12 steps for an atheist?
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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12 steps for an atheist?
I plan on attending a nar-anon meeting tonight but I am apprehensive about embracing it. I want to embrace it. But I want it to mean something to me and not just be something I go through the motions on. But I know it's based on a higher power, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience or insight about whether or not the idea of the higher power can be described in a way that will fit my larger belief system. If it doesn't fit it, it will eventually prove useless to me...
I'm not an atheist in the traditional sense. I grew up Catholic but now consider myself a potential Buddhist, in that I am practicing to try to become someone who can be called a Buddhist. I don't believe in the existence of a higher power that controls us or created us or knows what we do, but I do believe in the possibility that there is one there. I just don't think it matters in this life what that thing might look like, since it has no bearing on anything we do.
I guess my belief system is most aligned with "secular humanism" -- I believe that the key to understanding good and evil, right and wrong, exists in our own understanding as human beings. I do believe that we're connected by something, but for me that "something" is more of a shared reality as opposed to a single truth or entity that we each have access to. That shared reality is, simply, an awareness of what it means to suffer (that's the Buddhist part).
I've saved a few websites for information -- 12-step Buddhists are apparently actually out there and doing fine (fyi, "Buddha" isn't a god -- it's just a condition of enlightenment -- Buddhists aren't religious in the sense that they believe that there is a Buddha somewhere), but I was wondering if anyone here has any personal experience with it especially RE nar-anon as opposed to NA.
I'm not an atheist in the traditional sense. I grew up Catholic but now consider myself a potential Buddhist, in that I am practicing to try to become someone who can be called a Buddhist. I don't believe in the existence of a higher power that controls us or created us or knows what we do, but I do believe in the possibility that there is one there. I just don't think it matters in this life what that thing might look like, since it has no bearing on anything we do.
I guess my belief system is most aligned with "secular humanism" -- I believe that the key to understanding good and evil, right and wrong, exists in our own understanding as human beings. I do believe that we're connected by something, but for me that "something" is more of a shared reality as opposed to a single truth or entity that we each have access to. That shared reality is, simply, an awareness of what it means to suffer (that's the Buddhist part).
I've saved a few websites for information -- 12-step Buddhists are apparently actually out there and doing fine (fyi, "Buddha" isn't a god -- it's just a condition of enlightenment -- Buddhists aren't religious in the sense that they believe that there is a Buddha somewhere), but I was wondering if anyone here has any personal experience with it especially RE nar-anon as opposed to NA.
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Nice! Is it ok for family members to go to that forum? I haven't even browsed the other sections of the site because I figured we had our own little niche...
...my only experience with online support groups was when I was first diagnosed with PTSD...so I'm probably trained to be hyper-sensitive about triggers and safety, because we were a pretty fragile group.
...my only experience with online support groups was when I was first diagnosed with PTSD...so I'm probably trained to be hyper-sensitive about triggers and safety, because we were a pretty fragile group.
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Actually I've just done some more poking around on the site and the more I learn about the recovery process in general, the more it seems like it already fits so much of what Buddhism also teaches. The concept of detachment is actually the whole crux of Buddhism -- we suffer because of attachment, and we achieve enlightenment by detaching -- not hiding, just detaching, in exactly the same way I've seen it described here. Very cool.
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Location: Seattle, WA
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Anvil posted these proactive 12 steps a few pages back. You may find them helpful. I find that when it comes to a higher power, the only thing i absolutely must believe is that the universe strives for balance and I am not in control. Everything else seems to fall into place when i accept those statements as true.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iew-steps.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iew-steps.html
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Location: minneapolis, mn
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"Higher Power" can be what works for you, what you can surrender to, so that you're not just doing your own will, but believing that something bigger, greater, smarter, than YOU is helping you walk through it.
My HP is, and always has been, the Program itself. I do have some belief in God (not sure what God is) but still, that's what makes the most sense to me: to believe that the power of this program, working the steps like the millions of good people that went before me, and were given serenity, can work a miracle in me.
