This is just FUBAR

Old 03-22-2009, 03:27 PM
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This is just FUBAR

After our lovely week of spill our guts and tell mom so much that she has a kinipshin fit - this weekend we're back to silliness. First he was supposed to get a two hour leave on saturday. was supposed to call me and let me know what time to be there but no call. so saturday around lunch i called rehab and asked and surprise he lost his pass - which is what i figured.

i had planned to see him only on his sat pass but now that would have to be changed to visitation today. I really didnt want to go - I really should have trusted my gut. He said the reason he lost his pass was that another kid ran and a group of them just kept quiet about it - rules are that's enabling so they supposedly took two weeks of passes away from all the kids. who knows if that's true - i'll find out from counselor this week.

I know better - i know to just ignore him but comment after comment i was getting more and more irritated. So he told me about the loss of pass - of course not his fault. Then he told me about how when he got out he was going to get all tatted up - no offense to anyone with a tattoo but as a mom i just have a hard time thinking of my boy covered in tattoos - one or two okay but he's talking about having full arms, back, chest, and he knows it gets under my skin when he tells of his tat plans - i'm convinced that's why every time i see him he talks about it none stop. then he started in about how he as soon as he got home in the summer he was getting a job and moving in with one of his friends (yes of course a druggie friend). he'll only be 16 and his friend is 17. He's then going to miraciously become a rich musician (this is because he says he's not going to be poor like me - hello we're not poor - you're expensive). How he doesnt want to live to be as old as me (i'm 43 for goodness sake). And of course he had to tell me over and over that this is because he hates living at home so much.

AHHHHHHHH - i just wanted to shake him and scream snap out of it. there is no way he will be a rich musician when all he does is party. There is no way that he can support himself with the medical condition he has. I spend about 700 a month on a good month for insurance and meds - one trip to the hospital and its thousands & there is one trip every few months. He's 16, he's not going to have a hs diploma and he thinks he'll just get a job and move out and have the time of his life. I just cant talk to him anymore. I just cant hear this bs crap anymore coming out of his mouth. It was a two hour visitation and i just left after being there less than an hour. i couldnt listen anymore.

The reality I hear when he talks is that he isnt going to survive with this mentality. A type 1 diabetic cant live the lifestyle that he so craves. The selfish part of me knows that when he destroys his body or turns into a vegtable its going to be me who has care for him or put him in a home - its going to be me who has to bury him and it all makes me mad at him. How many parents have to sit around and think about what they will do when their son is in a coma or on dialysis. I just have this image of me taking care of my invalid son and i dont want this responsibility because its from his choices.

I'm thinking that i may just call his counselor and explain to her that i dont want to visit until we can have another family counseling session. I think its time for me to give my honesty talk to him.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:41 PM
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You're a good mother, Winnie. I think you are also a good woman who could really benefit from taking care of HER needs too. The counselor sounds like a great idea. Try to put it all down for while tonight now, and just breathe. Watch a movie, eat something indulgent. He's in a safe place, you're in a safe place, and you can turn it over to God for the night. Sweet dreams.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:45 PM
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Having listened to my share of bs from my 20 year old I know how fustrating it is. You just want to say why don't you grow up. I have found the one way to shut my son up is when he starts his bs with me I ask about the weather where he is. That seems to be my hint to him that I am not listening to him and his crap. He will either change the subject or get off the phone. He is in FLA and I am 13 hours away.
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Old 03-22-2009, 04:45 PM
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OOO Winnie,

I am sorry, man this kid is my son all over. For some reason he is trying to get under your skin, the counselor is a great idea. I don't understand why they do this to us I really don't, maybe she can give you a clue into it. It is almost like they are feeling irritated and want to make sure they pass the feeling on to us. My son is the same way with the tattoos and wants a nose ring, one in his eyebrow....right! I tell him not while you are living with me. Then he has the idea he is going to hit the big one in the lottery, I kind of like that over the I am just going to be a drug dealer and I will never need to work again. Sad thing there is he has a friend that is 20 and never worked a day in his life, yet walks around with all new clothes on, has his own apartment, so I know where that idea came from. I really think the not visiting again will shake him up and make him think, but talk to the counselor. Try not to let it get to you, he is still new in the recovery stage and a lot of emotions are still not right, he has a lot of growing to do and he is still very young. Maybe Jason can give you some input on this. I would have had some really good comebacks for you! LOL Hugs Winnie, I sure wish he would give you some peace of mind, I know how much you worry about him. Julie
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Old 03-22-2009, 05:19 PM
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Winnie, you are a good mother. Do you know how many times I heard the same stuff from my older daughter when she was 16? It's all talk.
Eventually she did get a nose ring though, by her father. 1 month later she was put in detention, and they took it out, the hole closed up, and no more nose ring.

