hello-kitty

Yes. We don't want to solve our own problems so we try to solve theirs for them. Our lives are unmanageable because we are consumed with managing someone elses life.

It's hard but we have to let go and let god. We didn't cause it. We can't control it. We can't cure it.

You sound like a nice guy. Isn't there something else you'd rather be doing than worrying about her life and her family? Then you should do it. It makes it easier. I force myself to do what I know is best for me and my son. My sons father must learn to make good decisions for himself. I cannot fix that for him. I might be a band-aid for a while. But in the end he must learn to fix himself. Just like I must fix myself.

The world would be a much better place if we focused on being responsible for ourselves, instead of trying to be responsible for others.

hope213

welcome logan, you can not save her,all you can do is save yourself. let go or get dragged. you deserve better. as you stated,she may never get clean or sober. my son is my addict. you can not love them clean. ask any mom here,if it could be done our children would be clean. keep coming back. we r all here for you. prayers for you & for her.

Theresa

Breakingfree, your statement is wonderful, and helpful: "our heart screaming for us to step back and detach."

For me, not doing so, not detaching when the warning signs went off, was very self destructive.

Logan, I had someone in my life who "knew" so much about me--and I found it upsetting. Splendra's comment is good: what about YOU, not her?

I'm talking to myself her as well. When I start thinking about the person who I was in a disfunctional relationship with, I try to stop--and redirect my focus to me: "What about me?" I ask, "What about me? Why waste my mind and minutes on him? What about me." Again, like Breakingfree noted, it is my mind screaming to detach and give myself some needed attention.

MyJoey

Logan,

Welcome, I know this hurts and you miss her. You sound so smart and have had your own hardships in life and now dealing with the addiction of someone you care about. I wish you could move on and get away from her, she will only bring you more pain and you deserve so much more. Don't let her, become your addiction, as everyone has told you addicts can only help themselves and they pray on people that will feel sorry for them. I understand she has had a hard life, but she is using it as an excuse for her behavior now. She is doing what she wants to do, she plans this in advance. As you said she can quit, but she chooses not to. While she is making bad choices for herself, make some healthly ones for you and please move on. There are other woman that would love a man like you in their lives, woman that can give you the same love and respect that you give them, isn't that what really makes a relationship work? You know nothing good can come from this relationship even if she quits, you will always be worried that the drugs will come back in her life. I don't know your age, but is this someone you want to settle down with, have children? Your better and deserve so much more. Julie

logan77

thank you all so much. I feel like a fool for getting this attention. Trust me, I'm not making any of this up.
Do I care about who she could be? or who she is? but, I do know a big part of who she is is real, and I've seen it. but so is the other, painful half

having contact with her now rewards her. I don't wanna see her the way she
is right now. I wanna remember her just like the last few days we spent together those are MY MEMORIES. I won't let them get taken away by her addiction. The letters are MY LETTERS, MY PICTURES. I won't let them get taken away.

part of me feels useless for not going out and doing something. however, what am I gonna do? shoot every dealer? bust into a strip club and carry her out? to everyone here: Hasn't addiction taken enough of our loved ones?
Is a form of standing up being wise and standing down? exiting the ring because you know the fight is rigged? Looking at your team mate and sadly realizing this team mate is also moonlighting on the other side? Is giving up making me smarter or making me a quitter? Who's fighting here? seems like it's me in an empty ring.

If a friend came to me with this story, I'd say walk away. I'm lousy for not heeding my own advice....
EVERY one at ALA-NON said walk away. PERMANENTLY. they said it off the record after the meeting.

the only things I'm getting out of this are: PAIN, loneliness, and a number of happy memories I hold close. that's it. Even my stress hives have come back.

so...why can't I just let go? I might have a hero complex. I don't wanna save her....but wish I had what we did before the insanity got worse.

TO ALL,
please go to You Tube and type in Duane Peters That's Life. It's an unfinished documentary about this very subject. I interviewed both people in it for a mag. I work for. lemme know if it inspires any of you....

I do a lot for me....but come nightfall it all seems incomplete. I will gladly provide MY story. What do you wanna know? I need some direction to offer some info.

logan77

hi all,

AS usual, she just called me. I didn't pick up. I'm losin' it. She's at her old dealer's house and now texts me oddly with: "I will never forget my dream boy I will die with u as a dream" and "I will wallow in my own self pity I don't know what will happen to me." These sound like ploys to get me to just pick up my phone.
her voice mail was the worst....how she's sorry, and she couldn't take being back at her gram's she wanted to just get away for a while, and how she still loves me and how her feelings are true and that obviously she needs to be out of the area and how her feelings for me still cannot help her stop.

b.s.? to an xtent. she planned this binge. enough said. I'm glad I didn't "pick something up" cuz WE ALL KNOW what COULD happen if I drove there right now.
please help me in any way.
I will go play guitar, anything to help myself right now.

logan77

point well taken. yes, she's drunk at the moment.
I didn't pick up and I won't. her mom, sister, and grandma know where she's at. let her mom step up to the plate. I'm done.

me? rocked the guitar, cleaned up since a fam. friend is spending the night.
I'll go to a movie, read, work out, spin records, hold OUR python, as in, the very one she couldn't even manage to give fresh water to. pathetic.

