? pupil size
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? pupil size
I am trying really hard to give hubby the benefit of the doubt that he is really not taking any pills at all now.... I want to snoop but all that ever did was cause me to worry about things that I am not in a position to do anything about right now.... If he is still taking them he is hiding it better because I am not seeing the 'slack jawwed stare' that I was seeing in the evenings.... That was something pretty recent tho and I think if he is still taking them he would ALWAYS wait until I go to bed since I had mentioned this was a reason I started worrying about him.
The one thing I am still seeing and it is something that he wouldnt be able to hide is that he still has small pupils.... They were never teeny tiny but in a room that is far from bright he would still have small pupils. I have only been noticing his pupil size for the last few months and in the first week after he promised he would quit I DID notice in increase in size but now they are back to the smaller size I was seeing before.... How reliable is the pupil size as an indicator of vicodin use?
The one thing I am still seeing and it is something that he wouldnt be able to hide is that he still has small pupils.... They were never teeny tiny but in a room that is far from bright he would still have small pupils. I have only been noticing his pupil size for the last few months and in the first week after he promised he would quit I DID notice in increase in size but now they are back to the smaller size I was seeing before.... How reliable is the pupil size as an indicator of vicodin use?
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I think trusting your gut is more reliable. I hope you aren't spending too much time thinking about his pupil size. Obsessing over whether or not he's using drugs is really unhealthy. If he is using, and if he is an addict, then eventually the slack jawed stare will come back.
The real issue is the lack of trust. And unfortunately, when you are in a relationship with an addict, I've found it impossible to overcome. Are you willing to live with a lack of trust in your relationship with your husband for ever? If not, then learning how to real set boundaries for yourself is key for your future. Otherwise suspicions and mistrust could run your life forever.
The real issue is the lack of trust. And unfortunately, when you are in a relationship with an addict, I've found it impossible to overcome. Are you willing to live with a lack of trust in your relationship with your husband for ever? If not, then learning how to real set boundaries for yourself is key for your future. Otherwise suspicions and mistrust could run your life forever.
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To NeedingHelp:
It is that zoned out look he would get when he had taken a pill or 2. It sometimes would be accompanied with the nodding which he insisted was just napping.
To Hello-Kitty:
I dont want to obsess. I want to believe that he is being honest with me but I know that he senses that I am wondering if he is being honest and I think that is effecting our interaction with each other. If he is trying I dont want to be harming our recovery by not trusting him. This is his first time of saying he will quit and I dont have a pattern that I can look back on as to whether I can believe him or not. I know that even if he is being honest in trying to quit doesnt guarantee that he will succeed but if he is trying then I want to give him a chance.
BUT if he isnt trying at all and just doing more to hide it then I feel I can stop obsessing over whether he is sincere and just go forward with my plans to get me & the kids out of this situation as soon as I am able.
It is partly because I just have a need to KNOW but I really think that only by knowing will I be able to set the boundaries. Right now I just feel like it is a wait and see thing and I feel more out of control now than when I knew that he was taking them and worried that he was taking too many. Does this make sense?
It is that zoned out look he would get when he had taken a pill or 2. It sometimes would be accompanied with the nodding which he insisted was just napping.
To Hello-Kitty:
I dont want to obsess. I want to believe that he is being honest with me but I know that he senses that I am wondering if he is being honest and I think that is effecting our interaction with each other. If he is trying I dont want to be harming our recovery by not trusting him. This is his first time of saying he will quit and I dont have a pattern that I can look back on as to whether I can believe him or not. I know that even if he is being honest in trying to quit doesnt guarantee that he will succeed but if he is trying then I want to give him a chance.
BUT if he isnt trying at all and just doing more to hide it then I feel I can stop obsessing over whether he is sincere and just go forward with my plans to get me & the kids out of this situation as soon as I am able.
It is partly because I just have a need to KNOW but I really think that only by knowing will I be able to set the boundaries. Right now I just feel like it is a wait and see thing and I feel more out of control now than when I knew that he was taking them and worried that he was taking too many. Does this make sense?
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Focusing on his pupil size is just another way for us to take the focus off of ourself and what we need to do for our own recovery from codependency. I think you know what's going on here.
When we stop playing drug cop we can use our energy and time to decide what we are going to do to get into a more sane living situation, whatever that may be for us. If he's is not (and I mean right this minute, not the way he could be) making you happy most of the time, then why would you want to be with him????