I agree no more conversation til the counselor, and counselor only present. Visits to verbally batter you are not acceptable. You will not visit unless there is respect from him period.

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Old 03-22-2009, 05:22 PM
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Just peachy, Winnie.

What might be the outcome if you ceased to listen to this crap? I mean just gently hang up the phone. Forget that you want to wring his neck, paddle his butt and shake some sense into him and just stop listening.

No anger. No upset. No tears. No threats. No laughter. No nothing. If you stop listening, maybe he'll stop the nonsence. And if not, well at least you don't have to listen to it.
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Old 03-22-2009, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by outtolunch View Post
What might be the outcome if you ceased to listen to this crap?
How do you do that when they are right in front of you? i dont mean that sarcastically - i try to ignore him but every now and then after you hold it in so long you just blow. I realize at those times that I have a lot of anger in me from what's happened this last couple of years. i did leave early and he knew i was upset. i think he enjoys getting a rise out of me - it was almost like he was teasing me.

He's 16 so never visiting when he's only 10 miles away seems cruel unless he's really out of control with me. i'm also the only one who can pick him up when he gets passes. he needs those to help adjust and eventually he will be back here. I need to get him straight that he's not going to have my approval to move into a crack house the day he gets home from rehab.

I need some new boundaries. i'm pretty sure we dont need anymore visits until i can regroup and come up with boundaries and we have to have a family session. i'm not supposed to have another one of those for a week.
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:14 PM
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You know what Winnie, I think he was really upset about not being allowed to leave (2 hour pass) and this was his way of letting it out. I know he was taking it out on the wrong person, but I bet this is what he was upset about and he was just going to make sure you were just as upset. Boys have a hard time talking in the first place and when it comes to feeling, you know things that bother them, it is really hard for them to figure it out. I could be wrong, but it is some food for thought. One other thought I had was there was more to losing the pass then he is telling you and by getting you upset with his silly talk it takes the heat off whatever else he may have done to lose the pass.
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Old 03-22-2009, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by winnie12 View Post
I need some new boundaries. i'm pretty sure we dont need anymore visits until i can regroup and come up with boundaries and we have to have a family session. i'm not supposed to have another one of those for a week.
I think that sounds great.

When my youngest was in foster care early on, and still had a huge attitude, I went for my first visit, and we went to a park to sit. That's when I realized she had her tongue pierced (she was only 15), she grabbed a cigarette out of my pack before I could even react, and proceded to sit there and smoke it. Then I noticed she was wearing the class ring of the 24 year old she had run away with. Talk about a slap in the face!

I took her back to the foster home and left her there, seething all the way home.

I contacted St. Francis the next day (they facilitate placement of all foster kids in our state now).

The piercing was illegal and one of the other foster kids had done it without anyone's knowledge. That was taken care of promptly, and she got a reaming from the judge the next appearance she had in front of him, plus it was stipulated in court papers she was to have no piercings or tattoos or she would remain in the system till age 18.

St. Francis and I also discussed how to handle the cigarette situation, and the ring was taken away from her and given to St. Francis.

She wasn't happy, but as time went on, she was more respectful of our visits.

I would terminate the visit early if she started in, and it was a 125 mile drive one way. I went twice a month.

Set those boundaries. :ghug :ghug :ghug
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Old 03-22-2009, 08:52 PM
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It sounds ilke to me Winnie, that your son isn't ready to be sober. It sounds like he's looking at being in rehab as a chance to get some sober time, enough to pull things together enough to get the things he wants, (job, apartment, etc) but that he has no real intentions of stopping for the long haul.

The reason why i say this, is because it reminds me so much of my addict boyfriend. and thats all he has ever done. Get so messed up on drugs that his life falls apart around him, then he goes to rehab, gets some sober time, comes back home again and then starts back over, only to end up in the same situation 2 months later.

What I've realized over the past almost 4 years of dealing with this stuff, is that when they are still talking the way you're son is talking, that they aren't ready to change for good. I hope I'm wrong. But I think you're thinking the right way when you say you want to call his counselor and not go back and visit him until y'all can have a family session!

