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URMYEVERYTHING 09-19-2009 06:59 PM

A Real Hard Look at Codependency
 
Sorry so long but good info... Author is mentioned at bottom of the article.

When Emotional Issues or Personality Disorders Effect Our Availability—Codependency
(Codependent excerpts taken from Why Women Cheat)

Codependency

"My husband was codependent. Although he thought he was doing everything for me, in reality he was never there for me. Everything was about him..."

"I give and give to her. Everything I do is for her. She never appreciates anything I do anymore..."

Sharon Wegscheider-Cruse, provides an excellent definition of Codependency. She describes it as:

"a specific condition that is characterized by preoccupation and extreme dependence — emotionally, socially and sometimes physically — on a person or object. Eventually, this dependency on another person [or object] becomes a pathological condition that affects the co-dependent in all other relationships"

Codependents are the ultimate example of a Persecution Complex description. They always feel victimized, oppressed, and self-sacrificial. Although codependents may feel they give an inordinate amount of responsibility, obligation, and worry for another and mistakenly feel like they are giving, giving, giving, in reality they are actually taking, taking, taking. The only thing a codependent person wants to hear from his unappreciative (of course, this is usually in his imagination) spouse is the words "I feel so guilty about everything you do for me".

How to Win Back Their Attraction!
ATTRACTION IS EVERYTHING! Here's what to do when you think they are no longer attracted to you, However, in reality, codependents do very little for the healthy betterment of their relationships, or the wholeness and completeness of their lives. Whereas they think they are doing for everyone, they are actually doing for themselves. Every time they can feel over-giving and under-appreciated (their main goal), they climb higher up in their Ivory-Tower and feel justified in hugging themselves while they hang from their self-imposed crucifix. Codependents appear to be very poor givers, so wrapped up in their imagined glories and self-sacrifices that they never really, truly give genuine love and care just for the simple reason of giving it and not for the real reason behind why they do give and give. And what is that reason you ask? Codependents give only for two causes and one reason; to cause 'self-pity', and to cause 'manipulation' of those around him, for the reason of being able to embrace, nurture, and love themselves, and to feel safe and secure..

Although there are many, many books out there that attempt to explain the motives of codependent people, I have never found one that actually describes the reason behind what they do to my satisfaction! Sooooo, let me explain my theory (shut up and bear with me here!)... :)

As pack animals we are all somewhat codependent. But when codependency becomes the overriding force in a person's life they begin to do the exact opposite of what they honestly believe their goal is. Where most codependents think they are sacrificing themselves for everyone around them, what they are actually doing is distancing themselves and emotionally withdrawing from those around them, so coccooned they are in themselves and their own feelings of injustice. To contradict a lot of codependent books I am going to go out on a limb here and give my analysis of codependency: A codependent person—although it may appear that they are over-conscious and over-aware of others—in reality are only conscious of their own role in other's lives and not with the actual other person themselves. They only need to pre-occupy themselves with other's emotional well-being and feelings to see what their own status is to that other person, and how they fit in that person's life. Although the experts seem to claim that a codependent person is overly involved in other's moods, feelings, and emotional being, they actually are more astute to another's moods, feelings, and emotions only when it directly relates back to themselves so that they may analyze the role they play in that person's life. Many codependents have an intense need for acceptance and validation of who they are. They can be more selfish and self-involved then fiercely independent people are, as they are so engrossed in the role they play in other people's lives that they become obsessed with others' moods and well-being only as it relates to themselves.

Codependents lack in self-perception and can only identify who they are through that of a second person. They manifest 'who they are' only through another's eyes, thoughts, or views of them...and without another they are unable to find their own identity. Codependents tend to latch onto partners because of this lack of being able to self-identify through themselves.

Thus, codependents become 'emotionally unavailable' or 'uncaring' to others, unless it is for the selfish reason of improving their own role in that person's life. Everything they do they do to pity themselves or to applaud themselves...nothing is done out of voluntary loving or freely given for the mere fact of truly caring for another. NOTHING! Everything that a codependent person does is done to further establish their self-pitying thoughts of 'overdoing' and of being taken advantage of and for granted, "I am so unappreciated around here, they treat me like their slave...", or their self-worshiping thoughts that they are perfect and well-respected for the 'good' or 'right things' that they do unto others. "I am a great person, see how I saved the day!" These thoughts are based on the fact that because they are overly concerned with the role they play in other's lives that they become more acutely aware of how others do or do not acknowledge what they do.

Basically, the codependents motives are all about gaining self-pity or gaining self-respect enough so that they can feel safe and comfortable enough to embrace their own inner soul and give much needed self-love to themselves. Just below the surface of every codependent is a lost and rejected child that doesn't feel that who they are themselves is worthy of love.