Love,
KJ
When we stop playing drug cop we can use our energy and time to decide what we are going to do to get into a more sane living situation, whatever that may be for us. If he's is not (and I mean right this minute, not the way he could be) making you happy most of the time, then why would you want to be with him????
Love,
KJ
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I think it absolutely makes sense. I used to obsess all the time. It made sense. I wanted to know if my ex was lying and using drugs OR if he was being honest and trying to be the man he promised he was. However, the two were unrelated. At some point I came grips with the fact that the drugs were only a symptom of the problem. They weren't THE problem.
Actually, the problem was with me. The problem was that whether or not my ex was using, he had destroyed the trust in our relationship. Our relationship was sick. And that was MY problem. Not his.
By the way, my ex did eventually relapse because he wasn't committed to actively working a program of recovery. Subconsciously, before I was willing to even acknowledge it, I had noticed the addict behaviors before the relapse even happened. However I was in denial and kept doubting myself. Even when it was absolutely obvious he was using again, I was in denial about it - hoping he was being honest about being clean. It was very sad. I had to accept that I couldn't make him better. I would never really know if he was using again because my thoughts were clouded by my desire for him to get better. I had shift my focus to myself and doing what was right for me and my child right now, instead of waiting for him to change.
Trust your gut. Do you think he's using again? Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Work on yourself so that no matter what he does, you have the confidence to stand by your convictions and do whats right for you and your children. Because if he IS using again, you will know soon enough.
Keep reading and posting here. And maybe check out some books on codependency (like codependent no more) and setting boundaries. It can't hurt!
Actually, the problem was with me. The problem was that whether or not my ex was using, he had destroyed the trust in our relationship. Our relationship was sick. And that was MY problem. Not his.
By the way, my ex did eventually relapse because he wasn't committed to actively working a program of recovery. Subconsciously, before I was willing to even acknowledge it, I had noticed the addict behaviors before the relapse even happened. However I was in denial and kept doubting myself. Even when it was absolutely obvious he was using again, I was in denial about it - hoping he was being honest about being clean. It was very sad. I had to accept that I couldn't make him better. I would never really know if he was using again because my thoughts were clouded by my desire for him to get better. I had shift my focus to myself and doing what was right for me and my child right now, instead of waiting for him to change.
Trust your gut. Do you think he's using again? Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Work on yourself so that no matter what he does, you have the confidence to stand by your convictions and do whats right for you and your children. Because if he IS using again, you will know soon enough.
Keep reading and posting here. And maybe check out some books on codependency (like codependent no more) and setting boundaries. It can't hurt!
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Even IF he isn't using, with no program of recovery in place, chances are it won't last long.
As the others have already stated, keeping the focus on you and what you can do to improve your own life is time much better spent.
As the others have already stated, keeping the focus on you and what you can do to improve your own life is time much better spent.
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is your husband doing anything else toward recovery? i mean, other than saying he wants to quit or has quit, is that all he has done? a little more information about that might help you get more specific feedback.
i understand the suspicion and the fear, and i think if all he is giving toward sobriety is hopeful words, then i think your fear and suspicion will sadly be warranted and ongoing.
if he has completed rehab or is working with NA or AA in a committed manner, then the chance of lies and relapse are of course there, but there is a bit more hope of eventual sobriety. in which case, taking the long view will be helpful for you, and getting your own help.
multiple attempts at sobriety are not uncommon. however, if all he's doing is talking and trying on his own, he has very minimal hope of succeeding. the pull is just so strong, without help. (the right kind of help....not you!)
you'll need to decide what the terms are, for you, for staying with him. just don't give up and disappear into a life of isolation and craziness with him. stay connected.
all the best for you in your challenges.
i understand the suspicion and the fear, and i think if all he is giving toward sobriety is hopeful words, then i think your fear and suspicion will sadly be warranted and ongoing.
if he has completed rehab or is working with NA or AA in a committed manner, then the chance of lies and relapse are of course there, but there is a bit more hope of eventual sobriety. in which case, taking the long view will be helpful for you, and getting your own help.
multiple attempts at sobriety are not uncommon. however, if all he's doing is talking and trying on his own, he has very minimal hope of succeeding. the pull is just so strong, without help. (the right kind of help....not you!)
you'll need to decide what the terms are, for you, for staying with him. just don't give up and disappear into a life of isolation and craziness with him. stay connected.
all the best for you in your challenges.
