from the years of brainwashing and abuse and took a long time to recover from.

That really scares me. I'm 23 (I've been in four relationships since I was 13, and barely any period of being single). Each one was TOXIC. Growing up, it was TOXIC. My entire life TOXIC. Growing up, I was always told, "You should have been born blonde, or you're so stupid". Those things sure do stick.. and I feel like the biggest idiot ever. People tell me I'm smart, or there is depth to me... and I don't see it very much.

What did it take to work through your issues? How is your progress with it?

mooselips

Hi Jenny,
I've read all the posts here on your thread, and one thing, kind of came to my attention.

It seems like you have never been ALONE for any time period to try to work on YOU.

Maybe, you need a break from men, period. A cooling off time, to get some individual counseling and devout time just to YOU.


And the best part is there are men out there who are normal, not drug abusers, not controllers, that will love you. But it has to begin with YOU.


Hugs to you, sweetie.

Krys

It took a lot of self esteem building mostly. I would think of something negative he would say to me (just one little exercise) and find reasons it was not true. It's harder to believe what someone says about you if you find proof it is not true. I also went to therapy and started a journal for the PTSD and the eating disorder (they were going on at the same time). I would write in it EVERY day and then at the end of the day I would read it back and figure out what was going on. I realized a lot about myself doing just that one exercise. I was 23 when I left and did not feel strong enough to start dating until I was 25. I vowed to be single for one year and after that year was up I took another year!

Jenny1232

Oh Mooselips, you are sooo right with this.

At 18, I was single and celibate for almost two years. I was also hugely wrapped up in bulimia. I never got to fix me. A month out of treatment from the hospital, I met my third boyfriend..and we dated almost two years. We broke up.. and I was single for nine months. The last two months of that were the best of my life. I was single and HAPPY and doing all the things I loved to do.. then came my bf now.

So, I'm here.. trying to get myself back to where I was when I was single for nine months. I'm back into my active lifestyle (this is so therapeutic for me). There's nothing that makes me happier than hiking or biking through the woods, or climbing a rock face. I'm still in school. I'm finding my faith. I've been reading up on ways to find God I suppose you could say, AND trying to recover from co-dependency.

For once in a relationship, I am thinking of myself. I am not entirely consumed by that person. I'm fixing me.. like a normal, healthy person would...

Jenny1232

Krys,

What kind of ED did you suffer from? How did you work through it? Where do you stand with it now? I went to a hospital for once month when almost four years ago. I still struggled.. and honestly, it took my now boyfriend to help me fully recover. I NEVER binge and purge anymore. He fed me when I was hungry (unlike my ex who made me starve until he was ready to eat) and he taught me to SLOW down, and not have to finish the entire meal if I was full. He was the ONLY person who helped me, honestly... It's amazing to eat like a "normal" person, most of the time now.

At the hospital, I learned a lot about myself. My core beliefs, etc. I still apply those techniques daily!!!