What to do when you have a reasonable suspicion of using?
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 108
What to do when you have a reasonable suspicion of using?
Excuse me while I rant for a minute. I'm pissed off because I seem to be living in the Twilight Zone in which any reasonable concern that DSD is using is considered "codependent behavior".
Here are the facts. DSD is a recovering addict. A few months ago she was fired from her job for stealing, though I didn't see much evidence of using at that time. We refused to pay her rent in ap apartment, so she moved home. Paying her rent and giving her an allowance in a place with no structure and no job to be at everyday would have been the height of enabling in our opinion.
Instead, she moved home. In the last two weeks, she has spent four nights each week away from home. She says she's with her boyfriend or with female friends. The problem is that when she isn't home, she sick as a dog when we see her. When she comes home she sleeps all day. When she spends the night here, she looks fine the next day. Also, she took money that had been given her for a parking ticket and instead spent it.
They had always said if she was using, we would know about it soon enough. I had always said that if she were using, we'd know it because when she uses, she's sick all the time. That's what's now happening.
As tactfully as I could, I brought up these concerns at our weekly family meeting. She vehemently denied it. (At one point she also vehemently denied lying about something only to admit she was lying a minute later.) The counselors basically told me I was being codependent and there was no evidence of her using.
At the end, I decided to hold out an olive branch and I said, "I'm sorry if I was overly suspicious." The counselor objected to my saying it that way. I was tired of the whole argument, so I said, "OK. I'm sorry THAT I was overly suspicious." I felt that I had been forced to apologize and I'm still pissed about it. I said what I meant. If she's not using, I'm sorry for the fuss. If she is, it's on her. Only she knows which is true.
I'm pissed about the whole thing. If she's using and we're paying all her bills and giving her a place to stay, we're enabling. I can't prove beyond any doubt that she's using, but I think my suspicion is reasonable. The counselors could have said, that they understood my concerns. They could have told her that she was partly responsible for the suspicions because she's acting in a way that would make people suspicious.
They keep saying that if she's using it will become apparent quickly. Well, if that doesn't mean staying out all night four nights per week and looking like crap when she gets home, what does it mean? Do we have to wait until we find drugs in her room? (Oh yeah. We're not supposed to enter her room when she's not there.) Does she have to turn up positive on a drug test? She's only getting tested once per week and she knows how to time things so she won't get caught.
Here are the facts. DSD is a recovering addict. A few months ago she was fired from her job for stealing, though I didn't see much evidence of using at that time. We refused to pay her rent in ap apartment, so she moved home. Paying her rent and giving her an allowance in a place with no structure and no job to be at everyday would have been the height of enabling in our opinion.
Instead, she moved home. In the last two weeks, she has spent four nights each week away from home. She says she's with her boyfriend or with female friends. The problem is that when she isn't home, she sick as a dog when we see her. When she comes home she sleeps all day. When she spends the night here, she looks fine the next day. Also, she took money that had been given her for a parking ticket and instead spent it.
They had always said if she was using, we would know about it soon enough. I had always said that if she were using, we'd know it because when she uses, she's sick all the time. That's what's now happening.
As tactfully as I could, I brought up these concerns at our weekly family meeting. She vehemently denied it. (At one point she also vehemently denied lying about something only to admit she was lying a minute later.) The counselors basically told me I was being codependent and there was no evidence of her using.
At the end, I decided to hold out an olive branch and I said, "I'm sorry if I was overly suspicious." The counselor objected to my saying it that way. I was tired of the whole argument, so I said, "OK. I'm sorry THAT I was overly suspicious." I felt that I had been forced to apologize and I'm still pissed about it. I said what I meant. If she's not using, I'm sorry for the fuss. If she is, it's on her. Only she knows which is true.
I'm pissed about the whole thing. If she's using and we're paying all her bills and giving her a place to stay, we're enabling. I can't prove beyond any doubt that she's using, but I think my suspicion is reasonable. The counselors could have said, that they understood my concerns. They could have told her that she was partly responsible for the suspicions because she's acting in a way that would make people suspicious.
