Son of a B#@%!
Funny how this stuff works. I didn't plan on this route. I planned on coming to this forum to help newcomers, as I do work the AA program in my everyday life.
oh, but that's the beauty of this forum. you help us, we help you. i see insightful, solid response OFTEN from those who i know are still in the throes of "it" themselves. (myself, i think, one of them!)
Tomorrow I will in the same demeaner tell him that this can't go on, you'll lose your family. I'm going to give you until wendsday to tell me what we both know. You need help. You'll need to go into rehab to detox. You can simply tell me that you're ready to go and you'll go with my unwavering support.
i think this sounds great. it helps to have clarity, and to know ahead of time what you WILL say and what you will not. as a tiny piece of advice: when i have had these little speeches with mine, i have said, if it sounds like he's gonna jump in with a response (translation: denial) i calmly say "i need you to just listen to me first." or i start out the talk with saying that. for us, it always works.
As Sofacat said....I am his universe, I am the enemy. Pretty much polar opposites, but very true. I KNOW I am my AH's universe, but I am his worst enemy when he's addicted.
yep.
and, alizerin, i understand exactly what you mean about "no real behaviors". but that "no one home" thing is something you CAN choose not to live with. and you have.
i wish you the best. and i'm not bored or particularly wonderful. we get to caring about people here cuz we know they are real people with real troubles that we understand.
oh, but that's the beauty of this forum. you help us, we help you. i see insightful, solid response OFTEN from those who i know are still in the throes of "it" themselves. (myself, i think, one of them!)
Tomorrow I will in the same demeaner tell him that this can't go on, you'll lose your family. I'm going to give you until wendsday to tell me what we both know. You need help. You'll need to go into rehab to detox. You can simply tell me that you're ready to go and you'll go with my unwavering support.
i think this sounds great. it helps to have clarity, and to know ahead of time what you WILL say and what you will not. as a tiny piece of advice: when i have had these little speeches with mine, i have said, if it sounds like he's gonna jump in with a response (translation: denial) i calmly say "i need you to just listen to me first." or i start out the talk with saying that. for us, it always works.
As Sofacat said....I am his universe, I am the enemy. Pretty much polar opposites, but very true. I KNOW I am my AH's universe, but I am his worst enemy when he's addicted.
yep.
and, alizerin, i understand exactly what you mean about "no real behaviors". but that "no one home" thing is something you CAN choose not to live with. and you have.
i wish you the best. and i'm not bored or particularly wonderful. we get to caring about people here cuz we know they are real people with real troubles that we understand.
So here's the part where I ask you is it an acceptable part of your recovery to live with an addict?
What happens to us in these relationships is we lose sight of ourselves and focus solely on what they are doing. Not even realizing the damage we are doing to ourselves because we tend to have this "I got this" mentality and "we are the ones that have our sh!t together" attitude.
But do we really? It used to make me very angry when he would confront me on my wrongdoings. I would have this "How dare he!" attitude about it. I would justify my behavior but convincing myself that all of my unhealthy behavior were his addiction's fault...HIS FAULT. And if he were sober, I wouldn't act this way. I am "fine" when he's sober, and everything is "just perfect!" And if he would just stay clean...our lives would be amazing and everything would be just dandy. I kept waiting for that....10 years.
And then I started my own recovery...and I realized this isn't the first person in my life I have behaved this way towards. I am a control freak and a perfectionist...to a fault. I always perceived this as a noble attribute...until I realized it was a byproduct of my trust issues and low self esteem. It wasn't until I realized that I am NOT a queen....I am NOT unique...and there are others just like me, that I began to listen and heal.
You mentioned that you have children. One parent in recovery, one parent that is not.
If it is his choice not to get help for himself....so be it. His choice, but you have made the decision to stay sober and work very hard to maintain your sobriety, for yourself and for your children...I ask you again....do you think it is healthy for your sobriety to live with an active addict?
It all goes back to The First Step.
What happens to us in these relationships is we lose sight of ourselves and focus solely on what they are doing. Not even realizing the damage we are doing to ourselves because we tend to have this "I got this" mentality and "we are the ones that have our sh!t together" attitude.
But do we really? It used to make me very angry when he would confront me on my wrongdoings. I would have this "How dare he!" attitude about it. I would justify my behavior but convincing myself that all of my unhealthy behavior were his addiction's fault...HIS FAULT. And if he were sober, I wouldn't act this way. I am "fine" when he's sober, and everything is "just perfect!" And if he would just stay clean...our lives would be amazing and everything would be just dandy. I kept waiting for that....10 years.
