What Can I Expect?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 25
I'll try to translate "Several hundred dollar a week" habit for you
A decent rule of thumb is that Oxycontin (the pure pharmaceutical kind) tops out at about $1 per milligram. Of course it's higher or lower depending where you live and you can get it cheaper in bulk, and other opiates (such as vicodin) are somewhat cheaper. So I would guess he was using around 60-80 mg a day, which is a lot but not high at all compared to hardcore users.
Sounds like he is doing well and you have done a very kind thing by taking him in. God bless you both!
A decent rule of thumb is that Oxycontin (the pure pharmaceutical kind) tops out at about $1 per milligram. Of course it's higher or lower depending where you live and you can get it cheaper in bulk, and other opiates (such as vicodin) are somewhat cheaper. So I would guess he was using around 60-80 mg a day, which is a lot but not high at all compared to hardcore users.
Sounds like he is doing well and you have done a very kind thing by taking him in. God bless you both!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
kc,
i'm not an addict, but there is of course a higher propensity for this man to switch from the pill addiction to alcohol. my addict loved one never liked alcohol. drank it when he was young, with the guys, and got drunk, sure, but never really took to it. he is an opiate addict through and through. but, also in my case, there were underlying reasons for the addiction to be acquired. does it run in his family? were his role models while growing up people who used mood-alterers to deal with difficulty and their emotions? it is pretty complicated, if ya ask me.
bottom line, is if he wants to be truly clean & sober, and he goes to step meetings, he will not even start up with alcohol. (if it were my home, i would not drink while he is staying there, out of respect)
i'm not an addict, but there is of course a higher propensity for this man to switch from the pill addiction to alcohol. my addict loved one never liked alcohol. drank it when he was young, with the guys, and got drunk, sure, but never really took to it. he is an opiate addict through and through. but, also in my case, there were underlying reasons for the addiction to be acquired. does it run in his family? were his role models while growing up people who used mood-alterers to deal with difficulty and their emotions? it is pretty complicated, if ya ask me.
bottom line, is if he wants to be truly clean & sober, and he goes to step meetings, he will not even start up with alcohol. (if it were my home, i would not drink while he is staying there, out of respect)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Hi KC. Addicts have a tendency to replace one addiction with another - cocaine with pills, pills with booze, booze with video games, video games with gambling, gambling with porn... You see, it's not about so much about the quantity of drugs an addict uses OR which drugs an addict uses - it's about the behavior - the need to escape reality, the need to bury feelings, the need to be high on something in order to feel normal.
Your BIL may not be that bad. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery to get away from the pills. But more often, the situation we see here is that it takes more than a change of scenery to recover from addiction. It takes a complete change in the way an addict approaches life.
That's what it took me. A complete change in my approach to my life - the good times and the bad. I had to stop using drugs and alcohol to celebrate AND I had to stop using drugs and alcohol to deal with my problems. Drugs and alcohol WERE the problem.
That's why we recommend focusing on yourself, focusing on your life and not enabling an addict by doing things for them that they should be doing for themselves. So many times our efforts at "helping" actually "hurt". And what's worse is we become so enmeshed in trying to save the addict from themselves that we lose ourselves in the process.
I think it's great that you have given your BIL this opportunity to start over and it sounds like you have clear boundaries in place. Don't be afraid to enforce them. Do you have a plan in place if he relapses? Just think about it. I always say, expect the best, prepare for the worst. It doesn't hurt to have a plan just in case.
Learn the 3 C's. If you find yourself becoming lost in trying to help your BIL, you'll find them very helpful:
I didn't cause his addiction.
I can't control his addiction.
I can't cure his addiction.
It's all up to him. If he wants it bad enough, he'll get clean. If he doesn't, you'll know soon enough and your boundaries will stop you from enabling his addiction.
Your BIL may not be that bad. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery to get away from the pills. But more often, the situation we see here is that it takes more than a change of scenery to recover from addiction. It takes a complete change in the way an addict approaches life.
That's what it took me. A complete change in my approach to my life - the good times and the bad. I had to stop using drugs and alcohol to celebrate AND I had to stop using drugs and alcohol to deal with my problems. Drugs and alcohol WERE the problem.
That's why we recommend focusing on yourself, focusing on your life and not enabling an addict by doing things for them that they should be doing for themselves. So many times our efforts at "helping" actually "hurt". And what's worse is we become so enmeshed in trying to save the addict from themselves that we lose ourselves in the process.
I think it's great that you have given your BIL this opportunity to start over and it sounds like you have clear boundaries in place. Don't be afraid to enforce them. Do you have a plan in place if he relapses? Just think about it. I always say, expect the best, prepare for the worst. It doesn't hurt to have a plan just in case.
Learn the 3 C's. If you find yourself becoming lost in trying to help your BIL, you'll find them very helpful:
I didn't cause his addiction.
I can't control his addiction.
I can't cure his addiction.
It's all up to him. If he wants it bad enough, he'll get clean. If he doesn't, you'll know soon enough and your boundaries will stop you from enabling his addiction.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
KC,
My daughter didn't drink coffee or smoke until her first detox from opiates. Those two things stimulate dopamine, along with opiates, sugar/carbs, alcohol and marijuana. They all share the same pathway to the brain. AA and NA meetings always have a gallon or so of coffee brewing. I have no problems with my daughter's caffeine and nicotine addictions, compared to the needles she was sticking in her arms. She started off with oxy's, by the way.
My daughter was prescribed Welbutrin each time she detoxed to stimulate dopamine production, as well as to raise her blood pressure (it dropped really low).