Hang in there!
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Old 03-22-2009, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by winnie12 View Post
(this is because he says he's not going to be poor like me - hello we're not poor - you're expensive).
OMG, if I only had a nickle everytime I heard that from my AD. I love your statement about not being poor that he is expensive lol!

Winnie, you are doing a great job with your AS
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Old 03-22-2009, 09:13 PM
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Winnie,

There were many times I told my daughter "Conversation over. This is going no where." And I left the room, house, yard, car, or wherever I was. I knew if I stayed, I would be drawn into the crap, and I wasn't willing to sacrifice my peace and serenity.

I've also had some pat statements that I would use. I kept them by the phone for phone calls that would get out of hand. After a while, I had them commited to memory and could use them when up close and personal. Statements such as:

That may work for you but it doesn't work for me.

Gee, sounds like you're having a bad day.

You could be right. I'll have to think about it and get back to you. (Click .. )

I'm always willing to do what I think is in your best interest.

I stopped many a conversation or argument with those statements. But I only learned to do it by attending meetings, keeping myself in recovery mode through Al Anon and this board. My sponsor kept telling me, "Get off the phone with her. All you're doing is allowing her to stay in her sick behavior when you listen to her go on and on and on." Boy, she had a point.

And I learned that it was okay NOT to visit. If I felt it was only going to be bad for me and her, I'd X the visit. It's perfectly okay to do that. We had spoiled our AD and I finally got enough myself and realized she needed to learn that I had a life to live and that the world did not revolve around her. HELLO???? It didn't??? You darn staight it didn't. Or like Freedom said, if we went to visit and it was going south, well....visit over. You do that a time or two and I bet you'll see a change (if only so small) in his attitude. Remember, recovery takes T.........I..........M.........E.

Hugs and prayers cause I know how hard it is to be in your position,

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Old 03-23-2009, 04:03 AM
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Oh, Winnie, I'm sorry to hear about his 16-year-old pie in the sky plans. Hopefully he will continue to learn and grow and understand what it means to be a real, grown, man while he is in rehab. I agree that he is at least in a safe place now!

Hugs and prayers, HG
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:19 AM
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You all have excellant points and i see a lot of truth in all of them.

meggy - your exactly right, he's not ready to be sober - I know this. he's looking at it is doing time and not as a chance to get his life back. he's only got a month in - maybe something will start sticking with him but who knows. He thinks he'll be out in 6 months but rehab says no one ever gets through the program in 6 months - it could be over a year before they think he's ready. I think i need to just go forward with the attitude that he's not getting it so that i'm prepared - if he does change then it will just be a plesant surprise. I also need to stop expecting him to change - just because i'm ready doesnt mean he is.

myjoey - i agree with you too. he probably was upset. it was all weird the way he acted. kids are very passive agressive

I also realize that i'm still jumping to his aid even though he's there. He calls and needs/wants something and i still jump. He sets his leave time but i never know when it is till the last moment so i free the whole weekend up for when he gets his time. He says that he cant get through on the phone but that's bogus - he's using his phone calls to call other people He has his plans but as a minor doesnt even think that he has to get my approval on his plans so he tells me what he's doing instead of asking me. I notice that when he does talk to me its about what he needs from me and never just a call to talk to me. He's still controlling me from there and i've got to stop this now.

Thanks for all the pointers. It does help knowing i'm not the only one dealing with this. One good thing is that i'm angry and sometimes i function better when i'm angry vs. when i'm emotional. Anger tells me something is wrong and i need to make changes in myself.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by winnie12 View Post
I also realize that i'm still jumping to his aid even though he's there. He calls and needs/wants something and i still jump. He sets his leave time but i never know when it is till the last moment so i free the whole weekend up for when he gets his time. He says that he cant get through on the phone but that's bogus - he's using his phone calls to call other people He has his plans but as a minor doesnt even think that he has to get my approval on his plans so he tells me what he's doing instead of asking me. I notice that when he does talk to me its about what he needs from me and never just a call to talk to me. He's still controlling me from there and i've got to stop this now.
Oh yeah, I remember those days. It's called "the tail wagging the dog." I know I did this type of behavior out of pure FEAR. Took me some time to get past that, but it can be done. Remember, you are not helping him nor yourself when you are operating in this manner. Recovery showed me that and I am so grateful. I had to learn to think with my head instead of my heart. And I realize that is so easy to type but so hard to do. But it can be done through working a recovery program for yourself. And learning about recovery and beginning to work a recovery program for yourself is the best thing you can do for you and for your son.