They keep saying that if she's using it will become apparent quickly. Well, if that doesn't mean staying out all night four nights per week and looking like crap when she gets home, what does it mean? Do we have to wait until we find drugs in her room? (Oh yeah. We're not supposed to enter her room when she's not there.) Does she have to turn up positive on a drug test? She's only getting tested once per week and she knows how to time things so she won't get caught.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
First of all, I would ask, who's giving you all the rules? The counselor?
You're her parents...your the ones whose house she is living in. If it were me, I'd say, she's living under MY roof, so she has to live by MY rules. Given the fact that she's in recovery, I would think it's perfectly reasonable for you to say that as long as she lives there, you can search her room for drugs.
It certainly sounds suspicious to me. My ABF sleeps til 4p when he does coke the night before and feels like junk. He usually calls in sick to work. When he doesn't, he's fine the next day. So...I think you were not wrong to be suspicious!
You're her parents...your the ones whose house she is living in. If it were me, I'd say, she's living under MY roof, so she has to live by MY rules. Given the fact that she's in recovery, I would think it's perfectly reasonable for you to say that as long as she lives there, you can search her room for drugs.
It certainly sounds suspicious to me. My ABF sleeps til 4p when he does coke the night before and feels like junk. He usually calls in sick to work. When he doesn't, he's fine the next day. So...I think you were not wrong to be suspicious!
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
It's been my expereince that counselors who don't specialize in treating addiction know little about addiction and didn't do much to help. I recall very early on in my daughter's downward spiral when her first effort for "help" was to agree to go to a counselor (a general MSW). One night we had a family session and it was very apparent to me that she had used right before (opiates) The counselor was pretty much responding in a manner similar to how you described while I was looking over at my daughter watching her with the nods. It blew my mind and it was very hard for me not to question myself when a so called professional appeared to be believing her when she claimned to just be very tired.
It's also been my experience that some addiction counselors knew absolutely nothing about the family side of things and so their message may (or may not) have been helpful to the addict, but sure as heck wasn't helpful for me or the rest of the family. Recovering addicts who worked at treatment centers usually seemed to be most helpful - they knew addict behavior and also knew what the disease did to their families and tended to call it like they saw it. I know I am generalizing and I don't mean this to knock anyone - my point is simply that for me, I had to learn that just because they were counselors didn't mean they necessarily were experts, nor that they were "right."
I can certainly understand your frustration - From the outside looking in, the counselor's position does not seem to be helpful to either of you. I too believe your house, your rules and whether she is using or not, her actions certainly don't show that she is working hard to rebuild her life and should be afforded opportunities to continue to take advantage of you.
It's also been my experience that some addiction counselors knew absolutely nothing about the family side of things and so their message may (or may not) have been helpful to the addict, but sure as heck wasn't helpful for me or the rest of the family. Recovering addicts who worked at treatment centers usually seemed to be most helpful - they knew addict behavior and also knew what the disease did to their families and tended to call it like they saw it. I know I am generalizing and I don't mean this to knock anyone - my point is simply that for me, I had to learn that just because they were counselors didn't mean they necessarily were experts, nor that they were "right."
I can certainly understand your frustration - From the outside looking in, the counselor's position does not seem to be helpful to either of you. I too believe your house, your rules and whether she is using or not, her actions certainly don't show that she is working hard to rebuild her life and should be afforded opportunities to continue to take advantage of you.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
I'm pissed about the whole thing. If she's using and we're paying all her bills and giving her a place to stay, we're enabling.