And then I started my own recovery...and I realized this isn't the first person in my life I have behaved this way towards. I am a control freak and a perfectionist...to a fault. I always perceived this as a noble attribute...until I realized it was a byproduct of my trust issues and low self esteem. It wasn't until I realized that I am NOT a queen....I am NOT unique...and there are others just like me, that I began to listen and heal.
You mentioned that you have children. One parent in recovery, one parent that is not.
If it is his choice not to get help for himself....so be it. His choice, but you have made the decision to stay sober and work very hard to maintain your sobriety, for yourself and for your children...I ask you again....do you think it is healthy for your sobriety to live with an active addict?
It all goes back to The First Step.
Two things for opinions please before today's confrontation (which will be loving and caring):
1.) I'm thinking that it might be best to wait until the evening, as that's when he's calmest (highest). As it would just make it a teensy more hard for BOTH of us to deny when I'm staring at his stoned eyes.
2.) The ultimatum. Wendsday reasonable? Oh yes, I'll be sticking to it. Rehab or trial seperation. The seperation will not be vengeful. I really see it as a positive move forward. I'm in his way of hitting bottom it seems. This won't be done on impulse. Ideally, if he's willing and I'll try all my might - We'll plan the seperation and discuss how it can be done.
Now, whether or not he bolts out the door in a pissy fit is another question! I'm just determined to keep my side of the street clean.
I think I've come a long way in here in a relatively short time! Wow.
1.) I'm thinking that it might be best to wait until the evening, as that's when he's calmest (highest). As it would just make it a teensy more hard for BOTH of us to deny when I'm staring at his stoned eyes.
2.) The ultimatum. Wendsday reasonable? Oh yes, I'll be sticking to it. Rehab or trial seperation. The seperation will not be vengeful. I really see it as a positive move forward. I'm in his way of hitting bottom it seems. This won't be done on impulse. Ideally, if he's willing and I'll try all my might - We'll plan the seperation and discuss how it can be done.
Now, whether or not he bolts out the door in a pissy fit is another question! I'm just determined to keep my side of the street clean.
I think I've come a long way in here in a relatively short time! Wow.
Teke,
I'm pasting my previous post over here as it was in the thread and I wanted to make sure you read it. As I value the advice.
"It always comes back to behaviors, are theirs acceptable or not, are ours acceptable or not? And, am I the best me I can be regardless of them?"
I think we're O.K. and I say that tentatively. We don't argue in front of the kids or have screaming matches. We talk cordial. He just looks miserable and walks like the living dead most of the time. Oh, and he can snappy.
"What I find unacceptable is the fact that NOBODY's home. When he got out of rehab two years ago he was great. So, I did experience him. They say an addict is only 50% of what they could be. Just walking around 1/2 people. It seems more like 10% over here. So, it's the drug use that is unacceptable. I swear, I don't have one behavior issue so-to-speak that is unacceptable ---> it's Him being 10% human is."
I'm pasting my previous post over here as it was in the thread and I wanted to make sure you read it. As I value the advice.
"It always comes back to behaviors, are theirs acceptable or not, are ours acceptable or not? And, am I the best me I can be regardless of them?"
I think we're O.K. and I say that tentatively. We don't argue in front of the kids or have screaming matches. We talk cordial. He just looks miserable and walks like the living dead most of the time. Oh, and he can snappy.
"What I find unacceptable is the fact that NOBODY's home. When he got out of rehab two years ago he was great. So, I did experience him. They say an addict is only 50% of what they could be. Just walking around 1/2 people. It seems more like 10% over here. So, it's the drug use that is unacceptable. I swear, I don't have one behavior issue so-to-speak that is unacceptable ---> it's Him being 10% human is."
Now, whether or not he bolts out the door in a pissy fit is another question!
WARNING! :uzi2:
Prepare for the old "twistaroo" game. He may try to turn this whole thing around on you. He may tell you "it's all your fault" and "you are crazy, you need help, I can't live like this..." yadda yadda yadda.... You're getting in the way of his drugs. So buckle up and stay here with us. It's not your fault and stand your ground. You're doing great!
I'm just determined to keep my side of the street clean.
"atta girl!"
I think I've come a long way in here in a relatively short time! Wow.
SR rocks.....we are here with you. I've noticed a big change in your tone since your first "Drug Test" post. Good job Lady..."boundaries" doesn't have to be a four letter word.
PS~ I went the whole "separation" route because it was easier for Me to get him out of the house that way. I needed a minute to figure out "where I am" before i made any concrete decisions. I knew that I wouldn't "slip" due to my self inflicted guilt issues that way and I didn't want things to start all over again. The separation has really helped me with the time I need to get my strength back and "shake off" all the residue.
