What about the phonies??
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What about the phonies??
And how often does this happen? When addicts or alcoholics 'lie to themselves and others'?
Heres what happened. I got two new jobs, so that I am better able to have time for school, the kids, and myself.
I am back to the resturant business, bartending in two nice resturants.
I have a customer come in and order a drink. we start to talk, and we discuss how I'm working on my masters in counseling.
He jokes about how the 'drink' helps with his anxiety.....
the plot thickens.... so does the benzos....
sooo,
I tell him I'm not specializing in anxiety disorders, however I have learned a lot about them, and have suffered a long time from panic attacks.
I also inform him, (that it's none of my business, that you shouldn't mix benzos with alcohol... and to be careful of self-medicating anxiety with alcohol, potentially causing a drinking problem)
He then tells me, that he does have a drinking/drug problem.
Tells me he goes to meetings 5 days a week, and has just got a sponsor, and went to a meeting that very morning.
I mean WTF???????????????????????
I asked him why he was at the resturant, and at the bar......
He said, "well, I'm working on it....."
He left after that one drink, perhaps my face changed when he said he goes to meetings everyday for 5 years now.....
I just thought to myself, how many people sit in these meetings and lie to themselves as well as others?
How many people pretend they are doing 'well' and still go have that ONE drink, or pop that ONE pill, BUT 'they are working the program'????
I'm just so disenchanted about recovery, and the many times I've come across situations like this, (where people are preaching and not really practiceing)
I had a man I worked with as well, went to AA everyday at lunch--- my boss gave him the time to do it, because he as well is a recovered alcoholic....
Well, the employee may have been going to AA, reading the AA bible at his desk, and preaching 'the word', but i KNOW for a fact, was doing lines in the bathroom at night at WORK!!
For the love of god...... I just wonder how many people just continue the pattern of lyeing, and why bother??? Just say you aren't clean and sober right?
Anything is better than fooling yourself and others. It makes me sad.
P.s. this has nothing to do with the abf - i've given up on that, he lies to himself all the time, I no longer expect him to be 'honest' with me.
I give up.
Love,
Cess
Heres what happened. I got two new jobs, so that I am better able to have time for school, the kids, and myself.
I am back to the resturant business, bartending in two nice resturants.
I have a customer come in and order a drink. we start to talk, and we discuss how I'm working on my masters in counseling.
He jokes about how the 'drink' helps with his anxiety.....
the plot thickens.... so does the benzos....
sooo,
I tell him I'm not specializing in anxiety disorders, however I have learned a lot about them, and have suffered a long time from panic attacks.
I also inform him, (that it's none of my business, that you shouldn't mix benzos with alcohol... and to be careful of self-medicating anxiety with alcohol, potentially causing a drinking problem)
He then tells me, that he does have a drinking/drug problem.
Tells me he goes to meetings 5 days a week, and has just got a sponsor, and went to a meeting that very morning.
I mean WTF???????????????????????
I asked him why he was at the resturant, and at the bar......
He said, "well, I'm working on it....."
He left after that one drink, perhaps my face changed when he said he goes to meetings everyday for 5 years now.....
I just thought to myself, how many people sit in these meetings and lie to themselves as well as others?
How many people pretend they are doing 'well' and still go have that ONE drink, or pop that ONE pill, BUT 'they are working the program'????
I'm just so disenchanted about recovery, and the many times I've come across situations like this, (where people are preaching and not really practiceing)
I had a man I worked with as well, went to AA everyday at lunch--- my boss gave him the time to do it, because he as well is a recovered alcoholic....
Well, the employee may have been going to AA, reading the AA bible at his desk, and preaching 'the word', but i KNOW for a fact, was doing lines in the bathroom at night at WORK!!
For the love of god...... I just wonder how many people just continue the pattern of lyeing, and why bother??? Just say you aren't clean and sober right?
Anything is better than fooling yourself and others. It makes me sad.
P.s. this has nothing to do with the abf - i've given up on that, he lies to himself all the time, I no longer expect him to be 'honest' with me.
I give up.
