kj3880

Don't read this if you are depressed, because it's kind of a bummer post.

I'm so sick of everyone in my network. Being a double winner (RA and codie) bites right now. It presents a really "special" dilemma. The codie part of me, I think, would really benefit from having some normal non-addict friends, but I'm told I need to be around other women RAs for my addiction recovery.

The problem is that most addicts, especially the women around my area, are very sick. They tend to be selfish, needy, and lean on me for support.
I was a really functional addict. Thanks to God, I had a really high bottom, relatively. I never did the stuff most addicts do. I had a prescription addiction.

It wasn't good times, by any means, but it also wasn't prostitution and homelessness. Still, it's all the same disease. I guess I'm just really lucky that I didnt' get hooked on anything until I was in my 40's with enough life skills to see where it was going in a few months and reach for help.

But I'm really getting burned on other addicts in NA. The women are only interested in talking to me when it's all about them. When I have some issues in my life to discuss, they seem to change the subject quickly and shut it down. I keep trying to listen to myself objectively in these relationships to see if maybe I'm just deluded and selfish, but I don't think I am.

I'm really seriously considering some time away from the program, maybe plugging into Alanon for a while.

I know I have to "give recovery back or I won't keep it" but it feels like a one-way street at this time. For instance, the other day I was really in crisis mode with some things that were going on. I called every single one of the fifteen women in my network, most of whom call me at least twice a week with a crisis of the day question. Not one of these women had time to call me back or even remembered to do so that day. Only one called me the next day, and she only had about five minutes to let me talk. I can't count the hours I've sympathized and listened to her moan about her break-ups and relapses.

I posted this in the NA forum awhile ago but nobody seemed to identify with it.

Love,
KJ

catlovermi

For me, part of codie recovery was learning to give myself permissions. Codies tend to live in prisons of their own making.

The other part was to learn that things are rarely black and white.

The purpose of having recovering people around you is to keep you grounded in recovery. But this doesn't mean you can't ALSO have normie friends, so long as you keep your toe sufficiently in recovery waters.

There are many advantages to normie friends whose lives are drama-free and who have healthy coping mechanisms and outlooks.

Perhaps it's time to give yourself permission to blend the two types of people in your life, and mix the blend as needed, to get you more options for socializing.

Sending encouragement,

CLMI

Ann

I think Al-Anon would help you deal with issues separate from your addiction issues. It doesn't have to replace all your regular meetings, but maybe a few of each might help.

Recovery has taught me to think about friendships, and where there isn't as much give as take, it is sometimes time to move on. Today I choose friends who share my interests, values and are fun to be with. Some of them are in recovery and some are "normies" who live pretty wholesome lives.

You have many choices too, and changing friends is a good option when the friends you have are dragging you down...regardless of whether they are in program or not.

Hugs

teke

hey kj, i can relate to what you are feeling and i do have those kinds of friends, at times it has been painful for me to feel the way you do right now but i guess i have to realize that everyone in my life isn't gonna be the way i need them to be. now, in time of crisis, i spend a lot of time talking to my hp, you guys and friends who are available to be there for me.

as far as me giving back, i try to do it not expecting anything in return. people at times have a tendency to disappoint. i vote for finding different kinds of friends too.

ItsmeAlice

I am so sorry you are not getting the support that you need from your network.

I don't think recovery programs would have any kind of success without addicts supporting other addicts. I think there is a disconnect in the support system around you if you are giving but not receiving support, although I agree that expectations of support are pointless, as we have to seek it out for ourselves not assume it will be provided.

From reading your post though, it actually sounds more like a codependency problem. Most of my relationships up to this point, XABF included, have seemed very one-sided. I often feel dismissed when I try to open up and share and sometimes feel used when I am later sought out by family or friends to be a shoulder to cry on. I've come to discovery this has much more to do with my putting my feelings aside over and over and not letting my needs be known. This leads to my being the rock in my relationships, the one who never needs an emotional propping up.

I will continue to grow and progress in my recovery as I learn to seek out the relationships in my life that are a healthy balance of give and take.

Alice

gowest

kj I don't know what kind of alanon meetings they hold in your area.

