new here -- dual diagnosis?
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
new here -- dual diagnosis?
this is from my intro post, someone recommended i posted it here too.
i have a big problem in that i can't seem to separate the addiction from the mental illness -- not sure where one ends & the other starts -- or if it's all the same.
anyway -- any advice would be great -- i know that he's just at the beginning of this -- not physically addicted yet to the point he gets sick when he can't use, mostly because he can't get enough -- but he is most definitley emotionally addicted.
i have a 20 year old son that i think might be -- and he's not interesting in stopping -- and i'd like some advice or stories from people about what made them get help -- especially if they didn't want to. he would probably fit dual diagnosis as well.
sorry this will be long.
some background on my son --
he had learning disabilities and speech problems when he was young which made school difficult. we had problems in our marriage when he was growing up, i think that was very hard on him too. i'm very willing to take my responsibility for my part of the problem. he was very shy as a child, did not like new things.
as he hit puberty, i began to see more of what i now know is social anxiety and depression. he begged & begged to not get help -- for us to just allow him to be himself. i love my son too much -- it makes me a pushover -- so i let it be. i also saw glimpses of paranoia, but only recognize that in hindsight.
at 15 1/2, he had a psychotic break. it was quick, involved about a week of no sleep, no food -- the ER scared the hell out of all of us and didn't give us any real answers, just wanted to ship him off by himself in the middle of the night when he was terrified. he did pass the drug test with flying colors though. we brought him home, got him to sleep & he came around. only counseling was recommended and it wasn't much help & didn't last long.
he was ok until he was 17 and it happened again. and i mean ok for him, he had a couple friends, but was pretty withdrawn. again -- no sleep, no food for an extended period of time. we skipped the ER this time and his dr recommended a psychiatrist this time. he was diagnosed with depression, general anxiety disorder, insomnia and put on anti-depression medication. it worked pretty well except it had to be constantly increased.
at 18, another break -- this time 9 days with absolutely no sleep -- we know because we took turns staying up with him so he didn't have to go inpatient. the right anti-psychotic was a miracle for him although there were downsides to it as well.
in the meantime, he would experiment with various other things to see if something made him feel better. he tried marijuana, didn't like it. he tried drinking, didn't care for it. he said nothing stopped the thoughts that were like bugs in his head -- he couldn't stop thinking about bad things that had happened to him.
so --- last march, my husband was in a terrible motorcycle accident and was almost killed. he's still recovering. there were pain meds all over the place, we were all having a bad time of it -- and my son started sneaking the hydrocodone. i'm sure he'd tried it before, it's all over the schools, he's had friends that have had serious health problems -- or stole from their parents.
in the past 6 months, he's stopped doing the few things he enjoyed. he says that the hydrocodone is all he cares about and it's his "life choice" -- that it's the only thing that makes him feel better. he's even planning on giving that speech to his psychiatrist today -- i don't know if he'll go through with it.
he says it doesn't matter if he doesn't have a life, because he never had one anyway -- that he's not giving up anything. that he'd rather be happy for a short-life than miserable for a long one.
as of last thursday night, he's not had any more access to the drugs. obviously he's not physically addicted because he hasn't had any problems other than the return of the depression. he wasn't taking it everyday -- he was sneaking it slow enough that we just weren't sure -- and we'd ask him and he's deny taking it.
he says that he'll find a way -- he'll hurt himself -- drive to mexico -- something. he hardly leaves his room, only leaves the house about twice a month, so i'm doubting he'll go to mexico -- but the fact that he thought about it disturbs me. if he hurts himself to get meds, i'm thinking it'll be the fast way to the psych ward.
he doesn't want to hear about addiction -- he doesn't think treatment will help him -- he just see's that he was miserable and suffering -- and now he's not. this is terrible to say, but i see his point. i think if someone had taken my misery away, i'd want to keep using too.
i have a big problem in that i can't seem to separate the addiction from the mental illness -- not sure where one ends & the other starts -- or if it's all the same.
anyway -- any advice would be great -- i know that he's just at the beginning of this -- not physically addicted yet to the point he gets sick when he can't use, mostly because he can't get enough -- but he is most definitley emotionally addicted.
i have a 20 year old son that i think might be -- and he's not interesting in stopping -- and i'd like some advice or stories from people about what made them get help -- especially if they didn't want to. he would probably fit dual diagnosis as well.
sorry this will be long.
some background on my son --
he had learning disabilities and speech problems when he was young which made school difficult. we had problems in our marriage when he was growing up, i think that was very hard on him too. i'm very willing to take my responsibility for my part of the problem. he was very shy as a child, did not like new things.
as he hit puberty, i began to see more of what i now know is social anxiety and depression. he begged & begged to not get help -- for us to just allow him to be himself. i love my son too much -- it makes me a pushover -- so i let it be. i also saw glimpses of paranoia, but only recognize that in hindsight.
