Need advice on HOW to ask AS to leave
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Need advice on HOW to ask AS to leave
I know this sounds strange but I'm a bit overwhelmed so maybe some clear heads could help me with this.
My AS lives with me with his two children. His wife was living here but left him about 2 weeks ago. Prior to her leaving, I don't believe he was using for a year. When she left him I suspected he either used or tried to as he was upset over her leaving him. I just found out a few days ago that he indeed did. I found a folded in half soda can in our outside garbage can with something burned in it. Back when he was using for sure, his wife had seen him inhaling something from a soda can. A little research tells me this was probably crack cocaine. I also had other clues so while I didn't see him I am positive in my mind that he did it.
Since then, I have seen some positive signs so hoped it was a one time lapse. He just got a job after not having one for awhile and he really likes the job. It's a physical job that has him coming home tired. All the better I figured. A way to keep his mind and body occupied from constantly thinking about his troubles with his wife.
Well tonight I had another sign. Maybe I'm paranoid. Maybe it's nothing but something looked fishy. So tomorrow evening when my husband is home we plan to surprise him with a home drug test. I just have to know for sure. I have made it clear to him that if he uses then he has to leave.
Now my dilemma. How exactly is the best way to tell him to leave? I know that sounds stupid. Do we just take his key and tell him to pack a bag immediately or do we give him a day to line up some place to go? He's never been violent but I could see a BIG scene because of his stubborn nature. If his wife doesn't have the kids then I plan to have my other son arrange to come and get the kids and take them out or to his house so they won't be here when this all goes down.
I mean I hope he's clean but if he isn't I want to have this thought through ahead of time.
I'm nervous about asking him to take the test but I will.
I'm not sure if I'm actually asking a question or worrying out loud. I just know I had to write this.
If you have asked an addict to leave, is there a right or wrong way to do it?
Thanks for listening.
KariSue
My AS lives with me with his two children. His wife was living here but left him about 2 weeks ago. Prior to her leaving, I don't believe he was using for a year. When she left him I suspected he either used or tried to as he was upset over her leaving him. I just found out a few days ago that he indeed did. I found a folded in half soda can in our outside garbage can with something burned in it. Back when he was using for sure, his wife had seen him inhaling something from a soda can. A little research tells me this was probably crack cocaine. I also had other clues so while I didn't see him I am positive in my mind that he did it.
Since then, I have seen some positive signs so hoped it was a one time lapse. He just got a job after not having one for awhile and he really likes the job. It's a physical job that has him coming home tired. All the better I figured. A way to keep his mind and body occupied from constantly thinking about his troubles with his wife.
Well tonight I had another sign. Maybe I'm paranoid. Maybe it's nothing but something looked fishy. So tomorrow evening when my husband is home we plan to surprise him with a home drug test. I just have to know for sure. I have made it clear to him that if he uses then he has to leave.
Now my dilemma. How exactly is the best way to tell him to leave? I know that sounds stupid. Do we just take his key and tell him to pack a bag immediately or do we give him a day to line up some place to go? He's never been violent but I could see a BIG scene because of his stubborn nature. If his wife doesn't have the kids then I plan to have my other son arrange to come and get the kids and take them out or to his house so they won't be here when this all goes down.
I mean I hope he's clean but if he isn't I want to have this thought through ahead of time.
I'm nervous about asking him to take the test but I will.
I'm not sure if I'm actually asking a question or worrying out loud. I just know I had to write this.
If you have asked an addict to leave, is there a right or wrong way to do it?
Thanks for listening.
KariSue
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
Hi KariSue,
When I go through all the what ifs and hows and painful circular thoughts that make me unable to sleep, i call it "future tripping"...projecting all the different ways things can go, most of which never happen. For me, it is a fine line between having a plan and projecting all the things that can go wrong. I just wanted to say that because I sense that it would be easy for you to step over the line from palnning to incessant worry that helps nothing and hurts you, simply because you love and care for your son. Perhaps recognizing that can help you avoid it. I'm not sure if I could have avoided it without walking through it, but if it saves you a night or two of sleep, that would be great
I don't think there is a formula for the right way to ask your loved one to leave. It makes sense to me to acknowledge the potential that it can be a big scene as you have, but I don't believe there is a sure fire way to eliminate that possibility. I am also glad that you are thinking ahead about the kids and don't want them to have to experience the drama,
I found a good motto to live by is say what I mean, mean what I say and don't say it mean. If I avoid sounding critical and emotionally charged, I can avoid creating or being sucked into such drama.
