Sticky Job Situation vs Bad Economy...
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Sticky Job Situation vs Bad Economy...
Hi all! Trying to find a reason to smile...this place is a pretty good start. Thanks for chipping in and putting in your two cents' worth...it does add up...
Here's the scenario: my fiance has been struggling with cocaine abuse for about two years, and I was in one form of denial or another about it (believing promises, lies, etc, etc...). The good news is that we've enlisted the help of his family, and they've been supportive and loving about this since my fiance broke the news earlier today to them.
He works late nights two or three times per week in an industry that is notorious for cocaine abuse. He's also in management, so employees depend on him for direction and to provide an example...but some employees will also try to curry favor with him by offerring him a line or two during the night. His boss also does coke.
We're trying to outline a treatment program (in addition to outpatient treatment and psychotherapy), and I think that one of the important components is that he ask to be removed from the "closing" schedule (so that he will not be tempted to unwind or party after-hours).
His parents (who I respect and who are successful business owners and deeply compassionate employers themselves...though I can't say that either of them have had to deal with alcoholism or substance abuse in their families) feel that this should not necessarily be an option because then upper-level management would likely get involved, and the disclosure of his cocaine abuse might lead to the loss of his job, which could very well be the case (the office politics are of no significance; suffice it to say that everybody is at risk of losing their job these days...).
I know that each person's addiction is different...but can anyone provide some perspective on this?
They think that he needs to be presented with the opportunity to learn how to say "no"...and while I agree with this...
I also can't help but feel that this early in his treatment (he just told them about it today!) that temptation would be too much. He's succumbed on more than one occasion...It also doesn't bode well that his boss also does coke, and helps foster a "permissive" environment.
FYI, I think technically he's an abuser and not necessarily an addict. While I'm by no means qualified to make that distinction, both of my parents are recovering alcoholics/substance abusers, so I'm pretty familiar with all of this...arg. So I also feel unsure if my prior experiences/disappointments/etc etc are clouding my judgment. We also have a preschooler.
Gad. Sorry for the eyestrain...Thanks for taking a look and helping in any way that you can, even if it's to relate your own experiences. Lots of love and respect to you all! Namaste
Here's the scenario: my fiance has been struggling with cocaine abuse for about two years, and I was in one form of denial or another about it (believing promises, lies, etc, etc...). The good news is that we've enlisted the help of his family, and they've been supportive and loving about this since my fiance broke the news earlier today to them.
He works late nights two or three times per week in an industry that is notorious for cocaine abuse. He's also in management, so employees depend on him for direction and to provide an example...but some employees will also try to curry favor with him by offerring him a line or two during the night. His boss also does coke.
We're trying to outline a treatment program (in addition to outpatient treatment and psychotherapy), and I think that one of the important components is that he ask to be removed from the "closing" schedule (so that he will not be tempted to unwind or party after-hours).
His parents (who I respect and who are successful business owners and deeply compassionate employers themselves...though I can't say that either of them have had to deal with alcoholism or substance abuse in their families) feel that this should not necessarily be an option because then upper-level management would likely get involved, and the disclosure of his cocaine abuse might lead to the loss of his job, which could very well be the case (the office politics are of no significance; suffice it to say that everybody is at risk of losing their job these days...).
I know that each person's addiction is different...but can anyone provide some perspective on this?
They think that he needs to be presented with the opportunity to learn how to say "no"...and while I agree with this...
I also can't help but feel that this early in his treatment (he just told them about it today!) that temptation would be too much. He's succumbed on more than one occasion...It also doesn't bode well that his boss also does coke, and helps foster a "permissive" environment.
FYI, I think technically he's an abuser and not necessarily an addict. While I'm by no means qualified to make that distinction, both of my parents are recovering alcoholics/substance abusers, so I'm pretty familiar with all of this...arg. So I also feel unsure if my prior experiences/disappointments/etc etc are clouding my judgment. We also have a preschooler.
Gad. Sorry for the eyestrain...Thanks for taking a look and helping in any way that you can, even if it's to relate your own experiences. Lots of love and respect to you all! Namaste
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 83
A few things to think about...
