Isolating...sick of everyone.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Hi KJ. I think you are going thru some hard times right now. You have a lot going on and none of it is easy stuff. Don't forget that this too shall pass. Life is like the ocean. It comes in waves. Just ride it out and soon you'll be resting on the beach again.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I'm going to be the voice of dissension here.
The first thing that came to my mind in reading through your first post is how is your conscious contact with your higher power?
I've made just about every mistake possible throughout my years in recovery, so here's my two cents, okay?
Early in my recovery, I put people on pedestals, including past sponsors. The problem wtih that is that they were human, and eventually those people fell off their pedestals. Then I ended up with some pretty good simmering resentments.
For me, I must place my main reliance on my higher power whom I chose to call God, not on other people.
There have been times in my recovery where I dialed every number I had, and either no one was home, was on the way out the door, or was flat out busy.
It's true, the old saying that sometimes the only thing between me and that first drink/drug is God. Those were the times I would often cry, get on my knees, and ask God for help.
I also have to be really really careful about separating myself from others in recovery where I start labeling others as really sick, definitely sicker than me, and before I know it, that old ego is starting to puff up in my head, and I find a certain twisted smugness in feeling slightly (if not more) superior to them.
I clearly remember one day I copped a resentment against someone in the program, have no idea what it was over, but after rolling it around in my head, I had a resentment against the whole damned 12 step group by that evening.
I made up my mind I was NOT going to go to the meeting that night, then they'd all know they did something wrong, and show up at my door to find out why I wasn't at the meeting!
No one showed up at my door. What a kick in my big fat ego that was.
Today I am no better than the addict who has walked into a meeting for the first time, strung out, hurting inside, feeling like a big fat steaming pile of crap.
Today, the concept of giving it away, for me, is to give it away with no strings attached. When I place expectations on others (they'll be there for me when I'm struggling too), and they fall short of my expectations, I'm headed for a very bad place in my head, heart, and soul.
I also can't give away what I don't have.
The first thing that came to my mind in reading through your first post is how is your conscious contact with your higher power?
I've made just about every mistake possible throughout my years in recovery, so here's my two cents, okay?
Early in my recovery, I put people on pedestals, including past sponsors. The problem wtih that is that they were human, and eventually those people fell off their pedestals. Then I ended up with some pretty good simmering resentments.
For me, I must place my main reliance on my higher power whom I chose to call God, not on other people.
There have been times in my recovery where I dialed every number I had, and either no one was home, was on the way out the door, or was flat out busy.
It's true, the old saying that sometimes the only thing between me and that first drink/drug is God. Those were the times I would often cry, get on my knees, and ask God for help.
I also have to be really really careful about separating myself from others in recovery where I start labeling others as really sick, definitely sicker than me, and before I know it, that old ego is starting to puff up in my head, and I find a certain twisted smugness in feeling slightly (if not more) superior to them.
I clearly remember one day I copped a resentment against someone in the program, have no idea what it was over, but after rolling it around in my head, I had a resentment against the whole damned 12 step group by that evening.
I made up my mind I was NOT going to go to the meeting that night, then they'd all know they did something wrong, and show up at my door to find out why I wasn't at the meeting!
No one showed up at my door. What a kick in my big fat ego that was.
Today I am no better than the addict who has walked into a meeting for the first time, strung out, hurting inside, feeling like a big fat steaming pile of crap.
Today, the concept of giving it away, for me, is to give it away with no strings attached. When I place expectations on others (they'll be there for me when I'm struggling too), and they fall short of my expectations, I'm headed for a very bad place in my head, heart, and soul.
I also can't give away what I don't have.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: lancaster, PA
Posts: 852
Hi Kj, I don't know how much use I can be to you, since I'm not a part of group-- other than SR... however, you have been such a great help to me, so I thought I'd write a parallel (only thing I can think of)- from a slightly different angle.
