Need some insight on the next step...divorce
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Join Date: May 2008
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Thanks HK - Believe it or not I HAVE taken steps to protect myself financially. AH is still entitled to give me 1/2 of his 401k even though it's gone. It will be taken out of the marital assets, so he will be like an 18 year old starting over in life with nothing but a work car, clothes and no place to live. How far he's fallen - it's amazing to me.
On top of all of this, the rehab calls today because insurance is STILL in process. They say they're dismissing him tomorrow. So all of this other $hit takes a backseat I guess, because I have to yet again put everything aside for insurance. I flippin' hate addiction.
On top of all of this, the rehab calls today because insurance is STILL in process. They say they're dismissing him tomorrow. So all of this other $hit takes a backseat I guess, because I have to yet again put everything aside for insurance. I flippin' hate addiction.
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Callie,
You didn't cause this, babe, and you can't control it or cure it. You have GOT to protect yourself financially. I know when I finally filed for divorce from my AH, the real motivator was financial and it did make me sick to think that I was so callous. But it was the right thing to do. He will turn HIS life around IF he chooses, not for you, not for your marriage, and not for your children. We all know this from experience. It is terrible, yes. It is sad and awful, yes. But it's addiction. It takes prisoners, is not loving nor can it see into the future the devastation it is causing and will cause. You can see this, Callie. Please protect yourself and step away from the addict and the addiction. You aren't the addict.
You didn't cause this, babe, and you can't control it or cure it. You have GOT to protect yourself financially. I know when I finally filed for divorce from my AH, the real motivator was financial and it did make me sick to think that I was so callous. But it was the right thing to do. He will turn HIS life around IF he chooses, not for you, not for your marriage, and not for your children. We all know this from experience. It is terrible, yes. It is sad and awful, yes. But it's addiction. It takes prisoners, is not loving nor can it see into the future the devastation it is causing and will cause. You can see this, Callie. Please protect yourself and step away from the addict and the addiction. You aren't the addict.
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Originally Posted by bognot1977 
Your MIL is a meddling, enabling, home wrecker. She reminds me of my own.
It's a road I cannot go down because the resentment is just waaaaay too fresh.
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i just need to echo hello-kitty about the option of a legal separation. and while you are both legally separated, it would probably be a good idea to have no interactions, except to arrange for visitation. obviously he still needs to visit his children, some place neutral.
you have grown up with this man. he has been your family for all these years. even though you have carried the weight of responsibility throughout the marriage, you have never known real independence. you were a baby when you united with him.
so the step into divorce and the cutting away entirely of the life you have made with him may be much harder for you, or scarier, than for women who have had some years of independence in their histories.
if it seems too overwhelming emotionally to manage a full blown divorce right now, legal separation for a year seems a good choice. you are pretty much in pieces right now. it would give you time to reach for the glue. on your own.
much love to you, callie.
you have grown up with this man. he has been your family for all these years. even though you have carried the weight of responsibility throughout the marriage, you have never known real independence. you were a baby when you united with him.
so the step into divorce and the cutting away entirely of the life you have made with him may be much harder for you, or scarier, than for women who have had some years of independence in their histories.
if it seems too overwhelming emotionally to manage a full blown divorce right now, legal separation for a year seems a good choice. you are pretty much in pieces right now. it would give you time to reach for the glue. on your own.
much love to you, callie.
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((Callie))
When I got locked up, I was 45, had nothing but the clothes on my back. I got a job, waiting tables while I was in the diversion center..rode the bus 2 hours, each way, to get there. When I was released, I rented a motel room, only 6 miles from work, but it was a 2-1/2 hour trip, each way, taking 2 buses and a train to get there. I owed more money than I make in 3 years....credit cards I ran up when I was making $40/hour as a nurse.
Yes, I eventually moved home, months later, after I had worked enough to get a car, but only because I was out of work for a month with a staph infection and because I was working, and I paid rent as soon as I went back to work. My dad also needed that extra $400/month and I was able to start working with him...helping me, with $$, and him by taking a load off of him.
My dad felt sorry for me, too, but he still allowed me to deal with my stuff. I'm obviously not saying let him come home, as your situation is totally different than mine with my dad and stepmom. I'm just saying we A's NEED to deal with our stuff and there is no "right time". Yes, it would probably be better if it could be done when he's in rehab, and surrounded by people who are trained to help him deal with it, but Freedom and I (and a lot of others) can attest to the fact, that getting smacked in the face with reality and just having to deal with it, works too.
