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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Someone in the mental health field once told me that guilt is a useless emotion. Guilt is different from remorse when we do something wrong. if you feel remorse you can make amends and take responsibility. just feeling guilty especially when it is unwarranted can control you into doing things that are unhealthy. Feeling remorse when i do something wrong keeps me honorable but feeling guilty especially over things that i cant control is something i just wont allow myself to do anymore. I look at guilt as a fact not a feeling. someone can be guilty but to allow yourself to go on a guilt trip is as my friend said a useless emotion. it is part of the control issues some of us have as if we could have done something to change the other person. Letting go of the guilt is an extremely freeing and positive action to take.
grateful rca
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
thank you winnie, i know i don't feel remorseful for anything concerning my ah, i feel as if i did all i could and for as long as i could(21yrs) to be there for him. i guess i maybe feeling guilty for not being able to except those things that i've excepted in the past. i still have a lot of me to work on, i think in the past i allowed that guilt to control my decisions, it was a norm for me but today its like i'm feeling guilty for not wanting to allow myself to be that way anymore, not planning on it either.
someone said earlier that maybe its growing pains. i sure hope i'm out-growing my normal actions, making the decisions that i feel others expect of me whether its best for me or not. i keep reminding myself that its not my fault so i have nothing to feel guilty about. that i have to look out for my own well being because he surely won't. its all about him with him, forget what i want, feel or think. hope this makes sense.
i thank all of you who shared your strength, i really have been doing a lot of think about what you guys are saying. i feel as if i have a long long way to go but i thank my hp that i'm not as bad off as i was.
someone said earlier that maybe its growing pains. i sure hope i'm out-growing my normal actions, making the decisions that i feel others expect of me whether its best for me or not. i keep reminding myself that its not my fault so i have nothing to feel guilty about. that i have to look out for my own well being because he surely won't. its all about him with him, forget what i want, feel or think. hope this makes sense.
i thank all of you who shared your strength, i really have been doing a lot of think about what you guys are saying. i feel as if i have a long long way to go but i thank my hp that i'm not as bad off as i was.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
some of us were made to feel, from a very young age, that what WE want or need isn't important, that someone else's wants and needs take priority. they might not have said it, but it is what we heard. we have been putting our SELVES on the back burner our whole life.
i was raised that when a woman or young lady wears a skirt, she wears pantyhose. then this current young generation comes along and they are going bare-legged everywhere, even in the winter! it has taken me several years to get over my bias. even when i knew in my head that it wasn't that big of a deal, my gut still argued. to this day, even when i do go "hose-less", it feels weird.
a trivial example, but it's what jumped into my head and i think it illustrates a point. change starts in our heads, it moves to our hearts, then plays out in our behavior. and it's rarely easy.
i was raised that when a woman or young lady wears a skirt, she wears pantyhose. then this current young generation comes along and they are going bare-legged everywhere, even in the winter! it has taken me several years to get over my bias. even when i knew in my head that it wasn't that big of a deal, my gut still argued. to this day, even when i do go "hose-less", it feels weird.
a trivial example, but it's what jumped into my head and i think it illustrates a point. change starts in our heads, it moves to our hearts, then plays out in our behavior. and it's rarely easy.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
teke,
my boyfriend just told me to tell you to get a restraining order, even before he gets out. i don't know how easy it is, but he says it is. you write a letter to the judge, get the order, then if he violates it he is in violation of his parole. i know you have children and they have a right to have a relationship with him, but perhaps this hard line would serve several purposes at the same time for you. at any rate, maybe tell him that at least for awhile you need to maintain the no contact
my boyfriend just told me to tell you to get a restraining order, even before he gets out. i don't know how easy it is, but he says it is. you write a letter to the judge, get the order, then if he violates it he is in violation of his parole. i know you have children and they have a right to have a relationship with him, but perhaps this hard line would serve several purposes at the same time for you. at any rate, maybe tell him that at least for awhile you need to maintain the no contact
Rest peacefully Sonny Boy
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Florida, Tennessee
Posts: 840
((teke))
I really think you answered your own question
"because i don't want to be the one to hurt no one"
You, like I, had to grow up way too fast, so many responsibilities. Striving for approval. I myself, always ended up feeling like I just never could reach that goal of obtaining the recognition that I craved and deserved, I wanted "good job" but got "why wasn't this done too" and it hurt, it hurt bad. As a result in my adult life, I can't bring myself to hurt other peoples feelings, even to my own detriment, I feel compelled to shield them from the pain and disappointment that I had experienced. It's part of my co-dependernt nature. Nurture and protect others from the pain. Empathy to a point, but in truth, when it comes to me having to do something that may be right, justified and what I want, but I know it will hurt someone, then I feel guilty. As a child, I swore I would never ever hurt someone the way that I had been hurt.
