depressed and feeling inadequate
Survivor
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 149
Someone once explained it to me this way...
ABSTINENCE-
Abstinence is not using drugs, it offers no resolution to addiction or problems at hand. abstinence has an expiration date, for if addicts don't deal with why they use, they will use again...
RECOVERY-
recovery is a searching intense process which takes addicts to places they have never dreamed of exploring. they discover things about themselves in recovery which they did not even know existed, this can be a somewhat scary process but one which will benefit the addict immensely.. recovery is a process which takes one deep inside themselves to the core of their addiction, why they picked up that first drug, why they felt the need to escape this world, why they didn't want to be themselves and be a part of their families..
This is recovery. recovery is a process which requires action, fearless and searching action, the ups and the downs of recovery are intense…..
Recovery is something that takes a lot of strength, courage, willingness, honesty and most of all it takes the help of other addicts….. In recovery the addict must be able to look someone in the eyes and tell them I am a addict and I need help….then be willing to do the hard work…..for a lifetime…
Recovery requires action, abstinence does not equal recovery.
ABSTINENCE-
Abstinence is not using drugs, it offers no resolution to addiction or problems at hand. abstinence has an expiration date, for if addicts don't deal with why they use, they will use again...
RECOVERY-
recovery is a searching intense process which takes addicts to places they have never dreamed of exploring. they discover things about themselves in recovery which they did not even know existed, this can be a somewhat scary process but one which will benefit the addict immensely.. recovery is a process which takes one deep inside themselves to the core of their addiction, why they picked up that first drug, why they felt the need to escape this world, why they didn't want to be themselves and be a part of their families..
This is recovery. recovery is a process which requires action, fearless and searching action, the ups and the downs of recovery are intense…..
Recovery is something that takes a lot of strength, courage, willingness, honesty and most of all it takes the help of other addicts….. In recovery the addict must be able to look someone in the eyes and tell them I am a addict and I need help….then be willing to do the hard work…..for a lifetime…
Recovery requires action, abstinence does not equal recovery.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
Excerpt from "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists" by Eleanor Payson:
"Over time the primary feelings that you as the codependent partner typically experiences in these relationships are:
Hurt and frustration because your partner regularly minimizes your need for emotional intimacy in the relationship and becomes defensive and critical.
Self-doubt about the legitimacy of your emotional needs.
Devalued and demeaned if you are viewed by him or her as "less than"--less competent, less smart, less objective, less important and so on.
A growing dread that your partner simply doesn't "get it" about you (understand your feelings), coupled with an uncertainty about who is responsible--you, for not communicating clearly--or him/her, for being unable to comprehend.
Resignation that causes you to give up expressing your opinions, needs, or feelings because the resulting conflict isn't worth it.
Isolation and despair about the lack of emotional intimacy.
Abandonment whenever you recognize that you have legitimate reason to expect his/her support."
"Over time the primary feelings that you as the codependent partner typically experiences in these relationships are:
Hurt and frustration because your partner regularly minimizes your need for emotional intimacy in the relationship and becomes defensive and critical.
Self-doubt about the legitimacy of your emotional needs.
Devalued and demeaned if you are viewed by him or her as "less than"--less competent, less smart, less objective, less important and so on.
A growing dread that your partner simply doesn't "get it" about you (understand your feelings), coupled with an uncertainty about who is responsible--you, for not communicating clearly--or him/her, for being unable to comprehend.
Resignation that causes you to give up expressing your opinions, needs, or feelings because the resulting conflict isn't worth it.
Isolation and despair about the lack of emotional intimacy.
Abandonment whenever you recognize that you have legitimate reason to expect his/her support."
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
And one more excerpt from the same book:
"The overall definition of someone with a narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by a combination of severe limitations in understanding other people and their feelings, as well as an excessive pursuit of what are called narcissistic supplies, such as attention... admiration, understanding, support..... power, control.... While all of us need these supplies in adequate amounts to feel a sense of well-being, the narcissist pursues them with an unrelenting desperation and a keen ability to manipulate others. Meanwhile the outer persona of the NPD individual is generally one of confidence and control, alongside a smooth or charming demeanor. As your involvement with the narcissist develops you will notice that the relationship increasingly becomes one-way with you in the primary giving position."
...
"The narcissist requires you to put yourself aside and realize that what's happening to him is MORE special, MORE upsetting, or MORE wonderful. Eventually, you realize that you and your needs are on indefinite hold."