Love,
Cess
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(((Cess)))
Remember, sweetie...you're not dealing with addicts who are not thinking logically. You are never going to understand this, as you are not an addict. I can't explain my thinking when I was using, other than really stupid stuff seemed "perfectly logical at the time".
I've actually come to realize, though, it's not just addicts. I work in a restaurant, and seem to run into more and more shady and dishonest people all the time. I'm just trying harder to focus on the good stuff I see every day.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Remember, sweetie...you're not dealing with addicts who are not thinking logically. You are never going to understand this, as you are not an addict. I can't explain my thinking when I was using, other than really stupid stuff seemed "perfectly logical at the time".
I've actually come to realize, though, it's not just addicts. I work in a restaurant, and seem to run into more and more shady and dishonest people all the time. I'm just trying harder to focus on the good stuff I see every day.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
For what it's worth, I've found that many, many people are in denial of one thing or another. Addiction definitely has its place in this, but so many people are not able to look at themselves and be objective - seems like human nature.
I don't say this cuz I think I'm great or anything - far from it - I've done it too. But having worked in two careers that bring me in contact with many people I see it a lot.
Seems the biggest step is realizing when there is a problem/issue and accepting that you need to work on it. And then WORKING on it - whether addict or codie or just imperfect.
I don't say this cuz I think I'm great or anything - far from it - I've done it too. But having worked in two careers that bring me in contact with many people I see it a lot.
Seems the biggest step is realizing when there is a problem/issue and accepting that you need to work on it. And then WORKING on it - whether addict or codie or just imperfect.
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In the ministry we see all kinds of similar behaviour and denial as well. It's like the old quote about insanity, doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. People are miserable and hurting but they keep doing the very things that make them that way. Only they themselves can make the steps toward change. God reaches down His hand to help, so to speak, but they have to reach up to grab His hand. My consolation is that at least these people keep going to the places where the help is available (meetings, churches) and hopefully one day they will surrender it all.
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Originally Posted by cessy68 
I just thought to myself, how many people sit in these meetings and lie to themselves as well as others?
How many people pretend they are doing 'well' and still go have that ONE drink, or pop that ONE pill, BUT 'they are working the program'????
I'm just so disenchanted about recovery, and the many times I've come across situations like this, (where people are preaching and not really practiceing)
How many people pretend they are doing 'well' and still go have that ONE drink, or pop that ONE pill, BUT 'they are working the program'????
I'm just so disenchanted about recovery, and the many times I've come across situations like this, (where people are preaching and not really practiceing)
My personal experience is when I start becoming hypercritical of others around me, there is something very wrong with self that needs fixing. I am in effect, building myself up by tearing others down.
As far as being disenchanted about recovery, that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, isn't it?
Sure, we get the occasional Joe Blow in our AA meetings who's there for the wrong reasons, continues to drink yet says he's 'working' a program while sitting in meetings. So what? He's got the right to cheat himself out of as much recovery as he pleases!
It has no bearing on my recovery other than to make me that much more grateful for what I do have in my life, and that I don't have to live that way anymore.
I'm sad to see you so discontented, Cessy. To be honest, I see you becoming bitter and even more unhappy. I know that is not what you truly want. However, until you truly dig into your own recovery and start giving yourself what you really need, all areas are going to be affected, including your jobs.
:ghug :ghug
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Cessy,
Your post really struck a chord with me. I am struggling with the same thing. I was betrayed by someone who was a double winner....in fact, I met him in Al-Anon and because he was so admired by so many for working such a strong program, I trusted him completely. I opened my heart in a way I had never done before.
Other than the posters here who speak of their solid recovery, I do not know anyone who is a recovering addict and living a 12 step life. There were a lot of recovering addicts in the Al-Anon group I used to attend, and I know that some were engaged in infidelities, some were grandiose and tried to run the meetings their way, and some acted like it was high school in there, with all the ensuing cliques and gossip.
What I wished was that they had their own double winner meetings, because I wanted to be in a place where I felt safe from nonrecovering addicts. They may have been in their programs for a long time, but I still felt the disease in them and it made me very uneasy.
The ONE i trusted and fell in love with betrayed me and abused me with punishing, indifferent silence.
