There seems to be some problems in understanding here...
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Originally Posted by liesagain 
Winnie gave a perfect example of the difference between being a loving wife, sister, mother etc
there is a fine line between enabling and caring.............as ones own recovery progresses that difference becomes a bit more clear
we each have to walk our own path there is no one way to live with or love an active addict....................
when in doubt about something I try to ask myself........am I hoping for a certain outcome from my actions? Am I trying to influence him or MAKE him "see" something?
Am I doing whatever it is in hopes of "pushing" him towards recovery?
If I ask and answer those questions for myself HONESTLY I can generally see for myself if what I'm doing or thinking of doing is caring, controlling or enabling
there is a fine line between enabling and caring.............as ones own recovery progresses that difference becomes a bit more clear
we each have to walk our own path there is no one way to live with or love an active addict....................
when in doubt about something I try to ask myself........am I hoping for a certain outcome from my actions? Am I trying to influence him or MAKE him "see" something?
Am I doing whatever it is in hopes of "pushing" him towards recovery?
If I ask and answer those questions for myself HONESTLY I can generally see for myself if what I'm doing or thinking of doing is caring, controlling or enabling
Thank you! I agree wholeheartedly. And I believe that I can HONESTLY say that I am NOT hoping for a certain outcome from my action, am I not trying to influence him or MAKE him "see" something, I am not doing this in hopes of "pushing" him towards recovery. I hope he does go into recovery but I know that my actions aren't going to make it any quicker.
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Originally Posted by cynical one
Funny in an odd way, not in a haha way, I've seen this same thing in a couple different threads in the past couple of days. Makes me wonder though, it seems those who are healthy have the courage to post their thoughts in a public forum. Just like addiction, codependency festers and grows when it is kept in the dark. Healthy people attract healthy people...and the opposite is also true.
They're afraid to post because people treat them as though they're dumb, stupid, or weak for being in this position.
Originally Posted by cynical one
Addiction is often used as an excuse for bad behavior, and sadly if you take the addiction away...that's still their character
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I want to say something...
I have felt the same way as you, YN, that sometimes when I posted I was being attacked. Like all these people on here thought they were so much better and more experienced than me and that they were misunderstanding everything I said.
But I have to make myself realize two things:
1) these are words on a computer, it's very difficult to understand the exact implications of what I say or what they say, and;
2) all of these people falter regularly. Immediately after they post on your thread about how you didn't handle that situation correctly. They post about how badly they are handling their OWN situation. No one is suggesting they are perfect, and the majority of the time they have struggled with the EXACT same thing and you.
That's the amazing thing about this disease (addiction and codependency). It's set of symptoms are remarkabely similar regardless of who you are or where you go.
Sometimes it's easier to give advice when you're on the outside looking in, and, I think, most of the time, people are only saying what they WISH someone had said to them yesterday. I truly don't think these people are trying to attack you, they're just offering support the only way they know how. It may not always be the best way, but then, when we're dealing with our addicts, I think we tend to get very defensive about our actions, I know I do.
I have felt the same way as you, YN, that sometimes when I posted I was being attacked. Like all these people on here thought they were so much better and more experienced than me and that they were misunderstanding everything I said.
But I have to make myself realize two things:
1) these are words on a computer, it's very difficult to understand the exact implications of what I say or what they say, and;
2) all of these people falter regularly. Immediately after they post on your thread about how you didn't handle that situation correctly. They post about how badly they are handling their OWN situation. No one is suggesting they are perfect, and the majority of the time they have struggled with the EXACT same thing and you.
That's the amazing thing about this disease (addiction and codependency). It's set of symptoms are remarkabely similar regardless of who you are or where you go.
Sometimes it's easier to give advice when you're on the outside looking in, and, I think, most of the time, people are only saying what they WISH someone had said to them yesterday. I truly don't think these people are trying to attack you, they're just offering support the only way they know how. It may not always be the best way, but then, when we're dealing with our addicts, I think we tend to get very defensive about our actions, I know I do.
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Yesterday
I dont believe that it is the intention to make people feel weak stupid or dumb
however at times it takes someone pointing out to us.......where we are making mistakes....mistakes that many here have made over and over themselves.