Best of luck to you...I think even if the drug test should prove negative, the quality of your life is spiraling downward because you have lost trust in him and it is time that he look for other living arrangements that allow him to find his own path.
When I go through all the what ifs and hows and painful circular thoughts that make me unable to sleep, i call it "future tripping"...projecting all the different ways things can go, most of which never happen. For me, it is a fine line between having a plan and projecting all the things that can go wrong. I just wanted to say that because I sense that it would be easy for you to step over the line from palnning to incessant worry that helps nothing and hurts you, simply because you love and care for your son. Perhaps recognizing that can help you avoid it. I'm not sure if I could have avoided it without walking through it, but if it saves you a night or two of sleep, that would be great
I don't think there is a formula for the right way to ask your loved one to leave. It makes sense to me to acknowledge the potential that it can be a big scene as you have, but I don't believe there is a sure fire way to eliminate that possibility. I am also glad that you are thinking ahead about the kids and don't want them to have to experience the drama,
I found a good motto to live by is say what I mean, mean what I say and don't say it mean. If I avoid sounding critical and emotionally charged, I can avoid creating or being sucked into such drama.
Best of luck to you...I think even if the drug test should prove negative, the quality of your life is spiraling downward because you have lost trust in him and it is time that he look for other living arrangements that allow him to find his own path.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
KariSue, I know how hard this is and can only tell you what helped me.
I kept a list of phone numbers for shelters, detox, rehab, programs and a meeting list for NA and AA, and gave this to my son each time he had to leave (yes, this happened many times *sigh*).
We are not their only option. It's not "us or under the bridge" unless they want to make it that way.
He KNEW the boundary about using, so I never saw it so much as me throwing him out, but instead I tried to see it as he got himself thrown out for breaking the rules about using.
Having an active addict in the house is not healthy for us or for them. They will never find a reason to reach out for help if they don't need any, and as long as we make their life comfortable and there is no consequence to using, they have no reason to stop.
I know you love your son, as I love mine. But I remember the founder of SR, a recovering addict named Jon, telling me once that we can love them right into the grave. That made me flinch but he was right.
Prayers going out for all of you.
Hugs
I kept a list of phone numbers for shelters, detox, rehab, programs and a meeting list for NA and AA, and gave this to my son each time he had to leave (yes, this happened many times *sigh*).
We are not their only option. It's not "us or under the bridge" unless they want to make it that way.
He KNEW the boundary about using, so I never saw it so much as me throwing him out, but instead I tried to see it as he got himself thrown out for breaking the rules about using.
Having an active addict in the house is not healthy for us or for them. They will never find a reason to reach out for help if they don't need any, and as long as we make their life comfortable and there is no consequence to using, they have no reason to stop.
I know you love your son, as I love mine. But I remember the founder of SR, a recovering addict named Jon, telling me once that we can love them right into the grave. That made me flinch but he was right.
Prayers going out for all of you.
Hugs
Optimist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 486
Hi KariSue,
I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, but I wanted to ask about the kids. If you do tell him to leave, I think (and I could be wrong about this but) at this point he still has custody of the kids, right? So you may want to contact a lawyer about the legalities of keeping his children from him first.
It sounds like a really difficult situation and my thoughts go out to you and your family.
All the best,
Daisy
I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, but I wanted to ask about the kids. If you do tell him to leave, I think (and I could be wrong about this but) at this point he still has custody of the kids, right? So you may want to contact a lawyer about the legalities of keeping his children from him first.
It sounds like a really difficult situation and my thoughts go out to you and your family.
All the best,
Daisy
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,453
You know i think when there are hard things to say to people its best to just say it outright - without excuses and without a lot explanations. once you start justifying your decisions then it can quickly turn into an argument or a situation where someone can make you change your mind. So blunt is sometimes just better.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by greeteachday 
Hi KariSue,
When I go through all the what ifs and hows and painful circular thoughts that make me unable to sleep, i call it "future tripping"...projecting all the different ways things can go, most of which never happen. For me, it is a fine line between having a plan and projecting all the things that can go wrong. I just wanted to say that because I sense that it would be easy for you to step over the line from palnning to incessant worry that helps nothing and hurts you, simply because you love and care for your son. Perhaps recognizing that can help you avoid it. I'm not sure if I could have avoided it without walking through it, but if it saves you a night or two of sleep, that would be great
I don't think there is a formula for the right way to ask your loved one to leave. It makes sense to me to acknowledge the potential that it can be a big scene as you have, but I don't believe there is a sure fire way to eliminate that possibility. I am also glad that you are thinking ahead about the kids and don't want them to have to experience the drama,
I found a good motto to live by is say what I mean, mean what I say and don't say it mean. If I avoid sounding critical and emotionally charged, I can avoid creating or being sucked into such drama.