.....
Abundance, your feelings are being discredited in your relationship, and you don't need anymore of that from him or from anyone else. You have legitimate needs, you have understandable self-doubt, and your confidence about your own reality has been continually eroded in this relationship.
You do deserve support and acknowledgment that you need help to break free of him and affirmation that YOU are not the PROBLEM, as he wants you to believe (if he is a narcissist).
Yes, the relationship has evoked in you deep emotional distress and confusion. But, if he is a narcissist, believe me, you are a victim of his power and you need help to break free.
Hoping you continue on in therapy. xo
"The overall definition of someone with a narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by a combination of severe limitations in understanding other people and their feelings, as well as an excessive pursuit of what are called narcissistic supplies, such as attention... admiration, understanding, support..... power, control.... While all of us need these supplies in adequate amounts to feel a sense of well-being, the narcissist pursues them with an unrelenting desperation and a keen ability to manipulate others. Meanwhile the outer persona of the NPD individual is generally one of confidence and control, alongside a smooth or charming demeanor. As your involvement with the narcissist develops you will notice that the relationship increasingly becomes one-way with you in the primary giving position."
...
"The narcissist requires you to put yourself aside and realize that what's happening to him is MORE special, MORE upsetting, or MORE wonderful. Eventually, you realize that you and your needs are on indefinite hold."
.....
Abundance, your feelings are being discredited in your relationship, and you don't need anymore of that from him or from anyone else. You have legitimate needs, you have understandable self-doubt, and your confidence about your own reality has been continually eroded in this relationship.
You do deserve support and acknowledgment that you need help to break free of him and affirmation that YOU are not the PROBLEM, as he wants you to believe (if he is a narcissist).
Yes, the relationship has evoked in you deep emotional distress and confusion. But, if he is a narcissist, believe me, you are a victim of his power and you need help to break free.
Hoping you continue on in therapy. xo
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by Abundance 
IN A RELATIONSHIP - it takes giving admiration, interest, caring, compassion, understanding to help it thrive.
However, I see you going to the hardware store for bread.
He can't give you admiration, interest, caring, compassion, and understanding.
You can try and fix yourself all you want under the current circumstances. You can't change his end of the dynamics on this relationship.
Relationships are partnerships.
I see/read nothing that indicates he's suitable for you in any way, shape, or form.
As someone else already said, love should NOT be this hard.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Abs)))
You've commented on having to compete against the drugs for him, and now you don't know what to compete against. Sweetie, relationships aren't about competing with anything for a person.
You're asking how to make yourself feel better about yourself. I'm really glad your going to counseling, but I still think you're putting way too much thought and effort into him. What would happen if he weren't IN the equation? What would you do then? Because quite honestly, sweetie...he's not. He may be physically there, but I don't see him doing anything that enhances your life.
You may have to accept that, with him, this is the best it's going to get. The things you want, he may not have. It all comes back to you. Knowing and accepting are 2 totally different things. Until you accept it, you are probably going to feel pretty frustrated.
I wish I could give you some great advice, but I looked to someone else for decades, before I found out they couldn't give me what I needed. I'm hoping it doesn't take you that long.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
You've commented on having to compete against the drugs for him, and now you don't know what to compete against. Sweetie, relationships aren't about competing with anything for a person.
You're asking how to make yourself feel better about yourself. I'm really glad your going to counseling, but I still think you're putting way too much thought and effort into him. What would happen if he weren't IN the equation? What would you do then? Because quite honestly, sweetie...he's not. He may be physically there, but I don't see him doing anything that enhances your life.
You may have to accept that, with him, this is the best it's going to get. The things you want, he may not have. It all comes back to you. Knowing and accepting are 2 totally different things. Until you accept it, you are probably going to feel pretty frustrated.
I wish I could give you some great advice, but I looked to someone else for decades, before I found out they couldn't give me what I needed. I'm hoping it doesn't take you that long.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
Wow - lots of valuable info in this thread. Abs - I totally get where you're at. I'm somewhat in the same place. My AH has never been in touch with his feelings, never a talker, never very intimate - not to say this in a mean way, but he can be very shallow. I on the other hand can talk until the cows come home. I can be very deep, but have almost closed that part off from me because AH and I could never really connect on that level. I'll work hard, set goals to reap the benefits. H will look for a quick fix always. You seem to me to be a very emotional and deep person. It's ok to realize or conclude that he may never be able to give you what you need. You don't have to settle for less if your needs aren't even close to being met.
but you need to keep the plant watered for it to stay alive, you need to put gas in the tank to keep it running
It sounds like you're the only one concerned about the plant or keeping the car running - which translates to you doing all of the work.