WARNING! :uzi2:
Prepare for the old "twistaroo" game. He may try to turn this whole thing around on you. He may tell you "it's all your fault" and "you are crazy, you need help, I can't live like this..." yadda yadda yadda.... You're getting in the way of his drugs. So buckle up and stay here with us. It's not your fault and stand your ground. You're doing great!
I'm just determined to keep my side of the street clean.
"atta girl!"
I think I've come a long way in here in a relatively short time! Wow.
SR rocks.....we are here with you. I've noticed a big change in your tone since your first "Drug Test" post. Good job Lady..."boundaries" doesn't have to be a four letter word.
PS~ I went the whole "separation" route because it was easier for Me to get him out of the house that way. I needed a minute to figure out "where I am" before i made any concrete decisions. I knew that I wouldn't "slip" due to my self inflicted guilt issues that way and I didn't want things to start all over again. The separation has really helped me with the time I need to get my strength back and "shake off" all the residue.
Ahhhh.. I'm noticing that word rubs people the wrong way! I'm just a little slow.
Okay, so rewording my purpose and rewiring my thoughts:
Boundaries.
He has crossed it by becoming a void of a person not saying that as something bad about him, it's just a sad fact! The boundary has been crossed. My detaching mechanism has been activated.
So, if saying by Wendsday, he needs to be able to discuss it with me. And if all he does at that point is reverse it on me... I need to tell him that we need time apart. A good month to get my head together (his too but I won't say it). If he's responsive, rehab seems the most beneficial action as he had good results two years ago. I've read posts about suboxone<?> What a pain that would be. I would like to see him in really good hands.
Okay, so rewording my purpose and rewiring my thoughts:
Boundaries.
He has crossed it by becoming a void of a person not saying that as something bad about him, it's just a sad fact! The boundary has been crossed. My detaching mechanism has been activated.
So, if saying by Wendsday, he needs to be able to discuss it with me. And if all he does at that point is reverse it on me... I need to tell him that we need time apart. A good month to get my head together (his too but I won't say it). If he's responsive, rehab seems the most beneficial action as he had good results two years ago. I've read posts about suboxone<?> What a pain that would be. I would like to see him in really good hands.
Boundaries.
So, if saying by Wendsday, he needs to be able to discuss it with me. And if all he does at that point is reverse it on me... I need to tell him that we need time apart. A good month to get my head together (his too but I won't say it). If he's responsive, rehab seems the most beneficial action as he had good results two years ago. I've read posts about suboxone<?> What a pain that would be. I would like to see him in really good hands.
So, if saying by Wendsday, he needs to be able to discuss it with me. And if all he does at that point is reverse it on me... I need to tell him that we need time apart. A good month to get my head together (his too but I won't say it). If he's responsive, rehab seems the most beneficial action as he had good results two years ago. I've read posts about suboxone<?> What a pain that would be. I would like to see him in really good hands.
i can't answer the question about whether to have the come-to-jesus meeting while he is under the influence (since he'll be under the influence!) or when he's more clear upstairs, since then he might be startin to jones for the next one, and be agitated. i think, you know him best.
i think the difference between "boundary" and "ultimatun" is subtle, but it is putting the emphasis on YOU....as has been discussed here already. i truly is an ultimatum, but it truly is a boundary as well.
also, i think it bears repeating that the goal is to communicate what's not acceptable TO YOU in the relationship. again, it's a sometimes subtle shift in what you really want him to do, because you care about HIM and your marriage and family, and what you are willing to tolerate, because you care about YOU and your family.
when he tries to reel you in, and start a debate about using, not using, he's doing fine, just remember to do this:
you are gonna be so ready...
i think the difference between "boundary" and "ultimatun" is subtle, but it is putting the emphasis on YOU....as has been discussed here already. i truly is an ultimatum, but it truly is a boundary as well.
also, i think it bears repeating that the goal is to communicate what's not acceptable TO YOU in the relationship. again, it's a sometimes subtle shift in what you really want him to do, because you care about HIM and your marriage and family, and what you are willing to tolerate, because you care about YOU and your family.
when he tries to reel you in, and start a debate about using, not using, he's doing fine, just remember to do this:
you are gonna be so ready...
I just image googled a light bulb and attached it to my post.
Feeling good right now. In a new kind of way. I'm not in control by any means & that's okay. I feel optimistic about my future whatever it may be.
Of course I don't bet on that being everlasting. ;-)
Feeling good right now. In a new kind of way. I'm not in control by any means & that's okay. I feel optimistic about my future whatever it may be.
