Love

Old 05-31-2009, 12:23 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
itisatruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
Love

So I saw a movie and it got me thinking/crying.....how sad is that???!!!

Do I even know what love is???

Met S. when I was fifteen. He had a nice truck with a bumpin' sound system, pink hair, wore makeup when he went out to the clubs, and had lots of friends. What did I know - sounded cool at the time. It was fun to have a boyfriend. And he was fun.

Until....

The first time my mom met his mom, his mom said, "yeah (my husband) used to hit me, but it was my fault, I didn't shut up."

WOW. What a red flag!!! But I ignored it - or didn't give it the weight I should have, and neither did my mom.

4 years later -- a beautiful son -- and an abusive relationship.

Around 7 years later I met (AH). He was in recovery, was honest about his past, and told me I deserved better. I knew I did. When my son told me he didn't like his dad I knew it was time past time. I left. I called (AH).

He was kind, loving, giving. He drove me to court when I had to get a restraining order. He waited for me in the parking lot after work to make sure I was safe. He was a good father figure to my son (months later). I finally felt loved and safe.

Fast forward to now...past all the relapses, all the ups and downs, and into me trying to find myself and 'recover'. I feel pretty good about me....yet....

I'm honestly not sure I know what love is....in a man/woman relationship. I want love, I yearn for it...and I love AH....just not in the way I feel I should. Will it come back? Was it ever really there in the first place??

My AH has been home a while now - working on staying off pills -- while I work on me.

The thing is...we just coexist. He sees what he wants to see: us still in love and working things out. I see a fractured relationship that I'm not sure about - no matter how many dishes he does. I feel more like a best friend than a wife. He thinks the world of me and I feel sorry for him....and that makes me feel so bad...

I'm 40 and feel pathetic because I stayed in two relationships for the wrong reasons. I'm forty and have known only these two relationships!

Where do I go from here? I go to Alanon meetings. I take care of myself. I keep my focus on my life and what's important to me. But where am I going now????

I think some of this has to do with the fact that my job is uncertain for next year. I may be unemployed as of June 19. So the feelings of being unable to support myself are there - but also that I know - even though I have not acted on it yet - that being alone and happy is better than being with someone for the wrong reasons.

Sigh. Not there yet....
itisatruth is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 02:16 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
bluejay6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
Another nightowl here, to send you a hug and to tell you I do know what you mean.....

I notice you didn't have any "solitary" time between the pink-haired first H and the recovering (mostly) second H. When you describe second AH as someone who was protective of you, good to your son, and a shelter in the storm you were living, I thought, "Well, of course she would love him. He is doing loving things and is a lovable man."

But wrapping up with someone because we feel small and alone doesn't always give us an authentic intimate passionate love, does it?

I was with someone for 15 years and he was my best friend and we almost never argued and life wasn't so scary, knowing I had him to live it with.

But I knew he wasn't the one. I thought feelings of kindness and companionship and concern would be enough. I was ready to settle for that for a lifetime, because it at least was not painful.

We ended, though, because behind closed doors, he was becoming an alcoholic and I hadn't any idea. It changed him. And we let go of each other, friends no more.

Then I met the love of my life. And I realized I had buried so much of my true passionate profound womanhood during the 15 years I had been living life with my former "best friend."

I felt the difference and it stunned me.

I don't have any advice for you, truth, just wanted you to know that I hear you and understand. I hope you find your answers.

The love of my life is gone now. Relapse. But I did experience the woman I can be with a man, and hope to find again.

All the very best to you.
bluejay6 is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 04:45 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
the girl can't help it
 
splendra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
To me we are made of love. We create the drama that we live. When love ebbs we might walk out to meet it or we can wait for the high tide to come and wash over us.
splendra is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 05:36 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
lightseeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,691
I'm with you on this thought. I'm also with Splendra in the answer. I've found that it's not who you are with that defines "love" but the openness that love is embraced in your life. I've spent decades believing that I was simply with the wrong person and that the type of love I deserved was "out there" but with someone else that I had just not found yet. I've finally discovered that it is not so much who you are with but what you bring to the table. That is....in a sober relationship. In active addiction, all bets are off. In active addiction relationships tend to be more hostage situations than love situations.

I've noticed a tendency for my nervous system to be set at a high idle in terms of chaos and drama. It's taken me a long time (and I'm still working on that) to let go of drama and chaos to be what it takes to feel an emotion. I'm working hard to reset my new normal. When things change and the constant conflict of addiction (or whatever) subsides then it can almost feel boring. I can get anxious waiting for the other shoe to fall and then I'll subconsciously find an "issue", bring it to the table, cause conflict, and then get my fix for chaos.

