KariSue

Assuming you ever really were.....

My guess would be if it just gets insane and unmanageable and you're pulling yourself down to try and help someone else. In other words, if it's making you miserable.

I guess the reason I'm asking is because I read that relapses are not only common but almost inevitable with addiction yet some people do seem to get (if not cured) at least manage it for life. In other words, some people recover.

I suppose I and others 'hang in there' thinking that recovery is just around the corner. Yet, we don't really know if it is.

So is the best approach always "hands off" and let what will be...be. Or go with your gut and you'll just know. (I feel like I will know). Or what?

It just seems like almost every post here says, in essence, "leave the bum" but aren't there any success stories? OR, is "leaving the bum" (my words, addicts are not really bums) a way to help him? Yes, sometimes it may be but then how do you really know when to quit?

I hope this makes sense. As I read it back to myself I'm not sure.

Kari

winnie12

I think you stop helping when its detrimental to your own health and sanity. I keep hearing people say that all they hear is stuff like leave the bum but i just dont see that - i think sometimes we get overly sensitive because our head is telling us that we shouldnt be putting ourselves through this but our heart doesnt want to give up.

I think what everyone is really trying to say is that if its destroying you then you have to decide whether or not to leave. I cant leave my addict - he is a minor child but i have detached and let him deal with his own problems and his own consequences. I am working on myself so that i am not manipulated and so that i find my own peace and joy no matter what he does.

Freedom1990

I'm going to give you the addict's view on people helping the addicts in their lives.

I went through a 30 day rehab back in 1986. I knew that going back home was not an option for me as I was married to an active addict who was violent.

Shortly before I was to get out of rehab, my counselor offered to let me (and my then only 8 year old daughter) stay with her and her husband until I got on my feet.

I took her up on the offer. I hit the pavement running right after rehab to find a job. Within a week I was employed full-time as a nurses aid.

About a month later the counselor and her hubby found a rental they liked better, we all went to talk to their current landlord to see if he'd agree to continue renting the house to me.

He agreed, and I was on my own, as a single parent raising a daughter, working full-time, attending meetings, aftercare at the rehab, and doing what I needed to do.

My counselor's helping hand at the time was a Godsend for me. It gave me the opportunity to start a new life elsewhere, far away from the crazy addict husband.

After 4 years clean/sober, I made the conscious choice to drink again, and I was 'out there' for two long miserable and hellish months.

I drug my pathetic carcass back up the steps to the AA hall and started over again. There was no helping hand that time, and to be honest, I am thankful for that. I had to face the consequences of my choice to drink again.

This August, God willing, I will celebrate 19 years clean/sober. Relapse is not a given, relapse is not required. Relapse is a choice.

Abundance

Yeah...... I have to agree. I think we know when to stop helping when we hit our own bottom. When "OUR" life becomes unmanageable in the process. The very idea of "helping" someone..... ANYONE.... in active addiction with as much energy as I did in the past seems totally daunting. Like... just thinking about doing that takes up way too much energy.

The thing is..... and the ironic thing taboot..... is that WHEN we stop helping... is when they have to be accountable for themselves...... and the chances of them cleaning up are far greater! BUT.... it took me coming here and doing al-anon to figure that one out.

I then had to go through the pain of forgiving myself for hurting when I thought I was helping!

Now - that is just manifesting in a whole new light........ but I guess that means progress not perfection!

Anywho - yeah.... you'll know...... when YOU know!

KariSue

I'm working at that now. I mean working on myself so I'm happy whether he quits or not. Of course, I'd be a lot happier if he'd quit but you know what I mean.

Thanks, your answer helped!

Kari

lovelylady

perhaps- by wanting a relationship with another adult we are putting out demands , to give love, and or receive it.
If an addict needs to address what has led them into addiction they are going to need every morsel of emotional energy to concentrate on themselves. They don't need any other emotional demands on them than this.
The kindest thing their loved ones can do is give them back themselves to do this, and take our own demands out of the picture- our want to help, to care, to be involved, to love and be loved - whatever- because these things are demands too and have expectation, however small ( whichever crumb we will sttle for!)
The benefit here, is getting the emotional time to yrself to look at yr own emotional picture. Not throwing it into someone elses mix.

I am really really new to this, and feeling my way. newly going no contact and coping with lots of fear, worry, pain at doing so . ( mainly, at this point about my abf health/life- he is not immortal, despite him being convinced and has thrown so much gear into himself, its ticking- but his choice).

But this is just how I see it right now, and am trying to make headway and demand / judge nothing of anyone .

It doesn't seem about quitting. Just about living better.

love.