I go to a bunch of "step based" meetings. I would think that these in particular would help bridge the gap between going to NA and generic alanon meetings.

If you can find a good step meeting where people stay on topic it can be really a sustaining experience and much less of the b$tch and moan experience which it seems that you don't need at the moment, whatever the group.

I had to abandon one home group alaonon meeting because of some of the crazy people in it. I substituted the step meeting. It was a godsend.

For the record, I didn't think your post was depressing either.

kj3880

Thanks for all the support. I really need it right now.

Love,
KJ

IPT

hmmm, I am not a RA, maybe a R-codie, but it sounds to me like you need to have some healthy people around you "not in the system". Virtually every one of my friends are not related to addiction or co-dependency in anyway. I know they will listen to me when I have a crisis for sure. Heck, my friends listened to me all the time when I was in the midst of this mess and there was plenty of “crisis”. Then after I babbled enough I would step back and say "so what's going on in your world" and listen to them. That is the way it is supposed to work I think .

I am sure it is hard to keep recovery going, and you should keep your toes in that water as has been suggested. However, I see no reason why also including and growing a social network of "regular" folk would be anything but good to compliment the other. You said you used to frequent the gym. Take a class or something and maybe get some coffee with some of the women afterwards. No need to bring up the whole recovery thing unless you choose to. If the "crisis" wasn't addiction or co-dependency related odds are they have experienced similar or at least could relate to it. Heck just normal shoot the breeze conversation about a vacation, work non-sense, or the kids is nice too. Once the relationship is established you should be good to go.

I found it helpful that none of my friends deal with this (well there is one RA that I just got in touch with from high school but it's been 15 years since I had spoken to him). It helps remind me of what so called "normal" is. I also find SR a Godsend...but the benefit of it is you there are so many ways to participate. You can just read, reach out, listen, or give advice and support. If you don’t feel like having people lean on you, you don’t have too. Plus there always seems to be someone here who at that moment will be willing to lend an ear and offer some words. Guess that is the beauty of such a large audience.

It must hurt to feel like you give and give (listen to them) and not get that in return. It's funny, on SR I often find that the folk here seem very black and white about recovery and what is appropriate and not appropriate in terms of our expectations and how relationships should be conducted. I appreciate that, and it has helped me find my way many times in the context of my situation...however, I find a lot of it just seems (I don't know how to word this)..too hard lined and cold to carry over into every relationship. It is great with an addict, or someone with codie issues, but maybe (IMO) not always dead on for dealing with people in the context of a healthy relationship.

Heck, I have healthy friends who would listen to me for a while and then tell me "okay, lets talk about me now". Healthy or not, humans in general need support and an ear once in a while. A RA will probably have high needs and the selfishness you describe, and a Recovering Codie may be trying to keep their boundaries intact and not meddle with someone else’s issues, keeping the focus on themselves....a person out of this arena will naturally just go with the ebb and flow of give and take regarding the needs of an interpersonal relationship and not give any of it a second thought!

Just my two cents...hope I don't ruffle feathers or get anyone upset with this post.

Callie

AWW KJ - It does sound like you need a breath of 'fresh air'. Your sponsor may say that you need to surround yourself with RA's, but it sounds like you're becoming more codie by doing so. You need to do what's best for YOU and listen to YOUR inner voice. To me it is screaming that you need more than you're getting from these women. Just because you're a RA doesn't mean that you have to become more codie to STAY a RA. JMHO though.

I know what you mean about isolation. I experience that myself ALOT because of RAH. Like nobody in the normal world really understands. Life isn't just about drugs/no drugs or recovery or meetings alone when dealing with addiction. I don't think that just because you're a RA that you should only hang with RA's. I know with my H, it's GOOD that he's around non RA's also because that keeps him seeing just how ABNORMAL drugs/addiction are in most of the population. JMHO again...

I also think just because you are an RA doesn't mean that you should surround yourself predominantly by RA's. In my round about way of getting to the point....get out there and make new friends. You don't sound happy and your sitch sounds a bit toxic and one sided with the friends that you're contacting for support.