How long am I going to spend starting over? I'm in the process of still figuring this all out so I know that I don't have any answers. But.....I do believe that Splendra is right....walk out into the world to meet that love. I just have to remember that love probably isn't the idea that I've made up in my head and that walking out doesn't mean out of a relationship nessisarily.
lightseeker is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 09:18 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
it's a movie, you're the star
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 355
Thanks so much for this post!
I have been in love twice with two people who did not deserve me at all.
I have two choices: 1) dwell on my mistakes and past heartache. OR 2) cherish the good things I remember from these 2 men and move on, focusing on what I have to offer to someone who IS deserving of me and my love.

I hope you choose number 2 as well
123bubblegum123 is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 10:05 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
itisatruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by bluejay6 View Post
Another nightowl here, to send you a hug and to tell you I do know what you mean.....

I notice you didn't have any "solitary" time between the pink-haired first H and the recovering (mostly) second H. When you describe second AH as someone who was protective of you, good to your son, and a shelter in the storm you were living, I thought, "Well, of course she would love him. He is doing loving things and is a lovable man."
We were up late last night!

You're right - I didn't take anytime to deal with what I'd been through. I got caught up in the moment, caught up with love/lust/being treated better than I had been. I knew nothing of addiction or where it could lead. I just didn't want to blow a chance with someone who I thought was perfect. And he was pretty wonderful for a while there.

For a while I kind of felt indebted to him for helping me through that time. I know that staying because I feel like I owe him something is a mistake.

Had I taken my time to heal, learned more about myself, and gotten to know him better, I may have made different choices. I may not have. Who knows. But I do think that this will come down to a choice.....I will have to recommit to the marriage or I will need to walk away. And this is only if he stays off the pills and finds recovery again.

Thanks Bluejay. You sound like you've done much in the way of your own growth and I hope you find someone to share that with.
itisatruth is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 10:13 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
itisatruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by splendra View Post
To me we are made of love. We create the drama that we live. When love ebbs we might walk out to meet it or we can wait for the high tide to come and wash over us.
That's beautiful way to put it. Of all things in life - money, cars, houses, things, LOVE is really what it's all about. And it comes in so many forms. Loving ourselves, children, family, friends, life. I know I will need to make a choice because I really don't like living the drama.
itisatruth is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 10:37 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
itisatruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by lightseeker View Post
I'm with you on this thought. I'm also with Splendra in the answer. I've found that it's not who you are with that defines "love" but the openness that love is embraced in your life. I've spent decades believing that I was simply with the wrong person and that the type of love I deserved was "out there" but with someone else that I had just not found yet. I've finally discovered that it is not so much who you are with but what you bring to the table. That is....in a sober relationship. In active addiction, all bets are off. In active addiction relationships tend to be more hostage situations than love situations.

I've noticed a tendency for my nervous system to be set at a high idle in terms of chaos and drama. It's taken me a long time (and I'm still working on that) to let go of drama and chaos to be what it takes to feel an emotion. I'm working hard to reset my new normal. When things change and the constant conflict of addiction (or whatever) subsides then it can almost feel boring. I can get anxious waiting for the other shoe to fall and then I'll subconsciously find an "issue", bring it to the table, cause conflict, and then get my fix for chaos.

How long am I going to spend starting over? I'm in the process of still figuring this all out so I know that I don't have any answers. But.....I do believe that Splendra is right....walk out into the world to meet that love. I just have to remember that love probably isn't the idea that I've made up in my head and that walking out doesn't mean out of a relationship nessisarily.
It's not a Hollywood movie is it. When we got married, we went to marriage counseling and a really great retreat with couples who had been married for a long time. One main theme was that we should not expect marriage to be a fairy tale or to count on it solely for happiness. We aren't meant to fix/fulfill the other person so much as enhance each others lives. It really is a partnership - and what each member brings to the table is integral to whether or not a couple can find a joint happiness. I guess neither one of us is bringing much to the table at this point.

I've carried that idea of the ideal being "out there" too and that I just married the wrong person. I realize now how that could get me right back into another less than ideal situation.

The chaos you mention was my life too for several years. This past year has been one of growth for me and I'm learning to enjoy life again and embrace the calm as I once did. But sometimes I cause arguments too -- and until you wrote that I didn't know why. Thank you. Makes total sense. We lived the drama - the roller coaster - for so long it BECAME our marriage for a time. Wow - if we stay together we have a LOT of healing and rebuilding to do.

I think trust is another major issue. I don't want to give until I see action on his part first. Hmmm.

It scares me how much damage I did to my health because I lived in a high-stress state for so long.