A codependent is so caught up in their own little "I am a self-sacrificing hero" fantasy that they have no idea that they have no real identity of their own, and are actually (and ironically) never really fully available to another (although they believe just the opposite). Codependents spend an inordinate amount of time hugging themselves and finding new ways to feel like they are abandoned and unappreciated, or acclaimed and heralded. They spend an elaborate amount of time planning ways to feel more damaged and martyred (so they can heroize themselves), and to do this they must worry more about making everyone but himself happy. They must be self-sacrificial. Although they feel that they are over-giving and over-doing, they actually do very little real emotional loving, or make themselves truly available to the people in their life. (It is hard to be there for somebody in an honest and genuine sense, when you are being bitter and indignant about the fact that you are there for them.) You can never love a codependent person enough, for they will not feel your love, they will only feel all the drummed up sacrifices they have done for others. A codependent person will not hear, "thank you, I appreciate that" but will seek out and concentrate his focus on all the non-acknowledged things that he does do, whereas most non-codependents will hear the "thank you" and not really get to worried over the fact that occasionally someone didn't acknowledge something they did for them. A codependent person very rarely recognizes genuine acts of true love and caring from their spouses, but rather is hypervigilant to their spouses negativities or requests (which the codependent person takes to mean 'more demands' on, and 'belittlement' of, them).

Codependent people have a huge hole in them that needs to be fixed. They find temporary relief via another person's redemption through them, as it allows them to redeem themselves when they see themselves through the other's eyes. This may possibly be the reason why codependents almost always choose mates that have 'problems'. They can find a temporary patch for their own 'hole' by fixing others'.

The simple fact is, the codependent person is an unavailable partner. He becomes this way in three respects:

1. He becomes self-absorbed: It is hard to be really there for someone else when your arms are always around yourself in feelings of grandeur, heroism, self-sacrificial claims, self pity, and indignation.
2. He feeds off his partner's character and subsequently develops none of his own: When one creates in themselves a codependent inner nature they lose much of their own identity, taking on the emotions and feelings of their partner. Although a healthy amount of codependency is good for a relationship, an overly codependent person becomes a 'non-person', and teaches his partner to not recognize him, for 'he' really, truly doesn't exist! This means that, as a codependent, one loses their own identity—and without an "I"dentity you are essentially a nobody, and how can 'nobody' be anywhere, let alone in a relationship and by their wife's side? How can one love 'nobody'?
3. He unknowingly teaches his partner that everything is about 'her': Another thing a codependent person does is to teach their partner to be selfish and self-serving. Since, to a codependent person everything is about the act of doing for the other person (remember, this is his illusion), and that nothing is about them (again, his illusion), they subconsciously condition the other person to come to expect all their needs to be met by the codependent person, in as much as the codependent person, themselves, does focus on meeting all their partner's needs—but carrying resentment about it. They subconsciously train their partner's to become selfish, expectant, and self-gratifying.

On the flipside of that, when the wife is codependent she spends an excessive amount of time feeling like her actions aren't appreciated, that she is unnoticed and unacknowledged, and that she is sacrificing herself for her husband and family and not being appreciated or acknowledged for it in return. When she feels she is not getting the appreciation at home that she feels she deserves, she becomes more vulnerable to an affair. She may mistakenly believe that only another lover will understand her and appreciate her and all that she does. You can spend years trying to make a codependent person feel appreciated and loved. However, it's like filling a bucket with holes in the bottom. Codependents have this empty hole that only they can fill up. Sometimes you may be able to get it a quarter full, or even halfway full, but no matter how much you put in this bucket, it keeps falling right out the bottom.

To sum it up, a codependent person unknowingly pushes their spouse into the arms of another, AND a codependent person, themselves, will willingly rush into the arms of another when they feel lonely, unappreciated, and not respected in their home life.

by Tigress Luv, the Breakup Guru

outtolunch 09-19-2009 07:28 PM

I have said it before, I was the anti-christ of co-dependency. Then my daughter discovered heroin.

When I look back on my own reaction to her addiction, all I can say is hell has no furry like a mother of a heroin addict, consumed with curing her daughter. Finding the cure became my life's passion. I was obsessed with her and addiction.

When I look back on this time in my life, it was all about proving I could control my daughter and thus her addiction. It was very much all about me in a warped way.

I know now, that I could easily slip back into the mom from hell-o on the topic of heroin. It's one day at a time.

URMYEVERYTHING 09-19-2009 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by Lavash (Post 2372274)
Well I am a classic codep. and I can say this article is 1% correct and 99% incorrect.