My mom called me today, (she had a heart attack 2 months ago and the heart is fine) but she is on meds for it. She has a very very bad back, and was in excruciating pain today. unfortunately the docs won't let her take alieve or motrin(because of her current heart meds.)... any how, she was devistated, crying, and telling me she tried calling my brother, me (i didn't pick up the first ten times she called), my older kids, ..... no one answered. My father was asleep (prob tired from drinking his beer)....... her sister..... her niece..... no one picked up.
My mother probably taught me my codie-ways, but nonetheless, she is ALWAYS there for EVERYONE at the drop of a dime. When it comes to 'getting' anything, she is left horribly sad and dissapointed, at times disgusted. Regardless if my mom 'sets herself' up for this........... (because truely she does so much -- no one will EVER respond to her in the way she responds to others). This just leads to sooooo many emotional wounds, and I felt really, really, bad.
Sometimes I think codies are 'natural givers' selfless people who try to love with all they got, at the expense of themselves... And regardless of the should be's or could be's, the bottom line is perhaps ONCE in a while, it would be nice if someone gave to them/us.
I think that although YOU have to give with no strings attached, I believe with everything in my heart, that YOU SHOULD DEFINATELY aknowladge how HURT you feel, that others are not there for you --- the way you are for them.
I know you feel angry, but under that, you are probably sad, and you wouldn't be mad if these other people 'cared' about YOU, the way YOU care about THEM.
I send you lots of cyber hugs---- and I will keep you in my heart with my mommy tonight, that god hugs you both extra tight, and sends you some peace of mind.
Lots' of love,
Cessy.
I hope that made sense.
My mom called me today, (she had a heart attack 2 months ago and the heart is fine) but she is on meds for it. She has a very very bad back, and was in excruciating pain today. unfortunately the docs won't let her take alieve or motrin(because of her current heart meds.)... any how, she was devistated, crying, and telling me she tried calling my brother, me (i didn't pick up the first ten times she called), my older kids, ..... no one answered. My father was asleep (prob tired from drinking his beer)....... her sister..... her niece..... no one picked up.
My mother probably taught me my codie-ways, but nonetheless, she is ALWAYS there for EVERYONE at the drop of a dime. When it comes to 'getting' anything, she is left horribly sad and dissapointed, at times disgusted. Regardless if my mom 'sets herself' up for this........... (because truely she does so much -- no one will EVER respond to her in the way she responds to others). This just leads to sooooo many emotional wounds, and I felt really, really, bad.
Sometimes I think codies are 'natural givers' selfless people who try to love with all they got, at the expense of themselves... And regardless of the should be's or could be's, the bottom line is perhaps ONCE in a while, it would be nice if someone gave to them/us.
I think that although YOU have to give with no strings attached, I believe with everything in my heart, that YOU SHOULD DEFINATELY aknowladge how HURT you feel, that others are not there for you --- the way you are for them.
I know you feel angry, but under that, you are probably sad, and you wouldn't be mad if these other people 'cared' about YOU, the way YOU care about THEM.
I send you lots of cyber hugs---- and I will keep you in my heart with my mommy tonight, that god hugs you both extra tight, and sends you some peace of mind.
Lots' of love,
Cessy.
I hope that made sense.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: South Africa
Posts: 34
Hi there,
When I read this, my thoughts scanned to my situation when my partner said that "he wants to have a normal day" and not go to his NA meeting.
I'm really seriously considering some time away from the program, maybe plugging into Alanon for a while.
Also I think you need to put boundries with the women at you NA meetings. Dont open yourself to this even though your intentions are good. How about getting a sponsor? Do you have one?? This will give you the opportunity to have your space and time to deal with whats going on in your life.
Your space needs to be held and a sponsor will be there for you!!
When I read this, my thoughts scanned to my situation when my partner said that "he wants to have a normal day" and not go to his NA meeting.
I'm really seriously considering some time away from the program, maybe plugging into Alanon for a while.