I believe that those who are harsh are often truely trying to help others avoid the same mistakes and hurt.
ALSO............I'm gonna go out on a limb here.......but I am willing to promise you that in time as you and the others that are so offended...........move forward and experience more and more with the addict and if you continue to work on yourselves your issues and your behaviors you will ( or may) one day look back at this time and the advice you've been given and you may just say WOW I was sooooo blind I was sooo confused and "they" really were right about alot of things...........
maybe I'm wrong
But thats exactly what happened for me...........I came here looking for help and in the beginning was so annoyed with the things I was told.....found reasons to be offended ...............now years later I know beyond a doubt that in the beginning I was blind and my LOVE for my addict and my need to help him to do for him.......................got in the way of recovery for both of us
I dont believe that it is the intention to make people feel weak stupid or dumb
however at times it takes someone pointing out to us.......where we are making mistakes....mistakes that many here have made over and over themselves.
I believe that those who are harsh are often truely trying to help others avoid the same mistakes and hurt.
ALSO............I'm gonna go out on a limb here.......but I am willing to promise you that in time as you and the others that are so offended...........move forward and experience more and more with the addict and if you continue to work on yourselves your issues and your behaviors you will ( or may) one day look back at this time and the advice you've been given and you may just say WOW I was sooooo blind I was sooo confused and "they" really were right about alot of things...........
maybe I'm wrong
But thats exactly what happened for me...........I came here looking for help and in the beginning was so annoyed with the things I was told.....found reasons to be offended ...............now years later I know beyond a doubt that in the beginning I was blind and my LOVE for my addict and my need to help him to do for him.......................got in the way of recovery for both of us
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Originally Posted by k1a2t3h4r5y6n7
I want to say something...
I have felt the same way as you, YN, that sometimes when I posted I was being attacked. Like all these people on here thought they were so much better and more experienced than me and that they were misunderstanding everything I said.
But I have to make myself realize two things:
1) these are words on a computer, it's very difficult to understand the exact implications of what I say or what they say, and;
2) all of these people falter regularly. Immediately after they post on your thread about how you didn't handle that situation correctly. They post about how badly they are handling their OWN situation. No one is suggesting they are perfect, and the majority of the time they have struggled with the EXACT same thing and you.
That's the amazing thing about this disease (addiction and codependency). It's set of symptoms are remarkabely similar regardless of who you are or where you go.
Sometimes it's easier to give advice when you're on the outside looking in, and, I think, most of the time, people are only saying what they WISH someone had said to them yesterday. I truly don't think these people are trying to attack you, they're just offering support the only way they know how. It may not always be the best way, but then, when we're dealing with our addicts, I think we tend to get very defensive about our actions, I know I do.
I have felt the same way as you, YN, that sometimes when I posted I was being attacked. Like all these people on here thought they were so much better and more experienced than me and that they were misunderstanding everything I said.
But I have to make myself realize two things:
1) these are words on a computer, it's very difficult to understand the exact implications of what I say or what they say, and;
2) all of these people falter regularly. Immediately after they post on your thread about how you didn't handle that situation correctly. They post about how badly they are handling their OWN situation. No one is suggesting they are perfect, and the majority of the time they have struggled with the EXACT same thing and you.
That's the amazing thing about this disease (addiction and codependency). It's set of symptoms are remarkabely similar regardless of who you are or where you go.
Sometimes it's easier to give advice when you're on the outside looking in, and, I think, most of the time, people are only saying what they WISH someone had said to them yesterday. I truly don't think these people are trying to attack you, they're just offering support the only way they know how. It may not always be the best way, but then, when we're dealing with our addicts, I think we tend to get very defensive about our actions, I know I do.
But I certaintly can take it a lot better than others. I also think that sometimes the people making the comments can use better judgment with the words, fonts, capitals they use. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO SOMEONE LIKE THIS rather than like this, it's going to come across louder and harsher than you may have intended. We need to be mindful of that. And anytime you type something like "this may sound blunt/harsh but...." maybe you shouldn't type it. (not speaking directly to you, just talking about in general) I'm not trying to control the way people do things, I'm just making a suggestion that might allow people to accept the help we're trying to give them.And you are so right about #2! I was surprised at the same people telling me about myself. I looked at their post and they are not so great themselves.