Best of luck to you...I think even if the drug test should prove negative, the quality of your life is spiraling downward because you have lost trust in him and it is time that he look for other living arrangements that allow him to find his own path.
When I go through all the what ifs and hows and painful circular thoughts that make me unable to sleep, i call it "future tripping"...projecting all the different ways things can go, most of which never happen. For me, it is a fine line between having a plan and projecting all the things that can go wrong. I just wanted to say that because I sense that it would be easy for you to step over the line from palnning to incessant worry that helps nothing and hurts you, simply because you love and care for your son. Perhaps recognizing that can help you avoid it. I'm not sure if I could have avoided it without walking through it, but if it saves you a night or two of sleep, that would be great
I don't think there is a formula for the right way to ask your loved one to leave. It makes sense to me to acknowledge the potential that it can be a big scene as you have, but I don't believe there is a sure fire way to eliminate that possibility. I am also glad that you are thinking ahead about the kids and don't want them to have to experience the drama,
I found a good motto to live by is say what I mean, mean what I say and don't say it mean. If I avoid sounding critical and emotionally charged, I can avoid creating or being sucked into such drama.
Best of luck to you...I think even if the drug test should prove negative, the quality of your life is spiraling downward because you have lost trust in him and it is time that he look for other living arrangements that allow him to find his own path.
Yeah my mom used to tell me that most of the things we worry about never happen. I just feel a little better with a tentative plan in my mind. I am also working to try to remember myself in all this. Like last night I had a meeting (nothing to do with addiction just a business type meeting). Afterwards I usually go out with the girls and I almost asked my friend to bring me home instead of going to the restaurant but I made myself go. I am determined that I am going to do my best to at least try to be as normal as possible in a crazy situation.
Both my husband and I are very laid back people and calm so there will be no mean talk. My husband especially has a kind of kindred spirit with this son. But just because I won't be mean doesn't mean I won't be firm and stand my ground as I'm just tired of living like this. Tired of always wondering if he is using or not.
He has always planned to move out but was out of work for so long. Now that he has a job I know he wants to leave too. I think you're right about him leaving no matter what.
I don't suspect that this test will come out dirty. It' s just a hunch. I think my main purpose in doing it is just to let him know I WILL do it and I DID buy the test and he WILL be tested from time to time. I want him to know by actions, not words, that I am dead serious about this.
Thanks so much for your good advice and kind words.
KariSue
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Ann
KariSue, I know how hard this is and can only tell you what helped me.
I kept a list of phone numbers for shelters, detox, rehab, programs and a meeting list for NA and AA, and gave this to my son each time he had to leave (yes, this happened many times *sigh*).
We are not their only option. It's not "us or under the bridge" unless they want to make it that way.
He KNEW the boundary about using, so I never saw it so much as me throwing him out, but instead I tried to see it as he got himself thrown out for breaking the rules about using.
Having an active addict in the house is not healthy for us or for them. They will never find a reason to reach out for help if they don't need any, and as long as we make their life comfortable and there is no consequence to using, they have no reason to stop.
I know you love your son, as I love mine. But I remember the founder of SR, a recovering addict named Jon, telling me once that we can love them right into the grave. That made me flinch but he was right.
Prayers going out for all of you.
Hugs
I kept a list of phone numbers for shelters, detox, rehab, programs and a meeting list for NA and AA, and gave this to my son each time he had to leave (yes, this happened many times *sigh*).
We are not their only option. It's not "us or under the bridge" unless they want to make it that way.
He KNEW the boundary about using, so I never saw it so much as me throwing him out, but instead I tried to see it as he got himself thrown out for breaking the rules about using.
Having an active addict in the house is not healthy for us or for them. They will never find a reason to reach out for help if they don't need any, and as long as we make their life comfortable and there is no consequence to using, they have no reason to stop.
I know you love your son, as I love mine. But I remember the founder of SR, a recovering addict named Jon, telling me once that we can love them right into the grave. That made me flinch but he was right.
Prayers going out for all of you.
Hugs
Thanks so much for your prayers even though I'm an atheist. Hey what could it hurt at this point?
I will make up that list in a few minutes.