So Cessy, even though I have no advice for you, I do want to acknowledge that I struggle with believing in addict recovery because I just haven't found yet someone who embodies it. I believe in the 12 steps with all my heart. But the only shining examples of it so far, for me, have only been in books, not real life.
Your post really struck a chord with me. I am struggling with the same thing. I was betrayed by someone who was a double winner....in fact, I met him in Al-Anon and because he was so admired by so many for working such a strong program, I trusted him completely. I opened my heart in a way I had never done before.
Other than the posters here who speak of their solid recovery, I do not know anyone who is a recovering addict and living a 12 step life. There were a lot of recovering addicts in the Al-Anon group I used to attend, and I know that some were engaged in infidelities, some were grandiose and tried to run the meetings their way, and some acted like it was high school in there, with all the ensuing cliques and gossip.
What I wished was that they had their own double winner meetings, because I wanted to be in a place where I felt safe from nonrecovering addicts. They may have been in their programs for a long time, but I still felt the disease in them and it made me very uneasy.
The ONE i trusted and fell in love with betrayed me and abused me with punishing, indifferent silence.
So Cessy, even though I have no advice for you, I do want to acknowledge that I struggle with believing in addict recovery because I just haven't found yet someone who embodies it. I believe in the 12 steps with all my heart. But the only shining examples of it so far, for me, have only been in books, not real life.
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Just a p.s.
Hello-Kitty's post on Angelic's thread cleared the fog for me on this issue.
She mentioned that the addict, once clean, has to deal with the "underlying demons" that created the need to use in the first place.
So....I guess the litmus test is whether the recovering addict is really digging into those buried issues. It's pretty easy to sit in meetings. But, IMO, ftf weekly counseling for a mimimum of two years OR weekly 12 step work with a HEALTHY sponsor (already done the demon work) for the same amount of time....that would help me be able to believe the program addict was trustworthy for relationship.
There are no addicts in my family or among my friends....so....if an addict re-enters my life, it will be because he was invited.
Hello-Kitty's post on Angelic's thread cleared the fog for me on this issue.
She mentioned that the addict, once clean, has to deal with the "underlying demons" that created the need to use in the first place.
So....I guess the litmus test is whether the recovering addict is really digging into those buried issues. It's pretty easy to sit in meetings. But, IMO, ftf weekly counseling for a mimimum of two years OR weekly 12 step work with a HEALTHY sponsor (already done the demon work) for the same amount of time....that would help me be able to believe the program addict was trustworthy for relationship.
There are no addicts in my family or among my friends....so....if an addict re-enters my life, it will be because he was invited.
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Hi Cessy -- I think it has more to do with that fellow than addicts in general.
Most not wanting to work a recovery will not waste the time and effort. However, for some it is the human condition to lie to themselves. Certainly not everyone, but I see it in many venues -- the person going to weight watchers who never looses weight, because of their metabolism, the preacher who cheats on his wife, doctors who smoke, well groomed people with filthy homes - the list goes on
We all have examples of the strangeness of people -- I work with the public and sometimes -- I just have to shake my head --
Most not wanting to work a recovery will not waste the time and effort. However, for some it is the human condition to lie to themselves. Certainly not everyone, but I see it in many venues -- the person going to weight watchers who never looses weight, because of their metabolism, the preacher who cheats on his wife, doctors who smoke, well groomed people with filthy homes - the list goes on
We all have examples of the strangeness of people -- I work with the public and sometimes -- I just have to shake my head --
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to play devil's advocate here - there are a lot of things in my own life i have done that i knew i shouldnt do and a lot of things that i have tried to make changes and it took a long long time for those changes to take effect. I still struggle daily with some of my weaknesses. Even on here sometimes i'm great at telling others what to do and thinking clearly and then have my own codie relapse and do exactly what i tell others not to do. Its a journey.
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Originally Posted by winnie12
to play devil's advocate here - there are a lot of things in my own life i have done that i knew i shouldnt do and a lot of things that i have tried to make changes and it took a long long time for those changes to take effect. I still struggle daily with some of my weaknesses. Even on here sometimes i'm great at telling others what to do and thinking clearly and then have my own codie relapse and do exactly what i tell others not to do. Its a journey.