I understand that it is a lousy job market right now and I don't know what your personal financial situation is, but that having been said if your boyfriend wants to get clean then I can say that his work environment is absolutely the last place that he should be... if the boss is doing coke, and the employees are doing coke, and he is being offered coke on a regular basis (or even a less than regular basis) and he has a problem with coke, then there is no way that he is going to stay clean in such a place. It does not matter if they can say 'no' a hundred times in a row, it's that one hundred and first time they say 'alright,' that is when you are in trouble...
It seems like YOU have taken a lot of steps to get him clean, let me ask you this - how willing is he to get clean, other than making an admission to you and his parents that he has a problem? No matter what lengths you go to, if he does not want it 100%, then you are wasting your time. And don't forget, the addict will make any number of excuses to put off the day of reckoning, when they have to quit using, even if it for just one more day. Admitting it to his parents may be a first step, but it is a very small step at that, and needs to be followed by some serious ACTION.
What are you doing for yourself? Have you considered al-anon, or any other kind of support group? Do you have a therapist or a counselor you can talk to? What boundaries will you put up now that the cat is out of the bag - what behavior from this point on will you be willing to tolerate?
Just a few things to think about. I sincerely hope you get through this situation as best as possible...
It seems like YOU have taken a lot of steps to get him clean, let me ask you this - how willing is he to get clean, other than making an admission to you and his parents that he has a problem? No matter what lengths you go to, if he does not want it 100%, then you are wasting your time. And don't forget, the addict will make any number of excuses to put off the day of reckoning, when they have to quit using, even if it for just one more day. Admitting it to his parents may be a first step, but it is a very small step at that, and needs to be followed by some serious ACTION.
What are you doing for yourself? Have you considered al-anon, or any other kind of support group? Do you have a therapist or a counselor you can talk to? What boundaries will you put up now that the cat is out of the bag - what behavior from this point on will you be willing to tolerate?
Just a few things to think about. I sincerely hope you get through this situation as best as possible...
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
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[QUOTE=Mishie31;2137693]
We're trying to outline a treatment program (in addition to outpatient treatment and psychotherapy), and I think that one of the important components is that he ask to be removed from the "closing" schedule (so that he will not be tempted to unwind or party after-hours). /QUOTE]
What's going to matter is what's he's going to do. You and his family are doing for him what he needs to do for himself, assuming he want recovery more than anything.
Just curious, what industry is notorious for cocain abuse?
We're trying to outline a treatment program (in addition to outpatient treatment and psychotherapy), and I think that one of the important components is that he ask to be removed from the "closing" schedule (so that he will not be tempted to unwind or party after-hours). /QUOTE]
What's going to matter is what's he's going to do. You and his family are doing for him what he needs to do for himself, assuming he want recovery more than anything.
Just curious, what industry is notorious for cocain abuse?
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by cynical one 
Neither you or his parents are professionals, he goes to outpatient and psychotherpy, why not allow your fiance and the professionals outline his recovery? HIS recovery is not a family project.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
[QUOTE=outtolunch;2138068]
Just curious, what industry is notorious for cocain abuse? The auto manufacturing industry is terrible with drugs. Rehabs in our state have verified this. My AH did crap with his bosses/coworkers etc in the bathroom or on breaks. They all did it, but when AH got called out they all tucked tail and ran. Work is where my AH initially got his drugs. It's still HIS choice, but it is a bad environment to be in if you're an addict.
Originally Posted by Mishie31
Just curious, what industry is notorious for cocain abuse?
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Just curious, what industry is notorious for cocain abuse?
I worked in healthcare and I did cocaine in the bathroom before meetings. I used to smoke crack with a fireman whose crack head girlfriend was a lawyer. I used to get my car fixed by a mechanic who sold dope on the side. Drugs are everywhere. It would be foolish to put the focus on the environment where someone is buying & using their dope, instead of on addiction and the addict.
An addict who wants recovery will do it wherever they are. They will do whatever it takes to stop using their drug of choice.
