Need a voice/words of wisdom and experience..
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Need a voice/words of wisdom and experience..
Why am I doing this? I have this desire, need, to contact my AGF. On the surface it is to point out to her that she is getting worse. That her behavior and excuses (the same ones over and over) have become transparent and are obviously just her way of buying time, be free of responsibility, commitment, to do as she pleases without having to answer to me. Underneath that I fear that I am not truly done with this girl….that maybe she will finally change……that I still care for her.
A brief background – maybe not so brief because it helps me to vent. I was on here a year ago, at my wits ends. This place helped immensely. Long story shortened, by Oct of last year I basically told my AGF that I was done with her excuses and not being around. Not following thru, and coming second to her family (co-dependant and co users) and drugs. She went on a trip out of state, away from her family and called me in tears, begging for second chance (again). She had clarity and said “I realize I need to put us first”, and so on. She even made a list of behaviors she needed to change. She came back and things were really pretty good for a few months, though she was still smoking weed, her DOC… after the holidays where she reconnected with her family (at least I saw that as the cause…it may have been for other reasons) things started slipping. As she started regressing over the next months I pointed it out to her, yet it continued. In early April she decided she wanted to color Easter eggs with her niece instead of keep the plans we had made. I was tired of arguing that her family always comes before us and said fine. She said she’d call and see me later. That was at 9am. As far as I knew we were going to diner with her family that night. By 11PM that night I had not heard a word from her. was done and I texted her that I was. I finally grasped that she was incapable of changing. I was truly free and it felt good. I had done all that I could and she just was unable to keep up her end of the bargain.
We had no communication for a week or so. Then I received several texts from her and my response was usually “you made your choices, you didn’t follow thru, I miss you too but you’ve made no effort to change, I am not going back to that life, I need a trusting committed relationship, or I told you this is what was going to happen and you did nothing to change it”. I had even started dating a few other people but just didn’t connect with them. After 7 wks of not seeing her she caught me at a weak moment with a sexual invitation. I gave in. We started seeing each other once a week and I got closer to her but told her I did not want a relationship with her. I kept the mental distance though she was trying to re-connect I wouldn’t. Though under it all I think I was slowly reconnecting and she was accepting what I told her, that I did not want her/that. Right about the time I realized I was reconnected and was going to discuss with her “trying one more time, and what she and I both needed or wanted from a relationship, she pulled back. We had made plans to spend an entire day together and just have fun. Admittedly (by her the night before) she was going to “celebrate” the 4th so couldn’t make it that night. She said she’d be over early the next morning which I knew would never happen. The next day when she no showed it tore me up. Her response to all my attempts to contact her were “sorry, can’t talk now” or something to that effect. Finally a week later we had already made plans for an event. She texted to find out the time it started. Right at that time she cancelled, by text. I blew up on her about being a liar and manipulator (feel right back to me old pattern dang it) and to leave me alone. She hooked me beck in my replying that I didn’t want her, we had no commitment because that is what I wanted. There is some truth in that, but I was considering otherwise. The thing is she turned the table and has now made it my doing, or fault. I’ve backed off. The last text from her said “I am not ignoring you. You hurt me and I need more time before we talk. Take care of yourself”. I have not responded. I did write 2 page letter illustrating to her that her actions and excuses are transparent, that she is getting worse, and that I do care for her and she needs to gain control of her life. I have done nothing with that yet. I dont even know what my intention of writing it is for.
So here I am feeling this pit in my stomach. Dealing with the reality of what she may have been doing all those times she wasn’t here and feeling sick about it. Trying to get back to where I was several weeks ago where I felt I did all I could and it clearly was all on her. These relationships are such tangled messes. I am back to feeling like I do not know if I am coming or going. Like I know I should leave but want to reach out and try and pull her back. I am floundering around and it sucks………. (and yes I am keeping myself busy with friends and projects, even a few meaningless dates).
