justtired

I heard a load of it last night. I tried hard to stand my ground, but boy can the guy talk a good game. The problem is, that he is not only an addict, but he was a philosophy major in college. He is TRAINED to argue and make a point out of nothing. That, my friends, is a dangerous thing!!!

So I finally spilled. Told him that I don't trust him and that no matter what he tells me, i do not believe him. I told him that he could STOP taking his pills (which he said he would) and I wouldn't trust that he did not have a stash somewhere hidden or that he wouldn't go back to drinking. His words after this were, "I can't believe you think I'm a junkie". He tells me that I always give everyone else the benefit of the doubt, but here I am prosecuting him. He says that I'm CHOOSING to believe the things that I believe. He claims that when things were out of control, it was mostly his doctors' fault (he'd take some of it) because he went in almost in tears because he was in so much pain with the "ibs" and he didn't help him. So that got him to a point where he would do anything to stop the pain. For the last two months he's had double prescription for hydrocodone because he has some sort of knee damage. The second month, he was out about 8 days early! He makes it sound like it's not so bad. He was so itchy that he literally scratched until he bled all over his shoulders. His teeth are falling out which he attributes to the Mountain Dew he drinks and that his mouth is dry from his meds. I don't see anyone else's teeth falling out and I'm sure there are people out there taking just as much as he is prescribed. I mean, sure, maybe these things could have other explanations, but doesn't it seem unlikely that he would just happen to have teeth falling out, gained weight, bleeding shoulders and sleeping until after 2:00 in the afternoon. Plus, I SEE him get way too happy at night. At his worst he was loading himself up with meds so badly that he was in a horrible depression. He'd go out to his truck and sit with the music on and come back in the house and grab the meds. When the meds ran out, the depression went away. Yet he said to me that if we broke up and he was upset and depressed, that everyone would think that he was abusing his pills because he's not allowed to get depressed.

That was a whole lot of crazymaking that made me feel just that. There are so many signs, but when i point them out, he makes me feel like a complete idiot and horrible girlfriend for thinking these things. He says I'm choosing what i believe and seeing what I want. Oh, believe me when i tell you that I DO NOT WANT TO SEE HIM BE AN ADDICT! Pretty sure if I'm going to fool myself, I'm going to fool myself the other way around.

I'm sorry I'm rambling. It was just a hard night... So then he says, well I'm 36 years old and I need to move forward. I wanted to do this with you and blah blah blah. It was totally heading toward an ended relationship, when he suddenly changed the topic. He says, oh by the way, I was quoted in the paper again today. And then he just acted normal as if we weren't having a very serious conversation. Then he hints at "what a lot of people do after they have negotiations like we had". Um... NO!!!

Anyway, so I fell for the distraction last night and let it go. I was so determined to make that be the LAST conversation we had like that. This morning I wrote him a note telling him that I was sorry, but he's right and I need to let him move forward without me. That our relationship was damaged and the trust was gone. I was so upset. I was still planning to go in to work and was half way there when I decided that was just stupid. I called in sick, came back home and ripped up the note. I can't end a 9 year relationship with a note. But i don't know how to do it face to face either. Maybe I'm just not quite ready? I just want all this over with so I can focus on myself and getting myself back on my feet.

I was feeling good yesterday. Now I'm full of hurt and questioning myself again. I wish this was easier!!!

Oh, and also, (sorry, had an afterthought) he said that he knows he has a problem with addiction and the main reason is that he has trouble coping. He says he is talking about coping with his psychologist who knows all of this. My thought is that if people could just go to a psychologist to learn to cope, wouldn't everyone just do that? Why would anyone go through recovery clinics and AA and NA if they could keep using their pain meds and just go to a psychiatrist to learn how to cope???

Sorry for the very LONG vent!!!!

Impurrfect

You're right, he is quacking.

As far as him being an addict because he can't cope...he's probably right...most of us A's start using for one reason or another...some because we like the high...me? I used t numb feelings I didn't want to feel.

HOWEVER, once I became an addict, learning to deal with my feelings was only a part of my recovery. That's why, most A's, can't just go to a psychiatrist, take care of the initial problem, and be "cured" of addiction.

I'm sorry he's thrown you for a loop. When I would have these kind of conversations, begin doubting myself again, I would have to step back, a bit, and regroup. The more I listened to HIM, the more I doubted MYSELF. By stepping back, and watching his actions, it got a lot clearer, again.

Take a deep breath, I'd recommend telling him "I need some time to think" if he wants any more of these deep conversations, and stick close to your support...whether it's here, meetings, or a combination of both.