Dopamine is also stimulated naturally with exercise, and it's important he gets at least a little of that every day. Sunshine will stimulate it as well, just 10-20 minutes a day, but given your location a tanning bed might do better right now LOL
Those restless legs are because his body became dependent on opiates for dopamine, and now he's depleted. Non-addicts don't typically have extreme nervous system symptoms like that unless they have Parkinson's disease. That just goes to show how haywire his central nervous system is right now. It's also the reason I said earlier to be aware of seizures. There's a really nasty, massive electrical storm going on inside him.
My daughter didn't drink coffee or smoke until her first detox from opiates. Those two things stimulate dopamine, along with opiates, sugar/carbs, alcohol and marijuana. They all share the same pathway to the brain. AA and NA meetings always have a gallon or so of coffee brewing. I have no problems with my daughter's caffeine and nicotine addictions, compared to the needles she was sticking in her arms. She started off with oxy's, by the way.
My daughter was prescribed Welbutrin each time she detoxed to stimulate dopamine production, as well as to raise her blood pressure (it dropped really low).
Dopamine is also stimulated naturally with exercise, and it's important he gets at least a little of that every day. Sunshine will stimulate it as well, just 10-20 minutes a day, but given your location a tanning bed might do better right now LOL
Those restless legs are because his body became dependent on opiates for dopamine, and now he's depleted. Non-addicts don't typically have extreme nervous system symptoms like that unless they have Parkinson's disease. That just goes to show how haywire his central nervous system is right now. It's also the reason I said earlier to be aware of seizures. There's a really nasty, massive electrical storm going on inside him.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
No matter what the drug of choice, the number one choice for relapse is alcohol.
There is a "pleasure pathway" in the brain that is to keep our species drinking water, having sex and eating food. That is the place where all those cool neurotransmitters live - dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin. Without the reward center, our species would never have lived and procreated!
The drugs simulate and stimulate or block those transmitters. Thus the "high" feeling.
Alcohol, sugar and nicotine all stimulate the reward center of the brain. And sometimes, once it is stimulated, the person wearing the brain can get a craving... a very real, physical need for the drug of choice.
I know one gal who was off methamphetamines for a long period (several months), then went out to dinner and had 3 drinks - just like a "normal" person would do. The next morning, she woke up with a screaming craving and went out and used that same day.
Recovery is far more than just quitting a drug and relapse happens waaaayyyy sooner than that first hit or puff or pill. Meetings, like AA, NA or other meetings, can help a person understand that much of what they are feeling is "normal" and what will and can go away over time.
Still holding you up in prayer. ((Hugs))
There is a "pleasure pathway" in the brain that is to keep our species drinking water, having sex and eating food. That is the place where all those cool neurotransmitters live - dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin. Without the reward center, our species would never have lived and procreated!
The drugs simulate and stimulate or block those transmitters. Thus the "high" feeling.
Alcohol, sugar and nicotine all stimulate the reward center of the brain. And sometimes, once it is stimulated, the person wearing the brain can get a craving... a very real, physical need for the drug of choice.
I know one gal who was off methamphetamines for a long period (several months), then went out to dinner and had 3 drinks - just like a "normal" person would do. The next morning, she woke up with a screaming craving and went out and used that same day.
Recovery is far more than just quitting a drug and relapse happens waaaayyyy sooner than that first hit or puff or pill. Meetings, like AA, NA or other meetings, can help a person understand that much of what they are feeling is "normal" and what will and can go away over time.
Still holding you up in prayer. ((Hugs))
Restoring myself to sanity
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,018
No matter what the drug of choice, the number one choice for relapse is alcohol.
I appologize if my last post seemed a little harsh. I did not mean it to sound that way.. When I first found out my AH was using, I was so naive about addiction and I did every thing that you are doing and unfortunatly none of those things worked. I learned some hard and painful lessons a few years ago and I wish no one the hell that I went through.
What did work for me was going to alanon, setting some boundaries and staying out of my husbands way. It was very hard to stay out of his affairs because I'm a "helper" by default.. but helping him was not helping me. It's so easy to get emeshed into the addicts life.. I drove myself crazy trying to monitor his every move, going through his things, asking him a million questions and only getting lies in return. My AH actually faked a detox and I was so naive that I believed him.. but now that I have more knowledge I know that a detox does not last one day and that an addict will LIE.
He even went to meetings and picked up his little key chains all the while high as a kite.
Oxy's were my AH's drug of choice too and they are a bitch to get off of.. most of the time it takes more then one try. His was a couple of hundred dollers a week habit too and the only reason that he is not taking them now is because he is on suboxone.. and don't even get me started on the suboxone, it's a great tool for some people but for others like my AH it's just another drug.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Port Orford, OR
Posts: 5
Just wanted to give everyone a quick update...
He's still has jittery legs, and his insomnia is still there, but he was able to get a couple hours of sleep last night. The sun came out today, and he actually went out and mowed our lawn because he said he couldn't enjoy the sun with it that long.
Thank you all again for your advice and knowledge. We've kept our OTC drugs out of sight, and are more aware of wallets, debit and credit cards, cash, and other things with our SSNs on them. We did buy him a fishing license...it was expensive, and he was actually kind of angry that we did it because of the cost, but he has always been a fisherman and we really think that tackling new fish and equipment will help keep him occupied.
He's still has jittery legs, and his insomnia is still there, but he was able to get a couple hours of sleep last night. The sun came out today, and he actually went out and mowed our lawn because he said he couldn't enjoy the sun with it that long.
Thank you all again for your advice and knowledge. We've kept our OTC drugs out of sight, and are more aware of wallets, debit and credit cards, cash, and other things with our SSNs on them. We did buy him a fishing license...it was expensive, and he was actually kind of angry that we did it because of the cost, but he has always been a fisherman and we really think that tackling new fish and equipment will help keep him occupied.
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