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Originally Posted by Yesterdaysnumb
And I'm truly trying and trying to understand.
There are people on the board that are screaming down the throats of families/friends of addicts (not literally) not to do anything for them because they're addicts. If a person were to so much as post that they made breakfast for they're addict husband, there are people on this board that would become angry and quote "Don't do anything for them that they can do for themselves!!"
And I can certaintly understand to a certain extent. We shouldn't be enabling and helping their ADDICTION by doing things that would drive them to use more drugs or alcohol. Such as; providing them with money, taking care of them financially, providing them with transportation etc. Basically things that would make it easier for them to use drugs/alcohol.
[B]
There's a thin line between helping and enabling.
And lastly, I'll leave you with a quote from an addict on this board. He said this to me this week and it stuck with me...
"If it weren't for my girlfriend's undying love and understanding - time and time and time again. I may have never had a reason to stop. Her loyalty to me was so inspiring to me that I wanted to quit."-- VeritasAequitas
This world is not black and white... there are some gray areas.
There are people on the board that are screaming down the throats of families/friends of addicts (not literally) not to do anything for them because they're addicts. If a person were to so much as post that they made breakfast for they're addict husband, there are people on this board that would become angry and quote "Don't do anything for them that they can do for themselves!!"
And I can certaintly understand to a certain extent. We shouldn't be enabling and helping their ADDICTION by doing things that would drive them to use more drugs or alcohol. Such as; providing them with money, taking care of them financially, providing them with transportation etc. Basically things that would make it easier for them to use drugs/alcohol.
[B]
There's a thin line between helping and enabling.
And lastly, I'll leave you with a quote from an addict on this board. He said this to me this week and it stuck with me...
"If it weren't for my girlfriend's undying love and understanding - time and time and time again. I may have never had a reason to stop. Her loyalty to me was so inspiring to me that I wanted to quit."-- VeritasAequitas
This world is not black and white... there are some gray areas.
That last C. Didn't cause it, cant control it, can't cure it, so don't contribute to it.
While someone else's experience might suggest to them that having someone in their life for support made them want to quit, everything I've ever read on the subject-and my own personal experiences as an alcoholic AND codependent-suggest the exact opposite, people don't stop doing what they're doing until the pain far outweighs any pleasure they might derive from the behavior.
And we could probably cite many here that have had that same experience, myself included. I know the message can come off as harsh at times, but I think it's a little like what we feel when we're dealing with the addicts in our lives, we just want to shake them out of it. I feel that some of the posters here-myself included-feel the same way when they're posting to a codependent, you just want to shake them out of it.
I found this last bit helpful, not sure who pointed it out initially so I can't thank them. It is posted in a forum here, somewhere.
"It is so much easier to accept life as it is and make the best of it - there is a catch however. When we accept reality, and let go of trying to force our will on life and other people, there are feelings to deal with. One of the reasons we keep trying to control someone else (to get an alcoholic to stop drinking for instance) is because with all that frustration and anger, mental obsession and rumination, we don't have time to stop and feel how much it hurts, or how scared we are, or feel the grief of letting that other person go. The reason we try to control other people is to protect ourselves from our feelings - and it is important to admit that. Of course we want what is "right" for them, what is good for them - but we don't know what their "right" path is. Some people are supposed to die of Alcoholism - that is their path."
--Robert Burney
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Originally Posted by liesagain
Yesterday
I dont believe that it is the intention to make people feel weak stupid or dumb
however at times it takes someone pointing out to us.......where we are making mistakes....mistakes that many here have made over and over themselves.
I believe that those who are harsh are often truely trying to help others avoid the same mistakes and hurt.
ALSO............I'm gonna go out on a limb here.......but I am willing to promise you that in time as you and the others that are so offended...........move forward and experience more and more with the addict and if you continue to work on yourselves your issues and your behaviors you will ( or may) one day look back at this time and the advice you've been given and you may just say WOW I was sooooo blind I was sooo confused and "they" really were right about alot of things...........
maybe I'm wrong
But thats exactly what happened for me...........I came here looking for help and in the beginning was so annoyed with the things I was told.....found reasons to be offended ...............now years later I know beyond a doubt that in the beginning I was blind and my LOVE for my addict and my need to help him to do for him.......................got in the way of recovery for both of us
I dont believe that it is the intention to make people feel weak stupid or dumb
however at times it takes someone pointing out to us.......where we are making mistakes....mistakes that many here have made over and over themselves.