A brief background – maybe not so brief because it helps me to vent. I was on here a year ago, at my wits ends. This place helped immensely. Long story shortened, by Oct of last year I basically told my AGF that I was done with her excuses and not being around. Not following thru, and coming second to her family (co-dependant and co users) and drugs. She went on a trip out of state, away from her family and called me in tears, begging for second chance (again). She had clarity and said “I realize I need to put us first”, and so on. She even made a list of behaviors she needed to change. She came back and things were really pretty good for a few months, though she was still smoking weed, her DOC… after the holidays where she reconnected with her family (at least I saw that as the cause…it may have been for other reasons) things started slipping. As she started regressing over the next months I pointed it out to her, yet it continued. In early April she decided she wanted to color Easter eggs with her niece instead of keep the plans we had made. I was tired of arguing that her family always comes before us and said fine. She said she’d call and see me later. That was at 9am. As far as I knew we were going to diner with her family that night. By 11PM that night I had not heard a word from her. was done and I texted her that I was. I finally grasped that she was incapable of changing. I was truly free and it felt good. I had done all that I could and she just was unable to keep up her end of the bargain.
We had no communication for a week or so. Then I received several texts from her and my response was usually “you made your choices, you didn’t follow thru, I miss you too but you’ve made no effort to change, I am not going back to that life, I need a trusting committed relationship, or I told you this is what was going to happen and you did nothing to change it”. I had even started dating a few other people but just didn’t connect with them. After 7 wks of not seeing her she caught me at a weak moment with a sexual invitation. I gave in. We started seeing each other once a week and I got closer to her but told her I did not want a relationship with her. I kept the mental distance though she was trying to re-connect I wouldn’t. Though under it all I think I was slowly reconnecting and she was accepting what I told her, that I did not want her/that. Right about the time I realized I was reconnected and was going to discuss with her “trying one more time, and what she and I both needed or wanted from a relationship, she pulled back. We had made plans to spend an entire day together and just have fun. Admittedly (by her the night before) she was going to “celebrate” the 4th so couldn’t make it that night. She said she’d be over early the next morning which I knew would never happen. The next day when she no showed it tore me up. Her response to all my attempts to contact her were “sorry, can’t talk now” or something to that effect. Finally a week later we had already made plans for an event. She texted to find out the time it started. Right at that time she cancelled, by text. I blew up on her about being a liar and manipulator (feel right back to me old pattern dang it) and to leave me alone. She hooked me beck in my replying that I didn’t want her, we had no commitment because that is what I wanted. There is some truth in that, but I was considering otherwise. The thing is she turned the table and has now made it my doing, or fault. I’ve backed off. The last text from her said “I am not ignoring you. You hurt me and I need more time before we talk. Take care of yourself”. I have not responded. I did write 2 page letter illustrating to her that her actions and excuses are transparent, that she is getting worse, and that I do care for her and she needs to gain control of her life. I have done nothing with that yet. I dont even know what my intention of writing it is for.
So here I am feeling this pit in my stomach. Dealing with the reality of what she may have been doing all those times she wasn’t here and feeling sick about it. Trying to get back to where I was several weeks ago where I felt I did all I could and it clearly was all on her. These relationships are such tangled messes. I am back to feeling like I do not know if I am coming or going. Like I know I should leave but want to reach out and try and pull her back. I am floundering around and it sucks………. (and yes I am keeping myself busy with friends and projects, even a few meaningless dates).
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"If only I could get through to her.... she would understand how horrible her behavior is and how destructive it is to our relationship..."
I must have said that to myself 1,000 times... thinking about my AGF. I wrote long, detailed, eloquent e-mails. I provided all kinds of factual data points.
I might as well have been talking to my dog. People who are in active addiction don't think rationally. Why? Because they are addicts.
As hard as it is to accecpt, we didn't create it (their addiction), we can't control it, and we can't cure it. All of our attempts to persuade, pressure, convince etc will fall on deaf ears. We become the enemy because we are actively trying to get them to stop using.
My AGF lied to me, manipulated me (sometimes with sex), stole from me, blamed me, told me I was the one who was really sick, ignored me... all in an effort to get me to allow her to continue to use.
It sucks. But my AGF had to really hit bottom before recovery even became an option. All the behaviors you see today will continue... until SHE decides she wants to get well.
The best thing you can do is focus on yourself. I have found Al Anon to be VERY helpful, but it did take me 4-5 meetings before I really understood what it was all about.
Be strong. Take care of yourself. Your AGF is going to do whatever she is going to do. You can only change yourself.
I must have said that to myself 1,000 times... thinking about my AGF. I wrote long, detailed, eloquent e-mails. I provided all kinds of factual data points.