Whatever you do, take care of you, sweetie.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

kj3880

What about "taking a break" while he stops using? You will enjoy the peaceful lack of quacking so much you may not want to resume the relationship if and when he gets clean.

KJ

steve137

my x gf said the same thing about not being a junkie whenever i would question her about using. she seems a bit like your bf. its like they think if they go to a therapist a couple times the drugs will go away. i dont think they comprehend that they have to change their lives. it is a tough place to be in, i know. there are two deep downs inside of me- one says i am better off without her, the other says i love her and want to be with her. i am nearly exhausted and the two deep downs dont even have the energy to fight it out anymore. i know i know what is best, but i cannot bring myself to listen.

BayAreaPhoenix

Deflection. Minimizing. Denial. = Crazy Making!

my XAH did the same thing - on everything!

k1a2t3h4r5y6n7

mine was similar, but instead of "i can't believe you don't trust me" it was "it's not healthy for you to be consumed with the thought of me relapsing. you need some help." i was like "i'm not consumed with the thought, but don't think it doesn't cross my mind now and then what i would do if you DID relapse"

and on top of that, it sounds so self-righteous for him to tell me that i need help and i need to work my steps and go to meetings. what is the difference in him doing that and me trying to convince him to get help for himself?

also, when my A was in active addiction, his mouth was always really dry too. he contributed everything to all of the many medications he took, and, for a long time, so did I. excuses excuses excuses.

SHAMAN

Sounds familiar. There was always the unstated, yet clear, sense that my ex would leave if I pushed too hard. The relationship was fine as long as I didn't place expectations on her behavior, ask for explanations, or God forbid need the accountability requied of a grown-up relationship. Though I was accused of believing I was always right, which hinted I was being unreasonably controlling, the unstated threat of leaving was a tactic to control me.

Is this my ex's fault? As easy as it would be and as much as I'd like to blame her... NO. And as much as it hurt, I should have ended the relationship sooner myself. I've learned I wasn't being held hostage, but rather, that I was holding myself hostage based on fear of abandonment, the fear of another failed relationship, etc. Maybe even I was holding her hostage, despite the best of intentions, keeping her from finding her own way in life.

That's just me, of course, but all I can own is my own pathology in relationships. The clearer I become about me, the clearer I become about what is mine to own and what is not.

And I have to accept, some people will always desire ignorance, as opposed to enlightenment of themselves, as much as I would like more for them. I find the people I am most leary of are those that don't know... and don't know they don't know. Much easier to fix my 'picker' than someone else's pathology.

Many Blessings,
Shaman

winnie12

It takes a lifetime to build up trust but only one betrayal to loose it.
bottom line is it doesnt matter what he thinks when you talk about how you feel.

cessy68

Hey there- I feel your pain my friend. As noted before in our previous talks..... we are walking a similar path.

This sucks, and I have been down your road, up , back, down, up, back, up....it keeps going up and down.

I have ended things before, then the pain and misery gets too hard....and I crumble. And end up settleing for crumbs.


Please, try not to do that - it's so hard. I know my words WILL NOT help you end it for good, nor should they. However, sometimes, when you hear that someone else has been there- IS THERE... . the SUPPORT, and not feeling ALONE helps.

If you need to vent, keep on venting. I'm here ANYTIME you need to get it off your chest.

Love,
Cessy

P.s... I think our guys could have a very stiff compotition on who's a better quacker.... you have a philosopher/quacker, I have a used car guy/quacker!!!! OMG......

A little humor never hurts...

Chino

Perception is 9/10ths of reality

justtired

He's not actually going to stop using. He said he would if I asked him to. I don't want to be responsible for forcing him to quit and then blaming being in pain on me. Then he'll probably just resent me. A break is a good idea though.

justtired

lol. That cracked me up.

I think if I could get out the door, I'd be okay. I'm not worried about me really. I mean it will be hard and it's a big part of my life I'd be leaving behind so that's scary. But I just have a hard time hurting HIM. I'm not good at hurting people. (Not that that is a trait I want). I just don't know how to break someone's heart who I do love. How do you rip someone's heart out and stomp on it??? I mean the man wants to propose. To spend his life with me. I just don't know how to do it!!!

suchAsucker

Ooooh the Q-U-A-C-K-I-N-G! Lately, when he quacks I stop whatever I'm doing and stare at him with my mouth open --trying to think of *anything* worth saying in reply to the quack. Then I just close my mouth, say everything that needs to be said WITH ONLY MY EYES and walk out of the room to resume whatever activity I was doing prior to his interruptive quack.

:wtf2

justtired

Thanks everyone for your replies. It really helps a lot to hear that this behavior is typical. Kind of helps me to see through what he says.