I get that Winnie, I have experienced the same... the difference is the ones who are righteous, and 'preach' about the recovery process, and their loved ones don't know they just ordered a martini up from me at a resturant.....
It's not comprehendable to me. I guess what I'm saying (and I think if you look at the advice I give) I always put a little disclaimer when helping... I usually say, "I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it" or "I empathize with you because I'm still stuck in the position that you are".
I don't see a problem with that.... it's the people (and I'm seeing it more latley) that they act like they are clean and sober (and they aren't). They sit in meetings with people trusting them, then they do lines in a bathroom at work....
Maybe I'm just more 'aware' of peoples denial/lies/ and deciept now..... I just don't get it.
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
Addicts don't have the market sewn up on dishonesty, Cess.
My personal experience is when I start becoming hypercritical of others around me, there is something very wrong with self that needs fixing. I am in effect, building myself up by tearing others down.
:ghug :ghug
My personal experience is when I start becoming hypercritical of others around me, there is something very wrong with self that needs fixing. I am in effect, building myself up by tearing others down.
:ghug :ghug
While I sit and talk openly with people about my issues, my mistakes, my wrongdoings, and they preach preach preach, they are usually the ones who I later find were lying, cheating, to me, and themselves.... does that make any sense??
No one is perfect.... and god knows i'm not. However, I could appreciate someone saying, that they TRY to work the program, but aren't there yet....
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What I was taught in Alanon/Naranon was that my recovery work was exactly the same as the addicts - get a sponsor, work the steps, go to lots of meetings, do service work, help others. That I was as powerless over addicts as they are over drugs.
Doing all that stuff kept me really busy - and it showed me what I needed to change in my life.
While I was struggling with my fourth step - it gave me great compassion (and empathy and love) for what the addicts in my life were doing. And when I got to face to face amends - that was what really kept me focused on me.
I was much less judgemental with "their" recovery - when I realized how hard it was for me to make the changes I was expecting of them - and do the things I was expecting of them.
Love in recovery,
Jody Hepler
Doing all that stuff kept me really busy - and it showed me what I needed to change in my life.
While I was struggling with my fourth step - it gave me great compassion (and empathy and love) for what the addicts in my life were doing. And when I got to face to face amends - that was what really kept me focused on me.
I was much less judgemental with "their" recovery - when I realized how hard it was for me to make the changes I was expecting of them - and do the things I was expecting of them.
Love in recovery,
Jody Hepler
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Originally Posted by cynical one
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]IWhen we stop taking others inventories, and pointing out defects in their recoveries and start looking at where we are lacking in our own, we can then start the slow process of allowing ourselves to heal.
I liked your response, and do agree with that too....
Not to get ot, but how long is long??? I'm getting sick of waiting for my healing to heal,(my recovery) this isn't a cut, it's like a gaping wound that keeps getting reinfected!!!
Love,
Cess
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Originally Posted by bluejay6
Cessy,
What I wished was that they had their own double winner meetings, because I wanted to be in a place where I felt safe from nonrecovering addicts. They may have been in their programs for a long time, but I still felt the disease in them and it made me very uneasy.
So Cessy, even though I have no advice for you, I do want to acknowledge that I struggle with believing in addict recovery because I just haven't found yet someone who embodies it. I believe in the 12 steps with all my heart. But the only shining examples of it so far, for me, have only been in books, not real life.
What I wished was that they had their own double winner meetings, because I wanted to be in a place where I felt safe from nonrecovering addicts. They may have been in their programs for a long time, but I still felt the disease in them and it made me very uneasy.
So Cessy, even though I have no advice for you, I do want to acknowledge that I struggle with believing in addict recovery because I just haven't found yet someone who embodies it. I believe in the 12 steps with all my heart. But the only shining examples of it so far, for me, have only been in books, not real life.