Thanks so much!
KariSue
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Daisy09
Hi KariSue,
I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, but I wanted to ask about the kids. If you do tell him to leave, I think (and I could be wrong about this but) at this point he still has custody of the kids, right? So you may want to contact a lawyer about the legalities of keeping his children from him first.
It sounds like a really difficult situation and my thoughts go out to you and your family.
All the best,
Daisy
I don't have any experience with this sort of thing, but I wanted to ask about the kids. If you do tell him to leave, I think (and I could be wrong about this but) at this point he still has custody of the kids, right? So you may want to contact a lawyer about the legalities of keeping his children from him first.
It sounds like a really difficult situation and my thoughts go out to you and your family.
All the best,
Daisy
Thank you for the good thoughts.
KariSue
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by winnie12
You know i think when there are hard things to say to people its best to just say it outright - without excuses and without a lot explanations. once you start justifying your decisions then it can quickly turn into an argument or a situation where someone can make you change your mind. So blunt is sometimes just better.
It's a bit hard to use on him though. Even as a young boy when I'd refuse to argue with him I'd have to resort to going into my bedroom and lock the door and be silent. He still would just keep up and keep up until I finally got my car keys and left. By golly, if he didn't run after the car! Luckily my car was faster than his running. THAT'S how persistent he can be.
KariSue
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by KariSue
I don't suspect that this test will come out dirty. It' s just a hunch. I think my main purpose in doing it is just to let him know I WILL do it and I DID buy the test and he WILL be tested from time to time.
I found a folded in half soda can in our outside garbage can with something burned in it.
Personally I won't have someone living in my home who has to be drug-tested randomly.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
I'm confused. I thought you were going to tell him to leave. You stated earlier in this thread:
So now you know he's used, and don't need a test for that. Besides, many drugs leave the system fairly quickly and won't show up if he's tested days after the fact.
Personally I won't have someone living in my home who has to be drug-tested randomly.
So now you know he's used, and don't need a test for that. Besides, many drugs leave the system fairly quickly and won't show up if he's tested days after the fact.
Personally I won't have someone living in my home who has to be drug-tested randomly.
I realize that some drugs leave the system quickly and if he did do them a few days ago then my point in testing will be to warn him that I will test.... if that makes sense.
I see what you mean about having someone in the house that has to be tested and I may be wrong but my reasoning is that I need to know that I was fair about everything and SURE he is using without a shadow of a doubt before I can tell him to leave. I don't want to have to tell my grandchildren one day that his father left because I was "almost sure" that his dad was doing drugs and then found out I was wrong. Then again, I did find the can. I dunno. I just need to try it this way for my own peace of mind. I may regret doing it this way but I figure what's the difference if he leaves tonight or a month from now or two months? If I'm 100% sure (via the test) then I've covered myself and have been fair so I will have no problem telling him to leave. However, if I'm wrong well then it will be hard to live with my decision.
I know, I know...the can. Actually I just checked and it's still there. We have a garbage can that we were storing mulch in and not using it for trash. It's still in there right now. I really can't believe he could be dumb enough to put it in there knowing we will open it at some point to use the mulch. Maybe he wants to be caught? This is so confusing. I'm afraid if I show it to him, he'll deny it as I heard someone else say here that even if you catch an addict doing the drug, he'll say he isn't or he doesn't have a problem.
So, as dumb as it sounds, I think I need to try it this way.
I do appreciate your comments and am considering them. What would you say to him if you were me? Would you show him the can and listen to his lame excuse and then say leave? Maybe I should. This is just so hard. It's also unfair to me. I hate this. I am glad there is this forum to let me think out loud.
I think most of it is that if I'm not 100% sure by solid proof then I'm telling my grandkids dad (who is an excellent dad otherwise) to leave right after their mom left. Oh man......this sucks.
KariSue
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by anvilhead
he is NOT a little boy anymore....he's an adult, treat him as such. with respect dignity and firmness. there is no other reasonable answer for the can out in the garage - coulda been pot, probably crack - either way you know what you know. the testing is demeaning to both of you in my humble opinion. take a stand, NOW. you said no drugs in the house. you found drug paraphanalia. and it wasn't left by aliens.
I know, I know....the can. I am conflicted here and appreciate your candor. It could be pot? I hope so. I'd rather it be that than crack I guess. Not that any of it is good. I don't know diddly squat about how you smoke or take any of that stuff. I'm pretty sure in the past that he's done both pot and crack though.
