Frustration
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
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Frustration
sorry this is so long but i'm very frustratred.
I got a call from the PO yesterday and they are getting closer to getting my son approved at the Boys Ranch. they are supposed to call and do a phone interview with my son today. So it was time to let him know what i considered "good news."
I visited him last night and let him know. Of course he had to become negative - no matter how i explained it he had something negative to say. He has this idea of what he wants and nothing is going to change his mind. He wants someone to tell him exactly how much time he is going to spend somewhere and says that's why he just wants to go to jail. He wants to come home - says everyone else does so much worse and they get to go home - why is it different for him - its not fair quack quack quack.
One of their social workers was around and he asked her to come talk to us and she didnt have the best opinion of the facility - i think its because its a christian run place - but i almost kicked her under the table because she rolled her eyes and said she didnt think it would be a good fit. I then explained that there are only a couple of places he can go - one of them being the state run mental hospital so she did change her tune and said that the ranch would be a much better place. Way to freaking make it harder on me lady - but she knew from the look on my face that she needed to be supportive so at least she changed.
The big thing is my son says "he's changed." He's so upset because no one believes him that he's not going to do these things anymore. blah blah blah. I reminded him that everytime he had been in jal he had said the same thing. i reminded him that every time they've given him a chance he has blown it and that the only reason he is there is because he put himself there. that he could keep up this up and spend the rest of his life in and out of jail or he can take an opportunity and fight for his life. It is so hard to sit and listen to the bs spew out of their mouth while they are in jail. The hardest part is that they mean it while they are there - its just that as soon as they get out they forget everything they said and go right back to their old ways.
Yet again it was brought up by the social worker and him that i could fight his placement. I flat out said that i could not in good conscience do anything that would allow him to come home because if i did he would not survive. The social worker obviously did not realize this and then supported me fully - actually got a little angry at him (i think he had been lying to her and she realized it then) - she said "you get out and die we'll be at your funeral - no i take that back - i wont be at your funeral if you kill yourself" and then she walked off angry. I even asked him if he hadnt gotten caught the first time did he think he would be alive right now and he said no. That was all the reinforcement i needed for what i have to do. He was honest about one thing and said that he just couldnt accept his situation because accepting it meant he had to put it all on himself and he just cant handle that - makes him feel like he just threw his life away and then he just gets angry with himself - so for now i guess he's clinging to denial - at least he knows he's in denial.
The other manipulation he is using is that he wont get to see me if he goes that far away. Part of me wishes I could believe that but i just dont. I dont think he gives a rat's a$$ about seeing me and it really gets to me that he uses that. When he ran away he didnt call me, he didnt care about seeing me, so why is it different now - why all of a sudden does he care so much about being around me. If he did care about that, he would have stayed at the rehab he was in because he saw me a couple times a week over there.
My final words to him were that this is the best place he could possibly hope for and if he sabotages his phone interview today that i will not be visiting him anymore. I said I love you and then i left. He knew i was serious. Its up to him now whether or not he gets in there so if he blows it then that's his problem and i wont be party to it anymore. I just cant watch him throw away anymore opportunities to get his life back. If he wants to fight the system then he's going to fight it on his own.
I got a call from the PO yesterday and they are getting closer to getting my son approved at the Boys Ranch. they are supposed to call and do a phone interview with my son today. So it was time to let him know what i considered "good news."
I visited him last night and let him know. Of course he had to become negative - no matter how i explained it he had something negative to say. He has this idea of what he wants and nothing is going to change his mind. He wants someone to tell him exactly how much time he is going to spend somewhere and says that's why he just wants to go to jail. He wants to come home - says everyone else does so much worse and they get to go home - why is it different for him - its not fair quack quack quack.
One of their social workers was around and he asked her to come talk to us and she didnt have the best opinion of the facility - i think its because its a christian run place - but i almost kicked her under the table because she rolled her eyes and said she didnt think it would be a good fit. I then explained that there are only a couple of places he can go - one of them being the state run mental hospital so she did change her tune and said that the ranch would be a much better place. Way to freaking make it harder on me lady - but she knew from the look on my face that she needed to be supportive so at least she changed.