I was thinking more about this. One thing I found with my oldest was that I was still enabling big time when I was paying bills and "helping" her out when she was not using. And I wasn't helping her. She could not regain a sense of self esteem and start healing while I was still coddling and cleaning up her messes - paying her fines, her bills so her credit wold not be ruined, etc. She made that mess based on her choices, and part of her recovery was to clean up her messes. It took time...she had to work hard and she had to call bill collectors and credit agencies and courts. But she started feeling a real sense of accomplishment because she did it...step by little step she cleaned things up. Today, three years later, she has a greeat job with a career path, benefits, a wonderful BF, a bachelor's degree she is pursuing on her own while working full time and a great sense of self worth and accomplishment. I know, as hard as it was to watch the struggle, that she would never have that if I was still paying her way.
So for me using or not using wasn't the issue. I needed to let her find her way with my love and support, but not with my checkbook.
A Brand New Life
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 287
Your house, your boundaries-period. What you are able to sanely deal with and live with is the bar-no less. It is a priveledge, not a right, that she is there. To be honest, going out should not be an option, you aren't a hotel. If you tell her she can work and come home period, she will get out sooner. My ex is still at his parents after 8 months. He has a job in sales, has wrecked his car, got a speeding ticket, done drugs and slept with women while they were away. They will take advantage because you are giving them the opportunity. If you are stressed, hand her a sandwich and send her on her way. Why do people continue to think these kids will die if they don't let them in? All it is to me is prolonging her rock bottom...sorry if that is harsh, but you don't want to go to your grave with her mooching off you?
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
For me, as a mom, the hard part about having a young adult who is an addict is the "leaving the nest" time.... 30 years ago, I was tugging at the bit - demanding to leave home at the first opportunity.
When it came time for MY kids... just the opposite. By staying in my home - they had food, transportation, phones, cable television, their own rooms and their own (shared with sibling) bathroom.
Hell,there was no way a studio apartment on a busline could match that! Of COURSE they fought to stay.
I agree with all above.... show her how much you trust her and untie the apron strings. Give her lots of encouragement, and no money. I regret few things, but not demonstrating by MY actions that I believed in my addict children kept them weak longer than necessary.
PS... my 22 addict daughter came into my workplace this week seeking gas to get her car home. I told her, seriously, that if she couldn't find daylabor that paid each day, and hadn't gotten a job by now, that maybe she could get gas by standing on the freeway exit with a sign? She would do that for drugs, so I figure she can do that for gas. It made her so ANGRY... but jeeze, she was back today with the same sad story about being out of gas.
Not giving money gets easier over time, and I do buy food and cigs for the kids on occassion.... just no cash. Makes 'em tough.
d
When it came time for MY kids... just the opposite. By staying in my home - they had food, transportation, phones, cable television, their own rooms and their own (shared with sibling) bathroom.
Hell,there was no way a studio apartment on a busline could match that! Of COURSE they fought to stay.
I agree with all above.... show her how much you trust her and untie the apron strings. Give her lots of encouragement, and no money. I regret few things, but not demonstrating by MY actions that I believed in my addict children kept them weak longer than necessary.
PS... my 22 addict daughter came into my workplace this week seeking gas to get her car home. I told her, seriously, that if she couldn't find daylabor that paid each day, and hadn't gotten a job by now, that maybe she could get gas by standing on the freeway exit with a sign? She would do that for drugs, so I figure she can do that for gas. It made her so ANGRY... but jeeze, she was back today with the same sad story about being out of gas.
Not giving money gets easier over time, and I do buy food and cigs for the kids on occassion.... just no cash. Makes 'em tough.
d
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: buffalo ny
Posts: 167
"It's been my experience that counselors who don't specialize in treating addiction know little about addiction and didn't do much to help. "
OH YEAH. And it is amazing to me (a Licensed Clinical Social Worker) how many mental health counselors know little about addiction, and addiction counselors know nothing about mental health issues, and the Medical Profession knows little about mh or addiction.
When my husband relapsed, I went to see a woman who specialized in addictions. She looked at me blankly when I started to talk about the feelings of anxiety and depression I was having.
My advice for anyone who is looking for counseling is to ask questions before making that first appt. Don't assume because someone is licensed to practice that s/he can help you.