Also I think you need to put boundries with the women at you NA meetings. Dont open yourself to this even though your intentions are good. How about getting a sponsor? Do you have one?? This will give you the opportunity to have your space and time to deal with whats going on in your life.
Your space needs to be held and a sponsor will be there for you!!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Wherever I turn my attention
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by kj3880 
Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
I shared about how I was feeling with my sponsor. She was one of the main people that I was disappointed with. In the past, our relationship was one of her being a mentor to me and helping me with my recovery, as it should be. But she recently went through a bunch of things, and isn't in a position to spend much time with me. I'd adjusted to that, but when I found out that she was throwing a shower for a mutual friend, and had invited over 60 women, and that I wasn't one of the women, I was crushed. I finally told her that, and she said it was a "mistake." I asked the woman who's having the baby shower, and she said that my name had been on the list to be invited, which is what I'd thought. So it seems fishy to me. I felt so rejected. Like, worst case, if my sponsor, who knows me at the deepest level, doesn't like me enought to include me even when I was on the list to come, or best case, if she is able to forget about me that easily, when I've been her only sponsee for some time, I must be a big loser, socially. You know?
I'm sure I'm making a big deal out of nothing. But it still hurts.
Love,
KJ
I shared about how I was feeling with my sponsor. She was one of the main people that I was disappointed with. In the past, our relationship was one of her being a mentor to me and helping me with my recovery, as it should be. But she recently went through a bunch of things, and isn't in a position to spend much time with me. I'd adjusted to that, but when I found out that she was throwing a shower for a mutual friend, and had invited over 60 women, and that I wasn't one of the women, I was crushed. I finally told her that, and she said it was a "mistake." I asked the woman who's having the baby shower, and she said that my name had been on the list to be invited, which is what I'd thought. So it seems fishy to me. I felt so rejected. Like, worst case, if my sponsor, who knows me at the deepest level, doesn't like me enought to include me even when I was on the list to come, or best case, if she is able to forget about me that easily, when I've been her only sponsee for some time, I must be a big loser, socially. You know?
I'm sure I'm making a big deal out of nothing. But it still hurts.
Love,
KJ
The more important part of your post is this: "I shared about how I was feeling with my sponsor."
I always think it is important to share upsets with ones friends. If they respond or don't respond isn't as important as the fact that you shared and didn't keep it bottled (no pun intended - haha) all up inside.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
My daughter is going through a similar problem right now. She has a good group here at home but she is also down at college for most of the week. She got herself a sponsor down at school but is having a hard time relating to the woman. (Another program member here gave Megan the name and number for this person.) The sponsor is telling Megan that she should quit her job here and get a job down at school and not see me and her dad so much. She is also telling Megan that she will relapse if she does not go to more meetings, meaning every night. Megan, being the good codie that she is, is afraid to tell this woman that she is wrong, that things are working just fine for her. Although I try not to give her advice I have told her that she needs to do what works for her. I believe in a balance in life between work, friends, meetings, etc. I only attend one meeting a week although I work recovery everyday. I think that if you are told enough times what others think is right for you and you are a codie, you begin to doubt yourself. Have faith in what is right for you. You can always change your mind later. Also we have double winners at our home Ala-non group and I welcome their wisdom. Hugs, Marle
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
To go off on a tangent KJ - I woke up this morning thinking about your post. If you're a lawyer, you can surround yourself with lawyers to make you a BETTER lawyer by learning. Lawyers DO associate and learn from eachother, but they can still function with 'non' lawyers. Lawyers have ALOT in common with eachother. Doesn't matter whether it's a tax lawyer, a criminal lawyer, divorce lawyer etc. BUT they can and do still have OUTSIDE friends OTHER than lawyers. Hope this makes sense???
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
Marle, that experience is very similar to what I went through my first six months in recovery. When I first came to NA, I was about as self-aware as an amoeba. I doubted everything I thought and knew about myself. With my broken picker, I chose a sponsor who validated my self-worthlessness. Water seeks its' own level. She was horrible to me.
