suki44883

I could be wrong, but what I believe KJ meant about keeping her luggage safe is that he might hide drugs in there. Being caught with drugs in Mexico or at the airport is really bad news. She would be assumed to be the owner of the drugs if they are in her luggage.

kj3880

That's right, Suki. Um, I'm an addict, and I vacationed in Cancun. It is easy and much cheaper to get drugs there. And if you are going to Europe next, any good ddict would want to carry some of the cheap Mexican drugs along, because they are pricey, and not as readily available in many countries in Europe.

So of course, most addicts being very selfish and also somewhat scatterbrained, would hide the drugs in YOUR luggage, not ours. We don't want to have to kick drugs in a Mexican prison...ew. So we'll let you take the chance on a rap. Especially if (like your fiance) we are currently out on bail or probation. We'll figure you could handle a trafficking charge, cause you don't have a record yet, and you're a cute girl, maybe you can cry your way out of it or something (don't bet on that in Mexico).

So yeah, trafficking...that's carrying drugs across the border, punishable by the Mexican and international law as a felony, or you could get caught up in a European airport (much tougher trafficking penalties than the US, some other countries even have the death penalty for trafficking) or you could get caught bringing some back to or out of the US. I mean a good addict won't fly without the dope! Never leave home without it, I always said. US Federal prison...making big rocks into little rocks in Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas. No thanks.

But thirteen has a point, too. Eventually, addicts begin stealing from their loved ones, if their addiction continues. Plan accordingly.

Love,
KJ

rose

Dream,

I am going to say to you what was told to me from a lady from my al-anon group and how true it was...she said keep on doing what you want because it is clear that I had not had enough knocks on the head yet. What was in my mind was in my mind, I listened to what others had to say, but was still focused on him.

I continued on my path with him, knock after knock, I guess I had to walk in those shoes until things that had been told to me really started to make sense. There is no better experience than living it, no book or person can possibly shed enough light on what it is really like.

Deep inside I knew there was a real problem, but it was nothing in life that I had ever experienced, so what any counselor, friend or al-anon group told me I thought he will never get that bad, basically they p'd me off. Thought they were blowing things up. They all had to cut the string on me and let me find out for myself and that I did.

It is kind of bitter/sweet, because I think that if I had of just left when others told me to, I might be sitting here today with the maybe if had of just done this or that, I might have made a difference. But I didn't, I hung on and on, got deeper and deeper into the madness, tried every tactic I knew possible and some of my tactics were out of this world, somethings I am ashamed of today...it just got so out of hand and I to was becoming so sick, I needed help now.

We are no longer married, but I know in my mind and I have no real bad regrets of trying, I know today that I did everything possible that I could have done to help him, but it came with a price.

Rose

Ann

This is taken from the U.S. Department of State site regarding travel abroad...

Special Warning About Drug Offenses Abroad

Every year, several hundred Americans are arrested abroad on drug charges. Persons caught with illegal drugs in a foreign country are subject to the drug laws of that country, not those of the U.S.; as always, ignorance of the law is no excuse. In many countries, the burden of proof is on the accused to show that he or she is innocent of the charges.

Some Americans take advantage of an offer of an all-expenses-paid vacation abroad in exchange for carrying a small package in the luggage. When, to their surprise, they are caught, the fact that they did not know that there were drugs in that package will not reduce the charges against them.

Every aspect of a drug arrest abroad can be different from U.S. practice. For instance:

* few countries provide a jury trial
* many countries do not permit pre-trial release on bail
* pre-trial detention, often in solitary confinement, can last several months
* prisons may lack even minimal comforts, such as beds, toilets, and washbasins
* diets are often inadequate and require supplements from relatives and friends
* officials may not speak English
* physical abuse, confiscation of property, degrading treatment and extortion are possible.
* persons convicted may face sentences ranging from fines and jail time, to years of hard labor, and even the death penalty
* penalties for drug possession and for drug trafficking are often the same abroad, so possession of one ounce of marijuana could result in years in a foreign jail



And, yes, it could happen to "you".

laurie6781

You know this whole thread is probably not going to mean a thing.

He is on probation. He is in jail because he violated his probation by missing an appointment with his P.O.

Sounds like he has a tough P.O. and I would doubt if his P.O. is going to sign off on him leaving the country to go to a country where drugs are more readily available than here and then to Europe.