Callie. I'm wondering if you come from a state with a large auto industry. I'll bet you that if you came from say... Hawaii... the percentage of addicts from the auto industry would be significantly lower, since there is no auto industry. But I bet that there would still be a similar percentage of addicts.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
Just my experience - EVERYWHERE is a bad environment for an active drug user.
DRUGS are everywhere.
we could probably start a seperate thread on the places that our A's work and that they have "used" on the job or gotten the drugs on the job.
My ex A is an electrician - said he couldn't work at the refineries any more because there were too many drugs out there. Five years later he is NOT working at the refineries and still not sober - guess he found somewhere else to get those drugs.
It doesn't matter where they work - they will find the drugs anywhere if they want them bad enough.
and I truly believe on the same hand - if they want sobriety bad enough - they will maintain sobriety in any situation - if they want it bad enough and are willing to use the tools available to them.
Just my e, s, & h.
DRUGS are everywhere.
we could probably start a seperate thread on the places that our A's work and that they have "used" on the job or gotten the drugs on the job.
My ex A is an electrician - said he couldn't work at the refineries any more because there were too many drugs out there. Five years later he is NOT working at the refineries and still not sober - guess he found somewhere else to get those drugs.
It doesn't matter where they work - they will find the drugs anywhere if they want them bad enough.
and I truly believe on the same hand - if they want sobriety bad enough - they will maintain sobriety in any situation - if they want it bad enough and are willing to use the tools available to them.
Just my e, s, & h.
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Originally Posted by hello-kitty
An addict who wants recovery will do it wherever they are. They will do whatever it takes to stop using their drug of choice.
There are also 12 step meetings in the immediate areas of several of them for people in recovery.
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Join Date: May 2008
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OK, OK, OK guys - point well taken! 
You are right, they're everywhere. Yes, I come from a large auto manufacturer state. AH's job is what introduced drugs to him. Yes, he could have/should have denied it. In the beginning he got it from there, in the end (10 years later) he was going straight to a major source in our state 1 hour away (who were getting it from the borders) to cut out the middle man. While @ his mom's he could walk to get it or they even had free delivery. Kinda like Pizza Hut or Domino's.
You are right, they're everywhere. Yes, I come from a large auto manufacturer state. AH's job is what introduced drugs to him. Yes, he could have/should have denied it. In the beginning he got it from there, in the end (10 years later) he was going straight to a major source in our state 1 hour away (who were getting it from the borders) to cut out the middle man. While @ his mom's he could walk to get it or they even had free delivery. Kinda like Pizza Hut or Domino's. Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,453
While in drug court group one evening, the counselor asked "where are some places you can avoid while trying not to use?" I said "high school." The counselors didnt find it funny at all but all the parents and kids in the group did because high schools in my area are just huge drug stores. Any teenager going to my son's school will admit that within five minutes of walking in school they can score just about any drug they want. So while waiting to get into rehab the court agreed that the last place my son needed to be was in school. That just goes against everything that society tells us and many friends and family just couldnt believe we were pulling him out of school but the thinking was that his sobriety was more urgent right now then his education. No amount of education was going to do him any good if he ended up dead. I just see it as a matter of priority - if your husband feels it will be easier for him not to take those shifts then by all means he should do what he feels is best but i would leave that decision completely up to him without his parents input or yours - it needs to be his choice. I've known alchoholic bartenders who were able to keep their jobs and stay clean and then other people who had to change their line of work just because the stress level was too high - it just depends on the person and their level of dedication to their sobriety.
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hey - just wanted to chime in.......
Although , yes, drugs are everywhere- I am in the automotive industry. I am one of THE FEW.... (out of literally hundreds ) that I work with that do NOT do drugs. Usually the doc in this industry is coke, now that pills are the 'thing' the pills are seen frequently as well.
p.s.... my abf is a car guy as well.
Believe me, it's the percentages--- if 80 out of 100 people in my industry use- that's indicitive of something.
Cessy
Although , yes, drugs are everywhere- I am in the automotive industry. I am one of THE FEW.... (out of literally hundreds ) that I work with that do NOT do drugs. Usually the doc in this industry is coke, now that pills are the 'thing' the pills are seen frequently as well.
p.s.... my abf is a car guy as well.
