Ceres

Is denial beating me down?! Quick! Quick!

Is this all in my head because it's easier to blame non-exsistent drug use???

Then again,

The two times I said "You know what you're doing and I know what you're doing. You need to know that I know"

Left him speechless.

Didn't bring that up, should I?

I mean don't know about you, but I'd be asking "What do you mean by that".

Dunno. Maybe it's hookers, for all I know. (there are those bunnies again).

Ceres

<squeak squeak> Hampster Wheel.

Ceres

Here's where I'm stuck and might want some unput from people who are just staying away from my babbling thread:

I in no WAY meant for any of you to be quiet. I'd be utter hopeless then.

My stubborness may have alienated som @ss kickers out there. I'm ready to listen.

Suspicious

alizerin,
i once found pills hidden in a faucet handle in my ah's truck (he is a plumber). i vowed to myself that i will not ever bring those up to him. he will just deny it and i really dont want to hear what kind of sick excuse he could come up with to make that ok. i would just file that away and use it for myself when i doubt myself. i caved and confronted him with it once and ya know what... he had me doubting myself and wondering if he could be telling me the truth. i still snoop. i see is for the unhealthy behavior that it is. i dont tell him about the 'proof' i have filed away in my brain. i use it just to convince myself that i am not crazy paranoid.

so what did you say to him and what did he reply?

Live

LOL...I don't know your story well enough to comment....but please don't implode/explode just now! You do have enough time to pause and consider your own truths about your relationship and your feelings and thoughts.
hang in there, friend!
In the end it is your life and your thinking which will lead you...
how about some deep breaths and some calming time?

Ceres

He was sitting in the chair. I got down on my knees to be eye level. Not to see evidence of drug use. But because I wanted to connect. I said

"We have a serious problem here and I don't know what to do. You need (I know, word slip) to go to rehab. You're a benzo addict, a drug addict. It's got you by the balls. You don't have to be enslaved anymore"

To which I got was:

"What are you talking about?! We've been over this. I am not on drugs, your mind is bent on saying I am".

To which I said:

"You're in denial, there's nothing more to say, you need to go".

He says:

"Your giving me two, no, three options go to rehab when I'm not on drugs, leave, or admit to you something that's not true"

Got me, that one. He's at the door leaving for work "I'll pack my bags when I get home" to which I reply "We'll talk more when you get home".

No outbursts. An actual conversation. No eye contact either.

Ceres

I'm reading that and remembering outtolunch specifically said to get away from You, you, you. ARGHHH.

So, how do you think the conversation should have gone so I can undo some of this?

Ceres

You're right LIVE. I just keep going, and going, and going.

I wouldn't reply to this thread because I wouldn't know where to start!!

I'm now going to take a bath and use my massage chair. Play with the kiddos.

coffeedrinker

The bath sounds like a stellar idea.

Couple thoughts:
Boundaries - someone just posted a great tool on this - was it yesterday? - no time to look through and find it. Was it anvilhead? Can't recall. But, I think what Chino has written is certainly a good starting point.

I really think that you don't need to get quite so worked up about the details. Get your message down, "I can't live like this. I feel we don't have a true marriage. I believe with all my being that you are abusing the pills. I need you to leave." Oh I'm not saying use those words; they are but an example. Keep the statements concise, design them so they don't reel him into a debate, and have them all start with the word "I".

The truth here, sweetie, is that I really don't think he's so out of control that he is ready to give up the ship. The truth, as I see it, is that you're really trying to reason with someone who can't/won't reason back. I believe you're really trying to get him to admit what's been going on - you will feel vindicated, respected, and then you guys have someplace to go from there. He's just not playing. I really think that the more you make the conversation about "just agree with me, see things for what they truly are, and then we can deal with it" the more you will continue to be frustrated. You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable. Your truth vs. his truth. Ya know?

I had this conversation with my S/O just five months ago. The simpler I kept it, the more effective it was.

cessy68

Hey there hon, don't know if this is going to help or confuse you more, BUT I will tell you what my therapist told me, about MY part in things, and his own personal opinion about us codies, and 'acceptance', and his struggles with 'acceptance'.

(by the way, my therapist happens to be a big-wig of sorts in the AA community around here, he is a sponsor to many, and has 24 years clean and sober from drugs and alcohol....which led him to his current career).

K.

Here we go. He wrote me a note on one of his business cards, and it said, "I AM NOT THE PROBLEM". He asked me to focus on this. I told him that 'perhaps' I made mountains outta molehills etc.... and he said, "no, you made a bad choice in a partner, (and previous partners) and that is something we will work on".

2nd. About acceptance. He said that even HE, a seasoned professional in this arena, says that if you have acceptance, that means that you 'accept' that they have a drug problem, and regardless, live with it...... which means that your trust will be compromised, which means your intamicy will be compromised, etc. THEREFORE, one should ask themselves "what's the sense? Is this what I want for a 'relationship'?" simply because to accept means you can't 'expect' to get YOUR needs met by your partner, because they are on some levels INCAPABLE of giving that to YOU. SOOOOOO, again, it goes back to why bother trying to have acceptance? In essence you are allowing yourself to have a relationship with someone, built in utter dysfunction, becasue the 'basic' needs within a relationship WILL be compromised by drug addiction.

