Done_With_It

:ghug
Remember how bad it hurt to take the training wheels off the bike because you knew he was going to fall and hurt himself? But you had to do it anyway, so he could learn how to ride?

Remember the first day of kindergarten when you had to drop him off by himself and how bad it hurt to let him go, but you had to do it anyway, to let him learn to become a boy and then eventually a man.

Remember when he got his learners permit and you didn't want to let him learn to drive on his own because then he might get into trouble?

Your not abandoning him now anymore now then you were then.
Sometimes doing the right thing feels like the wrong thing to a Mom.
It hurts but it's the right thing.


You are letting him spread his own wings and fly.
Maybe you can help him along his way, stand by his side during this,
don't do it for him, or he will never know he can do it on his own?

suchAsucker

Ya know, I can remember the day my father set boundaries with me... He said that it was OK to get my ears pierced ONCE... but the day that I wanted a second piercing in my left ear he said that he would never buy me another earring again... He loved to buy me jewlerly when I was a teenager... The day I went against his boundary and got another piercing he has NEVER to this day bought me earrings again... it may sound small.. but every couple years he'll buy me a bracelet or a ring but he's never bought me an earring again.. since then, my second hole in my left ear has closed-up.. but I've never expected earrings since then (over 20 years ago) and I don't blame him, never did, for it. It was my choice. But it only took that single act for me to realize that "a boundary is a boundary" and if it is crossed, then I have to be aware of the consequences... Sometimes, just a small act of boundary-enforcement can create an amount of RESPECT FOR THOSE BOUNDARIES that has life-long results... just my two-cents..

Normas

If I were him, I would be thinking "It doesn't matter if I'm using or clean, my mother doesn't want me anymore."

I don't agree with your approach. I've never agreed with this approach, even though it is often suggested by members of Al-Anon/Naranon. I don't disagree with booting him out when he was using, but I do disagree with keeping him out after when he's making sincere efforts to recover, just as you asked.

Your son is working very hard to change and is making changes. He is asking for help and knows he needs help. You feel bad about not helping him because you know it's the wrong thing to do.

It's important to recognize sincere efforts to change and to reward them. In behavioral psych, it's called offering reinforcement. When someone does something that you want them to do, you try to find a way to reinforce that behavior.

Instead of reinforcing his good behavior, you're rejecting him for past bad behavior and continuing to punish him for past bad behavior. That's not an effective parenting technique.

I believe in helping an addict or alcoholic when they're engaged in good behavior. I don't clean up after using behavior, or cover up for it, but an addict or alcoholic who is in rehab and making an effort deserves help.

To sum up:
Good behavior = help, love, support
Bad behavior = get the eff out!

You can do whatever you want, of course. But if your son tells you that he feels like you are being unfair, he may have a point.

Angelic17

I would like to thank all of you for answering my post. Every single time I read another person telling me to let him go, and make it on his own, it makes more and more sense to me. Donewithit, you put it in a way that I can really understand. Your so right, because I have had this feeling a few times in my sons life. And every stage of life is another jab in a mothers heart. Nobody ever told me that loving a child could hurt me so much. My mother had 4 of us, and never mentioned it to me. Or maybe I wasn't paying attention. My mother died 3 months before my brother did, and I am so glad that she didn't live to bury her son. My son is a man now. And I have to let him go. I just keep praying he stays clean. That's the hardest part. Thanks again for all of the support and encouragement. Normas, I am not abandoning my son. He has to learn to make it on his own. I am not punishing him. I am always here for him, and he knows it. I have done everything I possibly could to help him. It wasn't until I said no more, that he cleaned up. He left rehab 4 times. I kept going to get him and helping him. I didn't throw him out, he left on his own, cause he wanted to get high. He spent $92,000 on drugs last year. Money that was his, and I could not stop him from spending it. Now he has no money to get his own place. It's a miracle that he is alive and well. I would love to support him, but he is 28 years old. My husband told him if he leaves to get high, that he can't come back. Should we both go back on our word? My husband has always been a man of his word. My son also has other options. My sister said if he stays clean that he can stay with her until he gets on his feet. My older brother is also in his life to help him. He just wants to come home here. Says he is homesick. Coming back here might be the thing that kills him. My son knows I love him, and I am not punishing him. My son knows I want him. I pulled him out of a crack house with my bare hands. I love my son very much, and I am very torn up about not being able to let him come back. Thanks for your opinion.