Believe me, it's the percentages--- if 80 out of 100 people in my industry use- that's indicitive of something.
Cessy
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Yes I agree. Drugs are everywhere.
I'm not much of a coke person, but I am an alcoholic. I am an alcoholic who is in a bar or someplace that serves alcohol (pretty much) every night of the week. I am an entertainer and I get offered 'free' drinks all the time.
You almost can't get away from it. So the only thing I have to ask is "Is HE serious about his recovery or are you just insisting on it?"
Because if he's not serious, he will do drugs. Period. It doesn't matter where he works. Addicts are like magnets. We attract to each other.
I'm not much of a coke person, but I am an alcoholic. I am an alcoholic who is in a bar or someplace that serves alcohol (pretty much) every night of the week. I am an entertainer and I get offered 'free' drinks all the time.
You almost can't get away from it. So the only thing I have to ask is "Is HE serious about his recovery or are you just insisting on it?"
Because if he's not serious, he will do drugs. Period. It doesn't matter where he works. Addicts are like magnets. We attract to each other.
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Location: Atlanta
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I'm a recovering crack addict, and have coworkers who used to sell it..would be more than willing to hook me up, if I asked, but I don't ask. I used to abuse pain pills...stepmom has a boatload of lortabs in her purse, 15 feet away from me, right now.
Now, if I were to walk in a room with someone smoking crack, I would run like he!! I THINK I would be able to resist, but I don't want to put myself in that position.
Recovery is an individual thing, and best handled by the person who is recovering and any professionals who are working with them. Family members can love them and want what's best for them, but unless they are addicts themselves, they really cannot possibly understand what goes on in the mind of an addict.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Now, if I were to walk in a room with someone smoking crack, I would run like he!! I THINK I would be able to resist, but I don't want to put myself in that position.
Recovery is an individual thing, and best handled by the person who is recovering and any professionals who are working with them. Family members can love them and want what's best for them, but unless they are addicts themselves, they really cannot possibly understand what goes on in the mind of an addict.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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I think its everywhere. Here the dealers deliver with one phone call, even trade it for formula, diapers and steaks.
Ive seen constructions and laborers and people on breaks outside factories and telemarketing companies with there pipes (whether coke or weed). Ive been to parties with lawyers detectives and judges using and I handle investiagtions for the City wherein the garbage truck drivers and city electricians wreck on the job high on coke.
Ive seen constructions and laborers and people on breaks outside factories and telemarketing companies with there pipes (whether coke or weed). Ive been to parties with lawyers detectives and judges using and I handle investiagtions for the City wherein the garbage truck drivers and city electricians wreck on the job high on coke.
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Gad I love y'all...
It is the restaurant business, and it's high end stuff...so sometimes even a guest (a perfect stranger, mind you) will pull him aside and ask if he can score something for them.
When I said that "we're trying to outline a treatment program," I mean that his family and I are collaborating to work on how to be a support network for him and for each other. This isn't going to be an enabling party by any means...I've been though this with my parents, too. Should he choose to return to using cocaine, I want to be able to say "Yep, I gave it my all." I know that we all want to say that to ourselves, time and again...this is his one fair, out in the open, honest-to-goodness shot. No more hiding him from his family, no more trying to do it on my own.
He has said that he is 100% committed to a recovery program. I will be looking to the professionals to outline the treatment...but I've been mulling over a couple of ideas. Let me know if you've seen success or failure with this?
1. Separate bank account into which his check gets directly deposited...which I then transfer to an account for which I am the only authorized signer. Is that possible?
2. Weekly random drug tests. Any success with the ones done at home?
3. No closing shifts (as previously discussed).
4. Volunteering x number of hours per week (say 10-15?) at a half-way house or a shelter (the reason I'm thinking about suggesting this is because he comes from a wealthy background, and has no impluse control, and operates as if consequences aren't a part of real life. He's never seen anyone hit rock bottom, and I don't think he's even had face time with a self-admitted addict ever. Does it make sense that, if he works to help the people who've wrecked their lives with drug and alcohol, that his compassion might get engaged, and then that emotional connection might strengthen his resolve to stay clean?...Or am I being a naive boob?)
