Ann

CB, I have followed your thread here and, to be honest, I see fear running through it.

"Just say no" doesn't work for codependents any more than it does for an active addict to be told to "just say no to drugs". By the time we are hooked in a relationship, whether it is a partner or a child, it takes healing and time and, for me, working a program to detach from the disease of addiction.

Normal, healthy people don't pick up drugs. Normal, healthy people see the signs of addiction and can detach.

I'm not a normal, healthy person. I am a codependent who lived in fear for many years before I found the courage to save myself and detach.

For the most part addicts aren't bad people trying to be good, they are sick people trying to get well.

As I said in a previous thread, I learned to love the addict, hate the disease. That doesn't mean I have to involve myself in the life of an addict or addiction. But it helped me replace anger with compassion and replace fear with faith, and that has made all the difference.

I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for...and if you are like me you will find that the answers come from within and changing ourselves.

Hugs

86753091

I've tried very hard to not use the word "normal" on this list for fear of not being politically correct, but I will go ahead and use it for a minute.

When it comes to any other human being on the face of the Earth, I feel I have a normal, healthy relationship with drugs and addictions, as Ann explained it above.

When it comes to my daughter it would appear as if I do not. I cannot detach. I have no desire to. She is my flesh and blood. Please believe that I understand how much nicer my life would be if I could, but my AD is not well and I can't live like that.

As I try to understand the world of codependancy, it collides with my normal world.

I do not love addicts. I love my daughter.

I think people with diseases should be treated medically and I do not understand what makes a family's position in doing everything possible to get this care for thier loved one considered enabling and/or controlling.

I have no compassion left, my life is filled with fear for my AD's life. I think fear is natural and good and is a feeling that should not be quashed. When my mind and body tell me to be afraid - I listen and do not try to detach. I think fear is normal.

But I'll keep trying to understand codependancy. It's what I'm supposed to do to help my daughter to sobriety. However unnatural it feels.

cb

sojourner

cb1504:

Dealing with addiction in a loved one is counterintuitive. If you're a reader, try "The Lost Years, Surviving a Mother and Daughter's Worst Nightmare." It's a diary-type book with a daughter talking about her journey into addiction and then the next chapter with the mother talking about her journey into her daughter's addiction. This book gave me a good insight into how enabling keeps a roof over the addict's head and how, even when the enabling stops, the addiction still finds a way to continue on but, in this case, to a good end. If the mother had not removed active addiction from her life, the entire family would have been sucked into that black hole.

Again, learning how to best help someone saddled with addiction is counterintuitive because we, the family member, bottom out long before the addict, and we are running on fear - mostly the fear that our loved one will die as a result of this addiction.

I could say a lot more - but instead I just want to encourage you to keep asking questions and looking for answers. This is a hard row to hoe, and one does not get comfortable with this overnight.

Ann

I sent you this link from the Sticky posts at the top of this forum, but thought I'd post it here as well for people who are confused about what codependency is.

Some people here are in crisis and need support, but may not be codependent. Much like the person who has a problem caused by alcohol, but who may not be an alcoholic, just someone who made a bad choice. This link shows many traits of codependency and may help you and anyone here decide if they are truly codependent or not. I am, to the bone, but I live well today because I learned to work a 12 step program that literally saved my life.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-1-a.html

Insulated

"God help me, but I'm really a b%#*h about this...let them die in thier disease without the comfort of a woman."

My late fiance' died of an accidental overdose in our bed. I crawled in bed to go to sleep and he was already dead. I did not know he was dead until sunrise when I got up to make coffee, and even, then turned on the television to watch Joyce Meyer. I was up padding around the house for 30 minutes before I reentered our bedroom and saw the cone shaped foam extended 3 inches out of his mouth. He died without the comfort of woman. He died in bliss of the combination of 6 drugs. He didn't care about the comfort of a woman, even though the night before he died he was begging to make love and I rejected him. Sad but true. This was indeed a tragedy and a traumatic experience for me, however, I was so completely D-O-N-E with his lifestyle or lack thereof, that if he died alone - oh well. I 100% agree with your statement.

SecretLife

I agree with Cynical One. I had NO IDEA what I was up against, but I knew my AXBF needed me almost every day. My kids used to need me, but they grew up. I need to be NEEDED. Although I didn't know how involved this whole codependency life worked. All I really know is that when I met him, I knew what I, Myself, needed. I confused caring for someone with loving them!

You may have cut ties with the man who passed away, yet there is NO WAY it did not effect you and your thinking.

Seems to me, it's simple, because I'm now remembering that I had a suicide, drinking and drugs in the toxicoligy report, effect my life. And I never want someone to DIE that maybe just ONE THING I said could have effected THEIR thinking.