BBD

Hi kj, Its my son in my life thats the addictive person but I can tell you something....Even in the world I live in, its is full of women that do nothing but talk about themselves.....everyone seems to have issues and dramas daily and I'm starting to feel as you do... and time away from these types of people is a healthy thing. I have one really great friend that I can share with and I thank God for her..It sounds like you do need to find a new meeting place, new friends for right now~~~and some well-deserved serenity. Best of luck hon, Bonnie

Seren

(((kj))) I say go find some "normie" friends and go to a move!

Hugs, HG

Callie

Wow Cynical summed up everything with a graph! Looks like you're in the 3rd graph KJ. Thanks CO.

greeteachday

I really like the visual, CO and I certainly can see it in action in my life and my daughter's.

My daughter was very active in NA, went to some Naranon too because she wanted to fix her "fixer" lol. She found herself at the place you describe and found some help in reaching out beyond her normal groups to find some folks with longer recovery. As she grew in recovery and expanded her horizons to include friendships outside of NA, she experienced a lot of doom and gloom lectures, etc. that she should only stick with program people. It eventually got to the point where it was making her resentful and she found other alternatives to work her program, including the anon side. For her, it's been working great.

From what I "see" you surround yourself with support and know your own mind. Trust yourself KJ and do what is best for you.

Inquisitive7

I'm a firm believer in calling people on their sh*t, but in a nice way. I think you should tell these women exactly what you wrote in your original post - that you've cared enough about them but when it came time for you, they weren't there. Tell them how it made you feel - discounted, depreciated, etc. Give them a chance to correct the situation. If it doesn't get better, I'd move away from them and find another group. Life is too short to spend constantly around needy and selfish people - unless, of course, you are a therapist, but then you get paid for it. It is also not good for them if you demonstrating a one-sided relationship - they need to learn to have a healthy balance of give-and-take.

I am a codie, but not usually of those with substance abuse issues. But I've learned my lesson over and over...it's a hard one to learn, especially for women. I give people a chance, but once they demonstrate to me that can't or won't change, I will either distance a lot or end the friendship/relationship.

That's my two cents...

RobbyRobot

Hi KJ,

You know, the same thing has happened to us all, i am thinking. In fact, the more successful of a good life the talker enjoys, the more difficult for the listeners to respond in a truly helping way if their own lifes are less "enjoyable" by comparison.

People being people brings to mind the famous saying, and we've all heard it from somewhere; "i cried because i had no shoes until i saw a man who had no feet."

Like a poor person freely giving money to a rich person just feels wrong, and we all instantly recognise the wrongness. The poor person is giving up so much, and the rich person is receiving almost nothing. Interesting that the perceived fault would be with the rich person because, and rightly so, their life is so abundant in comparison. Obviously the rich giving to the poor is just natural and proper.

Same kind of thing happens in friendships and relationships when one person is the "helper" and the other(s) are "helpees" and when the help has to flow the other way, things usually don't work so well for anybody really.

I have had hard times in my ESH that horribly brought me to my knees, me hoping help would come my way, me feeling like the folks I was then helping could have done alot more to respond, to stand with me, to be there for me. Hmmm.

Well, I was often left hanging in the wind, so to speak, with my "helpee friends" still asking for me to help them!

So I've learned not to expect deep help from others that already expect ongoing help from me. This rule of thumb has served me well for many years now, and although I'm pleasantly surprised when some one of my "helpees" actually sneaks up on me and deep helps, that would be unusual.

Nothing wrong with all that, its the way things should be, I'm sure. So I've learned to request complex help from other sources, other persons, other situations. I seek out help from more established sources. It takes more effort, and is more humbling as well, and that is as it should be of course.

Helping others is a great joy that creates gifts that keep on giving back day after day, so its always better to give than receive, and we all kinda know this to be true.

Q: But who helps the helper? A: Other helpers, of course. Worth thinking about, yes?

Just some food for thought, KJ. And, I'm not saying you're crying about not having "shoes", not for a minute, not at all. I find you to be a positive, loving person. I can easily appreciate why you very much enjoy helping others, and how they would eagerly request your personal help.

I'm just saying please don't underestimate what you got going for you, KJ. You may be surprised to discover you're much better off than you are maybe thinking. Perhaps it's time to move a bit up the ladder of living a successful recovery lifestyle, and receive some more of those well earned "promises of the good life" we all work so hard to have.