I recognize it now, I realize that I am transferring those emotions from my childhood to my adult life, but I took it one step further. I would never ever hurt someone in the ways that I was hurt as a child, but instead, I refused to hurt anyone for ANYTHING. Even when it was in my best interest.
Accepting that hurting someones feeling or causing them pain in any way, was ok when it was in everyone's best interest, or even if it was just in my best interest.
In your case, it may really help alot to think about the damage it would do to you and to him if you were to decide not to hurt him. You deserve happiness and someone that you are comfortable around. He deserves someone who is happy and confortable around him. So by not hurting him now, you do more hurt and damage in the long run.
Does any of that help?
B
I really think you answered your own question
"because i don't want to be the one to hurt no one"
You, like I, had to grow up way too fast, so many responsibilities. Striving for approval. I myself, always ended up feeling like I just never could reach that goal of obtaining the recognition that I craved and deserved, I wanted "good job" but got "why wasn't this done too" and it hurt, it hurt bad. As a result in my adult life, I can't bring myself to hurt other peoples feelings, even to my own detriment, I feel compelled to shield them from the pain and disappointment that I had experienced. It's part of my co-dependernt nature. Nurture and protect others from the pain. Empathy to a point, but in truth, when it comes to me having to do something that may be right, justified and what I want, but I know it will hurt someone, then I feel guilty. As a child, I swore I would never ever hurt someone the way that I had been hurt.
I recognize it now, I realize that I am transferring those emotions from my childhood to my adult life, but I took it one step further. I would never ever hurt someone in the ways that I was hurt as a child, but instead, I refused to hurt anyone for ANYTHING. Even when it was in my best interest.
Accepting that hurting someones feeling or causing them pain in any way, was ok when it was in everyone's best interest, or even if it was just in my best interest.
In your case, it may really help alot to think about the damage it would do to you and to him if you were to decide not to hurt him. You deserve happiness and someone that you are comfortable around. He deserves someone who is happy and confortable around him. So by not hurting him now, you do more hurt and damage in the long run.
Does any of that help?
B
grateful rca
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
Originally Posted by coffeedrinker 
some of us were made to feel, from a very young age, that what WE want or need isn't important, that someone else's wants and needs take priority. they might not have said it, but it is what we heard. we have been putting our SELVES on the back burner our whole life.
tell your boyfriend that a restraining order is a good idea. i've had a standing order for yrs now besides he knows I WILL NOT allow him to even come my way if i say he can't. as for the kids, i can always take them to him at his mom's but they don't seem to ever want to go. they are not all that close to his side of the family and i dont push the issue.
i really don't want to talk to him about anything other than maybe the weather or maybe the kids. i think its forgiveness but i haven't forgot how he left us yrs ago. he thought we were down for the count, to the point of no return, i guess.
he destroyed the car, we had absolutely no food, utilities being shut off, being evicted, no money and me disabled, (domestic violence),i believe, due to one of his drug induced rages. he left, looked back, laughed and said he didn't want to have anything else to do with me or the kids. i will never forget that day even though its not the first time that happened. him knowing that we did get through all of that, by the grace of god, makes me so grateful that he's not god. i really don't feel i owe him no explanations.
i know i must sound like a total fool going through all of that but i was so sick, i didn't realize just how bad it was until i was able to be away from it for awhile. i won't allow myself to dwell on regrets because i've learned a valuable lesson. i may not know what i want in a relationship but i sure as heck know what i don't want or except. i matter to me. i guess i needed to get all of that out, sorry.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Teke)))
I just read your last post, and I know the feeling. I didn't suffer the physical abuse, and don't have kids, but went through 20+ years of emotional abuse and felt the same way. I look back and wonder "how in the heck could I have put up with that, for all those years?!?! Was I THAT stupid?!?!?"
I, too, learned some valuable lessons. Unfortunatley, that relationship led to my own addiction, a couple MORE A relationships before I found recovery from both my addiction and codie-ness. For me, they are closely intertwined.
We ARE stronger because of what we went through, and like you, I don't know what I want, but sure as heck know what I DON'T want!!