This is your daughter, your child. I cannot imagine the pain you are going thru, wondering if Today is the day you get "the phone call" that she passed away! Even if you push it from your mind, it's always a fear. Because that's the reality....

Maybe that's where your anger comes from. It's the littler things that "set you off", but the bottom line is, you could lose her!

I will keep your daughter in mind for recovery, and you in mind, for the peace of mind you'll have when that day comes... just sleeping at night without the phone next to you "just in case", or actually going to bed vs. staying up, waiting for a safe return home, and the worst one, waking up, checking her bed and finding her not home yet, now you're up to sit and wonder. Anger may be your body's way for pushing away the HURT you feel underneath. That is a mother's love...

I'm glad for this site, but still wish there was no reason to have such a site...
that there was a perfect world, but there's not. But at least we have each other!

Kim

Insulated

You may have cut ties with the man who passed away, yet there is NO WAY it did not effect you and your thinking.

HUH? I never implied it didn't effect my thinking. Of course it did, otherwise I wouldn't respond to a post. Secretlife. I take absolutely no responsibility for my late fiance' death, nor do I volley the woulda, shoulda, coulda's of what was said or not said. The man, the addict is dead. I didn't force feed him anything. He did this of his own ignorant accord. Didn't cause it, didn't control it, didn't cure it.

Maybe you have two responding posts confused or maybe this thread got way of track.

86753091

Chino's post and my response have triggered a new little something for me to deal with. His mother's pain. I'd only met her once. She knew about his disease at the time we met, I did not. Back in the day my daughter was not an addict and I had not been through this pain of wondering when death will come and how I can will bear it.

When he died, I knew she was in pain and I knew it was hard for her - I just ad how no idea the depths of that pain and do not still. I never spoke to them, never attended any service, we lived 200 miles apart and the death occured in her area.

I just have a fresh sorrow this morning and it's not for him, but for her. Any sorrow, loss or pity I felt at the time for the loss of him is nothing compared to his mother's broken heart.

cb

Chino

I won't ask you again what detachment means to you, instead I'll let you know that I emotionally detached from my daughter on 3/20/08 while she was living with me. It happened in the midst of chaos. She still lives with me. She's had a thousand ups and downs in that time but I no longer personalize her issues/problems. If I do, it's lasts no longer than a minute. That's how long it takes me to remember it's not me, it's her.

I feel love and fear for her just like I do for my soon to be 25 year old son, and also my husband. My son is now a part owner in our construction company. I can't tell you how many times they've escaped certain death on a job site. Others were not so lucky.

There was no way I could go through life with my sanity intact if I didn't emotionally detach from all of them. I thought I made peace with fears long ago, but when I discovered my daughter's addiction, all I did was transfer every single repressed fear onto her. That lead me trying to control her instead of myself, instead of learning new coping skills because the old ones weren't working.

Every route to that place of emotional detachment is personal and different. My path took praying for all addicts, even the ones I hated. That led me to compassion and letting go. My life still has its ups and downs but I have precious serenity. The last time I had serenity like this was 30 years ago. It was always there waiting for me to reclaim it.

Understanding codependency alone won't help your daughter or you, but willingness and acceptance will. If you've made up your mind not to detach, there is no point. Your resistance will prevent you from taking another step.

I'll leave you be now, but I'll keep you and your daughter in my thoughts and prayers.

cece1960

cb,
There was a time when I felt just like you do. My one and only priority was to save my son, regardless of what it took. It took time for me to understand what I now know: I can't save him, but he can.

So, I was left with two options: Live in the chaos of the life of an addict, or remove myself from that destructive environment and live my life.

I think my motives for change were two fold:
One one hand, I still wanted to be a mom and mema to the rest of my family, and couldn't imagine the pain they would feel if they lost the person they knew.

Also in the back of my mind was the fact that I too, was somebody's daughter, and even though my parents have passed, they always wanted what was best for me. See, I am thier special child, just as my son is my special child.

cb, you are and will always be that special child to your mom.

Just some food for thought...

Freedom1990

I love my 32 year old daughter. She's an active addict. That's part and parcel of who she is currently.


Fear is a natural emotion. A certain amount of fear is healthy. I fear walking across the street in oncoming traffic. That's a good fear.

It's when fear becomes a driving force in my life that it becomes unhealthy.

I've been there many times in my life.

I never fully understood what my parents went through with me in my addictions until I ended up with an addicted daughter.

My fear-based reactions and decisions in regards to my AD and my grandchildren eventually brought me to my knees, and made me realize that God is either everything, or he is nothing.