at 15 1/2, he had a psychotic break. it was quick, involved about a week of no sleep, no food -- the ER scared the hell out of all of us and didn't give us any real answers, just wanted to ship him off by himself in the middle of the night when he was terrified. he did pass the drug test with flying colors though. we brought him home, got him to sleep & he came around. only counseling was recommended and it wasn't much help & didn't last long.
he was ok until he was 17 and it happened again. and i mean ok for him, he had a couple friends, but was pretty withdrawn. again -- no sleep, no food for an extended period of time. we skipped the ER this time and his dr recommended a psychiatrist this time. he was diagnosed with depression, general anxiety disorder, insomnia and put on anti-depression medication. it worked pretty well except it had to be constantly increased.
at 18, another break -- this time 9 days with absolutely no sleep -- we know because we took turns staying up with him so he didn't have to go inpatient. the right anti-psychotic was a miracle for him although there were downsides to it as well.
in the meantime, he would experiment with various other things to see if something made him feel better. he tried marijuana, didn't like it. he tried drinking, didn't care for it. he said nothing stopped the thoughts that were like bugs in his head -- he couldn't stop thinking about bad things that had happened to him.
so --- last march, my husband was in a terrible motorcycle accident and was almost killed. he's still recovering. there were pain meds all over the place, we were all having a bad time of it -- and my son started sneaking the hydrocodone. i'm sure he'd tried it before, it's all over the schools, he's had friends that have had serious health problems -- or stole from their parents.
in the past 6 months, he's stopped doing the few things he enjoyed. he says that the hydrocodone is all he cares about and it's his "life choice" -- that it's the only thing that makes him feel better. he's even planning on giving that speech to his psychiatrist today -- i don't know if he'll go through with it.
he says it doesn't matter if he doesn't have a life, because he never had one anyway -- that he's not giving up anything. that he'd rather be happy for a short-life than miserable for a long one.
as of last thursday night, he's not had any more access to the drugs. obviously he's not physically addicted because he hasn't had any problems other than the return of the depression. he wasn't taking it everyday -- he was sneaking it slow enough that we just weren't sure -- and we'd ask him and he's deny taking it.
he says that he'll find a way -- he'll hurt himself -- drive to mexico -- something. he hardly leaves his room, only leaves the house about twice a month, so i'm doubting he'll go to mexico -- but the fact that he thought about it disturbs me. if he hurts himself to get meds, i'm thinking it'll be the fast way to the psych ward.
he doesn't want to hear about addiction -- he doesn't think treatment will help him -- he just see's that he was miserable and suffering -- and now he's not. this is terrible to say, but i see his point. i think if someone had taken my misery away, i'd want to keep using too.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
i am certain he does not leave the house -- i'm home most of the time.
he doesn't even go outside most days.
a year or so ago, sometimes he would go out in the middle of the night to his friend's house for a few minutes. i always knew.
he is diagnosed right now as major depression with psychotic features along with the anxiety disorders. his psychosis involves major paranoia and delusions -- we're not sure about auditory hallucinations, we're pretty sure about no visual hallucinations.
he will not go to therapy. he tried it to humor me once, but did nothing.
he see's a psychiatrist -- in fact we have an appt this afternoon.
he is currently on remeron and klonopin. he's decided not to take his prozac and he's saying he's not taking the klonopin.
prior meds include lexapro, zoloft, seroquel, zyprexa, ......
it does sound like manic episodes -- but i've never been sure -- he never get's those super confident highs -- and it comes on very sudden. like one day he stops sleeping, second day he can say he's feeling paranoid, third day he's fully paranoid but still can tell what's real & what's not, 4th day he's delusional and we've lost him.
it makes this extra hard for me -- it's not like he has normal brain chemistry -- and it's not like he's always thinking clearly.
this is the hardest part -- on the hydrocodone, he is the most normal acting & talking than he's been in years. if it wasn't for the terrible things that come with it, i'd say it was a miracle drug.
he doesn't even go outside most days.
a year or so ago, sometimes he would go out in the middle of the night to his friend's house for a few minutes. i always knew.
he is diagnosed right now as major depression with psychotic features along with the anxiety disorders. his psychosis involves major paranoia and delusions -- we're not sure about auditory hallucinations, we're pretty sure about no visual hallucinations.
he will not go to therapy. he tried it to humor me once, but did nothing.
he see's a psychiatrist -- in fact we have an appt this afternoon.
he is currently on remeron and klonopin. he's decided not to take his prozac and he's saying he's not taking the klonopin.
prior meds include lexapro, zoloft, seroquel, zyprexa, ......
it does sound like manic episodes -- but i've never been sure -- he never get's those super confident highs -- and it comes on very sudden. like one day he stops sleeping, second day he can say he's feeling paranoid, third day he's fully paranoid but still can tell what's real & what's not, 4th day he's delusional and we've lost him.
it makes this extra hard for me -- it's not like he has normal brain chemistry -- and it's not like he's always thinking clearly.
this is the hardest part -- on the hydrocodone, he is the most normal acting & talking than he's been in years. if it wasn't for the terrible things that come with it, i'd say it was a miracle drug.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by blui
i have a big problem in that i can't seem to separate the addiction from the mental illness -- not sure where one ends & the other starts -- or if it's all the same.