I believe that those who are harsh are often truely trying to help others avoid the same mistakes and hurt.
ALSO............I'm gonna go out on a limb here.......but I am willing to promise you that in time as you and the others that are so offended...........move forward and experience more and more with the addict and if you continue to work on yourselves your issues and your behaviors you will ( or may) one day look back at this time and the advice you've been given and you may just say WOW I was sooooo blind I was sooo confused and "they" really were right about alot of things...........
maybe I'm wrong
But thats exactly what happened for me...........I came here looking for help and in the beginning was so annoyed with the things I was told.....found reasons to be offended ...............now years later I know beyond a doubt that in the beginning I was blind and my LOVE for my addict and my need to help him to do for him.......................got in the way of recovery for both of us
And I'm not saying that people are wrong. It's just the delivery that's wrong. Wait, let me take that back. Some people are wrong. They seem so bitter from what their addicts have done to them in their life that they can't stand for someone to show love to another addict.
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I want to add that I was married for 11 years to a man who had an internet and porn addiction. (i hate even writing that because it turns my stomach to this day but its the truth). Through it all I was determined to be a good wife and took my marriage vows very seroiusly- to stand by him and try to help him. No one who knew what was going on understood - even my own parents (who are strictly against divorce) thought i should leave him. I took care of the house and the kids, I supported us during all the many times that he was unemployed - i did everything that i thought a good wife was supposed to do - all the time i was holding onto a dream that if I were a good enough wife that he would come around in the end and be the man that i know he could be. I became the rock of the family and the one that everyone depended on. In the end all my efforts didnt save our marriage because he couldnt love me and carry on his addiction at the same time. I interfered with his addiction by my mere presence in his life. I put my foot down with him eventually and three days later he went to work and never came home.
In hindsight i see that all those years that i took care of everything I was just delaying him hitting bottom. He's 41 years old and cannot take care of himself. He lost his job, has no car, and has been sleeping on his brothers couch for year. I really think i was his mother more than i was his wife. I was the caretaker of a man who had the emotional strength of a child. I did it all in the name of Love but now I realize that I was the only one who was really in the marriage.
I took my marriage vows seriously and i dont regret that. I just know that the next time i have a relationship it has to be with someone who doesnt rely on me for their existence.
In hindsight i see that all those years that i took care of everything I was just delaying him hitting bottom. He's 41 years old and cannot take care of himself. He lost his job, has no car, and has been sleeping on his brothers couch for year. I really think i was his mother more than i was his wife. I was the caretaker of a man who had the emotional strength of a child. I did it all in the name of Love but now I realize that I was the only one who was really in the marriage.
I took my marriage vows seriously and i dont regret that. I just know that the next time i have a relationship it has to be with someone who doesnt rely on me for their existence.
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Location: limbo
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additionally at times I have been dumb, stupid and weak!!!!
At times there was no telling me anything............I knew my addict was Different and I was different
I did it all I made appointments, I found treatment centers I bought books and tapes and drove to meetings
I picked up peices and kept everything going after each and every relapse
all the while telling myself it was out of love or for mychildren my family
time and failures have taught me I did those things FOR ME because thats all I could do, that was how I coped how I dealt with a life that was out of control
Theres a book called Getting them sober............by Toby Rice
try reading it
maybe you will se that we are more alike than we think
Hang in there this isnt an easy life there are many ups and many downs
At times there was no telling me anything............I knew my addict was Different and I was different
I did it all I made appointments, I found treatment centers I bought books and tapes and drove to meetings
I picked up peices and kept everything going after each and every relapse
all the while telling myself it was out of love or for mychildren my family
time and failures have taught me I did those things FOR ME because thats all I could do, that was how I coped how I dealt with a life that was out of control
Theres a book called Getting them sober............by Toby Rice
try reading it
maybe you will se that we are more alike than we think
Hang in there this isnt an easy life there are many ups and many downs
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 932
because going to the meeting is making things too easy for him.