OH YEAH. And it is amazing to me (a Licensed Clinical Social Worker) how many mental health counselors know little about addiction, and addiction counselors know nothing about mental health issues, and the Medical Profession knows little about mh or addiction.
When my husband relapsed, I went to see a woman who specialized in addictions. She looked at me blankly when I started to talk about the feelings of anxiety and depression I was having.
My advice for anyone who is looking for counseling is to ask questions before making that first appt. Don't assume because someone is licensed to practice that s/he can help you.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by SoberAndy 
In the last two weeks, she has spent four nights each week away from home. She says she's with her boyfriend or with female friends. The problem is that when she isn't home, she sick as a dog when we see her. When she comes home she sleeps all day.
I have a 21 year old daughter still at home. She holds down two jobs during the school year, and one during the summer. She's making payments on her own car, insurance payments, and any other financial obligations she has.
She may legally be an adult, but it's my house and my rules, and she knows it.
I am not a bed and breakfast. She got ticketed for a minor in possession a few weeks before her 21st birthday, and the diversion fee, alcohol classes, and fine are all on her.
Currently your AD has no reason to do different. She comes and goes as she pleases, sleeps all day when she's there, and isn't working.
If nothing changes, nothing changes.
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: buffalo ny
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by greeteachday
So for me using or not using wasn't the issue. I needed to let her find her way with my love and support, but not with my checkbook.
moved in with me and my husband and I let him stay on after my husband left. For 2 years (was supposed to be temporary, until he got on his feet). I really love this kid (26 years old) . His family treated him like crap because he didn't follow the family formula of working in a factory for 40 years and then dying. He is a musician, and a really good one. I truly thought that with my love and support I would help him. AND I DID. I didn't effect his drinking and pot use one bit, but everyone one who knew him, INCLUDING his mother, told me how much his self esteem and mood had improved since living with me.
BUT....I had to kick him out of the house so he could move on. We used to joke about him being a 35 year old man and living in my basement. He even wrote a very funny short story about it. However, as soon as he did move out, and I told him to leave, he got very serious about his music, joined an up and coming band, and just came back from a 10 city tour. (Head banging music...ewww). Oh, he still drinks and uses drugs.
ANYWAY... every kid has to leave the nest. And addicts have to take responsibility for themselves to get better, or not.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Barb: hahahaha - that was way too funny
I think first off i might get a new counselor - another thing is it is up to her to earn back your trust not the other way around. SHE is the one who broke trust in the beginning so she does have to answer. Besides she is living in your home - your providing support and if some counselor thinks you dont have the right to ask her if she is using then that counselor is not the right one. From what you say it sounds to me like she's hungover.
Even if she had never used anything a parent still has the right to ask questions.
The counselor sounds a bit on the enabling side to me - she basically just backed her up and that's kinda stepping over the line. personally i get irked at the touchy-feely counselors - this is a dark world they are in and me mincing words doesnt help the situation at all.
I think first off i might get a new counselor - another thing is it is up to her to earn back your trust not the other way around. SHE is the one who broke trust in the beginning so she does have to answer. Besides she is living in your home - your providing support and if some counselor thinks you dont have the right to ask her if she is using then that counselor is not the right one. From what you say it sounds to me like she's hungover.
Even if she had never used anything a parent still has the right to ask questions.
The counselor sounds a bit on the enabling side to me - she basically just backed her up and that's kinda stepping over the line. personally i get irked at the touchy-feely counselors - this is a dark world they are in and me mincing words doesnt help the situation at all.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Soberandy)))
I'm a recovering addict, and thanks to MY consequences, am living at home at an age much older than your dsd. However, I am expected to pay rent and my own bills. If I don't, well...I better find another place to stay.
When I relapsed, my dad did got me out of the immediate financial bind I got myself into...however, I was working again within 2 weeks, every available hour I could and had paid him back, in full, within 6 weeks.