There you go.

Sucks -- I know. BUT i actually do understand what he says to me. It helps immensly to have his empathetic/non-judgemental ear to lean on.

ALso, I think the dynamics between say a brother-sister, or parent -child are different w/ acceptance, because the framework for intamcy etc. are different in these relationships.

Take care hon.
Love, the gf of a pill-popper.

Live

;0

Okay, let me see if I get this...you think he is taking chill pills and you are freaking about it.
He is a habitual liar.
He is grumpy.
Neither of you are enjoying your time together and you don't share eye contact.
You think there is a perfect right way to handle this.
You think that if you only knew the perfect right things to say in the perfect right way it would make all the difference in the world.
You think that how you approach it makes the difference between him being able and willing to get help or him leaving.
You want to learn really quick how to be the perfectly reformed codependent.
You are willing to take on fixing this mutual relationship by yourself.

!disclaimer! I really try to avoid "you" statements...but Alizerin and I are friends and share a sense of humor, so I suspended my usual style in order to try to check off for some clarity and see if I understand what is true here.

Please make corrections to my list or expand on any of those topics or add anything at all.

So glad you took a time out from the stress and worrying...it doesn't help a thing!

Ceres

hjdhjadhal

Ceres

Okay, I thunk I got it (at least for what is best for right now).

Live, Thanks for that!!!
coffeedrinker: "Your truth vs. his truth." Wise, wise words.
Cessy: "it goes back to why bother trying to have acceptance" Yep.

So, I've been wired for a good four days now. I could barely function. This is me making lunch for the kids: Stand up (wait ten seconds to remember why) Go to kitchen stand there (wait ten seconds to remember why). Go to refrigerator... My sister who generally keeps to herself downstairs. Probably thinks I'M on drugs. My insides were so tense that I had a hard time peeing ALL day (TMI alert).

Anyway, I was sitting on the couch thinking, I might very well be a medical candidate for Xanax. Seriously, I was in a place where that's exactly what they prescribe it for! Tight chest and all. So, I knew I couldn't get it that day. So my mind wandered right over to good 'ol alcohol. Quickly dropped that thought! Had to remind myself that I AM an alcoholic and having thoughts now and then is normal. But, these are not normal circumstances. So, the self-pampering yesterday helped immensely. I was blissfully tired for the first time since God knows when.

Sofacat, Slag - Listening? You both touched on this. :-)


It came in that second. It's needs to be about ME. Pronto. I told him that I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown. That my sobriety is now on the line. That I am sorry, I don't know what else to do. Would you be willing to stay at your parents house for a few days? I really need you to be a friend right now. (It'll be much, much longer than a few days, but there was no need to go there at this moment).


Weird how that works. So, I called my sponsor and some of other girlfriends. I feel at peace. At least for now. He was supposed to leave straight from work, that changed due to weather. I needed the car to get essentials due to the snowstorm. Roads were bad (his parents live 45 minutes away). It dumped like 20 some inches. We won't be able to get out the front door without a fight. Let alone dig the car out. It's okay. I am not mad or bothered by his presence anymore. He'll go in a day or two. That's not going to change. I'll be occupied here on SR or maybe have a horror movie marathon!

So what was his response to his emotionally wrecked wife? Bothered, annoyed at this whole thing, it's an inconvenience. It's all over his tone. I guess I can't blame him. I wouldn't want to stay with my relatives. Still, with all we've been through seems he'd show a little concern. Especially regarding my sobriety's well being. Whatever. I guess that comes back to: INCAPABLE.

Which brings me to my next Ah, HA moment. I don't care! I don't care if he's on drugs. I don't care if he's annoyed. I don't care if he finds his way to rehab. It's not MY job. We got him into rehab two years ago. He's a big boy. If he needs rehab, he can find his own way.

I've washed my hands of it.

Now, I will certainly keep an eye on him and offer support and suggestions. He's still my spouse and more importantly, the father of my kids. Of course I do still care, appropriately. The point is, that feeling of obsession and wanting a quick fix (Live) is gone.

<happy dance>

It'll also help all the way around to reply in the newcomers and Alcoholics forum. I know how to work the steps of AA when applied to Alcoholism. I know how to give suggestions in that arena. I can help there. 12-Step work, for my sobriety. seeing as meetings are out of the question until the snow situation gets better. Where on earth are they gonna put all this white stuff?

Slag

Ali watching you work this through is inspirational. You reached out and you got what you needed. This storm is far from over, however, that is not the point is it? It is about self awareness, boundaries, self-caring and survival. You have learned valuable things about yourself and the lengths you are willing to go to to stay sober, be a mother and execute your responsibilities otherwise.