Nope don't think his P.O. will even let him leave the county yet alone the country.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

URMYEVERYTHING

Take some deep breaths Dream Angel and STEP AWAY FROM THE ADDICT for right now. You cannot possibly think clearly what is best for you while he is harping in your ear exactly what he thinks you want to hear. Let him know you need a few days, weeks, etc. to wrap your brain around all of this drama. Who knows, maybe the next day he will show you exactly what his intentions are and your answers will be right there in front of you.

In my experience Dream, dating a R Heroin addict, the best setting for him is a structured setting (rehab then a work house) for him to totally disconnect with the outside world and start learning the tools of recovery and getting back on his own feet without any help from others.

Maybe this should be your boundary with him. Get help in a structured setting and then we can SEE if this relationship has a chance but not making any promises as your recovery comes with no promises.

Best of luck to you... I wish you the best. Keep us posted.

lightseeker

my first husband put some marijuana in my toiletry bag once when we left the country....because "you're so innocent that noone would suspect you of anything and search your bags". I didn't know that he had done that until we were at the resort and he was lying on the bed smoking a joint. So.....my recommendation is to be very very careful. Even people that love you dearly are capable of the unbelieveable when it comes to drugs. I have travelled all around outside the US and drugs are everywhere and easy to procure. Every time that I have travelled outside of the US I have been approached (and trust me....1st hubbie was right) with drugs. And I wasn't hanging around dark corners. That would be alot to deal with anytime in recovery let alone the first month. Just something to think about.

The fact that you are even considering taking him on these trips tells me alot about where you are in your feelings and thinking. I am not judging you because Lord knows I've walked down your path with the charming, loving, and remorseful drug addict. Who knows maybe this time you'll be right and he will stay clean.

This leds me to this point.....I struggled mightily until I finally was able to determine my true bottom lines. If there is behavior that crosses that line, I forgive him and then give another chance then I am setting myself up for even more heartache. It was important for me not to say that if he ever used again or whatever it is and if I was going to waiver on my stance in the long run it was time for me to sit down with myself and get real. If I'm not ready to stand by the consequence then I am not to give it as an ultimatum. I deserve more from myself than that. Different people (I mean codies) have different bottom lines. I have an aquaintances in Naranon who doesn't want to be with an active addict but her bottom line is not to leave when their addict uses.... her bottom line is that she won't worry about the addict when he relapses and that she will remain serene and happy in her own life. No one will judge you for your bottom line.....just try not to dishonor yourself for stating a bottom line that you are not willing to stand by.

If you are considering letting him back in your life then it is important to take a look at what had been your bottom lines. Maybe expand your options that allow you to feel better about yourself when you set your bottom lines. Taking someone back after you've drawn your line in the sand is difficult for both of you in the long. We all do what we need/want to do but setting yourself up for standards that you aren't ready to enforce undermines you and your own self respect in the long run.

I can tell that you are struggling with all of this. Keep exploring/reading/learning and that will help alot. Really learn what recovery looks like and what it means. And then at least you'll know what it is vs. what he tells you it is. Recovery is a whole lot more than going to meetings, taking a pill, and making promises. Recovery means active participation in a recovery program, willingly going to meetings, working the steps with a sponsor, not making major changes in the first year of recovery, and making choices that indicate that recovery is occurring.

I would be suspect of someone that had had a recent relapse even considering a trip out of the country and even to a resort (drinking is a gateway drug). At the very least, where are the comments of "I'll go but I will be going to a meeting everyday while I'm there and I'll be in close contact with my sponsor". Living with someone in recovery is not fun and games...and if they are really doing it (especially the first year) then there are going to be a lot of times when you are alone. Recovery will always come first in someone truly recovering....you, your potential kids. It's a tough way to live but anything an addict puts before his/her recovery is something that he/she will ultimately lose. You don't "get well" from this, you go into remission.

I would recommend getting connected into a face to face recovery community (Naraon or Alanon) if your choice is to continue on this path. And even if you don't. I discovered that even one relationship with an addict meant that there was something in me that drew me to relationships that weren't healthy in the long run.

ThirteenYears

Okay, I missed her point because my mind was elsewhere, like if he does relapse, how will he pay for the drugs out there with no money -- my thought was by stealing what he can from her and selling it because in NY, that's how they do, your family members will steal your stuff if you allow them around your stuff, then go sell it or pawn it so they can use the money to buy drugs. If you don't allow them around your stuff then they'll go steal or whatever elsewhere.

I'd of never thought of him hiding drugs in her bag because I didn't know addicts did that, I got them pegged for buying it, then using it, then trying to get money again, then go buy more, then use it. To store it, I'm not even there because I'm thinking they won't store it but, will use it because the amount of money he'll have access to out there will be limited to him buying small amounts, which isn't enough to use some and save some, but to just use it up.