I have a wonderful decades-long career that I love, and only have 5 years until retirement. I make close to 100K a year there, and I never even finished college, so quitting isn't really an option. I wouldn't make that kind of money anywhere else, especially in this economy. In that way, I'm very fortunate. I also have two children, one in college, that I support alone. So it's not like there is time or room for me to reinvent my work-life around my recovery.
I needed to make recovery a priority in an already-busy and thriving life. That's very different from the way most people come to recovery, jobless, homeless, with lots of time to fill. But my old sponsor was unable to deal with that. She wanted me to work it the way she had. She had come to recovery at 24, childless, living with mom, unemployed. She could go to meetings all day. She wanted me to do the same. She urged me to take a leave of absence, and she as much as told me that I would relapse if I didn't follow her advice.
Instead of encouraging me to do as much as I can, she criticized my efforts as "not enough." She resented my nice car, even though I used it to give her rides, and my steady income, even though I often bought her meals when we went out after meetings. She even resented my government job, even though I wrote her a resume and recommended her for a position she applied for. She didn't get the job because she didn't take my advice of keeping her addiction private at the interview but she maintained that she is "living a more authentic life" than I am because I don't talk about my disease at work. At one point in that relationship, she was crying about a breakup with her long-time bf, so I tried to get her to talk about her feelings with me. She told me that was impossible, since I wasn't yet "emotionally mature enough to talk to, because I hadn't worked the steps." It left me feeling more like a piece of cr@p then ever.
Finally, I broke ties with her, but reading your post about Megan was a reminder of how hard it was to find a place for myself in the fellowship when I came in. I guess I never really did find a place in NA, to be honest.
I really appreciate those of you who read the whole thread and offered intelligent and insightful help. Thanks so much, I need that right now.
I'm honestly struggling with finding a place in recovery as a functional addict. I don't want to separate myself out from others in recovery. I want to belong but I don't seem to fit anywhere. It's junior high all over again at NA. I was never cool enough. I was never a prostitute, and almost all the women in my area were. They look at me like I'm a three-headed freak when I stop at a meeting after work in a business suit. I've had it suggested to me that I change into another outfit in my office before I come in. That's just another mask, though, isn't it? Shouldn't I get accepted in what I wear? Do I have to be just like everyone else to be accepted? Would that be real acceptance, or just people liking me for being a fraud. Wouldn't that fall apart eventually?
I'm starting to think that I have a lot more codie problems than addict problems. I don't have any relapses in my addiction, but I relapse into codie mode all the time, and many people in NA trigger that. Know what I mean? I'm sure it sounds whiny to some people who are going through a relapse, or a death of a loved one or a bankruptcy, but my problems seem real to me.
I agree that it might be time to find some normie friends. That'll be a new experience for me.
Love,
KJ
I have a wonderful decades-long career that I love, and only have 5 years until retirement. I make close to 100K a year there, and I never even finished college, so quitting isn't really an option. I wouldn't make that kind of money anywhere else, especially in this economy. In that way, I'm very fortunate. I also have two children, one in college, that I support alone. So it's not like there is time or room for me to reinvent my work-life around my recovery.
I needed to make recovery a priority in an already-busy and thriving life. That's very different from the way most people come to recovery, jobless, homeless, with lots of time to fill. But my old sponsor was unable to deal with that. She wanted me to work it the way she had. She had come to recovery at 24, childless, living with mom, unemployed. She could go to meetings all day. She wanted me to do the same. She urged me to take a leave of absence, and she as much as told me that I would relapse if I didn't follow her advice.
Instead of encouraging me to do as much as I can, she criticized my efforts as "not enough." She resented my nice car, even though I used it to give her rides, and my steady income, even though I often bought her meals when we went out after meetings. She even resented my government job, even though I wrote her a resume and recommended her for a position she applied for. She didn't get the job because she didn't take my advice of keeping her addiction private at the interview but she maintained that she is "living a more authentic life" than I am because I don't talk about my disease at work. At one point in that relationship, she was crying about a breakup with her long-time bf, so I tried to get her to talk about her feelings with me. She told me that was impossible, since I wasn't yet "emotionally mature enough to talk to, because I hadn't worked the steps." It left me feeling more like a piece of cr@p then ever.