If he really wants his recovery, he will find it. Period. Consequences suck, and there's no way around them. I'm still dealing with mine, and I'll have 2 years clean in a couple of weeks. Some, I will deal with for a lifetime. I could sit around and whine and say "poor me", or I can be grateful for the lessons I've learned, and move on...which is what I'm doing.
I think you're doing great, and I know this is hard, but I'm glad you are seeing that you and the kids are the focus here. By all means, protect the 3 of you, and let him deal with his stuff. I've known A's get in far more debt, than he has, and still get their act together and have successful lives. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
When I got locked up, I was 45, had nothing but the clothes on my back. I got a job, waiting tables while I was in the diversion center..rode the bus 2 hours, each way, to get there. When I was released, I rented a motel room, only 6 miles from work, but it was a 2-1/2 hour trip, each way, taking 2 buses and a train to get there. I owed more money than I make in 3 years....credit cards I ran up when I was making $40/hour as a nurse.
Yes, I eventually moved home, months later, after I had worked enough to get a car, but only because I was out of work for a month with a staph infection and because I was working, and I paid rent as soon as I went back to work. My dad also needed that extra $400/month and I was able to start working with him...helping me, with $$, and him by taking a load off of him.
My dad felt sorry for me, too, but he still allowed me to deal with my stuff. I'm obviously not saying let him come home, as your situation is totally different than mine with my dad and stepmom. I'm just saying we A's NEED to deal with our stuff and there is no "right time". Yes, it would probably be better if it could be done when he's in rehab, and surrounded by people who are trained to help him deal with it, but Freedom and I (and a lot of others) can attest to the fact, that getting smacked in the face with reality and just having to deal with it, works too.
If he really wants his recovery, he will find it. Period. Consequences suck, and there's no way around them. I'm still dealing with mine, and I'll have 2 years clean in a couple of weeks. Some, I will deal with for a lifetime. I could sit around and whine and say "poor me", or I can be grateful for the lessons I've learned, and move on...which is what I'm doing.
I think you're doing great, and I know this is hard, but I'm glad you are seeing that you and the kids are the focus here. By all means, protect the 3 of you, and let him deal with his stuff. I've known A's get in far more debt, than he has, and still get their act together and have successful lives. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Man Callie -
Hello? That's my AH too. No home (well mommy's), no car (well mommy's Geo Metro), no job (well mommy's allowance), no savings. All for what? What a shame. And at 34 starting from square one again.
I totally get what you're sayin.
Hello? That's my AH too. No home (well mommy's), no car (well mommy's Geo Metro), no job (well mommy's allowance), no savings. All for what? What a shame. And at 34 starting from square one again.
I totally get what you're sayin.
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Originally Posted by hello-kitty
Life is full of choices... I think stepping back and acknowledging that we have them is a great starting point in our recoveries.
Sorry, but this is what I"m dealing with. This is the truth from my world. It's not as simple as cutting him off or turning my back on him...he'll be dead. I'm sure I'll regret hitting send because I'll get nailed. I've gotten my floor swept AND mopped. The kids are in bed with a good meal. Let me face my wrath tomorrow. This is what I'm dealing with right now. Damn I just wish I could understand.
I'm seriously college educated, bach degree, minor in psych. . . But I just need to understand for myself.
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((Callie)) but at what point are you going to accept you've done everything you can? I mean, seriously, are you going to help him along with his recovery for the rest of his life...just because he doesn't want to?
The only thing we're saying, is though he may feel like he doesn't want to live, right now, you don't know what he may feel like if he gets some clean time. You're trying to read his mind, sweetie, and you can't do that. You may be right. However, you may be wrong.
I do understand what you're saying, but I just think that, at some point, you're going to have to let his dad, or someone else take over if that's the way it's going to be.
I'm not going to criticize you...you have choices, and just like everyone else, you will live with the consequences of your choices. I know you're aware of this.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
The only thing we're saying, is though he may feel like he doesn't want to live, right now, you don't know what he may feel like if he gets some clean time. You're trying to read his mind, sweetie, and you can't do that. You may be right. However, you may be wrong.
I do understand what you're saying, but I just think that, at some point, you're going to have to let his dad, or someone else take over if that's the way it's going to be.
I'm not going to criticize you...you have choices, and just like everyone else, you will live with the consequences of your choices. I know you're aware of this.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Location: Seattle, WA
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You don't understand though .. . He won't do it. He'll kill himself first.