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It is that zoned out look he would get when he had taken a pill or 2. It sometimes would be accompanied with the nodding which he insisted was just napping.
The best thing to do the next time you catch him, is to HAVE A PLAN of what you will do? What boundaries are you going to put in place to protect yourself and your children?
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I know you are looking for a definite answer. Is he using? Will he stop? I've been there. I drove myself crazy trying to determine ABF's pupil size, was he scratching, was he zoned out, etc. I thought that I just needed the answer--the truth. I wanted to know the answer as to whether I should stay or whether I should go ahead and give up on the relationship. I thought that my life would be better if ABF would stop using. That would solve all our problems.
However, it is not as simple as that. For one thing, I was putting all of my chances at happeness on his actions. I was so busy trying to figure out if he was using, that I forgot to take care of myself.
I still get those days where I start obsessing about ABF's actions. I have to look at myself and try to figure out what in my life I am trying to avoid. Why am I so focused on his actions, and not paying attention to my own?
The thing is, my ABF is an addict. That means that there will always be that danger of him relapsing. Right now, he is in active recovery. He takes care of himself, he reads books, he goes to his psychiatrist, etc. However, I have to remember to stay out of his recovery and work on my own.
Even when he stops using, things don't magically get better. He is very emotional. He still has a problem with lying--esp. if he is trying to hide something that he thinks will upset me. I don't trust him when it comes to pills. He's whiny, etc. Things have not gotten majically better just because he's stopped using.
I try my best to stay focused on my own needs. This website helps me a lot, and so do the readings that come off of this website. I try to ask for what I need, and stand up for myself. My actions are the only things that I can control.
I know how hard this all is. This is a great website to meet other people who are going through the same issues.
However, it is not as simple as that. For one thing, I was putting all of my chances at happeness on his actions. I was so busy trying to figure out if he was using, that I forgot to take care of myself.
I still get those days where I start obsessing about ABF's actions. I have to look at myself and try to figure out what in my life I am trying to avoid. Why am I so focused on his actions, and not paying attention to my own?
The thing is, my ABF is an addict. That means that there will always be that danger of him relapsing. Right now, he is in active recovery. He takes care of himself, he reads books, he goes to his psychiatrist, etc. However, I have to remember to stay out of his recovery and work on my own.
Even when he stops using, things don't magically get better. He is very emotional. He still has a problem with lying--esp. if he is trying to hide something that he thinks will upset me. I don't trust him when it comes to pills. He's whiny, etc. Things have not gotten majically better just because he's stopped using.
I try my best to stay focused on my own needs. This website helps me a lot, and so do the readings that come off of this website. I try to ask for what I need, and stand up for myself. My actions are the only things that I can control.
I know how hard this all is. This is a great website to meet other people who are going through the same issues.
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He is not in any kind of a program... just says that he quit. I know the statistics of his chances of that working, especially if he tries it by himself several times.... seems like people get worse with each failed attempt.
And I do hear (and listen lol) to what everyone is telling me about working on myself and letting him do what he is going to do. I know what my plan is if he isnt being honest but it is a little more long term than some others. I dont have much of a support system (financially) if either I left him or had him to leave and he wasnt there for financial support. At the moment I have less than zero income... hopefully that is about to change bigtime! If I caught him tonight... in the act... there is still nothing that I could do to speed up my plan to get out of the situation.
I know to guard my emotions with him I just wish I knew whether to get on with the actual ACT of detaching myself emotionally from our relationship.
And I do hear (and listen lol) to what everyone is telling me about working on myself and letting him do what he is going to do. I know what my plan is if he isnt being honest but it is a little more long term than some others. I dont have much of a support system (financially) if either I left him or had him to leave and he wasnt there for financial support. At the moment I have less than zero income... hopefully that is about to change bigtime! If I caught him tonight... in the act... there is still nothing that I could do to speed up my plan to get out of the situation.
I know to guard my emotions with him I just wish I knew whether to get on with the actual ACT of detaching myself emotionally from our relationship.
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Originally Posted by Suspicious 
I know to guard my emotions with him I just wish I knew whether to get on with the actual ACT of detaching myself emotionally from our relationship.