Thanks again. I'll think about this.
KariSue
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Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,453
the can IS proof if proof is what you need to give yourself permission to do what you need to do. drug test doesnt matter, i just find that too unreliable - if it were me i'd hand him the can and say this is against our house rules - you'll have to leave by _______ and then i'd just leave the room. no arguments, no explanations. besides if you worry about your grandkids then think of it this way - do you want one of them one day living with an addict and making excuses or do you want them to be strong and firm in what they will and will not live with. you are an adult, it is your home and you really dont have to justify anything to your son or your grandkids. you can teach them a bigger lesson by being strong right now.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I may be wrong but my reasoning is that I need to know that I was fair about everything and SURE he is using without a shadow of a doubt before I can tell him to leave.
Good Luck.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I agree that the can is your proof.
If I had a cut up soda can with black burnt stuff at the bottom out back in a trashcan there would be other evidence of some Mr. Wizard Science Fair project with it. There's nothing I can think of, as a non drug user, that would create that kind of leftover garbage all by itself.
Now, if I think a bit outside the box, I might come up with a crazy excuse for it being there. If your son can come up with one in a flash (I hear addicts can tell a fib pretty well) then hand him the drug test.
Alice
ps I also agree that it is your house. He's a guest, even if he is related, and he can be evicted with cause like any other guest. You say he knows that if he uses, he loses the privilege, so see it through.
If I had a cut up soda can with black burnt stuff at the bottom out back in a trashcan there would be other evidence of some Mr. Wizard Science Fair project with it. There's nothing I can think of, as a non drug user, that would create that kind of leftover garbage all by itself.
Now, if I think a bit outside the box, I might come up with a crazy excuse for it being there. If your son can come up with one in a flash (I hear addicts can tell a fib pretty well) then hand him the drug test.
Alice
ps I also agree that it is your house. He's a guest, even if he is related, and he can be evicted with cause like any other guest. You say he knows that if he uses, he loses the privilege, so see it through.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
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You know, if you really really don't want to kick him out (which is what I am sensing), why bother with the drug test? Chances are it will show negative anyway.
I didn't quit doing things differently with my AD until I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. I had to get pulled so far down with her addictions that I was gasping for air, asking myself how did I end in the middle of the insanity?
At any rate, I wish you nothing but the best. You will learn in your own time too as the rest of us have.
I didn't quit doing things differently with my AD until I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. I had to get pulled so far down with her addictions that I was gasping for air, asking myself how did I end in the middle of the insanity?
At any rate, I wish you nothing but the best. You will learn in your own time too as the rest of us have.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
well i think it will help qo quit piling on the guilt quite so high for starters. you won't have to TELL the grandkid's you kicked their dad out cuz he was doing drugs in your house. how long has he been living off you, i mean with you anyways? is it his five year plan to keep living with mom? or was he at some point going to be productive, responsible and self sufficient and live on his own?
are you sure you hesitate because of your need for PROOF? or from your desire to have your little boy back home? the children can go stay with their mom, you won't have to drop them at the overpass and say goodbye.
what are the FACTS here? you had a boundary about drug use in your house. you have evidence he's been using...i believe you listened in some phone calls, you've witnessed odd behavior, dealers were calling the house and now you find an ash can in the garage. let's remember whose house this is......YOU have the right to ask anyone to leave at any time for any reason. PERIOD
this isn't about FAIR, you invited them IN to your home, and this is simply one of the consequences. try to stick to the facts part and not all the emotional hoo hah, that's screws us up every time. that's probably why i sound harsh......plus i'm an addict so i'm "hip to the scene" so to speak.
are you sure you hesitate because of your need for PROOF? or from your desire to have your little boy back home? the children can go stay with their mom, you won't have to drop them at the overpass and say goodbye.
what are the FACTS here? you had a boundary about drug use in your house. you have evidence he's been using...i believe you listened in some phone calls, you've witnessed odd behavior, dealers were calling the house and now you find an ash can in the garage. let's remember whose house this is......YOU have the right to ask anyone to leave at any time for any reason. PERIOD
this isn't about FAIR, you invited them IN to your home, and this is simply one of the consequences. try to stick to the facts part and not all the emotional hoo hah, that's screws us up every time. that's probably why i sound harsh......plus i'm an addict so i'm "hip to the scene" so to speak.
I am reading everything you say though and thinking about it. For now, that's all I can seem to do.I really do appreciate you telling it to me like you see it. I don't consider that harsh. I consider that honest.
KariSue
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