I might as well have been talking to my dog. People who are in active addiction don't think rationally. Why? Because they are addicts.
As hard as it is to accecpt, we didn't create it (their addiction), we can't control it, and we can't cure it. All of our attempts to persuade, pressure, convince etc will fall on deaf ears. We become the enemy because we are actively trying to get them to stop using.
My AGF lied to me, manipulated me (sometimes with sex), stole from me, blamed me, told me I was the one who was really sick, ignored me... all in an effort to get me to allow her to continue to use.
It sucks. But my AGF had to really hit bottom before recovery even became an option. All the behaviors you see today will continue... until SHE decides she wants to get well.
The best thing you can do is focus on yourself. I have found Al Anon to be VERY helpful, but it did take me 4-5 meetings before I really understood what it was all about.
Be strong. Take care of yourself. Your AGF is going to do whatever she is going to do. You can only change yourself.
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Thanks - I guess what I am trying to do is get back to that place where I was at peace with telling her I did not want her or the chaos and pain she brought with her in my life. I was there, I liked it...now I am chasing her in my mind, fiending like an addict without a fix in sight.
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So, I can only share from my experience. What held me in the relationship, even with the lies, deceipt, chaos etc. was my dream... or as my therapist calls it, my "imagined future." When we are in a relationship with someone, we naturally think about what our future will be like. We have the movie trailer that runs in our head.... and we start telling ourselves, if only she would get sober... then we could have the dream.
My therapist says to me that the key to breaking free is to creat a new / different imagined future for yourself... one that does not involve the addict. I spend time thinking about what do I want from my life, what are the things I want to do.... with my kids... with my friends... and most importantly by myself.
There is a concept called "Chronic Sorrow." The idea is that some losses remain present in our life over time. This is as opposed to when someone dies.. which is a point in time event. The original research was done about the sense of loss felt by parents with a child who has a disability. As a parent, before a child is born, we have all of these hopes and dreams for the person we are bringing into the world. When the child has a disability, we have to let go of those dreams. The problem is that unconciously, every time the parent sees the child, that loss is made new. It is the emotional equivalent of picking at a scab. If you pick at the scab, the wound never heals.
Living with someone in active addiction can be its own form of Chronic Sorrow. Each time we see the addict use / drink, we are reminded that our dream for the future isn't going to happen. We pick at the scab.
We can either leave the addict... or detach with love... or both. But until we let go of the dream, we can't heal.
Take the shattered dream, and replace it with a new one....
My therapist says to me that the key to breaking free is to creat a new / different imagined future for yourself... one that does not involve the addict. I spend time thinking about what do I want from my life, what are the things I want to do.... with my kids... with my friends... and most importantly by myself.
There is a concept called "Chronic Sorrow." The idea is that some losses remain present in our life over time. This is as opposed to when someone dies.. which is a point in time event. The original research was done about the sense of loss felt by parents with a child who has a disability. As a parent, before a child is born, we have all of these hopes and dreams for the person we are bringing into the world. When the child has a disability, we have to let go of those dreams. The problem is that unconciously, every time the parent sees the child, that loss is made new. It is the emotional equivalent of picking at a scab. If you pick at the scab, the wound never heals.
Living with someone in active addiction can be its own form of Chronic Sorrow. Each time we see the addict use / drink, we are reminded that our dream for the future isn't going to happen. We pick at the scab.
We can either leave the addict... or detach with love... or both. But until we let go of the dream, we can't heal.
Take the shattered dream, and replace it with a new one....
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Trainwreak - thank you. I will back read your posts many times today (and any others someone may contribute). I am totally stuck on the "imagined future" as you put it. I was reading "To good to leave, too bad to stay" recently. One of the anologies she gave was waiting for a bus. It's late 5 or 10 mins but you waited. You decide you already invested time so wait more, now 20mins. Now you want your rewrd, since you've already invested 20 mins. The more you invest the harder it is too leave. Soon you waited 40 mins and you could have walked there in 20!
I want my reward dang it......
but alas it is not coming, is it!? Oh what a shattered dream it is, and it was such a nice one too....
I want my reward dang it......
but alas it is not coming, is it!? Oh what a shattered dream it is, and it was such a nice one too....