I DO think you are going through "growing pains" and are at the point you KNOW you are through...you're just working through the emotions. I went through similar emotions for a while before I could finally just say "enough".
I also think he senses the change in you, and he doesn't like it. He feels that this time is different (and that's a good sign...you're making progress) and he's trying, desperately, to reel you back in. IMO, he doesn't want to make everything all better...he's just saying what he thinks you want to hear, to keep you "handy"...at least that's MY experience.
Keep posting and working through it, sweetie.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I just read your last post, and I know the feeling. I didn't suffer the physical abuse, and don't have kids, but went through 20+ years of emotional abuse and felt the same way. I look back and wonder "how in the heck could I have put up with that, for all those years?!?! Was I THAT stupid?!?!?"
I, too, learned some valuable lessons. Unfortunatley, that relationship led to my own addiction, a couple MORE A relationships before I found recovery from both my addiction and codie-ness. For me, they are closely intertwined.
We ARE stronger because of what we went through, and like you, I don't know what I want, but sure as heck know what I DON'T want!!
I DO think you are going through "growing pains" and are at the point you KNOW you are through...you're just working through the emotions. I went through similar emotions for a while before I could finally just say "enough".
I also think he senses the change in you, and he doesn't like it. He feels that this time is different (and that's a good sign...you're making progress) and he's trying, desperately, to reel you back in. IMO, he doesn't want to make everything all better...he's just saying what he thinks you want to hear, to keep you "handy"...at least that's MY experience.
Keep posting and working through it, sweetie.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
grateful rca
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
Originally Posted by Impurrfect
I, too, learned some valuable lessons. Unfortunatley, that relationship led to my own addiction,
I also think he senses the change in you, and he doesn't like it. He feels that this time is different (and that's a good sign...you're making progress) and he's trying, desperately, to reel you back in. IMO, he doesn't want to make everything all better...he's just saying what he thinks you want to hear, to keep you "handy"...at least that's MY experience.
i totally agree that he thinks he can tell me what he thinks i want to hear, but did he forget that he admitted to doing that after he got out of prison the last time? i think he thinks it must be cute or something. he actually admitted that he was using me while in prison one other time. yea i wrote letters and send money but i promised myself that i would write no more letters or send no more of the little money that i did have, to him. i promised myself that i would not be his comfortor or his connection to the outside world. (boundary that i didn't realize i had set for myself but gonna stick to). that maybe why i just don't care to write any kind of letter especially since he asked me to.
i was taught to be careful how i treat others because i'll never know when i may need that very person who i mistreat but i'm now learning that i have to be careful how i treat me first or allow others to treat me.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Teke))) you aren't mistreating him. You are simply detaching....BIG difference. You've been respectful, you've told him over, and over, and over how you feel and don't feel. He's just trying to reel you in again and pretending he didn't hear you.
I HATE jail talk....it sounds so good, but they never follow through.
I told my ex that I DID still love him...we had a past, but I was no longer IN love with him and we would never be together again. I was lucky he let it go. I just found out, yesterday that he died a couple of weeks ago...in a crack house.
He couldn't/wouldn't stop using. He'd just recently gotten out of jail and during that time had sent ME a "jail talk" letter....making all kinds of promises.
I am broken-hearted, but am very grateful that I didn't allow myself to get sucked back in. I had no expectations and I made myself very clear on my feelings. He made his choices, and now he's gone.
You and I both know death is a possibility out there, using, but I guess I didn't really think it would happen. I absolutely don't regret my decision, though. I HAD to detach from him...I HAD to keep that distance. I was never mean to him, gave him moral support (but no money) and I only did that after a year or so with no contact. I know you have kids together, so that may not work for you. The only contact I DID have with him is when I'd find out he was in jail, I would write. I mostly talked about his mama (she died 2 years ago and I adored her) and about how well I was doing in recovery...hoping it would spark something in him....it didn't work.
I don't like to hurt anyone's feelings, either, but I've finally gotten to the point where I realize MY feelings matter, too, darn it!
I don't want you to think "OMG what if he died? I need to keep in contact"....it's because I DIDN'T keep in contact, other than the occasional letters, that I'm at peace, although grieving. I handed him over to HP a long time ago...I couldn't do anything for him.
Big hugs and prayers, sweetie!
Amy
I HATE jail talk....it sounds so good, but they never follow through.
I told my ex that I DID still love him...we had a past, but I was no longer IN love with him and we would never be together again. I was lucky he let it go. I just found out, yesterday that he died a couple of weeks ago...in a crack house.