My HP is, and always has been, the Program itself. I do have some belief in God (not sure what God is) but still, that's what makes the most sense to me: to believe that the power of this program, working the steps like the millions of good people that went before me, and were given serenity, can work a miracle in me.
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
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One of my best friends started al-anon the same time as me, which is how we met yrs. ago. She was raised atheist and I study Buddhism.
We both embraced the 12 steps and are grateful. Remember, it is a Higher Power of your understanding. Don't find a stumbling block get between you and the steps.
We both embraced the 12 steps and are grateful. Remember, it is a Higher Power of your understanding. Don't find a stumbling block get between you and the steps.
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Well, I went.
The God stuff bugs me -- I know "He" isn't at the meeting, but "God" is there, and I don't like that. We also said the Our Father at the end of the meeting. :/ If the "God" isn't that important, maybe they could at least stop capitalizing it. Or something. I don't know. Not important, really -- sorry...
BUT -- it was good. I mean, it sucked -- I hated it, but it was good. I'm glad I went. There were a few other new people there. I told some of my story but not much of it, and nothing came out right because I was more concerned about crying too much.
That adaptation of the 4 Noble Truths and Eightfold Path is EXCELLENT!!! That will be what I carry with me. Thank you so much.
At the meeting they let me take home "Codependent no more," so I'm happy about that.
I'm a little worn. A few people at the meeting told me to call one of the guys on this sheet they handed around of group members because they said my story was much like his...but I think I'll email him first and try to talk to him later this week if he wants to talk. It's late and I guess Z has had a hard day or just doesn't feel like sending me anything...last night around this time she said goodnite to me and all that...I thought about texting her but reconsidered. I have to eat something now and then sleep. Another day of no work getting done, but I can try again tomorrow.
One thing I underlined in the material I got at the meeting was this: "We learn in Nar-Anon to Not be personally offended by the addict." That's what I'm going to try to think about when the bad feelings come up again, which they will in about 2 f'ing minutes. It's about finding compassion, and I've been training for that already...what hurts so much is that ALL I'VE DONE with Z is try to be understanding and patient, and it wasn't enough -- it still ended up in her accusing me of being cruel. I think I'm starting to get it, though.
The God stuff bugs me -- I know "He" isn't at the meeting, but "God" is there, and I don't like that. We also said the Our Father at the end of the meeting. :/ If the "God" isn't that important, maybe they could at least stop capitalizing it. Or something. I don't know. Not important, really -- sorry...
BUT -- it was good. I mean, it sucked -- I hated it, but it was good. I'm glad I went. There were a few other new people there. I told some of my story but not much of it, and nothing came out right because I was more concerned about crying too much.
That adaptation of the 4 Noble Truths and Eightfold Path is EXCELLENT!!! That will be what I carry with me. Thank you so much.
At the meeting they let me take home "Codependent no more," so I'm happy about that.
I'm a little worn. A few people at the meeting told me to call one of the guys on this sheet they handed around of group members because they said my story was much like his...but I think I'll email him first and try to talk to him later this week if he wants to talk. It's late and I guess Z has had a hard day or just doesn't feel like sending me anything...last night around this time she said goodnite to me and all that...I thought about texting her but reconsidered. I have to eat something now and then sleep. Another day of no work getting done, but I can try again tomorrow.
One thing I underlined in the material I got at the meeting was this: "We learn in Nar-Anon to Not be personally offended by the addict." That's what I'm going to try to think about when the bad feelings come up again, which they will in about 2 f'ing minutes. It's about finding compassion, and I've been training for that already...what hurts so much is that ALL I'VE DONE with Z is try to be understanding and patient, and it wasn't enough -- it still ended up in her accusing me of being cruel. I think I'm starting to get it, though.
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i am glad you went. i hope the "god" stuff doesn't get in your way - it would probably irk me to be in your shoes. i sometimes wonder about saying the our father at meetings - everyone is not christian. (but i do love the serenity prayer, even tho the word god is in it, because it is such a gem) but meetings are not supposed to be run by any one, or two, or three, people. it's a group thing. perhaps when you get your feet more wet, you can go to a business meeting and ask that this be brought up.
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