I am happy and proud to have met you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ghug3

Ceres

Ahhh! My self-worth meter gained a needed 10 points. :-) :-)

endzoner

Brovo ... Brovo Ali..... well said my dear... I know that you know that we all know that you know, And that was well said ! again Brovo ..

As for the snow .. gurl dont even think bout bringing that white stuff near this side of the globe .. we got buttloads of it ourselfs .. ~ huggles Endzy ~

sofacat

Nice work Alizerin! Feels good to get that all out, doesn't it?

I'm so glad you didn't wait for today to say those things you needed to say to him. I remember holding my tongue and biding my time when Mr. Sofa was jammed. I would literally exile myself to the other side of the house to stay away from him. All the while I would be fuming inside. Inevitably, I couldn't hold my tongue and I would just explode!

Now that I understand the rules...and follow directions, my life is getting better and better every day.

So glad you came over to our side of the street!
Watching you progress has been incredible and reminds me that I am not alone, and with time....we do get better. You're gonna be a great help to newcomers that find us here as well as some of us who may ourselves in dark places. You have a great way with words.

Hang in there kiddo, you're doing great!

We're here.

PS~ Did you really have to send that arctic air of yours to Florida.....we sun people don't take too kindly to the cold weather!

coffeedrinker

Yep.

When I've experienced that, sometimes that realization makes me feel anger, cuz it seems so much that it's about their choices but sometimes it makes me feel pity. Maybe sympathy's a better word.


Hey, good for you

You dismissed the "alcohol thought" and called your sponsor. Perfect

You said what you needed to say and are detaching. So glad for you.

Hope you can play in the snow with your kiddo's.

meditation

Hey Ali,
I have followed this thread and you are amazing. I doubt I could have gone from 0 to 100 so quickly. Your comprehension and acceptance of all of this IS inspirational.
I do have a question though do you think being in AA and having worked steps or heard the message from AA has made this easier to accept? It's hard enough to be an addict or alcoholic in recovery and then have to deal with being the spouse of one and have to deal with that too? It makes sense to me that for you being in recovery and having your sobriety threatened by his behavior has warp sped your ability to get to the root of all of this so fast and get some peace.
Some here stay stuck for a long long time and I guess my question is what do you think was the biggest factor in getting your peace so quickly? And if you don't feel like answering this don't, no biggie.

Thanks so much for sharing your story here with us and I will keep following along. Hugs to you.

Ceres

Sofacat: "Now that I understand the rules...and follow directions, my life is getting better and better every day".

And that is what all this boils down to. :-)

Thanks for everything you've done Coffeedrinker. Including that vital phone call. Making you and everyone in here very real.

LIVE: Chill Pills! I love it. It helps ease the life and death of it all. I don't need that life and death grip!

Endsy. :-) My first friend.

Meditation thanks for that! I now have an image to live up too it seems! That alone might get me through the God-knows-how-many-days we'll be stuck in this house scenario.

I'm glad you asked what you did. As writing it out at this point will make it all the more clear. That's important for me. Need to put it all in perspective for future reference.

One more little thing, since he works second shift he's not around to see the kids in the evenings or mornings (sleeping) pretty much all week. This eases a bit of guilt. For both him and the kids. As I have no doubt it would be much harder on both ends if dad was there for dinner and bedtime. They already spend one night at grandma's most weekends as it is. He can take them anytime he wants. He loves these kids and they love him.

Okay...

"what do you think was the biggest factor in getting your peace so quickly?" Short answer. SR. Let's face it none of this would have happened had I not come here.

No doubt being active in the other fellowship was vital. I just realized I kept referring to Alanon and I'm in the substance abuse forum (I'm silly). Anyway, if you ask me, all these fellowships needs to point the newcomer in this one direction as soon as possible:


We can't listen if we think we know our situation better than the 125,878,575 people who were right where we are before. Now, with that said. Working the AA program hard for 2 1/2 years. Having insight, a spiritual experience, helping others, chairing meetings, Secretary meetings, going on institution commitments... Guess what I lost?


Remember my ego on the first couple pages? Yikes! I had no idea how far from Humility I strayed. But, Because I did experience it full throttle as a newcomer in AA, I think perhaps I was able to get it back relatively quickly.

I define humility as: Not thinking more OR less of yourself than who you really are.

Once that is understood and put into practice as best one can. All the wiring in the brain gets redone. Before it gets redone - It gets UNDONE. We get sicker before we get better. That gem also helped. As I knew this would all pass.

I can now have a new connection with newcomers in AA because of my experience on this side of the universe. I had no idea I was losing that precious gift. The gift of connecting. That sheer naked compassion. My sponsor gave me an appropriate dose of compassion, at the same time, she let me know that who I was, was unacceptable. I only thought I was giving compassion. I only thought I was feeling it.

I surrendered to you. I listened, I was but the village idiot! ;-)

As CofeeDrinkers Signature says:


I think now I can post some topics on a more structured basis. Hopefully, there won't HAVE to be anymore 5 page threads! :-)