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Do they actually believe their own lies?

Old 06-25-2009, 07:55 AM
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Do they actually believe their own lies?

Or that we will believe them no matter what is staring us in the face? I was thinking about this after an episode with my AS last night. He had *promised* up and down that he wasn't going to get his Xanax script filled this month. Had even put on a good show of firming up his Clinical Site so he can finish his degree, taking care of things, sticking around the house..showing no signs of using. I actually almost believed it could be true... I even let him use my car yesterday to go to the docs because I knew he needed a TB test to start at the hospital. I had previously told him not to expect a ride from me to his appt. because I wasn't having anything to do with him filling that script so he could abuse it.
Gosh, I don't know when I'll learn... Anyway, I come home last night and he's on the back porch with the light on...I just happen to walk in the kitchen and look out just as he's pouring his little peach Xanax pills out on the table..hmmm...bottle in hand...pills on table...let's do the math here..
He actually had the NERVE to tell me they weren't his?!..wth? Nope, didn't get my script filled..got these off of Bill to sell to Ted coz I need money to pay for a class I need to take. OOOOKAY. So let me see the bottle...nope, can't do that...my names not on there, but I don't want you to know who I got them off of. Good Lord..I just walked away shaking my head. It's just amazing to me that he would even for a second think I would buy that load of crap...

I do have one more question.... my friend and I have been tossing around the idea of contacting his Dr. and letting her know he is on Methadone, which I know for a fact he doesn't tell her. And letting her know that the 50 pills she scribes him every month are gone in a matter of days...like 2 days! I can't even imagine how anyone could survive taking that many Xanax! They are 5 mg., but still! What does everyone think of me writing an anonymous letter to his Dr. and do you think it will do any good at all? I know I can't control his using and all I can do is refuse to let his chaos ruin my life...and I'm working on that part with the help of my HP and setting boundary's that I am hoping I can enforce without too much drama..(so stinking SICK of drama). But letting her know he's keeping this from her may save his life and perhaps keep her from scribing these nasty things to him?
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:16 AM
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Well said, anvilhead.

It has been my experience that the disease of addiction is cunning and no matter how deep into it a person is, they still seem to understand that they can say the craziest things and still be right (not mention the ones that love them will believe it). It is the nature of the beast.

HurtBad, for now, the best thing you can do is to set boundaries and consequences that are healthy for you! Your son, will have to come to his own realizations about his disease, but until then you need to stick to "just the facts". . .you know that everyword spoken from your son's mouth is a lie. . .ask yourself "what can be done that will allow me to make healthy choices for myself?" It has been my experience that no matter how I want to lash out at the people who seemed to be enabling him unbeknowing to them (the docs, his employer, etc.) that recovery for my addict will not come as a result to my desires to shout from the highest point that he is getting over on all of them!

So, before writing that letter think. . .WHAT GOOD WILL COME OF IT?
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:04 PM
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Thanks for the responses....(Anvilhead..I'm the Mom, Dad wouldn't have been quite so restrained as to walk away) I guess I know in my gut that the letter won't make a lick of difference. I;ve found that when I can't decide whether to do something, it's usually my gut telling me not to do it. He is 24 years old, as he likes to remind me often, to which I respond..well then you should be out on your own and I wouldn't have to see you destroy yourself, you could do it in peace. He says as soon as he finishs his classes, he is going to get a wonderful job and be out in a month. That is going to be hard to do when every time you get a few extra dollars in your pocket you go out and buy Xanax from the junkies in town. But that is neither here nor there I suppose.