I've always wondered if there is a book out there on how to program your thinking to be rid of a toxic person. You know Allen Carr has 'how to stop smoking' books. Basically he trains you to retrain your brain. Then there was that Paul guy who helped people lose weight by doing the same thing. I wish there was something out there that would help retrain your brain to be rid of a toxic person in your life. I know that I need it too.
Abs - it hurts when you're so unfulfilled. I have felt that way for years with my AH. We're from two totally different planets when it comes to meeting needs on an emotional level. Thank you for starting this thread - loads of info for all of is in your shoes.
but you need to keep the plant watered for it to stay alive, you need to put gas in the tank to keep it running
It sounds like you're the only one concerned about the plant or keeping the car running - which translates to you doing all of the work.
I've always wondered if there is a book out there on how to program your thinking to be rid of a toxic person. You know Allen Carr has 'how to stop smoking' books. Basically he trains you to retrain your brain. Then there was that Paul guy who helped people lose weight by doing the same thing. I wish there was something out there that would help retrain your brain to be rid of a toxic person in your life. I know that I need it too.
Abs - it hurts when you're so unfulfilled. I have felt that way for years with my AH. We're from two totally different planets when it comes to meeting needs on an emotional level. Thank you for starting this thread - loads of info for all of is in your shoes.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,307
This is what has happened. I have taken off my raincoat.... and let him totally over power me and penetrate into me.
I have allowed myself to be totally and utterly consumed in what he is doing and I'm blaming him for not filling my hole...... for him not letting me control or manipulate him.... and it's pushing me out of my denial and resistance of having to look at myself.
My therapist is really pushing me and going to my core. Going through the patterns since childhood. This week I am to think about what role I played in my childhood, as well as my brother and sister. I am also having to journal and then bring it to my next session to discuss.
I am doing recovery .... and I would be doing this with or without my guy. If he ends up leaving because he can't handle my doing the work I need to do.... then he needs to do what's right for him. And then comes up my fear of abandonment..... nooooooooo don't leave me!!!! I know better than to have attachment. This codependency that has manifested in me is a beast to get rid of. I should mourn the loss of our old relationship (the good times) and remember that I don't get to just pick and choose what I want to stay and not want to stay. There IS a trade off.
We are both doing recovery ... he is doing it by "finding himself"... reading Jewish books when he isn't working. Maybe about 5% of his time is spent on doing something new and different. And if he isn't working and has writers block... he lies down with such frustration and impending doom that he won't get it back. He is scared too.... about things - but just doesn't express it. Where I express everything.
We are on a learning curve....
I have got to quit focusing so much on HIM ... on how he is feeling.... is he telling the truth.... what does he want....... I have to not only learn to think about myself and what I want... but do it without feeling guilty. The adrenalin that goes through me ... the anxiety .... it's paralyzing at times. Actually thinking of myself..... I actually take enjoyment reading into other people and solving their problems, but when it comes to me...... I have no clue. I don't know why or what I'm scared of facing within me, but I'm trying everything to avoid going there.
I'm grateful for having therapy and I'm so grateful to SR. I know I keep going M.I.A. ... sometimes threads are triggers for me and I'm still suffering the PTSD... and / or I become insecure and think ..... "what must you all think of me?". AND that is something else I need to work on....... who gives a flying fig what anyone thinks of me as long as I'm okay with walking where I like my steps!
Not only am I not thrilled with where I've been walking..... I have barely moved.......
Love you guys xoxoo
PS... Lightseeker, Donna, I am nearly done with that "women, sex, and addiction" book ..... and I'm glad I waited until now to read it. I tried it a few times months ago - but just wasn't ready for it. Thank you for the reference.
I have allowed myself to be totally and utterly consumed in what he is doing and I'm blaming him for not filling my hole...... for him not letting me control or manipulate him.... and it's pushing me out of my denial and resistance of having to look at myself.
My therapist is really pushing me and going to my core. Going through the patterns since childhood. This week I am to think about what role I played in my childhood, as well as my brother and sister. I am also having to journal and then bring it to my next session to discuss.