I'm strong enough to KNOW that her affection is seperate from her usage. however, I'm not going to take her crap, either I deserve better. she mentioned that I deserve a happy life and a woman that's not screwed up.

hell, her voice mail asked to hear my voice to say goodbye if I didn't want anything else to do with her any more. insulted! why does she deserve any closure from me at this point? lame.
she rambled on how she wants a new life, get enough $ to leave and the nonsense "I won't go into how I'd get it..." I bet my life she'll go back stripping. not my prob.

I'm man enough to say I care immensely. but I cannot care about someone that doesn't care about themselves, or 100% FULLY realize the pain she causes others.

if I score that teaching gig next week....I'll be teaching the youth again, and most importantly, not to become like the woman I (gulp) love.

standing strong. ending pain today. I won't be controlled.
if I can help any one here, lemme know.
please, if possible, continue being here for me.

splendra

Whatever it takes get yourself free....

logan77

this is gonna hurt.

at least I'm sane enough to know the affection part was true. but she "cheated" on me with dope one too many times.
she CHOSE to go back to the dealer.
oddly enough, they HATE each other, but they're linked by their sickness.
man, you should hear them fight. it's demented; she chose to hang out with trash and a guy that treats her just like her step dad, the man she originally fled from....scary, huh?

standing strong, still.
until she cleans up, no contact from me. I might receive a letter, but won't guarantee she'll get one back. she has a lot of work to do. I did MORE than ANYONE HAS EVER done for her, including her mom who cares, but she's overwhelmed and long accepted that her daughter will ultimately do what she's gonna do. gimme some credit, her mom has a few years more experience with her than I do, ok?

thanks all.
will hit ALA-NON next meeting.

NeedingHelp7

I'm sorry I just found this a funny word picture. So true!!!

Logan, I pretty much know when a man is done. And you are done.
You will be alright, and you have better friends yet to meet.

Kimmieh

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I get this very strong feeling that you want to be her knight in shining armor and I had a strong reaction when I read your very first post where you said something along the lines of "what would I teach her by being a doormat." I can understand where you are coming from, but while she is an addict, she is also an adult.

I have been wanting to reprimand ABF's friends for buying him alcohol just like you want to hunt down the dealers. They are adults and we have to respect their decisions even if they are bad decisions. As long as you feel you want to teach her something and be a role model of sorts, it's not a healthy relationship, even if she were sober (in my opinion).

I am just saying this because I have been there and as most people here said, it's a good time to look at yourself and keeping or making yourself healthy and sane.

Good luck!

ZombieWife

1. how to detatch with love and not feel guilt if GOD FORBId something happened.

It's not easy for any of us. I'm not sure you can have it 100% here. I can detach with love, but there will always be some measure of guilt (even if it's at 2% guilt and 98% no guilt, it's still there.)

What I have learned is that many addicts care more about how you ACT when you feel guilty. Some rely on you breaking down and being more lenient, dropping boundaries, etc.

I can't tell you how to detach w/love in the perfect way. All I can say is that I struggled quite a bit with that very thing (I still do,) but it gets easier the more you learn to love and respect yourself.

2. how to stop myself from being Charles Bronson and hunting these low lives down.

If I had a dollar for every time I wanted to beat the heck out of the people who make the dope, who sell the dope, who have any part of it. But, in the end I had to realize that there are low lives everywhere. When she's ready to ditch them, she will. No amount of us threatening this or that will change things. I wish it could. I have fantasies still about harming people who are involved with exploiting addicts. Yet, w/o the "customer" there would be no sellers/pushers/or bakers.

3. how to admit I care this much, cuz I do, but calmly put it to the side and focus better on me. I can focus, but only to some xtent.

It's hard. I think folks like us have to hit our bottom as well. I know I did. It was ugly and it killed a lot of my feelings for my Recovering Addict Husband. I wasn't sure I could love him again. But, I do. And it's growing every day. We're on a good path right now.