The big thing is my son says "he's changed." He's so upset because no one believes him that he's not going to do these things anymore. blah blah blah. I reminded him that everytime he had been in jal he had said the same thing. i reminded him that every time they've given him a chance he has blown it and that the only reason he is there is because he put himself there. that he could keep up this up and spend the rest of his life in and out of jail or he can take an opportunity and fight for his life. It is so hard to sit and listen to the bs spew out of their mouth while they are in jail. The hardest part is that they mean it while they are there - its just that as soon as they get out they forget everything they said and go right back to their old ways.
Yet again it was brought up by the social worker and him that i could fight his placement. I flat out said that i could not in good conscience do anything that would allow him to come home because if i did he would not survive. The social worker obviously did not realize this and then supported me fully - actually got a little angry at him (i think he had been lying to her and she realized it then) - she said "you get out and die we'll be at your funeral - no i take that back - i wont be at your funeral if you kill yourself" and then she walked off angry. I even asked him if he hadnt gotten caught the first time did he think he would be alive right now and he said no. That was all the reinforcement i needed for what i have to do. He was honest about one thing and said that he just couldnt accept his situation because accepting it meant he had to put it all on himself and he just cant handle that - makes him feel like he just threw his life away and then he just gets angry with himself - so for now i guess he's clinging to denial - at least he knows he's in denial.
The other manipulation he is using is that he wont get to see me if he goes that far away. Part of me wishes I could believe that but i just dont. I dont think he gives a rat's a$$ about seeing me and it really gets to me that he uses that. When he ran away he didnt call me, he didnt care about seeing me, so why is it different now - why all of a sudden does he care so much about being around me. If he did care about that, he would have stayed at the rehab he was in because he saw me a couple times a week over there.
My final words to him were that this is the best place he could possibly hope for and if he sabotages his phone interview today that i will not be visiting him anymore. I said I love you and then i left. He knew i was serious. Its up to him now whether or not he gets in there so if he blows it then that's his problem and i wont be party to it anymore. I just cant watch him throw away anymore opportunities to get his life back. If he wants to fight the system then he's going to fight it on his own.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,910
Thank you so much for posting this Winnie. I understand so well what you are going through and my heart goes out to you. Forcing our children to face the consequences of their bad decisions is so heart-breaking. Not giving them a soft landing anymore is heart-wrenching. I have copied your post and printed it out so I can look at it when I need to remember I have to stick to my guns about my decision that my daughter cannot return home when she is released from the hospital for her latest suicide attempt.
The big thing is my son says "he's changed." He's so upset because no one believes him that he's not going to do these things anymore. blah blah blah. I reminded him that everytime he had been in jal he had said the same thing. i reminded him that every time they've given him a chance he has blown it and that the only reason he is there is because he put himself there. that he could keep up this up and spend the rest of his life in and out of jail or he can take an opportunity and fight for his life. It is so hard to sit and listen to the bs spew out of their mouth while they are in jail. The hardest part is that they mean it while they are there - its just that as soon as they get out they forget everything they said and go right back to their old ways.
Substitute the word "hospital" for "Jail" and this is my daughter to a tee!
The big thing is my son says "he's changed." He's so upset because no one believes him that he's not going to do these things anymore. blah blah blah. I reminded him that everytime he had been in jal he had said the same thing. i reminded him that every time they've given him a chance he has blown it and that the only reason he is there is because he put himself there. that he could keep up this up and spend the rest of his life in and out of jail or he can take an opportunity and fight for his life. It is so hard to sit and listen to the bs spew out of their mouth while they are in jail. The hardest part is that they mean it while they are there - its just that as soon as they get out they forget everything they said and go right back to their old ways.
Substitute the word "hospital" for "Jail" and this is my daughter to a tee!
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Wow, winnie, that must have been a difficult evening and conversation to have. I'm impressed with the way you handled yourself. I don't know that I could have done so if faced with a similar situation.
I hope that all goes well with your son's phone interview and that he will grab onto this opportunity!
Hugs, HG
I hope that all goes well with your son's phone interview and that he will grab onto this opportunity!
Hugs, HG
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
((winnie))
How Brave of you to stand firm in what you know is best for YOU and for HIM!
I'm sure that was very tough but still the best thing for everyone.
We know that we "see" change before we "hear" change. That is what I tell the A's that were in my life and those that are still in my life.
"You won't have to tell me that you have changed - I will be able to see that you have changed."
Prayers that he allows His God to work in his life.
HUGS,
Rita
How Brave of you to stand firm in what you know is best for YOU and for HIM!
I'm sure that was very tough but still the best thing for everyone.