Joeyboy

Awwh Angel, you have to let go sweetie. What were you doing at 28? I too have an addict for a son, and I know what your going through. Your absolutely doing the right thing. Tough love is a good thing. You can't cradle your son for the rest of his life. He has to grow on his own. I'm sorry that your hurting like this. This too shall pass. Picture your son clean, and working, living in his own place, and living a normal life. It's time to cut the cord. Be thankful. At least you know where your son is. And he is on the right track. There are many other mothers on this site that would trade places with you in a minute. I am one of them. As you say, if you take him back, he might go back to old friends, and old ways. Then you will be living with an addict again. Stick to your guns. It seems to be working. ((((((((((((((((((((((Angelic))))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))

JustAYak

Just droppin in to give ya a hug.

Freedom1990

How many adult children have you had in active addiction/alcoholism?

I'd sure like to hear more about your own personal experience with that.

Done_With_It

Actually that is your opinion, which is your truth, it is not fact, and it has nothing to do with "Effective parenting technique". Most of us come here
and talk about what has worked best for us and talk about our experience, since none of us come here to be experts in any field, we don't have the right to go around telling people what they are or are not doing right.


Your approach may work for some but would not have worked for me.

Many of us needed to grow our own wings, needed someone to cut the cord
& someone to believe in us enough to let us go.


Seems like you are fairly new here, Welcome to SR, :ghug
Glad you found us~

Like Freedom, I would love to hear more about you and your
experience when or if you would like to share.

Angelic17

Hello, it's me again. I got an awful lot of feedback on this thread. Ok, so let me start with Freedom1990. I am guessing that you were asking Normas how many adult children he/she has in addiction? I guess Normas is speaking from his/her own point of view. Thanks so much for that Freedom, because some people just dont understand what the mother goes through with an addict for a son. Jason, Hugs for you too sweetheart. I am so proud of you. You are an inspiration to me. Your mature and intelligent beyond your years. And I just know your gonna make it kid. Anvilhead, I got your message, and it came through loud and clear. You are very knowledgeable. It took me 28 years to realize that my sons life is not my own. I could never seperate me from him. He is part of me, no matter how old he is. He just turned 28 a few weeks ago. That's a big man. He moved out at 18, and back in at 26 for one year. I couldn't stop his addiction. I tried so hard. Unfortunately, It wasn't up to me, and I wouldn't accept that I couldn't fix him. Finally I had no choice but to face the truth, and get tough. When I got tough, he got well. Now, I'm tougher, but still have a loving mothers heart. I am standing firm on this. Joeyboy, thanks for your kindness. At 28 I was already married, and seperated. I had my own place, and went to college while mothering a 7 year old boy in first grade private school. Everything I achieved, I did on my own, cause my mother was an alcoholic, and my father bailed out real early. I had the childhood from hell. And my parents gave me nothing. I sure hope I have covered everyone. Thank you all. I appreciate all of the feedback, even from Normas whose words hurt a bit. Oh, and Donewithit, Thank You for your last post on this thread. It helped me to see that I wasn't the only one who felt that way. I appreciate it. I know I'm a good mother, who never abandoned my son. The problem is that he drove me nuts for 2 straight years of addiction, that he wore me out. He wasn't ready, but pretended he was. And I did everything for him. He kept going back out. Now I'm done. He finally went to treatment and stayed. He is doing well, and that's my gift for today. My brother and sister are at family counseling night with him tonight. He has alot of support from his family. I had to stop running, for self preservation. He almost killed me.

Ann

Normas, let me tell you about my experience as an ineffective parent, grab a chair, this may take a while.