It's different for everyone, though. And it's not like we can say "ok, this will be my bottom." It just happens. At least that's how it happened for me. I don't know that it was instantaneous so much as cumulative. And I just realized what had happened in a sudden manner.

4. sever all ties, except receiving letters from her until she's clean for a consistent amount of time.

It's hard because you care and you're a human being. You love and feel and expose yourself to hurt. I did not sever ties. So, this route wasn't the one for me. I was close, but he pulled out of the evil before that occurred. I don't have much advice here, but I can offer an ear and a shoulder here.

5. ever even feel like bothering to trust her again....self-preservation.

My husband has been clean for almost 2 years and I still don't fully trust him. It's gotten better. He's had to earn it and he's worked his ass off for it. It was his choice. He knew what he stood to lose and he knew I was serious about leaving if he didn't get things together. It was up to him to give me reasons to trust him again. It was up to me how I reacted to his "hard work."

the trust part for me is the hardest, but I've noticed that it does get better. I couldn't do it alone, though. I do attend Alanon meetings, but I also see a therapist for these specific issues as well. I needed help.

6. Humbly admitting in the 5 months we've been together: she's had 4 episodes in 5 months.

What's humble about admitting that? You have to ask yourself why this is a humbling affair for YOU. Were your ideals shaken? Did you have her on a pedestal? Are you trying to "fix" something that you think is broken in her? We're all disappointed, but when I think of "humble" I think that you have been too arrogant to do something. Were you too arrogant to see this in the past? I'm a little confused on this!

7. scared to accept perhaps some people do drugs all their lives.

Some do. Some have 5 years of sobriety and then relapse. For some, it's not how they deal with the sobriety, but how they are able to pick themselves back up and get into a program again. Or, if they spin out of control and give up. Again, I think most of us here have resolved ourselves to this fact. It's not that I personally accept it. I still hold on to that hope that it won't happen. We all want to hope sometimes. But, there is that hard reality, too. That's what support groups are for (i.e. this message board/friends/alanon.)

8. her mom is wrapped up in her new life with her soon to be hubby and doesn't want her daughter moving back. she has no place to go! her grandma was nice enough to take her back twice already.
she cannot live with me, not healthy for either of us right now.

she's a big girl. She can figure it out. She has the wits and sense to score drugs, right? to find a place to crash when she's using? There are shelters out there. That's another part of the guilt factor. Addicts count on you feeling bad that she's out on the street during a blizzard. We all have instincts to survive. That's part of our biological make-up here. Unless she's suicidal? (and I'm talking truly suicidal, not just drama queen bunk.)

9. how to cope with the fact she was a stripper years ago and scared what she might do now for $ and dope. she has little employment history and she's broke.

She might prostitute herself. She might have already. That's her cross to bear. If that's a breaking point with or a "point of no return" then explain that to her. If she breaks that point of contention, then are you ready to move on? I personally think that's a very sensible line to draw for boundaries. I would probably add that to my "list of boundaries" as well.

I don't know if I helped at all. Sorry if it's so long and seems that I'm rambling.

Please remember we're all here to support and help. But sometimes, the answers are just not there, not even for us.

(huge hugs!)

kj3880

You talk about giving up a fight...but it is not your fight to fight. It is hers and hers alone. We take away a person's dignity when we take away their choices. God gave us all free will. She is making choices. Bad ones, for sure, but they are hers to make. Not yours. You seem to feel personally bound up in her success or failure, as though you have a hand in it. You really don't, my dear. You:
Didn't cause it. Can't control it. Can't cure it.

Even a short time relationship, like yours, can be very painful when the other person leaves. It feels like rejection, and in a way, it is. Give yourself time to heal before you get into any more dating. Do yourself a favor and work some steps with a sponsor. Try to figure out what there is about you that attracted this broken woman. It's hard work, but very rewarding! I'm learning so much about myself in the steps!

Love,
KJ

helpformyson

Life with an addict is financially, emotionally, physically & psychologically draining. I feel totally spent every day. I feel all the emotions that you feel....anger, sadness, resentment, lack of trust. I do believe that continuing to live with these negative emotions will kill you with the stress. As much as I love my one and only child, I had to cut him loose or go down with him. He knows where he stands with me...I love him, but he has to stay away from me until he decides to get clean. The seperation hurts, but living with all his negative drama and bad choices (which equal the stress) is worse.