This would be on top of whatever treatment is prescribed to him by his G.P., psychotherepist, counselor/sponsor.
We're sitting down with the family tomorrow to talk about all of this...and about whether or not I can ethically/morally continue with the wedding plans, given that he's an addict. Recovery, shmecovery...it's cocaine (highly addictive, high rate of relapse), I have a beautiful child from a previous marriage who lives with us, and I have to be diligent about the life that I structure for her. Also, does anyone know what could or would happen if her biological father found out about this and decided to challenge the custodial agreement outlined in the divorce decree?
Blarg. Might need to start a new thread for that...
Hugs and loves to you all! Thank you for sharing
I love y'all...It is the restaurant business, and it's high end stuff...so sometimes even a guest (a perfect stranger, mind you) will pull him aside and ask if he can score something for them.
When I said that "we're trying to outline a treatment program," I mean that his family and I are collaborating to work on how to be a support network for him and for each other. This isn't going to be an enabling party by any means...I've been though this with my parents, too. Should he choose to return to using cocaine, I want to be able to say "Yep, I gave it my all." I know that we all want to say that to ourselves, time and again...this is his one fair, out in the open, honest-to-goodness shot. No more hiding him from his family, no more trying to do it on my own.
He has said that he is 100% committed to a recovery program. I will be looking to the professionals to outline the treatment...but I've been mulling over a couple of ideas. Let me know if you've seen success or failure with this?
1. Separate bank account into which his check gets directly deposited...which I then transfer to an account for which I am the only authorized signer. Is that possible?
2. Weekly random drug tests. Any success with the ones done at home?
3. No closing shifts (as previously discussed).
4. Volunteering x number of hours per week (say 10-15?) at a half-way house or a shelter (the reason I'm thinking about suggesting this is because he comes from a wealthy background, and has no impluse control, and operates as if consequences aren't a part of real life. He's never seen anyone hit rock bottom, and I don't think he's even had face time with a self-admitted addict ever. Does it make sense that, if he works to help the people who've wrecked their lives with drug and alcohol, that his compassion might get engaged, and then that emotional connection might strengthen his resolve to stay clean?...Or am I being a naive boob?)
This would be on top of whatever treatment is prescribed to him by his G.P., psychotherepist, counselor/sponsor.
We're sitting down with the family tomorrow to talk about all of this...and about whether or not I can ethically/morally continue with the wedding plans, given that he's an addict. Recovery, shmecovery...it's cocaine (highly addictive, high rate of relapse), I have a beautiful child from a previous marriage who lives with us, and I have to be diligent about the life that I structure for her. Also, does anyone know what could or would happen if her biological father found out about this and decided to challenge the custodial agreement outlined in the divorce decree?
Blarg. Might need to start a new thread for that...
Hugs and loves to you all! Thank you for sharing
Last edited by Mishie31; 03-06-2009 at 04:10 PM. Reason: clarification
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My ABF works from home. He rarely goes into an office for a meeting. He mostly deals with people on the phone. For him, he was easily able to isolate himself at home and do the drugs while working. I don't discount that some professions have more availability of drugs than others. However, if someone wants to do drugs, they will certainly find a way.
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Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Hi Mishie. I really appreciate your post and it sounds like you have some good ideas there. The only thing I would suggest is to frame everything in terms of your personal boundaries. Determine what your values are and then write up a list of your boundaries and the consequences if someone - anyone - violates them. Don't impose a boundary on him that you aren't willing to follow through on, or that you aren't willing to impose on yourself.
An addict needs to have ownership over his own recovery. It's not ours to control or prescribe. It's between him and the professionals. Focus instead on yourself and your own behaviors, and what kind of behavior you are going to allow in the life of your child. Easier than it sounds... believe me.
Thanks again and welcome to the site. ;-)
An addict needs to have ownership over his own recovery. It's not ours to control or prescribe. It's between him and the professionals. Focus instead on yourself and your own behaviors, and what kind of behavior you are going to allow in the life of your child. Easier than it sounds... believe me.