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Originally Posted by IPT 
I do care for her and she needs to gain control of her life. .
This sounds like you know what's best for her and are trying to control her.
This sounds like a relationship of hopeful fantasy....if she changes her ways all will be well. If only life were that easy.
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Originally Posted by outtolunch
Why?
This sounds like you know what's best for her and are trying to control her.
This sounds like a relationship of hopeful fantasy....if she changes her ways all will be well. If only life were that easy.
This sounds like you know what's best for her and are trying to control her.
This sounds like a relationship of hopeful fantasy....if she changes her ways all will be well. If only life were that easy.
When a person tells you on more than one occasion “I don’t see the purpose of living. I wish for death every day, but I am too much of a coward to kill myself” – they NEED to change something. She is trapped in a room with the door wide open and cannot find the way out.
There have been things that overwhelmed me, I did not want to do. Was unsure I could do. Then after getting encouragement from my support system (family and friends) eventually went on to do and it was great. What happens to people that have no support system? Or worse yet that their support system actively hold them back and tell them they will fail, don’t even bother?
I am an eternal optimist, too much so for my own good. As has been pointed out by several there is a fantasy playing out that I am attached to. We had a good year, then her mother became needy and it was all downhill from there. As much as it may be unrealistic I want to see her better.
As has been stated many times on these forums we didn’t create it and we can’t fix it. It’s just that everywhere else in my life with hard work, commitment and dedication I could fix most things (or at least learn to accept them and deal with it). I am “stuck” on this one again. I was out a few weeks ago…just need to get back there.
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What brought me to my bottom in my addictions and a better way life?
It took five years of a violent and brutal marriage to an active addict (which gave me good reason not to focus on mine because I was focused on his).
It took me being beaten on a daily basis except when he was out on his drug runs, and thinking I deserved it.
It took me finally having nothing between me and me when he went to rehab, and then I hit my bottom fast and hard.
It took me being taken to a rehab weighing 109 pounds on a 6' frame, pregnant, veins on both arms blown, and too weak to even hold my head up for long.
Do you think anyone, including myself, would have wished that for me?
However, that is exactly what it took for me to get clean and sober.
God either is everything, or he is nothing. Either trust the process, or don't.
Whenever I get into the mode of thinking that I know what is best for someone else, I check first to see if God has died and left a note for me to be in charge.
I haven't found that note yet.
It took five years of a violent and brutal marriage to an active addict (which gave me good reason not to focus on mine because I was focused on his).
It took me being beaten on a daily basis except when he was out on his drug runs, and thinking I deserved it.
It took me finally having nothing between me and me when he went to rehab, and then I hit my bottom fast and hard.
It took me being taken to a rehab weighing 109 pounds on a 6' frame, pregnant, veins on both arms blown, and too weak to even hold my head up for long.
Do you think anyone, including myself, would have wished that for me?
However, that is exactly what it took for me to get clean and sober.
God either is everything, or he is nothing. Either trust the process, or don't.
Whenever I get into the mode of thinking that I know what is best for someone else, I check first to see if God has died and left a note for me to be in charge.
I haven't found that note yet.
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IPT, I just want to say that I was in a circus of insanity much like you about 10 years ago. I simply mustered all the strength I could and I said 'ENOUGH!!!" I stopped all communication and got on with my life the best way I knew how. He kept calling and emailing me for 3 MORE YEARS. I never answered a single one. It was the only way otherwise I'd just get sucked right back in -- like you have time after time.
That was a lifetime ago and I'm now happily married to a wonderful man. I look back on that era of my life and THANK GOD for giving me the strength to leave. I know exactly how it would have turned out if I hadn't -- a picture that scares the hell out of me.
Run -- don't walk -- in the opposite direction and straight to your nearest Al-Anon meeting. You sound like a great guy -- don't waste your life -- she sounds like she's a LONG way from getting any real help.
That was a lifetime ago and I'm now happily married to a wonderful man. I look back on that era of my life and THANK GOD for giving me the strength to leave. I know exactly how it would have turned out if I hadn't -- a picture that scares the hell out of me.
Run -- don't walk -- in the opposite direction and straight to your nearest Al-Anon meeting. You sound like a great guy -- don't waste your life -- she sounds like she's a LONG way from getting any real help.