We cannot give medical advice here, but we can recommend that you see if he will allow you to have access to his medical/psychological assessments (since he lives with you).
As a mother of an addict (who I am certain also has mental health issues) I send my prayers out for you and for him.
Hugs
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 225
Please see my replies to your other threads.
I and a friend who is similar to me take a small amount of a so-called antipsychotic (risperdal or seroquel) and I take an anticonvulsant as well. The former helps us widen our memory and get good context on issues, the dose isn't enough to make us drowsy.
I and a friend who is similar to me take a small amount of a so-called antipsychotic (risperdal or seroquel) and I take an anticonvulsant as well. The former helps us widen our memory and get good context on issues, the dose isn't enough to make us drowsy.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 35
found -- i did see your other replies -- thank you. i'll reply more when i have more time.
i sit in on his psychiatrist visits. we had one this afternoon. at this point, the doctor talked to him about the dangers of the opiates and we're switching hs AD.
me & his dad had a long talk with him prior to the appointment about some other things as well -- and it's not perfect, i'd love to see him in some kind of therapy for various things, but at least he's talking & listening right now which is better than the weekend. we kind of came down really hard on him when we realized what was going on.
i do know that his mental illness predated any substance abuse -- i have no doubt of it. i can point to specific instances of psychosis/paranoia from when he was very young -- in hindsight of course -- i wish i knew then what it was.
i'd like to thank everyone for the responses. i'll definitely be re-reading them and absorbing.
i sit in on his psychiatrist visits. we had one this afternoon. at this point, the doctor talked to him about the dangers of the opiates and we're switching hs AD.
me & his dad had a long talk with him prior to the appointment about some other things as well -- and it's not perfect, i'd love to see him in some kind of therapy for various things, but at least he's talking & listening right now which is better than the weekend. we kind of came down really hard on him when we realized what was going on.
i do know that his mental illness predated any substance abuse -- i have no doubt of it. i can point to specific instances of psychosis/paranoia from when he was very young -- in hindsight of course -- i wish i knew then what it was.
i'd like to thank everyone for the responses. i'll definitely be re-reading them and absorbing.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
blui,
i would like to suggest you read a book entitled "change your brain, change your life". it could shed some light on the neurology, just to gain an understanding that he is (likely) seeking relief from the effect of a part of his brain not functioning as it should. we all know this these days, about mental illness, that it is physiological. and (i believe) if a certain section of the brain is either over- or under-active, he WILL find relief, feel more "normal" when he takes the opiate-type drugs. pysch drugs are so complicated, as you already know, and it's hard to get the right one/ones the first or second times, sometimes. problem is, the use will cross a line to addiction, then out of control, right? this is what you all wish to avoid. it is my belief that when in active addiction the m.i. issues are much more difficult to address.
at least he is talking to you and has been honest about the using.
keep coming here and reading, and learning, and posting when you feel the need. there are a lot of caring and wise people here.
i would like to suggest you read a book entitled "change your brain, change your life". it could shed some light on the neurology, just to gain an understanding that he is (likely) seeking relief from the effect of a part of his brain not functioning as it should. we all know this these days, about mental illness, that it is physiological. and (i believe) if a certain section of the brain is either over- or under-active, he WILL find relief, feel more "normal" when he takes the opiate-type drugs. pysch drugs are so complicated, as you already know, and it's hard to get the right one/ones the first or second times, sometimes. problem is, the use will cross a line to addiction, then out of control, right? this is what you all wish to avoid. it is my belief that when in active addiction the m.i. issues are much more difficult to address.
at least he is talking to you and has been honest about the using.
keep coming here and reading, and learning, and posting when you feel the need. there are a lot of caring and wise people here.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Blui - I don't know where you are located, but here in Houston we have one of the leading psychiatric clinics in the country. I have heard that it is a TOP-notch hospital. It's called the Meninger Clinic (Menninger is the international psychiatric center of excellence, restoring hope to each person through innovative programs in treatment, research and education.) -- have you considered having him re-evaluated?
I'm so sorry you are going thru this. My son and daughter are both bi-polar and my son is an addict as well....so I understand how difficult it is. My heart and prayers go out to you.
I'm so sorry you are going thru this. My son and daughter are both bi-polar and my son is an addict as well....so I understand how difficult it is. My heart and prayers go out to you.
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