It is possible to love a child to death. I watched it for several years where I live.

Her father was a long-standing member of AA, well over two decades, but he never got the whole codependency and enabling thing.

He and his wife made sure she never went without.

They lovingly placed her in rehab over a dozen times when she'd really go off the deep end.

She was never without a place to live, a nice car to drive, the bills were all paid, and they even financed a couple of businesses for her.

Fortunately he passed away many years before his daughter died so he didn't have to bury his own daughter.

However his wife continued to 'care' for their daughter until she got to bury her.

My AD is morbidly obese, already has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and abuses her Xanax on a regular basis. She'll be lucky to see 40 years of age. She's 32 years old now.

I don't know what God's plan is for her, but I do know I'm not going to stand in his way.

These days I sleep well at night knowing I have placed my AD in God's loving hands.

86753091

The post copied here was the short version for a person who had more to think about than my posts. Here's the version sent privately to someone on the list. I still do not think we should involve ourselves romantically with an addict. cb

In March of 1994 I was diagnosed with a relatively easily curable cancer. Thyroid cancer. I still had cancer and I still had to have my throat slit open to get it out. I only lost 1 vocal chord, so they did good.

My BF at the time was a crack or meth addict - I never knew which - he tried to hide it from me. I had been trying to seperate from him as well. Trying to go back to school, raise my then 9 year old daughter, work at the local mini market after school to supplement the welfare checks.

The day I got home from the hospital, he was laying on the bed wondering what was for dinner. I had to tell him I would think about it after I got a load of laundry in. He wondered if I would wash his socks.

If you want to call it "hitting bottom" I just hit mine and tossed him and his dirty socks out of my home. I had to take care of myself and I could not take care of him too.

Within 90 days he died. Suicide by cop they call it. He died with my name and phone number on his lips. The police came to my house to tell me what happened. They wouldn't give me all the details - but some guy phoned a few days later wondering if I wanted a copy of the video he'd shot of the whole incident.

But I had already let go. I was comfortable with my decision. I had reached my bottom and made up my mind. One day you too will realize you have to take care of yourself.


Death and remembering the death of someone close to you is never fun or easy, but sometimes useful in helping others to understand. cb

86753091

By making a choice to become involved romatically with an addict, yes, you chose to bring chaos to your world. You are free to chose otherwise.

It's my job to worry and it's my job to alert the authorities. It's my job to offer her a path (or several paths) to recovery. It's my job - I'm the mom. If while doing my job I suffer, then that's what I had to do get the job done.

People suffer various levels of emotional or physical things at a paying job, just not on the emotional level of mother and child.

cb

Freedom1990

I'm just curious. How well is that working for you? How well is that working for her?

hello-kitty

Maybe some 'career counseling' would help. Work smarter not harder.

86753091

This is where my love of sarcasm and irony crash right into a 12 step program.

I am not responsible for anyone's sobriety but my own.

What she does is on her. What I do is on me. I am quite comfortable with what I do to keep this girl alive and maybe one day help her to return to sobriety. I realize she may never choose to return to sobriety, but that does not alter my decision to do what I feel I must.

cb

86753091

And this is where a 12 step program fails for me. Most often the people of a 12 step program think that the 12 step way is the right way and chose to ignore other avenues. 1/3 of her life is a long time and I'm well aware of it. As has been mentioned before, I have been through everything - short of death, well there is $10,000 drug cocktail that's supposed to remove the craving for meth addicts that we haven't experienced, but short of that, I've experienced the "programs to sobriety". I refuse to comfortably sit back while she continues to head for death. I prefer to be proactive.

And I know you're right - she has to learn to detach. I believe her emotional growth was physically stunted at age 16 when she became addicted. Teenagers, like drug addicts, don't always listen to thier parents or other well meaning people.

Step away if you want to, I do not.

cb

Freedom1990

I actually reached a point where I detached from my parents when I was in active addiction.

I didn't realize at the time that was what I was doing.

My shame and self-hatred had reached such monumental proportions that I completely isolated myself from them.

I thank a loving God for finally hitting a bottom after that, and having people brought into my life who were qualified to help.

I mentioned in another post here recently that I will always have fond memories of rehab.

Recovery from meth is possible. That was my drug of choice in the end, and almost killed me.

I went to rehab weighing 109 pounds (I am 6' tall), I was pregnant, had blown out all the veins in my arms.

I embraced recovery, and I embraced life.

86753091

And that's what I need to hear. That there is hope for people addicted to drugs that are stronger than a mother's love.

Thank you.

Freedom1990

Those three statements are contradictory.