My boundaries that were set last time he pulled his Xanax binge thing were, use them again, you need to find somewhere else to live because I won't be part of the Chaos anymore. He did quit for a couple of weeks and life was sooo wonderful,,,things were really falling into place for him, got accepted at a clinical site...was actually ready to PASS the drug screen..he did all the footwork to set this up...I was actually thinking maybe, just maybe this is going to work out. Then he goes to his Dr. appointment (for a TB test) and comes home with a brand shiny new script. I know I have to enforce the boundary I set, but I also know that if I push it while he is high on those pills, it will turn ugly and drama will abound. I will wait until he runs out and when he is in his right mind we are going to tell him it's time for him to find somewhere else to stay. Last time I told him to leave in the middle of the chaos, he called my 80 year old mother and ask if he could stay there because mom and dad hate him, boo hoo hooo. Well, at least that opportunity gave me the chance to let mom know what's going on with him and the pills. He was embarrassed and ashamed that she knew, and came down off his high and made the resolution to quit taking those pills because they are ruining his life...ya think?? He even went to a couple of NA meetings on his own, was like his 'real' self for those precious few weeks and now...this again. I know..if nothing changes, nothing changes and I've been doing A LOT of praying for God to guide me. I KNOW I can't control him, but I lived the codie life for so long it's hard for me to do that turn around, although I'm coming along.

One more thing...has anyone ever stolen pills of their A just because then they would have that many less to do? I did that last night, and when he woke up this morning asking if I took them, I borrowed a page from his book and said...nope, didn't do it, you must have taken them and don't remember. Not sure if that was the right thing to do, but at the time he was passed out cold with that bottle sitting there and I just couldn't walk away and leave them for him to take today. Stupid move? or just useless?

I'm not sure if anyone here knows this, but is it even physically possible to take 20 5 mg. of Xanax a day and live to tell about it?
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:05 PM
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How does he manage to pay for his MD visits and script?

Is he employed? Insured? Whose policy?
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:10 PM
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I too wish to inform my partner's psych. that she is on methadone and abusing her klonopin script. However! I have done that before and it did nothing. The doctor just told me he couldn't even confirm if my gal was a patient of his or not, and never mentioned it to her (which is the professional and appropriate response). My gal, when I finally told her (months later) that I had informed her psych., said she was humiliated and angered, etc., and furthermore her therapist was "shocked" that I had done such a thing. However, my therapist said it wasn't totally unreasonable. Well, reasonable or not, it's pointless. In addition to her script, she buys them off the internet anyway, which is expensive but easy. Quite frustrating, but like anvilhead said, the only thing we really can control is our reactions and boundaries, etc.
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:11 PM
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Yeah, stealing pills from the addict is as effective as pouring out an alcoholic's beer. It will do nothing but **** them off and motivate them to get more (and hide it better next time).
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:10 PM
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How does he manage to pay for his MD visits and script?

Is he employed? Insured? Whose policy?
Well, he gets public assistance of course because he is on 'life sustaining medication'...i know, believe me..as much as I am grateful that he has health coverage, I dont' get it either..He works at a day labor company, and when he's 'straight' pays his bills, etc., when he's not the money goes to the guy down the street who's Dad has him sell his script out for him...nice, I know

let him go be a big boy, man up, sink or swim, fish or cut bait, get a dang life. OR carry on exactly as you are....i do NOT mean to sound harsh, only REAL...he's big enough to ride the rollercoaster all by himself now.......LET HIM.
I didn't think anything about your post was harsh...it's stuff I need to hear and I' am working hard to get to this point...I told my H tonite that when AS is in his right mind again we are going to sit down and have him think of options..because I truly can't do this anymore. I'm am 47 years old and this is when I should be enjoying my life...going out on the bike for the day and not worrying that S is ripping the house apart for aluminum to sell, hiding my damn car keys and wallet because when he is on the binge and runs out...all hell breaks loose. This has to end and I know it. I have reached the end of my rope. He (AS) was rambling tonite about taking his tent and living on the railroad tracks coz we want him to leave...I was like, ok..sounds like fun..do what ya gotta do. He's still here....