Of course I don't bet on that being everlasting. ;-)
Originally Posted by Alizerin;2508521
I sat down in front of him, put my hand on his shoulder and said verbatim in a quiet slow, concerned voice....
"You know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. You need to know that I know.
And then *poof* [B
I sat down in front of him, put my hand on his shoulder and said verbatim in a quiet slow, concerned voice....
"You know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. You need to know that I know.
And then *poof* [B
there it was, an undeniable look of wanting to talk. lasted [/B]but a second or two. then *poff* again and it was gone.
Maybe it was gas.
Tomorrow I will in the same demeaner tell him that this can't go on, you'll lose your family. I'm going to give you until wendsday to tell me what we both know. You need help. You'll need to go into rehab to detox. You can simply tell me that you're ready to go and you'll go with my unwavering support. Try to remember and hold on to that wonderful feeling you had when you returned from rehab two years ago"
Then I'll remind him of just how great it was.
That is also the frustrating part, as I SAW it. I SAW him present and happy. I know what I'm missing. If no response, I will ask him for a trial seperation. <---- Need input on this.
Maybe it was gas.
Tomorrow I will in the same demeaner tell him that this can't go on, you'll lose your family. I'm going to give you until wendsday to tell me what we both know. You need help. You'll need to go into rehab to detox. You can simply tell me that you're ready to go and you'll go with my unwavering support. Try to remember and hold on to that wonderful feeling you had when you returned from rehab two years ago"
Then I'll remind him of just how great it was.
That is also the frustrating part, as I SAW it. I SAW him present and happy. I know what I'm missing. If no response, I will ask him for a trial seperation. <---- Need input on this.
A boundary sounds something like this:
I want to live life and love and refuse to remain in a relationship based on what once was.
Remember a boundary is only as good as the consequence.
Alizerin,
One of the first things I learned from this side of the street, was to stop using 'you' when it came to 'need' 'should' 'could' etc.
"You need help" became "I can't provide the help you need."
"You should" turned into saying nothing at all or "May I offer a suggestion?" if I truly had something important/helpful to share.
I had to stop telling my daughter what or how to do something, and let her find her own way. If she wanted help, she knew to ask for it and I knew to "wait for the question." I learned that last part at her rehab.
I never thought such subtle shifts in language would have a huge impact in my life, my thought patterns. Doing simple things like that put the focus back on me and my boundaries. All my relationships are more smooth now and very respectful. Especially the one with my RAD
One of the first things I learned from this side of the street, was to stop using 'you' when it came to 'need' 'should' 'could' etc.
"You need help" became "I can't provide the help you need."
"You should" turned into saying nothing at all or "May I offer a suggestion?" if I truly had something important/helpful to share.
I had to stop telling my daughter what or how to do something, and let her find her own way. If she wanted help, she knew to ask for it and I knew to "wait for the question." I learned that last part at her rehab.
I never thought such subtle shifts in language would have a huge impact in my life, my thought patterns. Doing simple things like that put the focus back on me and my boundaries. All my relationships are more smooth now and very respectful. Especially the one with my RAD
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 118
I have chosen not to be subjected to another person's substance abuse or dependency. Mine was too awful for me to handle.
To me it is a matter of semantics; ultimatum or whatever a person wishes to call it. I call it my rear end on the line and I will not put it in jeopardy under these circumstances.
I support what you are doing Alizerin.
To me it is a matter of semantics; ultimatum or whatever a person wishes to call it. I call it my rear end on the line and I will not put it in jeopardy under these circumstances.
I support what you are doing Alizerin.
"You should" turned into saying nothing at all or "May I offer a suggestion?" if I truly had something important/helpful to share".
See that's it. I already feel what everyone is telling me is absolutely right. I just need the Alanon vocabulary. I don't want to speak to him and have it all go to a pile of sh*t because I can't talk right! FOR me, I don't want that pile FOR ME. ;-)
"I can't provide the help you need." Brilliant! Don't laugh, seeing the obvious isn't my strong point.
Thank you Slag, when I get that cheerful "You're doing good" I feel that much stronger!
See that's it. I already feel what everyone is telling me is absolutely right. I just need the Alanon vocabulary. I don't want to speak to him and have it all go to a pile of sh*t because I can't talk right! FOR me, I don't want that pile FOR ME. ;-)
"I can't provide the help you need." Brilliant! Don't laugh, seeing the obvious isn't my strong point.
Thank you Slag, when I get that cheerful "You're doing good" I feel that much stronger!
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