Thanks again and welcome to the site. ;-)
"Taking the risk to blossom"
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: a little piece of heaven! Ontario Canada
Posts: 245
Hi Mishie -- I'm glad you (and I) found SR. I'm fairly new at my recovery and this site but have recently moved from the denial stage to the acceptance stage (and dare I say, action). My husband (relationship for 27 years, married 20 -- we've been together since 16) was given the choice to get help or leave. He left two weeks ago, still denying that he had a problem.
I threw myself into his recovery to the point that I lost myself. I suggested many many things, including many of the things that you are thinking. At one time, about 5 years ago, he was where your fiance is -- admitting he had a problem and wanted help. He went to rehab, talked about doing talks at schools/rehabs etc., even wanted to become an addiction counsellor. It was fairly short lived. And his disease has progressed -- rapidly in the past six months especially.
I set up the financial matters so he had no control -- didn't stop him from getting his own line of credit and running it up twice to the tune of $40,000 in just over a year (in November, he disappeared for five days and managed to spend $7000). It didn't stop him from getting credit cards and going through that. All without me knowing. Lord knows what he has "on credit" with his dealers. He spent enough in the past 10 years to send both my kids through University. My tolerance level kept going up and up. I kept forgiving and believing his "quacking" and never did what I threatened to do. Totally enabling him and making him sicker.
And boy, was I as sick. By the time he left, I was sleeping with my purse and my car keys. I kept every important paper with me, whether at work or in my vehicle. I was terrified to have any kind of money in the bank or any kind of savings. I was scared any time he wasn't with me, therefore, I scheduled my life around him and he was never out of my site. That's what years of being with him did to me. In saying all that, I truly believe, at one time, he wanted help. I truly believe he has no control over his addictions. But he has made the choice not to get treatment. Therefore, it will progress.
Don't waste your prescious life and that of your daughters on his recovery. It has to be his. I always thought what I was doing was supporting him. I knew I needed boundaries but I never enforced them. Focus on you and your daughter and your boundaries. This is what will truly support him, while doing you a world of good. IMHO I wouldn't be rushing to the alter. I would be slowing myself down, waiting to see if his actions are equal to his words.
I don't mean this to be harsh in anyway -- just something to think about -- If your child's biological father had custody, and you found out his fiance was a user, what would you do?
Take care of you
Laurie
I threw myself into his recovery to the point that I lost myself. I suggested many many things, including many of the things that you are thinking. At one time, about 5 years ago, he was where your fiance is -- admitting he had a problem and wanted help. He went to rehab, talked about doing talks at schools/rehabs etc., even wanted to become an addiction counsellor. It was fairly short lived. And his disease has progressed -- rapidly in the past six months especially.
I set up the financial matters so he had no control -- didn't stop him from getting his own line of credit and running it up twice to the tune of $40,000 in just over a year (in November, he disappeared for five days and managed to spend $7000). It didn't stop him from getting credit cards and going through that. All without me knowing. Lord knows what he has "on credit" with his dealers. He spent enough in the past 10 years to send both my kids through University. My tolerance level kept going up and up. I kept forgiving and believing his "quacking" and never did what I threatened to do. Totally enabling him and making him sicker.
And boy, was I as sick. By the time he left, I was sleeping with my purse and my car keys. I kept every important paper with me, whether at work or in my vehicle. I was terrified to have any kind of money in the bank or any kind of savings. I was scared any time he wasn't with me, therefore, I scheduled my life around him and he was never out of my site. That's what years of being with him did to me. In saying all that, I truly believe, at one time, he wanted help. I truly believe he has no control over his addictions. But he has made the choice not to get treatment. Therefore, it will progress.
Don't waste your prescious life and that of your daughters on his recovery. It has to be his. I always thought what I was doing was supporting him. I knew I needed boundaries but I never enforced them. Focus on you and your daughter and your boundaries. This is what will truly support him, while doing you a world of good. IMHO I wouldn't be rushing to the alter. I would be slowing myself down, waiting to see if his actions are equal to his words.
I don't mean this to be harsh in anyway -- just something to think about -- If your child's biological father had custody, and you found out his fiance was a user, what would you do?
Take care of you
Laurie
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