I do a lot for many and never expect anything in return. I do it out of love. I think even noncodep's can feel unappreicated when doing for others never to be acknowledged.

I agree, however, codependency isn't all about giving and getting something in return... it's also about the need to always please others and neglecting yourself. Think back to your other posts when you first came here and how your BF caused certain reactions in you.

Sure a non codie would feel unappreciated if doing things for others but a non codie wouldn't say, "I did all of these things for you and this is how you treat me in return", etc. (Just an example). A non codie would simply take the hit, detach and keep truckin.

Abundance 09-19-2009 08:10 PM

ATTRACTION IS EVERYTHING! Here's what to do when you think they are no longer attracted to you, However, in reality, codependents do very little for the healthy betterment of their relationships, or the wholeness and completeness of their lives. Whereas they think they are doing for everyone, they are actually doing for themselves. Every time they can feel over-giving and under-appreciated (their main goal), they climb higher up in their Ivory-Tower and feel justified in hugging themselves while they hang from their self-imposed crucifix. Codependents appear to be very poor givers, so wrapped up in their imagined glories and self-sacrifices that they never really, truly give genuine love and care just for the simple reason of giving it and not for the real reason behind why they do give and give. And what is that reason you ask? Codependents give only for two causes and one reason; to cause 'self-pity', and to cause 'manipulation' of those around him, for the reason of being able to embrace, nurture, and love themselves, and to feel safe and secure..

*This was me to a TEE with my XAH. It totally grossed me out as soon as I found myself in that vacuum. After splitting up - and learning THAT was a form of Co-dependency - I made a vow to NEVER do something for someone that they can do themselves. I also felt that "giving" would be a lead back into co-dependency and I would get that resentment - and I stopped "giving". I feel that in my last "R" - I didn't give all that much. People will tell me that I did - but really I was definitely getting more out of it than I was giving. I believe that - and it was totally me having a defense mechanism because of my fear of abandonment.

Also, my x's 'love language' was gifts... that didn't work so well with me. Something I hope to get better with... and have more trust in myself to 'give materially' without fearing a codie relapse or even having it lead to one.

I also made a vow not to be a "nagger"... it takes way too much energy... it's not worth it.



As pack animals we are all somewhat codependent. But when codependency becomes the overriding force in a person's life they begin to do the exact opposite of what they honestly believe their goal is. Where most codependents think they are sacrificing themselves for everyone around them, what they are actually doing is distancing themselves and emotionally withdrawing from those around them, so coccooned they are in themselves and their own feelings of injustice. To contradict a lot of codependent books I am going to go out on a limb here and give my analysis of codependency: A codependent person—although it may appear that they are over-conscious and over-aware of others—in reality are only conscious of their own role in other's lives and not with the actual other person themselves. They only need to pre-occupy themselves with other's emotional well-being and feelings to see what their own status is to that other person, and how they fit in that person's life. Although the experts seem to claim that a codependent person is overly involved in other's moods, feelings, and emotional being, they actually are more astute to another's moods, feelings, and emotions only when it directly relates back to themselves so that they may analyze the role they play in that person's life. Many codependents have an intense need for acceptance and validation of who they are. They can be more selfish and self-involved then fiercely independent people are, as they are so engrossed in the role they play in other people's lives that they become obsessed with others' moods and well-being only as it relates to themselves.

I don't buy this guy's theory - but I do go with the experts. I can read people some times better than I WANT to read myself. I don't need validation of who I am, but I want people to like me. I can very easily be a "chameleon". I agree with codies being selfish. When my xabf would get caught lying about something, it was no longer about him, it was ALL about me. IMO - that is what brought me to my Co-dependent bottom.... because it did become "all about me!" When I saw my x going into a downward spiral or that dark place - depression- I would do self- talk to remind me not to take it personally - that it has nothing to do with me. I would try to remain grounded and strong in self, but it was very difficult. I was like a toy being wound up and wound up and wound up and then I would just flipping explode. I would then become totally obsessed with his moods and then would obsess over MY reaction to it all. Oh heck yeah it would become all about me!!!! Now, it's more than ever about me!


Codependents lack in self-perception and can only identify who they are through that of a second person. They manifest 'who they are' only through another's eyes, thoughts, or views of them...and without another they are unable to find their own identity. Codependents tend to latch onto partners because of this lack of being able to self-identify through themselves.

Oh... there were times that I would relish in observing my x... seeing the world .. having a view .. through his eyes. I knew that whenever I was doing that I was setting myself up big time. I'd try to stop myself, but he was so alluring. I could literally sit and watch him... he totally captivated me. However, it wasn't for the view of my identity - it was viewing "life" - not myself. I could literally "feel" him. When I was perceiving inauthenticity it would destroy me because I had put so much of myself into him... so much stock. In the end, I was being pulled in to believe his lies. IDK... that is the crazy making result. It's way too hard to explain. It's stressing my shoulders to even attempt it.