Ya know, I was reading on another post about how us parents have a hard time being 'tough' with our A's when we aren't pissed at them. I think that is why it's taken me soo long to get to this point. He can be sober, clean and a joy to be around for weeks at a time, we enjoy being around him and let that hope that 'this is it' creep in and then ... whammy...the monster returns. It's hard to make that turn around on a dime like they do. But the more I live with this, the more I see that it is the only way...letting him actually be a grown up. Cripes, when I was his age I was raising a 3 year old and pregnant with another! Sure I screwed up, I wasn't perfect...but H and I provided for the kids and knew when it was time for party time to stop and real life to begin...and isn't that how it is supposed to be???


In addition to her script, she buys them off the internet anyway, which is expensive but easy.
In retrospect I see this too...I took 8 of his pills..not doubt he is using the money he was suppose to use to pay for his drug screen to buy replacements...

Yeah, stealing pills from the addict is as effective as pouring out an alcoholic's beer. It will do nothing but **** them off and motivate them to get more (and hide it better next time).
You know what's funny? And not in a good way. When I got home this evening all he could think about was where were those pills??!! Like they are the most important thing in the world. No matter that he broke my last bit of faith in trust in him, no matter that he has turned into a monster in a matter of hours since he filled that script...nope. The pills that are missing are the center of his world right now. Amazing and sad...
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:38 AM
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I also find it darkly funny (and not in a good way)- to play a little trick on them and observe the reaction. One night, I knew my wife was shooting up in the bathroom, but I was feeling weak and unable to take any sort of stance, so I said, knock knock, I need to come in and pee. And the spoon was out on the shelf with everything in it, ready to go. So after I peed and stuff I just put the spoon into the toilet (wasting probably like one shot of hers) and didn't flush. I got a very mild chuckle from that, on top of the misery. And then I went back to bed, crying.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:40 AM
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HurtBad,

I'm sorry you are struggling.

As much as I fantasize about being able to let my 28 yr old son live with me (he is homeless.) I am really glad that it is not an option, I wouldn't want to have to face booting him out.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:56 AM
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I spent years hiding pills, flushing pills, trying to control pills. I found that all that did was cause me more pain and more stress. It never changed and never could change my AH's behavior. It took time for me to see that my AH does not process the world the way I do. His life is all about the next pill and the next great escape from reality. I hit a point that I would flush his pills so the abuse of me would end. So my world would go back to some place of peace. I was kidding myself even then. The peace was temporary. I had to cut the ties to start to heal and find peace for myself - which I deserve and so do you! I hope you and your whole family will find peace on your journey.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hurtbad2505 View Post


You know what's funny? And not in a good way. When I got home this evening all he could think about was where were those pills??!! Like they are the most important thing in the world.
This is NOT meant to be a joke but just to demonstrate how INSANE an addicts thinking is.

Remember the commerical from a dog's perspective, the dog is sniffing around saying "beggin strips, where are they, I smell beggin strips, BEGGIN STRIPS GOTTA HAVE IT". Then he FINALLY gets his beggin strips. The dog is totally possessed looking for those dang beggin strips......

Well that thought came to my mind whe you wrote about all he could think about was where were his pills. Its true thats all they CAN think about. Drugs are the most important thing in the world. For people who have never been addicted to drugs this is the hardest thing to understand. The compulsion to use drugs is NOT understandable by non addicts.
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Old 06-28-2009, 12:55 AM
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(((hurtbad)))) I do know how hard this is.

Sometimes, when I have been enabling my 22 year old meth addict daughter....feeling sorry for her - no place to live, no clothes, no place to take a shower, no job, no job history.... etc., etc., etc..... I try to remember that at 17, I moved out, got a job and bought my first house at age 20. My mom was doing as much by age 16, and my dad the same.

My kids PLAY on my vision of them as helpless children. Since they don't act like adults, I treat them like helpless children..... mostly because rescuing and "being there" gives me a great big MOMMY high. Hey, Look at me! See how kind I am? See how caring, how giving, how SELFESS I am?

Anyway... what I have been trying to do lately is to treat my kids like adults. Because they are. There is a whole generation of "kids" their age who have given up everything to go fight wars far away from family and comfort..... and they do just fine. My kids can go to the ends of the earth, shake money out of trees and get their drugs of choice.... so they can do the same for food, gas, housing and even nice shampoo and cream rinse.