Active addiction means all bets are off! Don't ever want to live like that again!
itisatruth is offline  
Old 05-31-2009, 11:33 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
 
Zencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,691
Originally Posted by itisatruth View Post
think trust is another major issue. I don't want to give until I see action on his part first. Hmmm.

It scares me how much damage I did to my health because I lived in a high-stress state for so long.

Active addiction means all bets are off! Don't ever want to live like that again!
Relationships...on a high power fail...when all expectations preclude trust.
Zencat is offline  
Old 06-01-2009, 02:12 AM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: london
Posts: 30
I am finding this thread helpful-- difficult, because there are things in here that mirror. It is incredible how wise you ladies are at explaining yourselves. Hearing these things said is helping loosen some of the knots and pain of what I have been putting myself through. I have found it hard to let go of abf, because I felt more passionate, womanly, alive in that relationship, as the addiction escalated I felt ashamed that I was in such an abusive place, and still taking it....... it felt very high stakes, and that is alot of pressure on both parts - very unhealthy. Strangely , it didn't feel like LOVE , which I have felt purely, in the past- it was when my children were born, with their dad - it felt honest and trusting, that was about giving and belonging to a bigger unit. But that love did nothing for my sexuality/sensuality/motivation/drive/ambition.....and the relationship with abf triggered all those. Don't know WHAT THAT is all about...... am going to need to do alot of looking before I inflict myself on anyone else !
lovelylady is offline  
Old 06-01-2009, 08:18 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
bluejay6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
LL, I know what you're saying. We do have to be really careful that we are not so "intoxicated" by the initial overwhelming feelings that we mistake romantic intensity for sustaining, deep love. I think that with many addicts, we unconsciously realize so much is at stake, so much is intense, because the addict himself--or herself--is living at the edge of life and death. I think we can pick up that feeling of "now or never" when we are with them, and everything intensifies, the way it does when women and men are living in times of war. The bonding is much more dramatic.

For myself, the passion I felt was not about sexuality but about the feeling that for THIS man, I would walk through fire. Swim the seven seas. I would fight for him, and for us, because I felt so BLESSED to know him. Anne Bancroft once said of her husband Mel Brooks that even after years and years of marriage, when she heard his key in the door, her heart leaped with happiness. And I knew I had found the man I would feel that for.

Sadly, fighting for love will not help an addict who is drowning in his own addiction. We have to let go. To enable his addiction by continuing to live with it--no consequences--is not love. It is an acquiescence to the demon that is destroying him.

Good thread here. Thank you.
bluejay6 is offline  
Old 06-01-2009, 11:36 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
Abundance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,307
Truth - my ten year old has had a major crush on this girl for nearly 3 years. They were in a play together and they played husband/wife. He was OVER THE MOON! Anyway - he told me last night that he is going to be her SECOND husband! Oh boy!

Anywho - I totally relate to so much of this. If I look at my second marriage - as a fairy tale - him "rescuing" me from the EXAH...... and la la la from there. But the thing is.... we divorced. And his parting words were..... "If only I was problematic or had an addiction or something of the like - you probably would have loved me as much as I loved you." OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

And NOW.... with my guy - when things aren't revolving around addiction .... I do find myself looking for the chaos. It's as though - serenity begins and I fight it!

I don't know- I think keeping the walls up so that we can truly love ourselves and then feeling inner security to let them down - is where it is. I tend to pre-maturely let those walls down. Or I'm looking outward for me to feel good about myself- but it HAS to come from within.

Good thread.

Anvil - what you wrote - is the place I want to be.
Abundance is offline  
Old 06-01-2009, 01:19 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: london
Posts: 30
ANvil, I agree. I had such a thing once....I had so much freedom and acceptance given to me that I walked straight out!!!!! I gave him the freedom too and acceptance , and after 20 years of gentle safe mutually respectful love we got LAZY with the freedom and acceptance we gave each other mistook it for not giving a damn about the other aslong as they gave you an easy life - - there was no chaos, little passion, alot of feeling comfortable.

Walked out of that into coke hell.
Must need a lobotomy.
lovelylady is offline  
Old 06-01-2009, 04:13 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
When I was a freshman in college I took an aesthetics (philosophy of beauty) class. And at one point the professor told us that when we truly recognize and appreciate something as "beautiful" we do not desire to own it or possess it or change it in anyway, but rather intensely desire just that it be just what and as it is and feel that it is an almost overwhelming honor and gift just be be able to be in its presence.