Finally, I broke ties with her, but reading your post about Megan was a reminder of how hard it was to find a place for myself in the fellowship when I came in. I guess I never really did find a place in NA, to be honest.
I really appreciate those of you who read the whole thread and offered intelligent and insightful help. Thanks so much, I need that right now.
I'm honestly struggling with finding a place in recovery as a functional addict. I don't want to separate myself out from others in recovery. I want to belong but I don't seem to fit anywhere. It's junior high all over again at NA. I was never cool enough. I was never a prostitute, and almost all the women in my area were. They look at me like I'm a three-headed freak when I stop at a meeting after work in a business suit. I've had it suggested to me that I change into another outfit in my office before I come in. That's just another mask, though, isn't it? Shouldn't I get accepted in what I wear? Do I have to be just like everyone else to be accepted? Would that be real acceptance, or just people liking me for being a fraud. Wouldn't that fall apart eventually?
I'm starting to think that I have a lot more codie problems than addict problems. I don't have any relapses in my addiction, but I relapse into codie mode all the time, and many people in NA trigger that. Know what I mean? I'm sure it sounds whiny to some people who are going through a relapse, or a death of a loved one or a bankruptcy, but my problems seem real to me.
I agree that it might be time to find some normie friends. That'll be a new experience for me.
Love,
KJ
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
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I agree that it might be time to find some normie friends. That'll be a new experience for me.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
I'm not an addict, kj, but I've read a lot, and one of the things I've read is that the drug--the addiction--tells the addict that people are never there when you really need them but the DRUG is ALWAYS there, so it can be trusted and people cannot be trusted.
Healthy friends are few and far between, for us all. It's a crazy world. Maybe a strong AA group with lots of recovery time will connect you with people who are taking responsibility to give as well as take.
Just be careful, ok?
Bluejay
Healthy friends are few and far between, for us all. It's a crazy world. Maybe a strong AA group with lots of recovery time will connect you with people who are taking responsibility to give as well as take.
Just be careful, ok?
Bluejay
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Kj: I agree very, very much with freedom.
Sometimes HP is the only place to go...and, in my experience, the further along you are on your journey the more often HP is the only place to go.
What you are talking about in your post is like the story of my life. And I do totally get that that can feel like a sad and excrutiatingly lonely place to be. As I've said elsewhere, my family often jokes that I was born 30 years old with my dissertation in hand. I have been too smart, too advanced, too strong, too mature, too brave, etc.....etc.....etc...... all of my life. And, while there are, obviously, some upsides to that, one of the major downsides is that it is often next to impossible to convince people that sometimes I really do want and need their help....or at least their sympathy and somebody's help.
Actually, this is kinda embarrassing, but one time I deliberately and consciously "staged a fit" in the middle of Macy's, because I had been trying to talk to my mom and my sister about something that I was really struggling with and how I was feeling about it and they were just like totally not hearing me. Finally, I was so sad and angry and frustrated that I just thought: "Well, clearly they have this idea that, in order for someone to need help, she needs to be a total mess, so let's see what happens if I pretend to be a total mess."
So I did.
It was bizarre, because that behavior is just so totally not me, but you better believe that it got their attention....although looking back on it, I knew that why it really got their attention was because it was just such a total shock to their idea of who/what I am. And actually, they were right...so the attention I got was not really the kind of attention I wanted anyway.
But, that's OK...I really am not at all comfortable with the idea that one has to be having a nervous breakdown before one deserves to have help.
So, yeah, HP is THE place to go.
Although I do have to say that meetings often work for me too -- I think because at meetings you get the combined wisdom and experience of so many people, and together, that adds up to some"one" who can really help me.