This white knight is putting the horse in the barn.

Addiction is a disease that is primary, chronic.... and progressive.



(((hugs)))
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Old 06-28-2009, 01:35 AM
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When this mess all started with my exah, I was a mess, my body just shook, if I had to write something it looked like a pre-school child pretending to write. I went to the Dr and he gave me a presciption for zanax to help me calm down. They didn't get me high I just wanted to go night night. Not a good thing to have taken before I went to work. I ended up just breaking one in 1/2 before I went to bed at night and I would have a restfull sleep.

I just don't see where addicts get a high from them, or is it that if they mix it with something else? I wouldn't make a good addict, I would just be nighty night in a corner somewhere, or maybe it was because I was so shaken up.

I don't think there is anything wrong with giving the Dr heads up on what is going on, but where there is a will there is a way, they just find another source.

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Old 06-28-2009, 12:24 PM
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Big Sis

What a good post for me to read today!!!

I'm putting my horse in the barn too.....

Gotahavfaith
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:02 PM
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Thanks you guys..truly...It's been a hellish couple of days but I hope you all know that in the darkest moments I've remembered each and every response I've got. Thank you and praise Jesus for the support this site and you wonderful people give.

Last night he had his tent, lantern, etc. all packed up and ready to 'run away' with. For God's sake he is 24 years old!!! I can't tell you how much the support I have gotten here kept me calm and like..'hmmm, ok...want some hot dogs to pack in that cooler?'..lol It was so obvious when he was like...well, I'm glad you are so upset that I am leaving to live in the woods... (there are no woods around here). I just said something like..well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do....Needless to say, he never made it farther than the front porch and I went to bed...
Who knows, he is still here and sobering up..we will talk tomorrow and I will sleep peacefully tonite knowing that I am one step closer to reclaiming my own life...

One step at a time right?...thanks for the support and I'll keep you updated....

Have I mentioned lately that I HATE drugs???

'
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:08 PM
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Oh, and I did decide to call his Dr., whether it will do any good or not who knows..? I did find out from him that his DR. actually found out last week that he is in the Methadone maintanence program. Seems one of the nurses in the office was taking her Nephew there and say him coming out. Ok, Dr. wrote him the script anyway???... So I left a message tonight that I know she just recently found out that he was on methadone, but thought she should know that the script she writes him lasts him maybe three days and perhaps she should rethink refilling the script before something tragic happens. ... we will see what comes of it, but I am not getting my hopes up..at least I tried...
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:10 PM
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Wasting your time. I know it's hard, but it won't do any good to call the Dr. The other thing, your son telling you that the nurse saw him, that's probably BS if it's your son telling you it. He really isn't big on truth these days, it sounds like, and you should be aware that addicts lie about everything, even things that don't seem to matter. It's all part of the wonderful world of a junkie. But he prolly lied to you about the doc knowing so you wouldn't call, just in case you are trying to figure this game out and keep score (which is another big waste of your time and energy). Lay this burden down at the feet of the Lord.

Love,
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:12 PM
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I am so sorry for what you are dealing with! It hurts so much to hear time and time again Im not using... I swear! I hope you hang in there and everything works its way out for the better. I'll be praying for you
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:50 PM
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Thinking of you ..............


These are things that have helped me:


Remember those 3 C's... You can't change it, control it, or cure it.

Stay mad at the addiction, but love your son. Stay a part of the solution - not in the problem.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:44 AM
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Thanks for the support everyone. I am constantly repeating the Three C's and the Serenity Prayer when I find myself worrying about the state of AS's life. I do have a strong faith in God and am leaving it up to him to guide AS where he needs to be. I pray a lot that AS will open himself up to let his HP guide him, but it's not my job anymore. He is looking into housing and he knows it's time for him to leave the nest...the only thing I will do is to remind him that his time is up..
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