Talk about putting yourself in someone else's shoes -- I put myself in the OP's shoes and called it from how it could be with me and my AH, should he happen to relapse on vacation. Plus, my AH would not bring his drugs around me or hide it with my stuff, which is why he doesn't have issue with staying away from me after he's relapsed -- he don't want me to see him tore up. If he did any hiding, it would be with his stuff, not with mine.

ThirteenYears

Girl, I've watched LOCKED UP ABROAD -- they don't give a what about a pretty face -- if you get caught your butt is going down.

URMYEVERYTHING

I have learned throughout years in the field and dealing with my RBF, don't put ANYTHING past an addict. When you think they won't, they will. When you think they will, they won't. This smiley is exactly how I see an addict in action. Always trying to get the one up on you and/or their victims.

kj3880

You're right Thirteenyears, they don't care about a pretty face at all in some places when it comes down to charging you. Did you see the special called "Ganja Queen?" In it, Schappelle Corby, a pretty Australian girl, 23 years old, is found to have about a pound of marijuana in her boogie board case, shaped into a boogie board size parcel in a Bali airport. She's immediately taken to prison in Bali, where she will remain until 2025, when she will be 43. Her youth gone. Actually, the officials in Bali showed her a lot of mercy due to the press, because the sentence there for that offense is usually death.

Here is an excerpt from The Independent, an English paper:

"In 1986 the number of foreign nationals serving sentences in British jails was just 2,793. The rise over the past 13 years is largely explained by an increase in the number of people jailed for drug-related offences. A substantial proportion of these are women, many of whom are used as "mules" to smuggle drugs into Europe."

Another excerpt from the same souce:
"The Female Prisoners Welfare Project said drug cartels use dozens of couriers because for every one that gets caught, five get through Customs. The cartels use young and middle-aged women as couriers. Many arrive in Britain without their families, expecting to be in the country for just a few days....Mr Fletcher said foreign nationals are severely disadvantaged in British jails. "Often the legal advice is poor quality, in most cases there is no court report, after sentence this group is isolated, they do not have access to regular support systems, there is often ignorance of the deportation procedure and there can be discriminatory treatment," he said."

The penalties in England, for example, for possession of Class A (includes most heavy street drugs, meth, heroin, cocaine, etc) is 7 years in jail + fine, and for trafficking and/or supply it is Life + fine. Ugh. Much higher than the US penalties.

Some random facts for you all about drugs in Europe:
From Time magazine:
"...(heroin) supplies are so plentiful that street prices in Paris have dropped from $120 to $60 a gram in the past six months—thus making it cheaper to lure new addicts."

and they are looking for white girls in airports to search because apparently to avoid detection, the Triad of Asian connections are: "recruiting middle-class Caucasian women as "mules" for $1,000 a trip plus plane fare." So we might probably get checked.

Anyway, enough outta me.

Love,
KJ

worthyoflove

IMHO....HECK NO! Do NOT take him with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

suchAsucker

First a WARNING: I only found out later that my ex stuffed crack cocaine down his underware so that he could bring drugs to Las Vegas with him. When he told me this years later, I was horrified -- and also realized why a whole lot of the trip was such a bummer, made sense finally. Don't think that a trip outside the country or the threat of a security check at the airport will magically deter him from using drugs.

NOW ON A POSITIVE NOTE: Years ago, I went to Europe with some college friends and by the 1st week of the trip I knew it wasn't working out (if you want to get to know someone, travel with them!).. I decided to leave them at a youth hostel on the coast of the French Riviera and make my own way (no hard feelings on their part) through the Eurpoean countryside... For the next two weeks, I had a fantastic time wandering around on trains, beaches, museums by myself.

Then, about 7 years after that, I decided to take myself on a trip to Paris over the Christmas/New Year's holiday... and it was so awesome. I sat in dusty little French cafes reading Hemingway and feeling very independent and content, and meeting very cool people along the way.

I say go ahead and take the trip by yourself.. Be safe, but take this opportunity to go see the world! I'm sure that when you look back 50 years from now, you'll wish you'd gone on the trip! Don't let him ruin something else you've dreamed of doing because of his crazy-making. Get a good tan in Mexico, and eat like a Queen in Europe!

....And for what it's worth, you could prpbably have that extra ticket sold within 24 hours by posting on your local Craigslist-->tickets link..

Bon Voyage!