Hugs from this mama cause this is all too familiar, but there IS hope for both of you. Hang in there.

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Old 03-23-2009, 05:03 AM
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Winnie.... I have a 15 year old daughter who is not an addict and she can often have the same behavior. Lashing out at me to get a reaction. Thinking the world revolves around her. Talking nonsense about what she is going to do... not asking, mind you, telling. Saying things that "scare" me into thinking I need to respond.

I am not saying it's ok... it's not. I too struggle with saying, "enough, visit over, converstion over". I get alot of, "why can't you just be fun? Why do you have to **tch at me all the time?" Why do you have to mother me 24/7?"..... I am learning to say, "because I love you and I am your Mom 24/7". I am learning to say, " I am sorry you feel that way" Then end of discussion. I am learning to figure out what I want to do, make my plans, include her if I choose and when she rejects me..."gee, that's too bad. Maybe next time." No great emotional reaction seems to stop her in her tracks.

You a good Mom. They test every fiber of our being, those wonderful little blessings! : )
But, we love them with all our hearts. Hang in. He is fortunate to have a Mom like you who cares.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:26 AM
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It's called "the tail wagging the dog."
This is exactly what it is - now and then you read something and just know it to be true. Also, I noticed in our family therapy that he didnt do this - only when we're alone. He cant pull this BS with the therapists and i have to become more like them.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:28 AM
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(((((winnie)))) he disrespects you because he can. set those boundries you do not have to visit. read around at all the post. those of us who have finally got "it" know that when we learn to respect ourselves they learn to respect us. even at 16 they are going to do as they want to & it is really nothing we can do about it. we can put them in rehab,send them to jail but in the end they will do what they wish. this is the reality of it all. work your recovery & hard as it is pray foir him & turn him over to your higher power. you are a good mom with a son that just will not listen. i have gone thru this with my a.s & as hard & cold as it seems i will not go down the same road with my
grandson who has been doing this since the age of 12. my son is in at the beginning of a 7-9yr. prison sentence. my g.s. has been a ward of social services since he was 15, (now17) & has been in a locked youth developement program since that time.my prayers are for you & your son both.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:54 AM
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Winnie,

He is being disrespectful, and is hurting you. You HAVE to do whatever you need to... to disengage in the round and round with him.

Yesterday I was on the phone with my 17yr old. I had taken off to go to the library - (ended up in margahritaville...) (i'll explain in a minute.)

While instructing him on the phone...(and mind you, mine not an addict).... what he HAD to do, before having his 'girlfriend' come over, he was going round and round and ROUND with me, about what he does vs. what his 12yr old brother does.

He was complaining, about how bad his life is, this that and the other thing. The last thing he said was "why do I have to do more than....."

Finally I screamed... I'M YOUR D*** MOTHER, I'M SICK OF EXPLAINGING TO YOU, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, WHY OR HOW, I SAY THINGS TO DO..... I'M FLIPPING 40 YOUR 17---- NO MORE EXPLAINING..... IF THINGS AREN'T DONE WHEN I GET HOME THE XBOX GOES. PERIOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

i haven't screamed like that in forever. I had finally reached my boiling point. I am sick to death of talking/explaining/ etc. I'm sick to death of justifying, beggin,pleading, for him to just do what i dang well ask of him. Whos the parent here anyhow?

I've made up my mind, that there WILL be concequences..... and on top of it, I just REFUSE to engage in the round and round with him.

He is a difficult child---- much like an addict, where there is no talking to them. Therefore for my own sanity, there won't be any more 'conversations' with him.

I WILL walk away, drive away, or hang up the phone.

I decided yesterday, that my homework could wait till tonight. I took the afternoon OFF from everything and everyone.... and went to a mexican resturant. I hung out by MYSELF, drank margarhitas, ate and ate.... and REALLY enjoyed mysef.

Granted, tonight i'm going to be cramming to get my 'work' done.... but it was well worth the inconvience.

Try to walk away winnie. Don't feel bad, or guilty. Don't let the anger consume you.... just walk away. There is no winning... and you need some YOU time!!!

Love,
cessy
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:43 AM
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Dang..........Cessy! You should have called, why drink alone. LOL

Hey Winnie, Hope your feeling better today. It is always a yo-yo with our children even with the ones that aren't on drugs, they like to play the games and push the buttons. I am sure he will play the addiction buttons many times before he is off on his own....if you know what I mean. Heck my daughter still likes to push mine from time to time and she will be 28.
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