After I left, you know what? He didn't kill himself. He found some other chick to sustain his addiction. ahh... I digress.
The good part was I decided for the sake of my sanity, to quit blowing up his life raft. So he decided to blow it up himself. It was a step in the right direction - letting him be man enough to face his demons on his own.
He's not strong enough.
In order for him to get better, he must WANT to get better more than he wants to die. Otherwise, he's a ticking time bomb taking you and the kids down with him.
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to nail you. You asked about divorce and I suggested legal separation as away to distance yourself and protect your family. Just like him, when you are done with this, you will walk away. Nothing anyone here says can get you to that point. And there's no way of knowing that this isn't his bottom. Maybe this is it for him. Maybe he's really done. Maybe you'll get all this insurance fixed for him. He'll get out of rehab. He won't use dope again. It'll all be hunky dory.
But still. This was about you wanting a divorce. Not about him killing himself. So I guess even if you fix all his problems, you still have your own that you are going to need to deal with. I'm sorry you are so conflicted. Maybe put some of your energy into resolving these issues. Work with a counselor or something. I hate seeing you suffer like this for so long. I don't even know how you stand it.
Are you in counseling or something for YOU and the girls? Just to help with this. Cuz I see you walking the same path over and over and over. And I just feel bad for y'all. How many times have you had to fix the insurance for him? And how many times has he gotten better? Actually I think he's just getting worse... That's the nature of addiction though. Until he realizes no one is going to save him, he isn't going to save himself.
Hang in there sweetie. You are really loved on this board!
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Callie, I saw my therapist again today and we continued focusing on last weeks "nothing is personal" theme. That every thought, action or word that comes from another towards me is a projection of their reality, not mine, and vice versa.
Going with that, I'm switching your thoughts about him to you:
If that doesn't make you think twice about projecting your reality onto him, I don't know what will.
Relinquishing the responsibility for our own lives, health, and happiness is all the same - substance abuser or codie - and it's heartbreaking.
Going with that, I'm switching your thoughts about him to you:
Originally Posted by Callie
You don't understand though .. . I won't do it. I'll kill myself first. I'm not as strong as Anvil or Freedom or some of you who have made it to the otherside. You've fought the fight, but you don't understand that I don't give a $hit. I'd just assume be DEAD. I'm just not that strong. FLAT OUT So it falls on him. YES, HE KNOWS I'm putting this guilt on him. So be it, but he cannot walk away without KNOWING that he did everything possible. Because WHEN he's standing over my grave he has to KNOW that he did everything in his power. You can say whatever, but my death falls on him. I'm not strong enough. I'm not.
Relinquishing the responsibility for our own lives, health, and happiness is all the same - substance abuser or codie - and it's heartbreaking.
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Thank you guys. Yesterday was a "normal" day in my world. Then I find out about the 401k, then I get a call from the rehab about insurance. Insurance will be fine because it's being reinstated, but the rehab has been calling me about it threatening to release him about every day until it's reinstated (should be this week). I just haven't had a moments peace since he left it seems. I'll see what the accountant says today. I do appreciate your patience with me.
scorpgrl1978
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Little Rock, AR
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My AH gave me the same spill; "I can't live without you, don't leave me, blah blah blah", we also have two small children together. For the longest time I allowed him to manipulate me with these words; to control me and take me down this horrible web of lies, neglect, betrayal, and emotional abuse. I thought maybe there was one more action or thing I could say that could make him snap out of it, and I was afraid to leave b/c what if I did and then he got better? All fears that I concocted in my own head, and the fears that he put in there as well to keep me with him.
Leaving him, while scary, was also like feeling bricks and bricks of weights being lifted off of me, and feeling like my true self was there to be loved again BY MYSELF; I felt more like me then I had in forever. and it was the right thing to do. My children are a shining example of how much better off they are in a life without an addicted parent. They have me, they have love from all our family, and they have peace. I say it again, I KNOW I DID THE RIGHT THING.
Leaving him, while scary, was also like feeling bricks and bricks of weights being lifted off of me, and feeling like my true self was there to be loved again BY MYSELF; I felt more like me then I had in forever. and it was the right thing to do. My children are a shining example of how much better off they are in a life without an addicted parent. They have me, they have love from all our family, and they have peace. I say it again, I KNOW I DID THE RIGHT THING.
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Callie, my dear, as you know, I didn't go through a rehab...and I had to, as a single parent in the midst of recovery, get my own house out of foreclosure by working my butt off.