We know that we "see" change before we "hear" change. That is what I tell the A's that were in my life and those that are still in my life.
"You won't have to tell me that you have changed - I will be able to see that you have changed."
Prayers that he allows His God to work in his life.
HUGS,
Rita
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by winnie12 
He was honest about one thing and said that he just couldnt accept his situation because accepting it meant he had to put it all on himself and he just cant handle that - makes him feel like he just threw his life away and then he just gets angry with himself - so for now i guess he's clinging to denial - at least he knows he's in denial.
In a way I was glad it was so far away (360 mile round trip for me) because I couldn't be there every weekend to visit. I was working two jobs trying to make ends meet.
I never ever thought we would come out on the other side of that chapter of our lives.
:ghug :ghug :ghug
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Winnie,
I am sorry it sounds like the people that are supposed to be doing their job, are leaving it to you. I hope the Social worker has had her eyes opened by this. You have been so strong. I hope your son gets into the program, I think he will adjust and like it once he is there. Change is scary for all of us and he is just afraid of the change right now, but hopefully he will come to accept it and learn from it. Right now I am sure he thinks he has changed, but like you said give him a week and he will be right back to his old ways. Joey has been telling me the same thing after being clean 6 weeks, but I know he would go right back to using because it is to soon for the that change to stick.
Winnie he does care about seeing you, but it's a second in his line of priorities. Like most teenagers they come first and all he is really thinking about is himself and how he can make this as easy as possible on him. When he ran away I am sure he thought of you, I know he could have called, but really in a teens mind they can't. Let us know how the interview goes. Julie
I am sorry it sounds like the people that are supposed to be doing their job, are leaving it to you. I hope the Social worker has had her eyes opened by this. You have been so strong. I hope your son gets into the program, I think he will adjust and like it once he is there. Change is scary for all of us and he is just afraid of the change right now, but hopefully he will come to accept it and learn from it. Right now I am sure he thinks he has changed, but like you said give him a week and he will be right back to his old ways. Joey has been telling me the same thing after being clean 6 weeks, but I know he would go right back to using because it is to soon for the that change to stick.
Winnie he does care about seeing you, but it's a second in his line of priorities. Like most teenagers they come first and all he is really thinking about is himself and how he can make this as easy as possible on him. When he ran away I am sure he thought of you, I know he could have called, but really in a teens mind they can't. Let us know how the interview goes. Julie
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Location: Atlanta
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(((Winnie)))
I'm frustrated with you, and he's not even my kid. Not only has he got the teenage mentality of thinking the world revolves around him, and that if he says it, we're supposed to believe them (or at least that's how my niece acts), but he's got the addict mentality on top of it, and that's a double wammy.
I think you did awesome, in holding your own, and sticking to your boundaries. It's got to be hard, when he continues to charm those around him, and you have to come in and set the record straight. Too bad you can't just print up a "resume" of what YOU'VE been through with him, so these social workers have a more accurate idea of how your son has learned to expertly manipulate the system and those in it. You seem to be the one he CAN'T easily manipulate
Keep us posted, sweetie. I'm sending lots of love, hugs and prayers!
Amy
I'm frustrated with you, and he's not even my kid. Not only has he got the teenage mentality of thinking the world revolves around him, and that if he says it, we're supposed to believe them (or at least that's how my niece acts), but he's got the addict mentality on top of it, and that's a double wammy.
I think you did awesome, in holding your own, and sticking to your boundaries. It's got to be hard, when he continues to charm those around him, and you have to come in and set the record straight. Too bad you can't just print up a "resume" of what YOU'VE been through with him, so these social workers have a more accurate idea of how your son has learned to expertly manipulate the system and those in it. You seem to be the one he CAN'T easily manipulate
Keep us posted, sweetie. I'm sending lots of love, hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
Winnie, you handled it beautifully. He's trying to manipulate and apparantly it's working on the SW. Hopefully the boys ranch won't be so easily fooled. I understand your frustration with this whole thing hanging over your head. Even when you can find peace it's not really 'peace' with this looming over top. Is the boys ranch aware of exactly how manipulative he's being?? Hopefully they don't buy it.