"Honey, I just wish you would back off! You don't need to be going Sat. You are wearing yourself out with having to do this Community Service too. You said that you won't leave RIP with a babysitter to go to an Alanon Meeting, for YOURSELF, but you will to go to something for John."
"When I put myself into a place called Nova House, which was a 9 month to a year long program, my husand came to every single thing they had. Oh, I thought he just loved me so, but looking back, what this did was distract me from the real reason I was there. I would call him to bring me out something and he would jump. You are doing exactly what he did, just cushioned my fall, my fall that very well could have ended up as my bottom . . . But didn't. His co dependency and behaviors of caretaking made sure I didn't hit my bottom. Janet, if you truly love him as much as you say you do, you have got to let him feel some of the pain Honey! You are making this too easy. Hell, if I was married to a man like you, I would have been dead long ago. I know that sounds horrible how I worded it, what I mean is, I would have just continued to use until that one day when I took one too many pills or had one too many drinks with pills in me and I never woke up."
I'm taking the baby with me. I have a Celebrate Recovery meeting tonight. She will be with a babysitter for more than 3 hours tonight after being in daycare all day and then tomorrow, she'll be with a babysitter for 5 hours while I try to finish the last of my community service.
"Honey, I just wish you would back off! You don't need to be going Sat. You are wearing yourself out with having to do this Community Service too. You said that you won't leave RIP with a babysitter to go to an Alanon Meeting, for YOURSELF, but you will to go to something for John."
"When I put myself into a place called Nova House, which was a 9 month to a year long program, my husand came to every single thing they had. Oh, I thought he just loved me so, but looking back, what this did was distract me from the real reason I was there. I would call him to bring me out something and he would jump. You are doing exactly what he did, just cushioned my fall, my fall that very well could have ended up as my bottom . . . But didn't. His co dependency and behaviors of caretaking made sure I didn't hit my bottom. Janet, if you truly love him as much as you say you do, you have got to let him feel some of the pain Honey! You are making this too easy. Hell, if I was married to a man like you, I would have been dead long ago. I know that sounds horrible how I worded it, what I mean is, I would have just continued to use until that one day when I took one too many pills or had one too many drinks with pills in me and I never woke up."
I'm taking the baby with me. I have a Celebrate Recovery meeting tonight. She will be with a babysitter for more than 3 hours tonight after being in daycare all day and then tomorrow, she'll be with a babysitter for 5 hours while I try to finish the last of my community service.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
There is a beautiful word in recovery -
BALANCE
Another wonderful idea in recovery is
"Can I do this for another person and not have any expections, future resentments or ill feelings? Especially if the other person never acknowledges it, accepts it or does what I believe they should do?"
So many times (I am speaking from my own experience) we can do things for the loved ones in our lives (make appts, cook supper, wash clothes, blah, blah,blah) thinking we are doing this out of love, support, and being a good wife/mother/girlfriend -but in actuality we are doing it because we HOPE that it will push the other person to another action.
If we work on our recovery and we get to a point where I can do these things without any expections - then I also have to watch my BALANCE meter - am I doing all these things for others without doing any thing for myself?
In doing all these things for my loved ones - am I steal an opportunity for them to expand their growth? Their self-esteem? Their dignity and self-worth?
It is a very fine line and probably one that would have to be assessed on an individual basis. Probably even at each instance.
I believe there are no cut and dried - right or wrong answers - You have to look at your individual situation - Your thoughts, feelings and actions - just as much as you have to look at the way your loved one is acting also.
I can understand our Recovery family stressing don't do anything for the A's in our lives. The place I'm in right now - I would love to tell you - Kick their butts to the curb and don't do a single thing for anyone. But that would be me allowing my personal path influence something that some of you may never encounter. That's not recovery for me.
Recovery is letting you know my e, s, and h - This is what I am going thru - you should be aware so that you can prepare yourself - but you must also make your own decisions and choose your path.
Wishing you Serenity, Joy and Love,
Rita
BALANCE
Another wonderful idea in recovery is
"Can I do this for another person and not have any expections, future resentments or ill feelings? Especially if the other person never acknowledges it, accepts it or does what I believe they should do?"