I am doing recovery .... and I would be doing this with or without my guy. If he ends up leaving because he can't handle my doing the work I need to do.... then he needs to do what's right for him. And then comes up my fear of abandonment..... nooooooooo don't leave me!!!! I know better than to have attachment. This codependency that has manifested in me is a beast to get rid of. I should mourn the loss of our old relationship (the good times) and remember that I don't get to just pick and choose what I want to stay and not want to stay. There IS a trade off.
We are both doing recovery ... he is doing it by "finding himself"... reading Jewish books when he isn't working. Maybe about 5% of his time is spent on doing something new and different. And if he isn't working and has writers block... he lies down with such frustration and impending doom that he won't get it back. He is scared too.... about things - but just doesn't express it. Where I express everything.
We are on a learning curve....
I have got to quit focusing so much on HIM ... on how he is feeling.... is he telling the truth.... what does he want....... I have to not only learn to think about myself and what I want... but do it without feeling guilty. The adrenalin that goes through me ... the anxiety .... it's paralyzing at times. Actually thinking of myself..... I actually take enjoyment reading into other people and solving their problems, but when it comes to me...... I have no clue. I don't know why or what I'm scared of facing within me, but I'm trying everything to avoid going there.
I'm grateful for having therapy and I'm so grateful to SR. I know I keep going M.I.A. ... sometimes threads are triggers for me and I'm still suffering the PTSD... and / or I become insecure and think ..... "what must you all think of me?". AND that is something else I need to work on....... who gives a flying fig what anyone thinks of me as long as I'm okay with walking where I like my steps!
Not only am I not thrilled with where I've been walking..... I have barely moved.......
Love you guys xoxoo
PS... Lightseeker, Donna, I am nearly done with that "women, sex, and addiction" book ..... and I'm glad I waited until now to read it. I tried it a few times months ago - but just wasn't ready for it. Thank you for the reference.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,307
EDIT: I used poor wording with "competition"...... sure I felt like I was competing for his attention and love with the drugs. And because of the lack of attention I get from him - I associate it with the "competition" and so I wonder what the "competition" is...... where maybe it isn't competition? Maybe it is that he has a lot on his mind and is going through his own stuff and is not able to give it to me.
We have different love languages.
My love language is through love, affection, and spending time together.
His love language is buying gifts..... and doing things for others.
My love language doesn't take as much energy! With his - he needs money and time to do the things he wants to do for people (me).
We are getting to know each other all over again .....and there is constant change and growth.
You all have helped me so much with your replies..... but not being together.... that is not an option. Maybe we both have narcissistic tendencies ??? I am learning so much about myself... seeing myself through your replies, my therapist, and my guy.
This thread helped me talk it out... it helped me be honest with myself and get out all that I have been holding in.... in a constructive way. Rather than acting out and being passive aggressive and walking on egg shells. I must remember I do have personal rights.
I wonder if there are some good books/movies of realistic relationships...... ones that aren't hollywood endings, but realistic. Pass them on to me if you know of some.
Hammerhead... I'm trying to find *my* reference point.... I have a glimpse of who I am.... or who I used to be.
Freedom - there is absolutely no shame in that. I'm just not at that point.
Amy - I was wondering about how this could be a pre-cursor to a relapse. But not worried.... funny enough. That is a good thing, but I am prepared for the worst should it happen.
(have to run ... i'm taking "meals on wheels" to my dad)
We have different love languages.
My love language is through love, affection, and spending time together.
His love language is buying gifts..... and doing things for others.
My love language doesn't take as much energy! With his - he needs money and time to do the things he wants to do for people (me).
We are getting to know each other all over again .....and there is constant change and growth.
You all have helped me so much with your replies..... but not being together.... that is not an option. Maybe we both have narcissistic tendencies ??? I am learning so much about myself... seeing myself through your replies, my therapist, and my guy.
This thread helped me talk it out... it helped me be honest with myself and get out all that I have been holding in.... in a constructive way. Rather than acting out and being passive aggressive and walking on egg shells. I must remember I do have personal rights.
I wonder if there are some good books/movies of realistic relationships...... ones that aren't hollywood endings, but realistic. Pass them on to me if you know of some.
Hammerhead... I'm trying to find *my* reference point.... I have a glimpse of who I am.... or who I used to be.
Freedom - there is absolutely no shame in that. I'm just not at that point.
Amy - I was wondering about how this could be a pre-cursor to a relapse. But not worried.... funny enough. That is a good thing, but I am prepared for the worst should it happen.