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you guys are always my biggest cheerleaders and it sure does help.
i just wish i felt that i did better - the only thing i really wish i could change is how it makes me feel - having such irrational conversations just gets me crazy and i know we'd get further if i could be more matter-of-fact with him instead of letting my emotions show. we didnt really argue or yell but it was obvious that i was upset and it made me feel like i gave him control over me. i admit that i walked out holding back tears and close to a panic attack. I just wish he would accept all of this and for once stick to something and do what's best for himself.
i just wish i felt that i did better - the only thing i really wish i could change is how it makes me feel - having such irrational conversations just gets me crazy and i know we'd get further if i could be more matter-of-fact with him instead of letting my emotions show. we didnt really argue or yell but it was obvious that i was upset and it made me feel like i gave him control over me. i admit that i walked out holding back tears and close to a panic attack. I just wish he would accept all of this and for once stick to something and do what's best for himself.
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Keep in mind that engagement and detachment aren't opposites; the more engaged we become, the more detached we will have to be. Otherwise, we will lose ourselves in conflict, obsessiveness, anxiety over the future, and feelings of guilt and inadequacy. Realize that we are pioneers into the unknown, and uncertainty is our ally. When our minds crave closure and certainty, we need to remind ourselves that these are fictions.
~ Deepak Chopra
When I read that the other day I thought about how much it reminded me of co-dependency, but it was about war! Reminds me of how it's truly a battle inside ourselves.
You're fighting two battles at the same time winnie, and no matter what you will the war. Eventually your son will become a 'free country' and it will happen because you helped set him free.
Ongoing thoughts and prayers for you
~ Deepak Chopra
When I read that the other day I thought about how much it reminded me of co-dependency, but it was about war! Reminds me of how it's truly a battle inside ourselves.
You're fighting two battles at the same time winnie, and no matter what you will the war. Eventually your son will become a 'free country' and it will happen because you helped set him free.
Ongoing thoughts and prayers for you
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Originally Posted by winnie12
i know we'd get further if i could be more matter-of-fact with him instead of letting my emotions show. we didnt really argue or yell but it was obvious that i was upset and it made me feel like i gave him control over me. i admit that i walked out holding back tears and close to a panic attack.
Hugs & Prayers,
Chris
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Originally Posted by winnie12
My final words to him were that this is the best place he could possibly hope for and if he sabotages his phone interview today that i will not be visiting him anymore. I said I love you and then i left. He knew i was serious. Its up to him now whether or not he gets in there so if he blows it then that's his problem and i wont be party to it anymore. I just cant watch him throw away anymore opportunities to get his life back. If he wants to fight the system then he's going to fight it on his own.
I know this must have been very hard for you.............You are a beautiful person and a strong mom, you did what was right...
I know you are hurting, all i can do is send hugs and prayers.
Love,
cess
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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One of the hardest things I ever had to do was to love my teenaged AS (who started using after 2+ years of sobriety) enough to let him go. I just knew I was signing his death warrant.
I was told that it was his choice not to follow "the rules", to stop going to AA/NA meetings, to hang around with his old buddies, to become the totally self centered and disrespectful and abusive son he used to be. That I had to follow what I knew to be best.
I never could have done it without the support of my Alanon friends (didn't know about SR in 1985). 15 years later he finally has 2 years. I hope that isn't your son's path. But you will be ok no matter what.
And I am so very proud of you - this is really really tough stuff. Just rips the Mother's heart right out of her body. Give yourself a hug - and do something special - like eat chocolate!
Love in recovery,
Jody Hepler
I was told that it was his choice not to follow "the rules", to stop going to AA/NA meetings, to hang around with his old buddies, to become the totally self centered and disrespectful and abusive son he used to be. That I had to follow what I knew to be best.
I never could have done it without the support of my Alanon friends (didn't know about SR in 1985). 15 years later he finally has 2 years. I hope that isn't your son's path. But you will be ok no matter what.
And I am so very proud of you - this is really really tough stuff. Just rips the Mother's heart right out of her body. Give yourself a hug - and do something special - like eat chocolate!
Love in recovery,
Jody Hepler
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:ghug3
Sending hugs Winnie. Praying that he finds acceptance (understanding that his problems are because of his actions) and that he'll embrace the recovery options offered to him.
You're doing good Winnie, standing firm in your boundaries. It's tough, but you are doing it!
Sending hugs Winnie. Praying that he finds acceptance (understanding that his problems are because of his actions) and that he'll embrace the recovery options offered to him.
You're doing good Winnie, standing firm in your boundaries. It's tough, but you are doing it!
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