IPT

I clearly remember telling my friends when I decided to give her "one more chance" (and try again) that "I guess I just need to get kicked in the head one more time"...
I once was speaking to a riend and said that I needed to be done. That I gave her a million chances and clearly she cannot or is not ready to change...his response to my "million chances" was "that's an understatement!".

worthyoflove

OMG!! After I got off here, I was hit with a realization about my ex. He wanted me to go to San Diego with him to meet his brother and SIL, so we flew out there. He and his brother wanted to go to Mexico, so we drove down there. I had forgotten an incident before the trip. He came over my friend's house and seemed "high" on something. he told me he had gotten percocets from his friend. He disappeared for a short time while we were in Mexico and now I know why! They sell prescription pills like soap in the stores. He overdosed years ago and was found dead. I couldn't handle him lashing out at me and his heavy partying, so I left the relationship. I never realized what was actually going on in Mexico until I read this post. Thank you for sharing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you make the wisest decision for YOU!

ladyhawk69

If you're really done with him, take him to Mexico and come home by yourself!
--That's by bitchy side coming out lol

Puggrinz

Well October 11 has come and gone. Did you take him to Mexico?

My husband is a heroin addict. He sounds an awful lot like your ex fiancee. My AAH has lost his license for life for a DUI, which not only included alcohol, but oxys, and heroin, all in his system at the same time for the felony DUI.

I don't know how Washington state is, but where I live, there was no way he could leave the country and was still on probation. He could go to another state with permission, but that was it. Did the PO officer tell you this himself or did your Addict tell you this? There is a big difference.

As far as the issue of you wanting him to go on the trip because of the ticket cost, well how much money has he wasted shooting it up his arm or snorting up his nose, or smoking it? How much of that money was non-refundable?

Whenever I have to change plans or cancel certain things that cost money due to my AAH choosing his drugs over being with us for the activity that was planned, and I start to feel guilty or bad or mad about the money that was spent, I just ask myself: Well, look at it as an amount he just shot up. I wouldn't be getting THAT back, so I just cut my losses and go on.

For instance, we had tickets to a broadway play. We had been planning as a family for months to go see this play. I had bought all three of our tickets, had the hotel reserved, my daughter and I were going to treat my husband to our favorite restaurant in the "big city", it was going to be magical!!! We were so excited. So 1 week before the grand trip my AAH decided he loved heroin more than us and walked out.

I sat there with a ticket in my hand that had cost over $100, just for his ticket. And I felt guilty, because it was like flushing money down the toliet. Then I thought to myself, well it's no different than the amount of money he shoots up his arm. So I didn't feel guilty any more.

Anytime I have a situation where something doesn't quite work out and money gets "wasted" I just try and tell myself, well it's no different than if he shot it up. And in his lifetime of using, he has shot up hundreds of thousands of dollars and there is no way even if I flushed every dime we got that could ever match that.

Sometimes we just have to cut our losses.

And sweetie, OMG! A heroin addict in Mexico?? That is like nirvana. They can and will find a connection somewhere, somehow. There are always people available to hook you up!!! No matter what, no matter where!!! I can't stress this enough!! What would you do, tie him up when you have to use the bathroom or take a shower??

One last thing--as to the putting of the drugs in your luggage or bags. Well my husband went once and bought a huge amount of weed and had it in a coffee can in the back seat of MY car. And here I am shuttling my daughter back and forth to school, and attending college myself, and going grocery shopping, all the while this giant amount of marijuana is in the floorboard of my car. I am driving all around, totally oblivious. And then one day I see this coffee can in the back seat floorboard of my car and I say to my self "which of these things doesn't belong?" So I opened it up and there was an ungodly amount of pot. And I asked my Husband what were you doing with that in MY car? And you know what he said? (The anthem of addicts everywhere!

"Oh it's not mine, it's for a friend of mine."

and "I forgot all about it."

Well thank you. I am sure that the cop who could have pulled me over had never heard the excuse of "omg! that's not my pot!!" And look how much my daughter and I mattered to my AAH. He forgot all about his illegal drugs in MY car, and didn't care that he put our freedom at risk to begin with!!!

I hope you were able to come to a solution that brought serenity to you. When we want our addicts to be with us, we can come up with every excuse in the book as to why we can't tell them no.

There simply is no price tag you can put on serenity or peace for your soul. And don't worry if it didn't work out the way you wanted it. Our HP gives us many chances to learn the lesson we are supposed to. Maybe it just wasn't your time to learn the lesson yet. When the time is right we are given enlightenment.

IPT

I wonder too. I hope that she is okay whether she went or not, with or without him. If you are lurking on the boards please chime in and gves us an update. With him, without him, good outcome or bad we still got your back .