BBD

I HELPED my addicted son in so many ways I could just choke myself now. Thank Goodness when he went to rehab I went to counciling and found this place. I had been paying rent, utility bills, buying food, clothing with the thoughts that he just wasn't getting enough jobs. He's a contractor so pay is different weekly. What a mess I was. NEVER again~~~~~I now buy socks and things for him when I want too. As far as I know he is now clean and we do see him alot. If he was fooling around he wouldn't be here as often as he is....Smiles, Bonnie

KariSue

Well to me helping means to give only if he is not using. The same as I would help any of my relatives if I was able and they needed it. That includes letting someone live with me if I have the room, feeding them, etc. but only if they were helping themselves also or doing their best to, in my opinion. Also, only if they had a plan in place to stop living with me at some point. The other thing is if they were pulling their weight around here with housework, etc.

It's really complicated in our case but the bottom line is that while he was doing drugs while living here neither his wife or myself or my husband knew he was. Now that I know what to look for, I can tell if he is on them (or be pretty sure) but then we just didn't know. Also, they didn't always live with us. Just off and on. Mostly he was working but lately not. (although it's his 2nd week on a new job now and it seems to be working out...thank goodness).

I was wondering why it was taking so long for them to save up money to move. Well now I know it was because he was using the money he made on drugs and she was spending like there was no tomorrow. She hid her spending pretty well too, btw.

I'm just finally now figuring all this out and putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. All this time I thought we had the same goals in mind. Saving to leave.... After being so dumb, I'm at least starting to smarten up a wee bit. It's about time!!!! Duh....

He has now made a plan and cleared it with us. If he doesn't deliver, he is O.U.T. The grandkids can stay here but I may even tell them to take their children and find a solution. As long as the children are not in danger and are taken care of (and I know they will be), maybe I am enabling even taking care of them. I dunno. It's all a big swirling mess at the moment and I'm trying to sort it out. I'm just hoping he will stick to his deal so I don't have to think about the alternative.

KariSue

P.S. As always, I look forward to your input. You're not perfect are you? cause you always seem to say what I know is the truth even if I'm not doing it. AND, I know I'm not doing it. I am trying to work on that now though. Right now with my son and daughter in law I'm feeling like "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Freedom1990

Before my youngest came home from foster care, we had a behavioral contract in place that she had to agree to and sign, or she wasn't coming home.

That contract also had a clause at the bottom that said I was free to redefine boundaries at any given time as I saw fit!

KariSue

No, there is not a real reason the mother is not more involved. I think she's a decent person and loves the children but I think she is pretty immature and somewhat of a princess type (spoiled and the world revolves around her; and this was even before she knew he did drugs). I just think she needs to grow up a bit. Her first son is 9 and I'm not sure what happened but his dad was never in the picture. She refers to him as a sperm donor although he wasn't! So my son is this child's stepfather. Then she had a daughter who is my biological granddaughter. I treat them both the same though. So does my son. It's not the little boy's fault and he adores my son and my son is the only daddy he's ever known.

I think she's less involved with the kids because she had kids so soon. She's also had one abortion in that mix. It would have been my son's first child and my son left her after that because he didn't approve of abortion and didn't want her to have it. Then they got back together and when she got pregnant again, she kept it and they got married. Soap opera stuff, huh?

But I think her main problem is that she never really got to be single. Just bam, bam, bam with babies. She's in her partying phase right now although she is generally responsible. I think she is just a bit resentful that she is kind of stuck with kids but she loves them. That's my take anyway. Also, as my husband, says she seems not to know how to be a partner. She grew up in a broken home also. So yes, my son's addiction would have been hard to bear for anyone and I give her credit for sticking it out longer than most might have. But with her issues and his issues, it's pretty much a mess. Although.....Sunday when I came home from the grocery I found them sitting on the couch (she had just brought the children home) and they were laughing and getting along. I HATE feeling like I'm in the middle of someone else's life! Sheesh! So now, I'm trying to facilitate everybody leaving. I know it will be a while yet. I really do like your time limit idea. I think I'll do it.

As far as her leaving her children here with us and our son is because of her financial problems she is living with a friend and I'm not sure the friend would welcome children. Also, her own parents (both divorced and remarried) claim they have no room for her. I think they are tired of her antics with the first dad and want her to stand on her own two feet. Just my guess though. They just claim they don't have room. They probably do though. I've been in one house. It's small but they could do it if they really wanted to.

She also knows that the kids adore their dad and that he is a great dad in general. She also knows my husband and I are here as backups and she trusts us.

Whew, so that's my story.

KariSue

P.S. I'm not sure she bailed cause he was an addict. He's been sober for a year. Then, he couldn't find a job. I think she was just feeling like this was never gonna end. Then she met a guy "friend". So do the math.... She swears he is just a friend but, of course, my son thinks differently. At the moment, I'm not sure if he is even in the picture anymore.

Soooo, what should I name my personal soap opera? Somebody Elses Life to Live? (since I feel like I'm stuck inside somebody elses life?)

KariSue

I like that clause!

KariSue

KariSue

Haha, that's a good one too!

The Young and the Restless Won't Leave....Lol!

KariSue