It certainly does not, contrary to what this counselor seems to be telling you, help him at all to sheild him from the mess and devastation he has caused with his addiction run wild. In fact, it hurts his recovery. Reaching our bottom, wherever that may be, is what gives most of us the clarity to seek recovery. How is he ever supposed to reach bottom, if people like the counselors, MIL, and sometimes even you (not beating you up, all of us codies did some of the sheilding nonsense), keep him from it??? He needs to know every brutal, cold, hard problem that his addiction caused. And if he can't even handle the truth while on a retreat from the real world in rehab, how in the heck will he deal with it when he comes out?
Why oh why is the insurance your problem? Nobody did it for me. I knew that nobody would be doing it for me. Maybe that is why I found the strength to get better in myself and HP. Give him that gift. Hands off! Don't shield him from a dang thing, including coming up with rehab money or doing an outpatient, as I had to. It is certainly possible. Inpatient rehab is only one way to get clean. It isn't even the best way for everyone. It just is not your problem. his problem. totally.
You know what you need to do. Roll up your sleeves and do it. You deserve the freedom and peace of a divorce. And go or not to the reunion. Now it is your choice. You don't have to answer to your classmates, or anyone else!
Love,
KJ
It certainly does not, contrary to what this counselor seems to be telling you, help him at all to sheild him from the mess and devastation he has caused with his addiction run wild. In fact, it hurts his recovery. Reaching our bottom, wherever that may be, is what gives most of us the clarity to seek recovery. How is he ever supposed to reach bottom, if people like the counselors, MIL, and sometimes even you (not beating you up, all of us codies did some of the sheilding nonsense), keep him from it??? He needs to know every brutal, cold, hard problem that his addiction caused. And if he can't even handle the truth while on a retreat from the real world in rehab, how in the heck will he deal with it when he comes out?
Why oh why is the insurance your problem? Nobody did it for me. I knew that nobody would be doing it for me. Maybe that is why I found the strength to get better in myself and HP. Give him that gift. Hands off! Don't shield him from a dang thing, including coming up with rehab money or doing an outpatient, as I had to. It is certainly possible. Inpatient rehab is only one way to get clean. It isn't even the best way for everyone. It just is not your problem. his problem. totally.
You know what you need to do. Roll up your sleeves and do it. You deserve the freedom and peace of a divorce. And go or not to the reunion. Now it is your choice. You don't have to answer to your classmates, or anyone else!
Love,
KJ
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Callie................I wanted to respond to the post you made about him being weak and that he'd rather die
your addict isnt the first one to say that and YOUR not the first to believe it so deeply that you hang on for dear life hoping to save his somehow
I know first hand because I've been here before and thought the exact same things about my husband
yet one night he relapsed and a few days later he tried to end his life( not the first time while coming down from the drugs)
It was this time that I finally "got" the phrase "let go and let god"
I came to realise that I cant keep him alive any more than I can keep him clean
only his HP can do that
No matter how hard my husband tries to kill himself he will never be successful unless his HP says its time, lets go
and if and when that time comes theres nothing I can do to stop it............so this is where I have to let go
today my husband is ok, but that could change any minute any hour~~~ thats the fact of life with an addict.......but today I'm working on letting go.......and knowing nothing I DO or dont do will make him use or make him die
HUGS
your addict isnt the first one to say that and YOUR not the first to believe it so deeply that you hang on for dear life hoping to save his somehow
I know first hand because I've been here before and thought the exact same things about my husband
yet one night he relapsed and a few days later he tried to end his life( not the first time while coming down from the drugs)
It was this time that I finally "got" the phrase "let go and let god"
I came to realise that I cant keep him alive any more than I can keep him clean
only his HP can do that
No matter how hard my husband tries to kill himself he will never be successful unless his HP says its time, lets go
and if and when that time comes theres nothing I can do to stop it............so this is where I have to let go
today my husband is ok, but that could change any minute any hour~~~ thats the fact of life with an addict.......but today I'm working on letting go.......and knowing nothing I DO or dont do will make him use or make him die
HUGS
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I have been following your postings for sometime now. You have tried so hard to do the best for your husband. You have done your best thinking and consulting to help your husband. YOUR BEST....From where I sit it seems that your best thinking has resulted in a worse situation. He is worse now than he was before.