So many times (I am speaking from my own experience) we can do things for the loved ones in our lives (make appts, cook supper, wash clothes, blah, blah,blah) thinking we are doing this out of love, support, and being a good wife/mother/girlfriend -but in actuality we are doing it because we HOPE that it will push the other person to another action.
If we work on our recovery and we get to a point where I can do these things without any expections - then I also have to watch my BALANCE meter - am I doing all these things for others without doing any thing for myself?
In doing all these things for my loved ones - am I steal an opportunity for them to expand their growth? Their self-esteem? Their dignity and self-worth?
It is a very fine line and probably one that would have to be assessed on an individual basis. Probably even at each instance.
I believe there are no cut and dried - right or wrong answers - You have to look at your individual situation - Your thoughts, feelings and actions - just as much as you have to look at the way your loved one is acting also.
I can understand our Recovery family stressing don't do anything for the A's in our lives. The place I'm in right now - I would love to tell you - Kick their butts to the curb and don't do a single thing for anyone. But that would be me allowing my personal path influence something that some of you may never encounter. That's not recovery for me.
Recovery is letting you know my e, s, and h - This is what I am going thru - you should be aware so that you can prepare yourself - but you must also make your own decisions and choose your path.
Wishing you Serenity, Joy and Love,
Rita
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Originally Posted by sailorjohn
While someone else's experience might suggest to them that having someone in their life for support made them want to quit, everything I've ever read on the subject-and my own personal experience as an alcoholic- suggests the exact opposite, people don't stop doing what they're doing until the pain far outweighs any pleasure they might derive from the behavior.
And also, some people are not as strong to be "shaken" out of their misery through harsh words. That turns some people away.
But I agree on the other points with you.
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Originally Posted by winnie12
I want to add that I was married for 11 years to a man who had an internet and porn addiction. (i hate even writing that because it turns my stomach to this day but its the truth). Through it all I was determined to be a good wife and took my marriage vows very seroiusly- to stand by him and try to help him. No one who knew what was going on understood - even my own parents (who are strictly against divorce) thought i should leave him. I took care of the house and the kids, I supported us during all the many times that he was unemployed - i did everything that i thought a good wife was supposed to do - all the time i was holding onto a dream that if I were a good enough wife that he would come around in the end and be the man that i know he could be. I became the rock of the family and the one that everyone depended on. In the end all my efforts didnt save our marriage because he couldnt love me and carry on his addiction at the same time. I interfered with his addiction by my mere presence in his life. I put my foot down with him eventually and three days later he went to work and never came home.
In hindsight i see that all those years that i took care of everything I was just delaying him hitting bottom. He's 41 years old and cannot take care of himself. He lost his job, has no car, and has been sleeping on his brothers couch for year. I really think i was his mother more than i was his wife. I was the caretaker of a man who had the emotional strength of a child. I did it all in the name of Love but now I realize that I was the only one who was really in the marriage.
I took my marriage vows seriously and i dont regret that. I just know that the next time i have a relationship it has to be with someone who doesnt rely on me for their existence.
In hindsight i see that all those years that i took care of everything I was just delaying him hitting bottom. He's 41 years old and cannot take care of himself. He lost his job, has no car, and has been sleeping on his brothers couch for year. I really think i was his mother more than i was his wife. I was the caretaker of a man who had the emotional strength of a child. I did it all in the name of Love but now I realize that I was the only one who was really in the marriage.
I took my marriage vows seriously and i dont regret that. I just know that the next time i have a relationship it has to be with someone who doesnt rely on me for their existence.
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Originally Posted by MrsMagoo
because going to the meeting is making things too easy for him.
"Honey, I just wish you would back off! You don't need to be going Sat. You are wearing yourself out with having to do this Community Service too. You said that you won't leave RIP with a babysitter to go to an Alanon Meeting, for YOURSELF, but you will to go to something for John."
"When I put myself into a place called Nova House, which was a 9 month to a year long program, my husand came to every single thing they had. Oh, I thought he just loved me so, but looking back, what this did was distract me from the real reason I was there. I would call him to bring me out something and he would jump. You are doing exactly what he did, just cushioned my fall, my fall that very well could have ended up as my bottom . . . But didn't. His co dependency and behaviors of caretaking made sure I didn't hit my bottom. Janet, if you truly love him as much as you say you do, you have got to let him feel some of the pain Honey! You are making this too easy. Hell, if I was married to a man like you, I would have been dead long ago. I know that sounds horrible how I worded it, what I mean is, I would have just continued to use until that one day when I took one too many pills or had one too many drinks with pills in me and I never woke up."