If drugs had been my only problem, it would stand to reason that once I put the drugs down and left them alone, I would be okay.
There would be no reason on God's green earth for any form of recovery, whether it be 12 step programs or counseling/therapy or whatever.
I didn't start using drugs because I was brimming over with self-esteem, pride and self-love.
You have choices in this matter. You can start getting yourself to a support group like Alanon where you will find others like yourself. There you will find love, acceptance, and the tools to start making your life better for yourself regardless of what he is doing, and regardless of what the current financial situation is.
Or...you can stay stuck right where you're at.
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I do understand what you are saying Freedom. And I am NOT making any kind of excuse for his addiction by saying this but his abuse of vicodin started with a legit back injury 3 yrs ago. He rarely even drank before this or even now for that matter. He doesnt 'party'. I know that it doesnt make his addiction any more noble nor does it lessen the impact on his loved ones but he didnt make an effort to go out and numb some emotional pain with drugs. Of course, I dont know what is in his head or heart, but if I could guess what emotional pain he would be numbing NOW it would be the guilt of letting himself get addicted to his meds to the point of abuse.
As for sticking where I am at... as I have said, I do have a plan that I will follow... not might, not if he crosses 'this' line, not if it gets 'this' bad... I WILL follow it if he is abusing his meds once I am financially able to. I have 3 school age kids and no income at all so I dont see how making us homeless or penniless just to show him what my boundaries are is the best choice.
As for sticking where I am at... as I have said, I do have a plan that I will follow... not might, not if he crosses 'this' line, not if it gets 'this' bad... I WILL follow it if he is abusing his meds once I am financially able to. I have 3 school age kids and no income at all so I dont see how making us homeless or penniless just to show him what my boundaries are is the best choice.
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I don't see where anyone asked you to be homeless or penniless, so I'm not sure where that is coming from.
In the end, you will do what you need to do, and that's all that counts.
Take what you can use, and throw the rest away.
:ghug
In the end, you will do what you need to do, and that's all that counts.
Take what you can use, and throw the rest away.
:ghug
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I took your last sentence 'or you can stay stuck right where you are at' to mean that I should be prepared to leave if he is still abusing or stay where I am at.
I am confidant that I will do what needs to be done I just worry about being able to detach myself in such a manner to not cause my kids more trauma. I guess I mean, can I do it where only I know that I have done it? Is that even possible? I have read on here several ways to prepare financially on the sly and that is kinda what I am going to have to do and I think that an obvious detachment on my part would raise red flags for my Hubby.
I dont know... I am just rambling on about my random 'what if' worries and what I really need is to just learn to let whatever happens, happen and then deal with it all the while getting myself prepared for the worst.
Hmmmm that might be my problem right there. I feel that if I am preparing for the worst that I am basically saying that I expect the worst from him and that goes against what I should be feeling. I dont know how to expect the best outcome AND prepare for the worst AT THE SAME TIME.
All the same... sorry I took such offense to your advice.
I am confidant that I will do what needs to be done I just worry about being able to detach myself in such a manner to not cause my kids more trauma. I guess I mean, can I do it where only I know that I have done it? Is that even possible? I have read on here several ways to prepare financially on the sly and that is kinda what I am going to have to do and I think that an obvious detachment on my part would raise red flags for my Hubby.
I dont know... I am just rambling on about my random 'what if' worries and what I really need is to just learn to let whatever happens, happen and then deal with it all the while getting myself prepared for the worst.
Hmmmm that might be my problem right there. I feel that if I am preparing for the worst that I am basically saying that I expect the worst from him and that goes against what I should be feeling. I dont know how to expect the best outcome AND prepare for the worst AT THE SAME TIME.
All the same... sorry I took such offense to your advice.
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Originally Posted by Suspicious
I took your last sentence 'or you can stay stuck right where you are at' to mean that I should be prepared to leave if he is still abusing or stay where I am at.
I am confidant that I will do what needs to be done I just worry about being able to detach myself in such a manner to not cause my kids more trauma. I guess I mean, can I do it where only I know that I have done it? Is that even possible? I have read on here several ways to prepare financially on the sly and that is kinda what I am going to have to do and I think that an obvious detachment on my part would raise red flags for my Hubby.