He couldn't/wouldn't stop using. He'd just recently gotten out of jail and during that time had sent ME a "jail talk" letter....making all kinds of promises.
I am broken-hearted, but am very grateful that I didn't allow myself to get sucked back in. I had no expectations and I made myself very clear on my feelings. He made his choices, and now he's gone.
You and I both know death is a possibility out there, using, but I guess I didn't really think it would happen. I absolutely don't regret my decision, though. I HAD to detach from him...I HAD to keep that distance. I was never mean to him, gave him moral support (but no money) and I only did that after a year or so with no contact. I know you have kids together, so that may not work for you. The only contact I DID have with him is when I'd find out he was in jail, I would write. I mostly talked about his mama (she died 2 years ago and I adored her) and about how well I was doing in recovery...hoping it would spark something in him....it didn't work.
I don't like to hurt anyone's feelings, either, but I've finally gotten to the point where I realize MY feelings matter, too, darn it!
I don't want you to think "OMG what if he died? I need to keep in contact"....it's because I DIDN'T keep in contact, other than the occasional letters, that I'm at peace, although grieving. I handed him over to HP a long time ago...I couldn't do anything for him.
Big hugs and prayers, sweetie!
Amy
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Teke, I could be projecting to much of my situation on to yours but here is what I tell myself daily when it comes to my ex. It goes beyond addiction for him. He is a sick man. He's missing something - mentally.
That's probably how it is with your ex, with 99% of addicts, and with 99% of the guys he is in prison with. His behavior is status quo but there is NOTHING we can do to help them or change them or influence them in anyway. They act according to their animal instincts, their disturbed needs, whatever it takes for them to get by. And they are incapable of truly caring deeply about anyone else but themselves. But they are great manipulators.
Your ex and my ex - they are just sick people. We can't overanalyze them. We will NEVER understand what they are doing or why they are doing it. Sure we may project our thoughts or our understandings on their behavior. But even they don't really understand their behavior. So how can we?
I hope you don't spend too much time worrying about this. It is what it is sweetie-pie. He is a mess. He will always be a mess. And, if ever given a chance, he will try to mess up everyone he knows because that is just what he does.
(((hugs)))
I don't know you. I don't know your ex. But I see a lot of similarities... ;-) It could just be me projecting though. So forgive me if I am way off base.
You are doing great.
That's probably how it is with your ex, with 99% of addicts, and with 99% of the guys he is in prison with. His behavior is status quo but there is NOTHING we can do to help them or change them or influence them in anyway. They act according to their animal instincts, their disturbed needs, whatever it takes for them to get by. And they are incapable of truly caring deeply about anyone else but themselves. But they are great manipulators.
Your ex and my ex - they are just sick people. We can't overanalyze them. We will NEVER understand what they are doing or why they are doing it. Sure we may project our thoughts or our understandings on their behavior. But even they don't really understand their behavior. So how can we?
I hope you don't spend too much time worrying about this. It is what it is sweetie-pie. He is a mess. He will always be a mess. And, if ever given a chance, he will try to mess up everyone he knows because that is just what he does.
(((hugs)))
I don't know you. I don't know your ex. But I see a lot of similarities... ;-) It could just be me projecting though. So forgive me if I am way off base.
You are doing great.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
I really REALLY don't like not having the thank you button; it was one of my closest friends here on SR. Sooooooooooooo, teke, you've received some great responses here; not much more for me to add except......U GO GIRL!!!!
I was going to do the next in PM's as they're a tad off-topic, but what the hey; I'm here now, and I'll try to make it short............:
teke, you said a bit ago, "...i promised myself that i would write no more letters or send no more of the little money that i did have, to him. i promised myself that i would not be his comfortor or his connection to the outside world. (boundary that i didn't realize i had set for myself but gonna stick to). that maybe why i just don't care to write any kind of letter especially since he asked me to..."
---- I feel this is a very good thing for you, at least for now. Right now you're a bit raw, and there's no sense in adding to drama with misunderstood writings ('interpreted' or 'misinterpreted' writings...etc...on his end; not yours---many alcoholics/addicts love to interpret what other folks 'mean' instead of just taking the words themselves for what they mean). There may come a time when you'll be able to (write and do what's needed for the kids); like Impurrfect wrote about her experience, but I got the impression that it took a while.....eh.....?