I was replaying the whole conversation in my mind and I think that the biggest thing I'm mad about is that when I said, "I don't think you know how bad that scared me or how much that hurt me", he said, "I know and that's why I've said I'm sorry. You don't think that I hurt during that time too? You think I was happy?"

This conversation was not about him. Yes, I know it was hard for him. But if I ever turned someone's life upside down like that and treated him the way he treated me... I would be begging forgiveness every day for the rest of my life.
Conversations with him don't feel like heart-felt discussions. It feels like a debate. Like who is going to win this one and who's points are more valid.

Anyway, thanks everyone for reading and responding. It really helps to have the support here.

WLDKATZ

you were saying you were ready just not with a note or face to face????? just do it.....take care of you, if he wants to play catch up then he can but dont let go of the positve side of you............good luck..........I was a good quacker at one point and time as well..................

good luck,
Pamm

livingalie

You're not stomping on his heart if you leave to give him time to deal with himself. He has already done that to you by breaking your trust in him.

Wow. I just re-read what you wrote and it is identical to my relationship. My ABF has asked me to marry him as well and professes how he wants to spend his life with me. I used to swoon and be all giddy about being his mrs. until the addiction came around full circle. Then I thought, "I can't marry this guy until he gest his life together." Lord, my life is in the crapper now because of all that has happened already. And to attach myself to him like that? No thank you. Not right now anyway.

What I saw in him asking me to marry him was that he wanted to make me feel important. He wanted me to feel special and good so it would distract me from him. And most of the times when he would ask me, he would disappear that same night. Can't tell you what that made me feel like.

Yes, he may say those things, but step back and see what he MEANS by it. And he very well may want to be with you for the rest of his life, but he's an addict. I love mine more than you can imagine, but I know his tricks and games. Just like he knows how to distract me from his addiction.

In a Tailspin

My now Xabf used to talk about getting married a LOT when we were first together, but I was certain I wasn't ready to go there again and said I was in no hurry. He has since admitted to me that the reason that he used to "push" that idea so much was that he wanted to *tie me down* before I realized that I deserved SO MUCH MORE than what he had to offer......before the smoke and mirrors of a new relationship cleared........before his addiction reared its ugly head and introduced itself to me. How completely selfish of him!! Sounds to me like yours is of equal selfishness. How grateful I am that I put the big kabosh on his plans!!

livingalie

I think so as well. That's why I've told him marriage is off the table until I decide he is strong in his sobriety. At first, he took that as, "Ok, it's been a week. That should be enough for her." Nope. I told him a minimum of 18 months needs to be behind him before we even TALK about it again. I'm sure you all felt the earth shake when his jaw hit the floor last week. Me, I just smiled and went on about my way.

He started to mention again the other day and I cut him off at the pass. I told him, 'Forget it. I've already made my decision about marriage. Don't bring it up again. You need to be secure in your sobriety and stable with yourself before you can even think about taking on that kind of responsbility. He!!, you can't even shower on a regular basis!"

He tucked tail and ran. I think I killed that conversation.

Limiya

That whole marriage convo just made me smile. How these addicts think if they marry us it will make things better for them or us? It's laughable.

I don't even live with my abf luckily. On thursday when he was high on coke and alchohol, he wouldn't let me sleep at all. I got angry and upset and frustrated due to lack of sleep.
He then said 'Well i was thinkin of us living together but if you're gonna be such a selfish cow everytime i want to have a "social" then forget it'
I agreed. I thought there is no way i could live with a man who does this twice/three times a week, i would much rather live alone.

So now i'm at home, catching up on rest and sleep and re-evaluating this whole thing. It's ok for him to sleep when he's tired, and if someone wakes him, all hell breaks loose. But i'm not allowed if he's high.
The quacking is rediculous too. He was saying 'you jnow you've blown it now. We're finished'. I'd say... ok good. Then he'd get angry cause i didn't beg him. Then 5 minutes later he says 'If this happens again we are definitely finished'.
I just laughed inside.

livingalie

This is so my life with my abf! He used to do that to me. He'd swear - through a fit of screaming - he was leaving. Pack his bag, give me dirty looks, the whole nine. He'd drop everything at the door and say, "You really want me to leave?" Once I told him 'yes' and he got angry at me for not fighting for "our love". :wtf2
So I walked into the other room, he follows and says, "This was just a warning. The NEXT time, I am really leaving and I will NEVER look back! You're so selfish!" You know, he's been 'leaving' for the better part of 8 months now. I'm still waiting on him to make it through the door so I can close it completely.