(have to run ... i'm taking "meals on wheels" to my dad)
Movie suggestion... Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 545
Abundance... I read a couple of quotes this morning and wanted to share them with you.
I relate to these... can you?
Take care.
p.s. Not picking on men... (feel free to substitute woman/women)
"No man can ever give you your self-worth, but you can let plenty of men rob you of it."
"Bad men are spiritual graces sent in disguise to teach us, through torment, to love ourselves."
"Bad men are spiritual graces sent in disguise to teach us, through torment, to love ourselves."
I relate to these... can you?
Take care.
p.s. Not picking on men... (feel free to substitute woman/women)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,307
You guys..... I had a total break through over the weekend... and I really can't thank you enough for seeing me through it.
I have come to realize that - once again - I have no control over anyone, but myself.
Now, here is the biggie, when my guy was in active addiction - I learned this art of manipulation. I think that was one of the "big things" I was getting out of *his* addiction. My being able to manipulate.
Now, that he is not in active addiction, and has a focus on work and positive things in his life, he isn't always having to say he is sorry and ask me "back".... so I'm mourning the loss of "that" kind of attention...... which as we all know .... is very dramatic! It just sucked me right in! My friends liked to tell me that he goes "fishing" with me...... throws me out there and then "reels" me back in! Well - not anymore he doesn't. Could I actually be mourning that..... as a loss???
Now, we are adjusting.... adjusting to something totally new. Something has changed, we are changing.
I know that it's early on, but thus far, the more I have stayed out of his box.... the more, he has been interested in mine. And just because he doesn't get all "crazy" like I do - doesn't mean that he isn't interested.
OMG.... I just see ..... manipulation and obsession - that was me! yuck! Man - I can't stand that being the things that addiction brought out in me.
Sometimes I get a little freaked out when I think I am going to be working on this for a life time..... sometimes I just wish I could bounce right on out of being a codie. Snap out and STAY snapped out of finding him so much more interesting than me! Or, I should say... wishing and hoping (craving) that he only was as keen on being wrapped up in my life as I am his!
And in reality - IF he were as wrapped up in mine....... I'd probably go crazy too!
SO - that is why I go to my tool box and do a pulse check and say... "ooooooh oooops... that isn't YOUR pulse - my dear!" And I quickly grab hold of my pulse and carry on.
I wish I could blame that freak out on PMS..... but unfortunately I can't.
I can't expect to react the same as I did in active addiction and think I'm going to get the same results! Why...... THAT'S INSANITY!!!!!!!
::::Shaking head::::
Peace and Love ~ xoxo
I have come to realize that - once again - I have no control over anyone, but myself.
Now, here is the biggie, when my guy was in active addiction - I learned this art of manipulation. I think that was one of the "big things" I was getting out of *his* addiction. My being able to manipulate.
Now, that he is not in active addiction, and has a focus on work and positive things in his life, he isn't always having to say he is sorry and ask me "back".... so I'm mourning the loss of "that" kind of attention...... which as we all know .... is very dramatic! It just sucked me right in! My friends liked to tell me that he goes "fishing" with me...... throws me out there and then "reels" me back in! Well - not anymore he doesn't. Could I actually be mourning that..... as a loss???
Now, we are adjusting.... adjusting to something totally new. Something has changed, we are changing.
I know that it's early on, but thus far, the more I have stayed out of his box.... the more, he has been interested in mine. And just because he doesn't get all "crazy" like I do - doesn't mean that he isn't interested.
OMG.... I just see ..... manipulation and obsession - that was me! yuck! Man - I can't stand that being the things that addiction brought out in me.
Sometimes I get a little freaked out when I think I am going to be working on this for a life time..... sometimes I just wish I could bounce right on out of being a codie. Snap out and STAY snapped out of finding him so much more interesting than me! Or, I should say... wishing and hoping (craving) that he only was as keen on being wrapped up in my life as I am his!
And in reality - IF he were as wrapped up in mine....... I'd probably go crazy too!
SO - that is why I go to my tool box and do a pulse check and say... "ooooooh oooops... that isn't YOUR pulse - my dear!" And I quickly grab hold of my pulse and carry on.
I wish I could blame that freak out on PMS..... but unfortunately I can't.
I can't expect to react the same as I did in active addiction and think I'm going to get the same results! Why...... THAT'S INSANITY!!!!!!!
::::Shaking head::::
Peace and Love ~ xoxo
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