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Originally Posted by tjp613
IPT, I just want to say that I was in a circus of insanity much like you about 10 years ago. I simply mustered all the strength I could and I said 'ENOUGH!!!" I stopped all communication and got on with my life the best way I knew how. He kept calling and emailing me for 3 MORE YEARS. I never answered a single one. It was the only way otherwise I'd just get sucked right back in -- like you have time after time.
You sound like a great guy -- don't waste your life -- she sounds like she's a LONG way from getting any real help.
You sound like a great guy -- don't waste your life -- she sounds like she's a LONG way from getting any real help.
Strange how 2 months ago I was DONE. I pulled the plug and was at peace with it. It seemed so clear and obvious. I made the mistake of getting close agin and now that she is the one who is pulled back I am chasing!
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Originally Posted by IPT
Strange how 2 months ago I was DONE. I pulled the plug and was at peace with it. It seemed so clear and obvious. I made the mistake of getting close agin and now that she is the one who is pulled back I am chasing!
You have to go through it to get to it! Get moving!
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Originally Posted by cynical one
Do you see where your actions and excuses are also transparent and that you too need to gain control of your life.
Both of you make promises, and neither of you commit to what you say. Easy to point that finger...hard to look in the mirror.
Both of you make promises, and neither of you commit to what you say. Easy to point that finger...hard to look in the mirror.
FWIW - I wrote that letter on some levels (I hope) for my own therapy. To put it on paper and see the reality of what it has become. I am trying to work my way thru this, though I think I may also be fooling myself and be trying to work my way back into it (sigh) :wtf2. Maybe not, I think what I want really is for her to show me that I was important in some way to her. That it wasn't all a big lie....impossible I know, she is not capable of it.....I can type it, but even as I read "I am an addict" over and over it is just still not sinking in.
Thank you all for your posts. I will be reading and re-reading them to build up momentum.
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Another letter you might consider writing is a "Goodbye to My CoDependency" letter! Say goodbye to the need to have her behave in a certain (different) way. Say goodbye to the future you envisioned and 'invested in'. Say goodbye to your manipulative and selfish behaviors and hello to honesty and integrity, etc. You know what to say.
Then burn the letter and let it all go up in smoke. Just say Goodbye.
Then burn the letter and let it all go up in smoke. Just say Goodbye.
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I'm trying....as I strip away the fantasy, and look at reality I am hit with emotions. I am mad I stayed, trusted her words and intermittent actions that I was duped and couldn't see it. I feel lied too and betrayed. I feel sick inside. It pretty much sucks and still I wonder if she even cares and if not how can that be after 4 years. I know the answer is addiction, but it does not compute as it is not in my personal repetoir of understanding and functioning.....
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IPT... when I think about that letter.... I think of it as a letter explaining what you want and don't want in a relationship. It is okay to want those things... but to ask for them is another story. There are women out there - that already are those things! Thing is - would there be the connection ... the same amount of love you know you are able to give? *That is at least something I think about. But you know what? I can still love him... but I also KNOW that I can't change him... I can't cure him and I can't cause him to be anything different, good or bad, other than being himself - and I ask myself - is that enough for me? Is that what I can accept and live with? NO and NO. But it doesn't mean I don't love him - in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I love him til' the day I die. I just KNOW that I am unable to be in a functioning relationship with him. And that is OKAY! I don't have to be. I got sick and tired of trying to fit in a square peg in a round hole.
I know the instructions now... they have been drilled into me - telling me how to detach, work on myself, not having contact, healing my hurts... etc.... I'm staying close to SR during this time, I am "feeling" every emotion - not pushing it away, I am "going through it - to get through it".
Have you been to al-anon lately?
Have you taken a personal inventory? Do you see what your role is in all of this?
Your story is very much push ~ n ~ pull. You push she pulls .... and when you pull away she pushes. Do you think what it will be like to have a relationship where both people are putting deposits into a relationship?
I know I do - and until I am in one - I am going to deposit a lot into myself... build up my "own" SELF... and instead of trying to fix others - have compassion - that they will one day figure it all out - like I keep doing. IF someone just "told" me all that I know now - it wouldn't register. I was in that boxing ring.... getting knocked down and knocked down - but I kept on getting up! It was only amount of time *esp. w/all of my self healing* - that I was going to get knocked out by all the distrust - rejection - not being as important to him as he is to me - coming in second... <insert addiction ways> here.