There are many who really do work a good program, but everyone has faults. I don't know one person, in or out of recovery, addict or non-addict, who has a blameless life. You have to look for the positive or pretty soon it'll be just you and the dog sitting together against the world. Until you realize...hey that dog licks his his @ss....I can't hang with that filthy mutt anymore...and the fleas...lol...lighten up my dear...we do recover!
KJ:ghug
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Originally Posted by cessy68
Not to get ot, but how long is long??? I'm getting sick of waiting for my healing to heal,(my recovery) this isn't a cut, it's like a gaping wound that keeps getting reinfected!!!
Some people can. They can get all involved in Naranon or Alanon, and be reasonably happy even while involved with an active addict.
I wasn't one of them. Are you?
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Originally Posted by kj3880
Wow. Maybe I shouldn't post here any more. Am I making you both uncomfortable and resentful by being here? Do you suspect that I secretly drink after I post on here? Ouch.
KJ:ghug
KJ:ghug
It out and out living a lie, and preaching to everyone about being clean and sober.
Also talking about a man ordering a martini up, at 3 in the afternoon, then telling me he goes to AA five days a week and went to a meeting that afternoon!!!
No suspicions there- facts - given to me, not asked for!
Also, I'm not resentful, I'm just sick of people not practicing what they preach. My mom raised me to shut my mouth, unless I could lead by example..... Ie; I don't tell my kids they can't smoke if I smoke.......
(and I don't agree with parents who are closet smokers)
Just be who you are, sober or not, smoker or not, codie or not, just don't live a lie............. thats all.
And p.s.... I'm a codie and a smoker.
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
I never was able to heal any part of me as long as I had an active addict in the home.
Some people can. They can get all involved in Naranon or Alanon, and be reasonably happy even while involved with an active addict.
I wasn't one of them. Are you?
Some people can. They can get all involved in Naranon or Alanon, and be reasonably happy even while involved with an active addict.
I wasn't one of them. Are you?
Problem is - those people end up being content with their own lives, and co-exist with an addict- who can't give themselves to a relationship (in a full sense) because the first priority for them is the addiction.....
Thats when I say, "whats the point of being with someone then?"
Intimacy, love, friendship, are things that are requirements for me........can't have that co-existing with an addict. It's just not enough for me.
Guess that brings me back to square one.
Gotta end it somehow. Didn't really want to go there with this thread, but you asked-- so I wanted to answer you honestly.Love,
Cess
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I know you didn't want to go there, Cess, but you did ask when the healing would start. I just didn't figure you for one of those people who could be content with an addict in the long run.
You're such a neat lady. I just hate seeing you drag around that ball and chain of the active addict in your life.
:ghug :ghug
You're such a neat lady. I just hate seeing you drag around that ball and chain of the active addict in your life.
:ghug :ghug
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KJ,
I was bracing for a reaction after my post....knew it would ruffle a feather.
I was being honest about my feelings, and your response is precisely why I am uneasy in Al-Anon rooms with lots of recovering (or non) addicts. Because I can't voice my fears and feelings of not being safe because I am afraid of being completely vulnerable in the presence of active addicts or dry drunks. If I say "I do not feel safe because I am afraid of people with the disease here who could hurt me in some way" then I would be castigated in the room.
I know my recovery is far from complete. I just need a safe place for it, that's all. And a safe place to say what is in my deepest heart.
Cessy's dismay is understandable because we are trying to build trust, on many levels, after being conned by addicts.
When we see an addict in major con mode, it is upsetting because it triggers that wound.
I was bracing for a reaction after my post....knew it would ruffle a feather.
I was being honest about my feelings, and your response is precisely why I am uneasy in Al-Anon rooms with lots of recovering (or non) addicts. Because I can't voice my fears and feelings of not being safe because I am afraid of being completely vulnerable in the presence of active addicts or dry drunks. If I say "I do not feel safe because I am afraid of people with the disease here who could hurt me in some way" then I would be castigated in the room.
I know my recovery is far from complete. I just need a safe place for it, that's all. And a safe place to say what is in my deepest heart.
Cessy's dismay is understandable because we are trying to build trust, on many levels, after being conned by addicts.
When we see an addict in major con mode, it is upsetting because it triggers that wound.
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