And I do have a few very good, long-time friends, both in program and not, who are people who are 100% truly dedicated to "working on themselves and their issues." And, even though in all of these cases, these relationships started out with me as in some sense their "mentor," in my experience, after awhile of walking that path and of getting to know each other really well, these relationships do become much more mutual and these people do have a sense of what questions to ask and what general direction to try to point me in even if they haven't been exactly where I'm at. And sometimes they even have the sense to say back to me something that I've been telling them for years just when I really need to be rminded of it....and, yeah, that's always fun! But, also always helpful.
I wish I had something more concrete and warm-n-fuzzy to say...and if you find a better answer please let me know!!!!!....but this seems to be how it is for me, thus far.
freya
Sometimes HP is the only place to go...and, in my experience, the further along you are on your journey the more often HP is the only place to go.
What you are talking about in your post is like the story of my life. And I do totally get that that can feel like a sad and excrutiatingly lonely place to be. As I've said elsewhere, my family often jokes that I was born 30 years old with my dissertation in hand. I have been too smart, too advanced, too strong, too mature, too brave, etc.....etc.....etc...... all of my life. And, while there are, obviously, some upsides to that, one of the major downsides is that it is often next to impossible to convince people that sometimes I really do want and need their help....or at least their sympathy and somebody's help.
Actually, this is kinda embarrassing, but one time I deliberately and consciously "staged a fit" in the middle of Macy's, because I had been trying to talk to my mom and my sister about something that I was really struggling with and how I was feeling about it and they were just like totally not hearing me. Finally, I was so sad and angry and frustrated that I just thought: "Well, clearly they have this idea that, in order for someone to need help, she needs to be a total mess, so let's see what happens if I pretend to be a total mess."
So I did.
It was bizarre, because that behavior is just so totally not me, but you better believe that it got their attention....although looking back on it, I knew that why it really got their attention was because it was just such a total shock to their idea of who/what I am. And actually, they were right...so the attention I got was not really the kind of attention I wanted anyway.
But, that's OK...I really am not at all comfortable with the idea that one has to be having a nervous breakdown before one deserves to have help.
So, yeah, HP is THE place to go.
Although I do have to say that meetings often work for me too -- I think because at meetings you get the combined wisdom and experience of so many people, and together, that adds up to some"one" who can really help me.
And I do have a few very good, long-time friends, both in program and not, who are people who are 100% truly dedicated to "working on themselves and their issues." And, even though in all of these cases, these relationships started out with me as in some sense their "mentor," in my experience, after awhile of walking that path and of getting to know each other really well, these relationships do become much more mutual and these people do have a sense of what questions to ask and what general direction to try to point me in even if they haven't been exactly where I'm at. And sometimes they even have the sense to say back to me something that I've been telling them for years just when I really need to be rminded of it....and, yeah, that's always fun! But, also always helpful.
I wish I had something more concrete and warm-n-fuzzy to say...and if you find a better answer please let me know!!!!!....but this seems to be how it is for me, thus far.
freya
Last edited by freya; 09-21-2009 at 09:48 AM.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
I clicked on the pie chart in cynical's post about the difference between LOVE and being addicted to someone. I liked it and thought it would be worthwhile to bump it up on the list.
THANKS, CYNICAL. your post about being addicted and confusing it with love was great, but it sure felt awful
cynical / / / / / / me
THANKS, CYNICAL. your post about being addicted and confusing it with love was great, but it sure felt awful
cynical / / / / / / me
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
I'm so grateful that someone bumped this post. Reading my words from last year shows me how far I've come. I came to believe that I had to carve out my own KJ-shaped niche in NA. I came to realize that accepting myself was the answer, and when I was able to do that, I "magically" felt accepted in NA. I can't explain or even understand how it is happening for me, but it is happening. I'm at a much better place now then I was last year. With God's help, my recovery continues to bring me happiness and freedom.
Love,
KJ
Love,
KJ
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