.....and lastly (and absolutely off-topic)......:
Impurrfect, when you wrote, concerning your 'no contact' time and about when you did write.....: "...The only contact I DID have with him is when I'd find out he was in jail, I would write. I mostly talked about his mama (she died 2 years ago and I adored her) and about how well I was doing in recovery...hoping it would spark something in him....it didn't work..." ---- I'm sorry, but I must disagree here.....it certainly did work; you're still around, and clean.....(yes, I know that isn't really what you meant, but I just wanted to end on, at least a semi, up note.....)........ (o:
NoelleR
I was going to do the next in PM's as they're a tad off-topic, but what the hey; I'm here now, and I'll try to make it short............:
teke, you said a bit ago, "...i promised myself that i would write no more letters or send no more of the little money that i did have, to him. i promised myself that i would not be his comfortor or his connection to the outside world. (boundary that i didn't realize i had set for myself but gonna stick to). that maybe why i just don't care to write any kind of letter especially since he asked me to..."
---- I feel this is a very good thing for you, at least for now. Right now you're a bit raw, and there's no sense in adding to drama with misunderstood writings ('interpreted' or 'misinterpreted' writings...etc...on his end; not yours---many alcoholics/addicts love to interpret what other folks 'mean' instead of just taking the words themselves for what they mean). There may come a time when you'll be able to (write and do what's needed for the kids); like Impurrfect wrote about her experience, but I got the impression that it took a while.....eh.....?
.....and lastly (and absolutely off-topic)......:
Impurrfect, when you wrote, concerning your 'no contact' time and about when you did write.....: "...The only contact I DID have with him is when I'd find out he was in jail, I would write. I mostly talked about his mama (she died 2 years ago and I adored her) and about how well I was doing in recovery...hoping it would spark something in him....it didn't work..." ---- I'm sorry, but I must disagree here.....it certainly did work; you're still around, and clean.....(yes, I know that isn't really what you meant, but I just wanted to end on, at least a semi, up note.....)........ (o:
NoelleR
grateful rca
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
OMG, you guys are good, thanks. i thought i was the only one missing my "THANKS" button. ok, patience is a virtue.
IMPURRFECT, I'm so sorry to hear about your ex. i'm sure you did your best to be there for him. yes i know that death is a possibility but what can we do other than pray and turn them over. your ex is at peace now and i'm sure he realized that you were doing what you needed to do to protect yourself. i pray that your hp will comfort you in your time of grief.
KITTY, no, by the grace of god, i don't worry about him anymore and it truly feels like a miracle. i believe you are right about him being a sick person, even without addiction. i honestly think there really is something missing. i actually ask his mom once if he had a mental problem as she knew of and she DID NOT like me asking her that at all, she got really angry and called me disrespectful. i never understood her reasons but then i don't have to. her opinions don't have anything to do with me as far as i'm concerned.
NOELLER, guess i my feelings may be a bit raw still and no i do not feel up to dealing with all that drama. like you said, he'll probably misunderstand anything i could write anyway.
i guess, maybe one day and i don't feel like i have to be in a hurry to do anything.
IMPURRFECT, I'm so sorry to hear about your ex. i'm sure you did your best to be there for him. yes i know that death is a possibility but what can we do other than pray and turn them over. your ex is at peace now and i'm sure he realized that you were doing what you needed to do to protect yourself. i pray that your hp will comfort you in your time of grief.
KITTY, no, by the grace of god, i don't worry about him anymore and it truly feels like a miracle. i believe you are right about him being a sick person, even without addiction. i honestly think there really is something missing. i actually ask his mom once if he had a mental problem as she knew of and she DID NOT like me asking her that at all, she got really angry and called me disrespectful. i never understood her reasons but then i don't have to. her opinions don't have anything to do with me as far as i'm concerned.
NOELLER, guess i my feelings may be a bit raw still and no i do not feel up to dealing with all that drama. like you said, he'll probably misunderstand anything i could write anyway.
i guess, maybe one day and i don't feel like i have to be in a hurry to do anything.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Teke))) - the only way my heart, head and gut ever got on the same page was time and detachment. You're absolutely right to not hurry. You've been going through this for a long time and it takes time to undo what we've programmed ourselves to do and feel. We CAN do it, though, and you are making progress.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
grateful rca
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
thanks impurrfect, my guess is that it may take him some time to get deprogrammed too. he is so use to me falling for the things he SAY and he seems to think its all about him not having a job, like him working and sending us money is gonna change the way i'm thinking/feeling right now. go figure!!!!!!!!!!
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