Having said all that, I'm sorry you're feeling sad just now. I hope things feel better today.

Cheers!

RobbyRobot

lexington

Hi, I've never been in your situation but the relationships you're describing here sound unhealthy and they clearly need to change. Remember that RA relationship are supposed to be promoting your healing, as well as the healing of the other RAs. Therefore you should be relating to each other in a way that strengthens all of you, and encourages all of you to carry on with your recovery program.

I agree with the poster who said you need to associate with normal, healthy people as well as other RA's. It's also reasonable to expect your fellow recoverees to set healthier standards for the way they deal with one another now, since healthy relationships presumably help prevent RA's from relapsing.

It sounds like you may need to set some boundaries with these ladies. In all likelihood, you have simply across to them as someone who is more willing to share her time, or who has more stability and can 'take it' better than them, whereas your post makes it clear that you are feeling drained and put upon. Whenever I've felt like the emotional balance was tipping in my relationships, I have always made a point of making my needs the centre of the next conversation. You may find that you actually have to demand that they listen to you, in no uncertain terms ("I need to say this right now because I'm feeling disillusioned/depressed/on the edge" or "I feel like no one's listening to me.") You may find that some people become way more supportive once it's clear to them that you need their help too. You may also find that some of them really are as selfish as you assumed, that they deny you their support even when you've emphasized how important it is to you. Either way, you'll have a better idea of whose phone calls to return in the future!

CatsPajamas

I am not an A, but definitely a codie and have been a happy member of Al Anon for a long time. I dated a guy who had 20+ yrs in NA, and I learned a lot about their rooms and their programs. It seems to me that some people in recovery choose to be around other people in recovery and no one else. Others seem to think the goal of recovery is to learn how to be a productive member of society, which means being able to be comfortable around people whether or not they are in recovery.

For me, I've learned to choose my friends with a different picker than I had before. I had to let go of some old friendships because they were toxic for me. I have learned to distance myself from new friends if they have too much drama and I feel like I should jump in and fix something. I've also learned that some meetings in my area are healthier for me than others, and sometimes it changes depending on where I am in my recovery.

KJ, I hope you're able to find an answer that works for you and that you can find some good solid friends to spend time with.

kj3880

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

I shared about how I was feeling with my sponsor. She was one of the main people that I was disappointed with. In the past, our relationship was one of her being a mentor to me and helping me with my recovery, as it should be. But she recently went through a bunch of things, and isn't in a position to spend much time with me. I'd adjusted to that, but when I found out that she was throwing a shower for a mutual friend, and had invited over 60 women, and that I wasn't one of the women, I was crushed. I finally told her that, and she said it was a "mistake." I asked the woman who's having the baby shower, and she said that my name had been on the list to be invited, which is what I'd thought. So it seems fishy to me. I felt so rejected. Like, worst case, if my sponsor, who knows me at the deepest level, doesn't like me enought to include me even when I was on the list to come, or best case, if she is able to forget about me that easily, when I've been her only sponsee for some time, I must be a big loser, socially. You know?

I'm sure I'm making a big deal out of nothing. But it still hurts.

Love,
KJ

pinpoint

i was a prescription drug fiend for two and a half years. i used to think that i didn't have a problem until i saw what i was doing to get my dope. It wasn't prostitution and it wasn't assault(though i thought about pushing elderly relatives over so they could get opiates) but it was manipulating,destructive, and demoralizing. My first two meetings were attended by nothing but meth and crack addicts. Nothing i could relate to, i thought. until i thought about the transformation of the self from the abyss of addiction. then it hit. when members need a shoulder to cry on-give it to 'em. eventually you'll feel like you aren't being taken advantage of. eventually, you'll give the member both shoulders to cry on. Keep it up!

URMYEVERYTHING

Sounds like you got lots of support here KJ.

I can't beat Cynical's break down. LOL.

I think you should hang this up somewhere and look at it when those "in crisis women" call you. Sometimes we get so bogged down helping others and giving to others we start to lose ourselves.

I agree... maybe going to AlAnon may be a good idea.

I agree with IPT, take a class, meet other healthy people that are non-addicts who understand your position and respect that.

You will survive. You will prevail. Hang in there.