SR has saved my life... literally. I can come here and share and read, know that I'm not alone, not feel like I'm crazy.
Hang in there IPT!
Peace and Love xoxoxo
PS ~
I have found Sia' ---- "Some people have real problems" - to be an album of healing. I wish I could upload it for everyone hear to listen. I don't have to write - or even think - I just listen to her and she sings every thing that is in my heart, soul, and mind!
YouTube - Sia - Death by Chocolate
I know the instructions now... they have been drilled into me - telling me how to detach, work on myself, not having contact, healing my hurts... etc.... I'm staying close to SR during this time, I am "feeling" every emotion - not pushing it away, I am "going through it - to get through it".
Have you been to al-anon lately?
Have you taken a personal inventory? Do you see what your role is in all of this?
Your story is very much push ~ n ~ pull. You push she pulls .... and when you pull away she pushes. Do you think what it will be like to have a relationship where both people are putting deposits into a relationship?
I know I do - and until I am in one - I am going to deposit a lot into myself... build up my "own" SELF... and instead of trying to fix others - have compassion - that they will one day figure it all out - like I keep doing. IF someone just "told" me all that I know now - it wouldn't register. I was in that boxing ring.... getting knocked down and knocked down - but I kept on getting up! It was only amount of time *esp. w/all of my self healing* - that I was going to get knocked out by all the distrust - rejection - not being as important to him as he is to me - coming in second... <insert addiction ways> here.
SR has saved my life... literally. I can come here and share and read, know that I'm not alone, not feel like I'm crazy.
Hang in there IPT!
Peace and Love xoxoxo
PS ~
I have found Sia' ---- "Some people have real problems" - to be an album of healing. I wish I could upload it for everyone hear to listen. I don't have to write - or even think - I just listen to her and she sings every thing that is in my heart, soul, and mind!
YouTube - Sia - Death by Chocolate
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Originally Posted by IPT
I'm trying....as I strip away the fantasy, and look at reality I am hit with emotions. I am mad I stayed, trusted her words and intermittent actions that I was duped and couldn't see it. I feel lied too and betrayed. I feel sick inside. It pretty much sucks and still I wonder if she even cares and if not how can that be after 4 years. I know the answer is addiction, but it does not compute as it is not in my personal repetoir of understanding and functioning.....
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Originally Posted by Abundance
IPT... when I think about that letter.... I think of it as a letter explaining what you want and don't want in a relationship. It is okay to want those things... but to ask for them is another story. There are women out there - that already are those things!
Your story is very much push ~ n ~ pull. You push she pulls .... and when you pull away she pushes.
Your story is very much push ~ n ~ pull. You push she pulls .... and when you pull away she pushes.
I know that I cannot accept (or should I say "cannot live happily" because I have been "accpeting" it for years now....) with that type of treatment. Of course I deserve more, should expect more, but that is not even the thing. The thing is I know that I CANNOT live with her actions the way they are. It just doesn’t work. It hurts too much. It drains the life out of me living on edge and in worry about the canc text...
I was in a good place several weeks ago. Just need to get back there.
I really appreciate everyone’s support, sharing their experiences, and words of wisdom. This place is a Godsend.
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Originally Posted by tjp613
Don't date for awhile, that just hurts too much when the chemistry isn't right.
I guess it is part of our own denial and defense to keep the dream alive, protect ourselves from the pain.
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Originally Posted by IPT
Yeah, sort of discovered that this weekend. Made me miss her even more for those "good things/parts" that seem stuck in my brain overshadowing all the bigger, uglier, bad parts. Why do we idealize these people?
I guess it is part of our own denial and defense to keep the dream alive, protect ourselves from the pain.
I guess it is part of our own denial and defense to keep the dream alive, protect ourselves from the pain.
If you are dating now I'd say you're really setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not judging...I did the same thing!! LOL In my Al-Anon meeting last night I was reminded of that painful time and remembered how much I "grew" in the time I just spent alone -- reading, meditating, journaling. I SO need to get back to that habit. For now I'm looking forward to training my golden retreiver to be a therapy dog. I think that would be awesome to take her to a nursing home or the children's hospital just to get out of my own head a few times a month.
I hope you have a good day today!
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