Short version...I let my son come home many many times, each time he said he was clean, he may have even been clean when he arrived, but he used quickly after arriving. I lost over $10,000 that I could not afford, I had family heirlooms stolen and pawned and gone forever, I called 911 twice because he overdosed then sat at the hospital waiting to see if he lived or he died. I slept with my purse and my car keys under my pillow and I lost needed prescribed medication because he stole it from me. I lost belongings and money and almost lost my mind. All because I loved him.

Then an addict named Jon, the founder of SoberRecovery, said something to me that woke me up. He said "you just may love him right into the grave". That hurt, not because it was a scary thought but because it was true.

After driving to a town an hour away and showing up at a crackhouse, threatening to kick down the door if they didn't open up or send him out..could have been killed...I finally broke down and told God I could not live one more day like that, and I gave my son's care to Him. That was the beginning of my recovery, that was when I decided to live.

So don't tell me about behavioral psych called offering reinforcement. Don't tell me that I need to take my son home because he says he is clean and will never use again. Because what you are telling me is how to kill my son and go down with him.

"You just might love him right into the grave". That's what Jon said and I am grateful that I listened.

Angelic, I am sorry to intrude on your thread. But sometimes some things need to be said. My prayers go out for you and your son.

Hugs

Angelic17

Ann, what more can I say, except that I LOVE YOU. You are one of the nicest people I have ever met, and I appreciate your input. You can hijack my thread anytime you please. Thank You so very much for your story. You sound like me. I banged down the door of a crack house in Brooklyn a few months ago, and dragged my son out. I could have been killed there too. I just refused to give up on him. How is your son today Ann? I sure hope it's a very happy ending. I'm so sorry that you had to go through all of that. My son has never stolen from me, or been in trouble with the law. At least not yet. Bless You for this post. It helped me so much. I'm crying.

Ann

My son has been missing for almost 5 years now. He got some good recovery, and found a nice lady and had a baby girl, and then relapsed badly, and disappeared.

I could search for him, as I have in the past, but when I find him and he is using...then what?

So I wait and one day he will get clean and I will see him again. I keep faith in my heart, right next to hope, and know it will be so.

Hugs

Serenity Bound

((Angelic)) I can't count how many times I let my AD come back, nor how much $$ I lost paying fines, attys, bills, etc, or how many things she stole from me. (a pair of earrings given to me for my 50th BD) Until I really said NO more and meant it, nothing changed.
My AD is 30yo, she just celebrated 5 months clean. I put her in HP's hands every morning. Even 2 mos ago when I let her move back in (due to leaving her abusive H and she was clean) I STILL feel like I did the wrong thing, because she needs to learn how to handle life on life's terms, without having Mom always there as a back-up. (don't get me wrong I don't mean she should stay with someone abusive, she just needs to stand on her own two feet) She knows how much I love her, she knows that I'll always be there for her, she also now knows that I have boundaries.

I'm slowly learning to say NO, and it's not easy for me, she is my only child. So I know just how much it hurts you, IMO you are doing the right thing.

Ann, I've always loved your inspiration. Thank you.

Angelic17

Ok, This thread is a hot one. I got 36 replies. 35 said, don't take him in. And 1 told me I am punishing my son for past behavior. Hmmmmmmm. Uhm Ann, I'm still crying. I've been so emotional since yesterday. I'm so sorry about your son, it must be very hard for you. My heart goes out to you. Your a lovely woman, and I want to thank you for your input and your bravery. It takes alot of guts to be so open about your son. I sure hope things change for him. It's very sad.

Serenitybound, thank you for your input. I know that you love your daughter very much. I am happy to say that as bad as my son has ever been, he has never robbed me, or been in trouble with the law. I guess I should stop crying, and realize that other moms have it so much harder than I. Some don't even know where their kids are. It's awful
I'm going to try to pull myself together. Hugs and Prayers to all of you.

lovemykids

Thinking of you Angelic17, there is no question how much you love your son

NoelleR

Hey Angelic17 ---

"...but my son is my son, and it is torture for me to see him struggling..."

OK, first off, I need to confess here that I am not a mother; I do not have any children. I know that there's a presumption that if a person does not have children then they obviously do not know anything about rearing them...and for the most part, that presumption if pretty close to the truth.