Thus, codependents become 'emotionally unavailable' or 'uncaring' to others, unless it is for the selfish reason of improving their own role in that person's life. Everything they do they do to pity themselves or to applaud themselves...nothing is done out of voluntary loving or freely given for the mere fact of truly caring for another. NOTHING! Everything that a codependent person does is done to further establish their self-pitying thoughts of 'overdoing' and of being taken advantage of and for granted, "I am so unappreciated around here, they treat me like their slave...", or their self-worshiping thoughts that they are perfect and well-respected for the 'good' or 'right things' that they do unto others. "I am a great person, see how I saved the day!" These thoughts are based on the fact that because they are overly concerned with the role they play in other's lives that they become more acutely aware of how others do or do not acknowledge what they do.


I can see this being a part of it; however, I truly do not relate to the above, personally.


Basically, the codependents motives are all about gaining self-pity or gaining self-respect enough so that they can feel safe and comfortable enough to embrace their own inner soul and give much needed self-love to themselves. Just below the surface of every codependent is a lost and rejected child that doesn't feel that who they are themselves is worthy of love.

OUCH... that part is probably really true, at least for me. I grew up giving more love to others than to myself. If I actually thought of me instead of someone else - the guilt was immense. I was very attractive, especially in high school... and I was popular... had lots of friends in many cliques - but was a total chameleon - didn't really believe what everyone else saw. I saw a very plain Jane. My x, he got me to see that I wasn't. In the beginning, he brought out this goddess in me... allowed me to embrace my inner child.... but also gave me the room to embrace myself in a different way. i.e. - until him I never wore skirts above my knee... He also introduced me to many "firsts" - for someone I didn't trust - there were some areas that I gave him my full and complete trust!

As for the rest..... I can't totally relate........ YET. I could definitely see it getting to that point. Unless I am or have been in denial......


In regards to addiction and co-dependency - I think that codies just don't find themselves in addict situations. Just like I think people who end up with addicts aren't necessarily true codies.... but typical reactions of someone / anyone would give if not ever being in this situation before. Now, if this becoming a reoccurring theme - (like - more than once) ... that is when to address codependency.

Abundance 09-19-2009 08:11 PM


Originally Posted by URMYEVERYTHING (Post 2372279)
I agree, however, codependency isn't all about giving and getting something in return... it's also about the need to always please others and neglecting yourself. Think back to your other posts when you first came here and how your BF caused certain reactions in you.

Sure a non codie would feel unappreciated if doing things for others but a non codie wouldn't say, "I did all of these things for you and this is how you treat me in return", etc. (Just an example). A non codie would simply take the hit, detach and keep truckin.

Meaning..... get the hell out of dodge!!!!!!!! Exactly!!!

The fact that I didn't ... over and over again ..... told me I had some personal work to explore!

teke 09-19-2009 08:19 PM

i think i became kind of a caretaker at the age of 7, helping my mom with 6 younger siblings after my father passed. at that young age, i don't believe that it was for any selfish reasons and looking back, i don't know what i could have been expecting in return. so in part, i guess i have to disagree. i believe that my actions stem from really wanting to help.

i agree that i did put myself aside for others but i thought that was the way it was suppose to be. when i found myself in recovery is when i found about co dependancy and for me thats when i found out that my life was suppose to be about me first instead of others. i thought i was happiest only when i saw others happy. if this was not co dependancy then i just don't understand the meaning of the word and thats ok.

i think i'm rambling now so its time to re read all of this. who knows maybe i'm not making much sense right now but thats ok too

Chino 09-19-2009 08:45 PM


Originally Posted by teke (Post 2372319)
i agree that i did put myself aside for others but i thought that was the way it was suppose to be.

My entire culture is based on that. If individuals didn't put the tribe first, the tribe fell apart.

Abundance 09-19-2009 08:46 PM


I agree that i did put myself aside for others but i thought that was the way it was suppose to be.
Teke- yeah I know. From a very young age, I was always applauded and given many accolades when I thought of others more than myself. If someone was thinking of themselves they were considered selfish.

I grew up being moulded into being a codie.... no doubt. I rear my children to think about themselves - to honor themselves- to give power to their self worth and to be authentic to others, but most importantly to live in truth themselves. My mom cringes that I teach that. She thinks that is what is wrong in this world... everyone is so bloody selfish and only thinking of themselves.

Speaking of taking a hard look at codependency - imo - where are the codependent recovery rehabs?????? Especially when trying to "fire" someone... detox someone ..... criminey!


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