We addicts are very resourceful, and when our backs are up against the wall, we can do amazing things. We can find drugs, if that's what we really want, or we can find recovery and all that entails, which includes jobs and responsibility, if that's what we really want.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I'm a recovering addict, and thanks to MY consequences, am living at home at an age much older than your dsd. However, I am expected to pay rent and my own bills. If I don't, well...I better find another place to stay.
When I relapsed, my dad did got me out of the immediate financial bind I got myself into...however, I was working again within 2 weeks, every available hour I could and had paid him back, in full, within 6 weeks.
We addicts are very resourceful, and when our backs are up against the wall, we can do amazing things. We can find drugs, if that's what we really want, or we can find recovery and all that entails, which includes jobs and responsibility, if that's what we really want.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 108
Thanks for the messages. It's now clear to me we haven't been strict enough. After she lost her job, she says she looked for another but wasn't able to find one in this economy. (It's possible. I see absolutely nothing on Craigslist that she would be qualified for. Six months ago there were a lot of help wanted signs in the local stores and coffee shops. Now there are none.)
She is taking classes at the local college. The original allowance was $100 per week. Her mom raised it without consulting me and gave her extra money for the parking ticket without consulting me. Maybe she shouldn't have, but the fact that she didn't spend the parking ticket money the way she was supposed to served as a wake-up call to us, so it was useful.
The mind-boggling thing about the counselors is they are highly experienced and in the past have usually given good advice, but this time they all but said that she's not using and it's us who are being overly suspicious.
Thanks. I now know that I not only have to change my own actions, but my attitude. Her car is in our name, and it will be taken away today. I will not allow her to drive while using. If she's not using, she's still driving in the middle of the night while exhausted and we will not tolerate that either. The car is now gone. We have great public transit in the city where we live.
Her mom has agreed not to give her extra money or buy her things. If DSD whines about needing more money, the response will be, "If you want more money, find a job."
She is taking classes at the local college. The original allowance was $100 per week. Her mom raised it without consulting me and gave her extra money for the parking ticket without consulting me. Maybe she shouldn't have, but the fact that she didn't spend the parking ticket money the way she was supposed to served as a wake-up call to us, so it was useful.
The mind-boggling thing about the counselors is they are highly experienced and in the past have usually given good advice, but this time they all but said that she's not using and it's us who are being overly suspicious.
Thanks. I now know that I not only have to change my own actions, but my attitude. Her car is in our name, and it will be taken away today. I will not allow her to drive while using. If she's not using, she's still driving in the middle of the night while exhausted and we will not tolerate that either. The car is now gone. We have great public transit in the city where we live.
Her mom has agreed not to give her extra money or buy her things. If DSD whines about needing more money, the response will be, "If you want more money, find a job."
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
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Originally Posted by SoberAndy
If she's using and we're paying all her bills and giving her a place to stay, we're enabling.
It also sounds like this counselor has not got a clue about addiction.
If you really want to know, do a multi-panel hair test. Then what?
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 64
I find that if my partner gets mad at me for being *suspicious* it means she is still using and probably high at that moment. In her sober, clean state, she understands why I would be suspicious.... after having subjected me to so many extremely well crafted lies and some pathetic lies too, which would be almost laughable if this was not real life. for instance, many lies about having to go #2... like 8 times a night? Those are some serious runs. I'm sorry, please don't anyone be offended. I just really do not think it's appropriate for an addict to be angry at people for suspecting them, especially when they're acting all drugged out.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I think making her take a drug test, or like I said before, searching her room for drugs, is entirely reasonable.
I watched that show "celebrity rehab-sober house"-and they gave the recovering addicts way more rules than you're giving your daughter. She's effectively in a sober house living with you--the people who run those houses have those rules for good reason.
I watched that show "celebrity rehab-sober house"-and they gave the recovering addicts way more rules than you're giving your daughter. She's effectively in a sober house living with you--the people who run those houses have those rules for good reason.
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