However, when I read the above quote in one of the OPer's posts, I realized that I do know something about recovery, and I know about struggling....I can't imagine how a mother feels watching a child of hers struggling with recovery, so I obviously don't have any ES&H regarding that, but I do have a story about a man and a butterfly that relates to struggling, and how it's often necessary; it can be a very good thing......AND, I'm betting that your son's struggles today will make him a better man tomorrow. (o:

So, Angelic17, and anyone else who may be interested, whenever you can't stand watching one of your loved ones strugling, and you're you're tempted to 'jump in and save the day!' Well, here's a little story you can bring to mind; it might help you to just sit and realize that struggles can be good....

There once was a man, who found himself one day, sitting and staring at a caterpillar's cacoon.....He could see that there was a butterfly in there, just itching to get out. That little butterfly was just gnawing away, and scratching away at that cacoon, trying to break free, and fly around as the butterfly he was meant to be. Well, this man, thinking he was helping, trying to help the butterfly with it's struggles; this man got some tiny scissors and started cutting away at the cacoon, so the butterfly didn't have to struggle so much. This man did not realize that caterpillars, emerging from their cacoons as butterflies NEED their struggles to strengthen their wings.....Unfortunately, when this butterfly finally emerged from it's cacoon, since the man had 'helped',...this poor butterfly's wings were so deformed and weak, all this poor butterfly could do was fall to the ground flop around like a fish out of water.....

Well................there's my story..............and I'm stickin' to it.....I truly hope things work out for you and your whole family... b b(o:


NoelleR

Seren

Hugs, HG

Angelic, I'm sorry for your empty nest. But I am very pleased that your son is making progress and envy it since my future stepson is close to your son's age and is NOT making any progress.

Hugs and prayers (so which of the mysteries do you like to meditate on for the rosary?).

HG

sojourner

And may I add another story that i read about many years ago which is similar to NoelleR and the catepillar.

A kangaroo fetus, being conceived in the normal way by starting in the womb, at some point (maybe weeks after conception?) has to leave the womb and make the journey up mom's belly to get into that pouch where it finishes its growth into being a true baby kangaroo. That trip has to be made alone. If it falls off mom and lands on the ground, it dies. If mom or anyone else touches that fetus at all in order to put it into that pouch it will die. If the little fetus is making the journey up mom's belly just fine but mom decides to "help" it along, it will die because mom touched it. Maybe it would survive in the pouch for a little while, but it would be a sickly little creature because it had not grown the health that it needed to sustain itself throughout a long life. The solitary journey up that belly prepares that little fetus to live a long, productive kangaroo life. Wise kangaroo moms know and accept this.

One way to look at that is that we moms are toxic - but another way to look at it is to realize that some journeys have to be made alone in order to be successful, and we as moms (dads) need to learn the wisdom to know what those journeys are.

catlovermi

It's a very difficult thing to do, to attend to the larger pattern and not get sucked into the particular. But it's the right thing to do, to look at the big picture and over time, and not get sucked into the vignettes. This is the confusion of the codie, to get sucked into the particulars, and lose sight of the overall pattern.

(Pattern: Successful recovery demands the addict learn to be accountable for his consequences. Sometimes those consequences come when the addict is doing good things, but this is life on life's terms. A boundary was breached which resulted in your consequence of saying he cannot come home. To support his recovery and your integrity, you must be consistent with your word, especially in early recovery. After much proof of change, you can consider re-negotiating where things lie, but only after a track record is established on both sides of the fence.)

(Particular: I should help! He's trying! I don't want to abandon him at just the time he's working so hard! -- This is a false truth. The pain he faces now in his real life consequences, and the way he sees it as perhaps being abandoned by those closest to him in his time of need, are GOOD. It will remind him later of the pain of real life consequences. It will provide him NOW with fuel to continue plowing through his consequences, to get through to the end. He must go THROUGH, to get to the end, otherwise he just recycles. Same with your boundaries.)

You're doing the right thing! It hurts, yes! But it's right!

Sending encouragement,

CLMI

sojourner

wow catlovermi: very, very helpful. Thank you...