I've always remembered that, and, to me, it seems, really, to be what true "love" is about...but, obviously, that is an ideal to strive toward, not the nuts and bolts of everyday life....but it does kinda go along with the Al Anon idea that the only true way to respect the dignity and freedom of another person is to accept that person as who they really are, even if that means that we can no longer have him/her in our lives.

In the rooms I've heard a lot of people say that they've realized that what they thought was love (and what they were taught in their families of origin was "love") they now realize was some combination of obligation, duty, and/or a fear-based desire to control for selfish reasons. That's kinda interesting -- in a very weird way -- because it's like pretty much the exact opposite of the aesthetics thing.

freya
freya is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 01:40 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sebastion
Posts: 41
Wow, I can really relate to all this. I recently thought I was in love with someone,until he said he wanted to date other women. He was married for 38 years to one woman and then I came into the picture. The only thing I did not see was the fact that he too was a heavy drinker. He was a beautiful man in many ways but he wanted to expierience dating.I was shattered when he said that and cried for 7 days until we got together once again for just 2 days. This went on for 3 more weeks. On and off on and off. He started with the Scotch and that was it for me. I am not sure where all this love I had for him went. Then I met the second man 1 week later and I started thinking wow this guy is awesome. A Handsome , funny, rekindleing his life with his kids and grandchildren.Then the bomb fell out from under me. He tells me after a few dates that he is a recovering addict for 3 years now and that he would prefer dating some one in recovery. I had had a few drinks in front of him and was not something he can handle. said I would not drink, but he insisted that I should not have to change for him and that I should be able to have a drink if I so desired. I would of never drank again if that is want he needed to stay clean. I so understand that now. Since then I have started attending Al-anon again and after a week off not hearing from him he called to say Hello andasked How was I doing. We had a great conversation I thanked him. I thanked him because if were not for him I am not sure if I would of returned to the Al-anon program just yet. I may have met more wrong guys and would of had lots of chaos and no serendity too. It is very hard to want something so bad and it hurts not being able to have it. I see how withdrawal could be for an addict. I was having withdrawal symptoms myself when I had to end a realtionship with2 men that were not ready. I have not dated for a while and forgot how I could get with men. When the time is right for me I believe I will find true love. Love should not hurt. Thanks for your post
rebec is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 07:19 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
itisatruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
[QUOTE=anvilhead;2246295]
can we honestly look at our chosen partner and say i accept you fully in this moment exactly as you are?
QUOTE]

Honestly ~ No. I think he would say yes to this - but I just can't right now. I've let go in many ways - with the trying to control/cure/change - and I can accept him as a person who is dealing with problems. But accept him - the way he is right now - as a my life partner?

I've written and erased several lines here....and come up with this - if I'm willing to accept him as a PERSON -but not necessarily as someone I would now choose to spend the rest of my life with....

Guess that doesn't say a lot about where I stand with it all - with him. At one time I would have said yes - completely. Things have changed so much. Yet I'm not fully ready to give it up. Considering this and what zencat said, I've got a lot to think about.

This is all helping me think through a lot of things ~ thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
itisatruth is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 07:41 PM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
itisatruth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by freya View Post
When I was a freshman in college I took an aesthetics (philosophy of beauty) class. And at one point the professor told us that when we truly recognize and appreciate something as "beautiful" we do not desire to own it or possess it or change it in anyway, but rather intensely desire just that it be just what and as it is and feel that it is an almost overwhelming honor and gift just be be able to be in its presence.

I've always remembered that, and, to me, it seems, really, to be what true "love" is about...but, obviously, that is an ideal to strive toward, not the nuts and bolts of everyday life....but it does kinda go along with the Al Anon idea that the only true way to respect the dignity and freedom of another person is to accept that person as who they really are, even if that means that we can no longer have him/her in our lives.

In the rooms I've heard a lot of people say that they've realized that what they thought was love (and what they were taught in their families of origin was "love") they now realize was some combination of obligation, duty, and/or a fear-based desire to control for selfish reasons. That's kinda interesting -- in a very weird way -- because it's like pretty much the exact opposite of the aesthetics thing.

freya
I like that idea quite a bit - accepting something as beautiful just the way it is. Almost like an idea of perfection - it is just because it is. I suppose I accept our relationship, and him, as imperfect right now, not a beautiful, or romanitic love, and for some time - I have lived with that - not necessarily been happy about it - but lived with it. Which leads right into the next part of this post - living for duty, or obligation, security, or even just normalcy.

And this puts things right back in my lap - that I was raised to do for others -to be the perfect daughter who sacrificed to make others happy, did what my parents wanted because I had not yet found what I wanted and because I wanted their love. I'm hoping this is a step towards learning what it is I really do want - and finding out who I really am.....
itisatruth is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:41 AM.