I'm taking the baby with me. I have a Celebrate Recovery meeting tonight. She will be with a babysitter for more than 3 hours tonight after being in daycare all day and then tomorrow, she'll be with a babysitter for 5 hours while I try to finish the last of my community service.
"Honey, I just wish you would back off! You don't need to be going Sat. You are wearing yourself out with having to do this Community Service too. You said that you won't leave RIP with a babysitter to go to an Alanon Meeting, for YOURSELF, but you will to go to something for John."
"When I put myself into a place called Nova House, which was a 9 month to a year long program, my husand came to every single thing they had. Oh, I thought he just loved me so, but looking back, what this did was distract me from the real reason I was there. I would call him to bring me out something and he would jump. You are doing exactly what he did, just cushioned my fall, my fall that very well could have ended up as my bottom . . . But didn't. His co dependency and behaviors of caretaking made sure I didn't hit my bottom. Janet, if you truly love him as much as you say you do, you have got to let him feel some of the pain Honey! You are making this too easy. Hell, if I was married to a man like you, I would have been dead long ago. I know that sounds horrible how I worded it, what I mean is, I would have just continued to use until that one day when I took one too many pills or had one too many drinks with pills in me and I never woke up."
I'm taking the baby with me. I have a Celebrate Recovery meeting tonight. She will be with a babysitter for more than 3 hours tonight after being in daycare all day and then tomorrow, she'll be with a babysitter for 5 hours while I try to finish the last of my community service.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 321
Originally Posted by Japic05
There is a beautiful word in recovery -
BALANCE
Another wonderful idea in recovery is
"Can I do this for another person and not have any expections, future resentments or ill feelings? Especially if the other person never acknowledges it, accepts it or does what I believe they should do?"
So many times (I am speaking from my own experience) we can do things for the loved ones in our lives (make appts, cook supper, wash clothes, blah, blah,blah) thinking we are doing this out of love, support, and being a good wife/mother/girlfriend -but in actuality we are doing it because we HOPE that it will push the other person to another action.
If we work on our recovery and we get to a point where I can do these things without any expections - then I also have to watch my BALANCE meter - am I doing all these things for others without doing any thing for myself?
In doing all these things for my loved ones - am I steal an opportunity for them to expand their growth? Their self-esteem? Their dignity and self-worth?
It is a very fine line and probably one that would have to be assessed on an individual basis. Probably even at each instance.
I believe there are no cut and dried - right or wrong answers - You have to look at your individual situation - Your thoughts, feelings and actions - just as much as you have to look at the way your loved one is acting also.
I can understand our Recovery family stressing don't do anything for the A's in our lives. The place I'm in right now - I would love to tell you - Kick their butts to the curb and don't do a single thing for anyone. But that would be me allowing my personal path influence something that some of you may never encounter. That's not recovery for me.
Recovery is letting you know my e, s, and h - This is what I am going thru - you should be aware so that you can prepare yourself - but you must also make your own decisions and choose your path.
Wishing you Serenity, Joy and Love,
Rita
BALANCE
Another wonderful idea in recovery is
"Can I do this for another person and not have any expections, future resentments or ill feelings? Especially if the other person never acknowledges it, accepts it or does what I believe they should do?"
So many times (I am speaking from my own experience) we can do things for the loved ones in our lives (make appts, cook supper, wash clothes, blah, blah,blah) thinking we are doing this out of love, support, and being a good wife/mother/girlfriend -but in actuality we are doing it because we HOPE that it will push the other person to another action.
If we work on our recovery and we get to a point where I can do these things without any expections - then I also have to watch my BALANCE meter - am I doing all these things for others without doing any thing for myself?
In doing all these things for my loved ones - am I steal an opportunity for them to expand their growth? Their self-esteem? Their dignity and self-worth?
It is a very fine line and probably one that would have to be assessed on an individual basis. Probably even at each instance.