I dont know... I am just rambling on about my random 'what if' worries and what I really need is to just learn to let whatever happens, happen and then deal with it all the while getting myself prepared for the worst.
Hmmmm that might be my problem right there. I feel that if I am preparing for the worst that I am basically saying that I expect the worst from him and that goes against what I should be feeling. I dont know how to expect the best outcome AND prepare for the worst AT THE SAME TIME.
All the same... sorry I took such offense to your advice.
I am confidant that I will do what needs to be done I just worry about being able to detach myself in such a manner to not cause my kids more trauma. I guess I mean, can I do it where only I know that I have done it? Is that even possible? I have read on here several ways to prepare financially on the sly and that is kinda what I am going to have to do and I think that an obvious detachment on my part would raise red flags for my Hubby.
I dont know... I am just rambling on about my random 'what if' worries and what I really need is to just learn to let whatever happens, happen and then deal with it all the while getting myself prepared for the worst.
Hmmmm that might be my problem right there. I feel that if I am preparing for the worst that I am basically saying that I expect the worst from him and that goes against what I should be feeling. I dont know how to expect the best outcome AND prepare for the worst AT THE SAME TIME.
All the same... sorry I took such offense to your advice.
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My apologies. I can see where my post could have led to misinterpretation. I was referring to the fact that you aren't particularly willing to detach emotionally at this point, or at least that's what I'm getting out of your posts.
I find that when I live in the moment, accept things as being the way that they are at that exact moment, and base my next step on that, I usually make the right choice.
I used to always leave the ball in his court (back when I was married to an active addict/alkie) with the 'what ifs' or waiting for the other shoe to drop. It was an exhausting way to live.
I completely lost myself in the process.
I don't ever want to go back to that way of life again.
I find that when I live in the moment, accept things as being the way that they are at that exact moment, and base my next step on that, I usually make the right choice.
I used to always leave the ball in his court (back when I was married to an active addict/alkie) with the 'what ifs' or waiting for the other shoe to drop. It was an exhausting way to live.
I completely lost myself in the process.
I don't ever want to go back to that way of life again.
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I don't know why our advice is upsetting you so much...wait a minute, I do! Because usually when something pushes our buttons it's because they are too close to a hot spot!
You feel bad because you are worried about being homeless and broke, but the ironic thing is that relying financially on someone on drugs makes it probable that this will happen if he keeps on it. Drugs end one of three ways (untreated): Jails, Institutions, or Death!
If he isn't in treatment, I can almost guarantee you he will relapse, and we go right back to where we left off when we relapse, every time.
The best use of your time right now, whether he is in current active addiction or not, IMO, is to work on how you can begin to get an independent income. Even if you have to go to the State for money for a while, start up the paperwork. Or begin a job search, daycare search, whatever you need to do. Maybe more training. It is a better use of your time and energy than getting obsessed with his behavior, and will make it easier to have some serenity, short and long term.
You also need to get more connected to others in your situation, IMO. Can you get to a Alanon or Naranon meeting, or similar? You could use more knowledge about codependency or drug addiction at this point.
Love,.
KJ
You feel bad because you are worried about being homeless and broke, but the ironic thing is that relying financially on someone on drugs makes it probable that this will happen if he keeps on it. Drugs end one of three ways (untreated): Jails, Institutions, or Death!
If he isn't in treatment, I can almost guarantee you he will relapse, and we go right back to where we left off when we relapse, every time.
The best use of your time right now, whether he is in current active addiction or not, IMO, is to work on how you can begin to get an independent income. Even if you have to go to the State for money for a while, start up the paperwork. Or begin a job search, daycare search, whatever you need to do. Maybe more training. It is a better use of your time and energy than getting obsessed with his behavior, and will make it easier to have some serenity, short and long term.
You also need to get more connected to others in your situation, IMO. Can you get to a Alanon or Naranon meeting, or similar? You could use more knowledge about codependency or drug addiction at this point.
Love,.
KJ
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If I caught him tonight... in the act... there is still nothing that I could do to speed up my plan to get out of the situation.
Sounds like your energy would be much better spent sorting out your problems then his problems. I'd focus on being self-sufficient first and then worry about what he is doing.
You can only control yourself and your own choices. I hope for his sake that he has truly "quit". But without a plan for recovery, I certainly wouldn't count on it for long.
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