cece1960

You're sounding stronger each day Logan.
Keep posting...we're walking with you
((Hugs)))

logan77

my family friend was kind enough to come from LI with my old dog, border collie Maggie to help me. I've been running in the park all am with her. it's helped.
those who say it's not my fight...you're right. I would NEVER have her clean cuz I FORCED her. that would be artificial and totally unrealistic.
I didn't reply to any calls or texts, this shows I'm standing by and communicating/allowing the behavior to continue cuz I give her what she wants: contact with me. My ALA-NON material helps. I remember the three c's. I never blamed myself for her addiction. I feel right with myself on that note.
one cannot lead a horse to water.....she has the power to stop. she stopped pot, right? so she has somethin' inside. I knew immediately stopping Abilify would result in this. docs. concluded her chemical make up is great for this drug, cuz they saw positive results in a mere 4 days. but with any psychotropic drug, if you stop without docs. ok, you crash n' burn like she did.
I didn't set unrealistic expectations, they were low. yet, she magically found a way to hit a new low
yeah, she's most likely sleeping with this creep. they have in the past. that is just dirty, loveless sex. we had 100% honest, love when we slept together. that's the difference. I wish I was at the conclusion step, to be grateful etc. for the happy times. but I won't rush it.
I KNOW I'm grateful for this...

1. seeing her for the first time, TRULY looking into her enchanting eyes.
2. being a positive factor in helping her get clean for a month
3. sharing intimate moments together
4.enjoying activities together and feeling like the only 2 people on the planet.
5. each of us gathering the courage to share our true feelings, without hiding them any longer
6. exchanging very personal letters
7. being viewed for who I am, without her trying to change me as past women tried to do with me
8. making her smile, a more honest smile than previous pics I've seen of her
9. knowing I could care about someone again

well, i wish I could rest on the above...but the time for it is in the far future.
baby steps for me. thanks all. please don't give up on me if I keep posting.
any one watch that documentary I posted about?

Freedom1990

I had to go back and re-read through this thread again to make sure I had the facts straight on this girl.

Somehow you've weaved this fantasy that her 'affection' for you is separate from her addiction, and that 'love' was there.

Oh contraire, mon fraire.

Lust perhaps, maybe even a sick twisted love on her part, but not a healthy love in any way, shape, or form.

You see, we addicts don't understand anything about healthy love because our own self-loathing, resentment, self-pity, anger, etc etc, drives us to medicate over and over and over. We have no capacity to truly love another because there is no self-love until we embrace recovery and begin that journey of self-forgiveness, of accepting who we are, and realizing that God 'don't make no junk'.

Keep working on self. You'll get there.

logan77

easy, now. think carefully there....
ALA-NON, and every artist I interviewed who has struggled with addiction, and every one of her doctors I spoke with...stated affection and addiction are seperate. her addiction has nothing to do with whether I was a good lover, friend, or bf.

yes, her affection was true, but her addiction blurs her thought process to the point where she doesn't TRULY understand the pain she causes.
stating "If you truly loved me, you'd stop" is counter-productive.
I'm strong enough to know this isn't being done to hurt me intentionally.
yes, she needs to discover self-love before she can 100% HONESTLY love another. through out her madness, there was affection.
This I know. If I didn't, I wouldn't be attending meetings, or done half the things I've been doing. However, I'm no doormat and won't even allow her to speak such words til she cleans up her pathetic act.

her family said they've never seen her so happy with another man before.
that ain't no lie. she wasn't high, or drunk, either. that's the her I care for.
not this insanse, heartless monster.

will channel positive energy to myself. thanks all!
it doesn't help she's currently 10 min. from me with that human piece of garbage. very hard to not go there.....but I won't. what for? she's not ready to let go of junk. I used to debate the difference between addicts and junkies. but sadly, at the end of the day, they're the same; they're using. she can be called a junkie in my book if she swaps services for dope or $. I cannot allow that final pain to control me. that's too much for me to handle right now.

Impurrfect

((Logan))

You are sounding a bit better, and I hope you continue to focus more on you.

I understand what you're saying about her affection. I don't doubt my XABF loves me, to this day, as much as he can. Unfortunately, he loves the drugs more. I had to stop focusing on what WAS and stay focused on what IS.

I'm a recovering addict. I know that, 2 years into my recovery, I am just now getting more comfortable in my own skin. I'm a codie on top of that, so I have a lot of work to do on ME.

It's good to see you working through all this. It's easy to SAY "don't worry about what she's doing", but oh, so hard, to do. Been-there-done-that and got the t-shirt in 4 different colors Keep reading/posting and going to your meetings. We all take baby steps, and we get there in our own time.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

Freedom1990

You are correct in that her addiction has nothing to do with whether you were a good lover, friend, or boyfriend.

I still don't get the separation of addiction and affection. Addiction permeates every aspect of our lives.

You didn't interview this particular artist who struggled with addiction, did you? *grin*

At any rate, I wish you nothing but the best.