I believe there are no cut and dried - right or wrong answers - You have to look at your individual situation - Your thoughts, feelings and actions - just as much as you have to look at the way your loved one is acting also.
I can understand our Recovery family stressing don't do anything for the A's in our lives. The place I'm in right now - I would love to tell you - Kick their butts to the curb and don't do a single thing for anyone. But that would be me allowing my personal path influence something that some of you may never encounter. That's not recovery for me.
Recovery is letting you know my e, s, and h - This is what I am going thru - you should be aware so that you can prepare yourself - but you must also make your own decisions and choose your path.
Wishing you Serenity, Joy and Love,
Rita
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Posts: 61
Yesterday,
Thank you for posting this. I was struggling for a long time over what "enabling" and "helping" were. And I would have to agree with your point of view.
I think that doing normal household chores - dinner, laundry, etc. - would not be enabling the addict. I have been a single parent for may years now and have always shouldered those responsibilities. My ABF does not work (he is looking though our small town is still reeling from the economic downturn) and stays at home with my children while I do. When I'm at work, he is in charge of keeping up the house and doing what needs to be done while I am away.
He has asked me to make appointments for him but only because he is intimated by doctors. I make the appointments and he does all the talking, unless something is confusing to him. (I have been in the medical field for years and worked as a trauma medic, so I understand the ins and outs of it.) I can't blame him for not understanding, some people don't. It's like this: if I needed to have work done on my car, I would take someone who is knowledgeable about autos with me so that I understand what's going on.
There is a fine line between "enabling" and "helping" but I think if boundaries are laid out, then the line can be wider than first appearance.
No one should be afraid to post. This is a place of support for us all and should remain that way. Each of us have different experiences and life trials which make our opinions different. I ask for advice and then decide for myself what I will follow and what I will not.
Thank you for posting, Yesterday. And thanks for bringing this to light.
Thank you for posting this. I was struggling for a long time over what "enabling" and "helping" were. And I would have to agree with your point of view.
I think that doing normal household chores - dinner, laundry, etc. - would not be enabling the addict. I have been a single parent for may years now and have always shouldered those responsibilities. My ABF does not work (he is looking though our small town is still reeling from the economic downturn) and stays at home with my children while I do. When I'm at work, he is in charge of keeping up the house and doing what needs to be done while I am away.
He has asked me to make appointments for him but only because he is intimated by doctors. I make the appointments and he does all the talking, unless something is confusing to him. (I have been in the medical field for years and worked as a trauma medic, so I understand the ins and outs of it.) I can't blame him for not understanding, some people don't. It's like this: if I needed to have work done on my car, I would take someone who is knowledgeable about autos with me so that I understand what's going on.
There is a fine line between "enabling" and "helping" but I think if boundaries are laid out, then the line can be wider than first appearance.
No one should be afraid to post. This is a place of support for us all and should remain that way. Each of us have different experiences and life trials which make our opinions different. I ask for advice and then decide for myself what I will follow and what I will not.
Thank you for posting, Yesterday. And thanks for bringing this to light.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
I will just add one thing...some of us recovering codies are also recovering addicts. We do see things a little differently, and we are probably quicker to point out the A's "bad" side...because we've lived it.
I have used capital letters in my posts, but not to yell at anyone...more to emphasize what I wanted to say. I just realized that, in this thread, I feel uncomfortable expressing what I really want to say, so I wish you all the best...but I am bowing out.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I have used capital letters in my posts, but not to yell at anyone...more to emphasize what I wanted to say. I just realized that, in this thread, I feel uncomfortable expressing what I really want to say, so I wish you all the best...but I am bowing out.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Hi. I learned something new that I want to share here, since Mrs Magoo brought up Celebrate Recovery. The program is not just geared to drug addicts or alcoholics. It is geared to anyone who is addicted to anything - ie... codependents, food... etc. It's different than AA or NA and from what I've heard very effective. It's a christian based program and I encourage anyone here who professes to be Christian to check it out. It may be a good alternative for people who have hang-ups about going to alanon or naranon meetings.
I guess it's all about perspective, eh YN? You seem like a smart girl. I'm sure you'll find the answers to your problems.
There's a diff between what you may of thought being a loving and caring wife and being a doormat is.
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