It is time to turn this over to your HP. Everyone is suffering. I know when I was in the midst of my H's alcoholism I went through the motions with my children but they did not have ALL of me. I was consumed with his issues and it is hard for me to admit, but they got the short stick for awhile. Callie, your precious kids need all of you. THEY need you to let your husband's addiction go to your HP.
I've been praying for you and I will continue.
It is time to turn this over to your HP. Everyone is suffering. I know when I was in the midst of my H's alcoholism I went through the motions with my children but they did not have ALL of me. I was consumed with his issues and it is hard for me to admit, but they got the short stick for awhile. Callie, your precious kids need all of you. THEY need you to let your husband's addiction go to your HP.
I've been praying for you and I will continue.
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Callie,
I love you and commend you for coming back over and over again. I am personally blown away about the amount of money your AH has spent of drugs!! I don't think John has spent but about $2,000 total in a year and a half. It's still too much.
Sweetie, I understand about the insurance. It's because you and the kids are on it right? I also understand that even if it's not - it's paying for his rehab right now and knowing he's there - safe, away from you and the children has a price tag on it. You're trying to make sure he's getting his best shot at recovery because otherwise he's one needle away from dying. I feel the same way. I don't want to feel that kind of guilt either and I hate the idea of kicking my AH when he's down and trying too.
Not everybody is as strong as the ladies on here. We both know these ladies are the exception to the rule and there is truth in their words and pain in their stories. Maybe females are just better survivors - many had children and came back from the darkness to be better people because they had children. I don't think men have that same connection (no offense if any guys are reading) but I just don't.
I think you should get what you need from psycho MIL and put some distance between the two of you. She is keeping the pot stirred up and the trouble in your face. How long do you have to be seperated in your state to get a divorce. Where I live, it's one year - a long time with no resolution.
Let us know what happened at the accountant's office sweetie. I'll be praying for too and I'll be looking forward to an update.
I love you and commend you for coming back over and over again. I am personally blown away about the amount of money your AH has spent of drugs!! I don't think John has spent but about $2,000 total in a year and a half. It's still too much.
Sweetie, I understand about the insurance. It's because you and the kids are on it right? I also understand that even if it's not - it's paying for his rehab right now and knowing he's there - safe, away from you and the children has a price tag on it. You're trying to make sure he's getting his best shot at recovery because otherwise he's one needle away from dying. I feel the same way. I don't want to feel that kind of guilt either and I hate the idea of kicking my AH when he's down and trying too.
Not everybody is as strong as the ladies on here. We both know these ladies are the exception to the rule and there is truth in their words and pain in their stories. Maybe females are just better survivors - many had children and came back from the darkness to be better people because they had children. I don't think men have that same connection (no offense if any guys are reading) but I just don't.
I think you should get what you need from psycho MIL and put some distance between the two of you. She is keeping the pot stirred up and the trouble in your face. How long do you have to be seperated in your state to get a divorce. Where I live, it's one year - a long time with no resolution.
Let us know what happened at the accountant's office sweetie. I'll be praying for too and I'll be looking forward to an update.
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What I'm going to say now is said in love:
MM, that is BS, my dear. You are in the midst of your own codie drama, and seeing Callie here struggling with keeping her hands out of AH's addiction validates you doing the same type of stuff! You two need to stop cosigning each other's BS!!!! Please!!!!
Every addict who who takes the same steps that I have taken can recover...that's what NA is all about. They just have to want it. "We (in NA) have never seen an addict who takes these steps fail to stay clean!" That is the basic premise of our 12-step program! You did not cause their addiction, and you cannot cure it...but you can drive yourself crazy trying.
And it has nothing to do with the fact that there are more women on SR talking about recovery than there are men. This merely reflects the fact that women communicate more and better than most men do. In fact, men are the majority at NA meetings. Every addict that goes there will tell you that. Men do recover!!!! They certainly can, and they will when they reach bottom and stop digging!
Let these two AHs bottom out! I promise both of you, Callie and MM, that if you let go and let God work in this situation, this will begin to improve, at least for you two and the involved children!
I love you both. And that is all I have to say on this.
KJ
MM, that is BS, my dear. You are in the midst of your own codie drama, and seeing Callie here struggling with keeping her hands out of AH's addiction validates you doing the same type of stuff! You two need to stop cosigning each other's BS!!!! Please!!!!
Every addict who who takes the same steps that I have taken can recover...that's what NA is all about. They just have to want it. "We (in NA) have never seen an addict who takes these steps fail to stay clean!" That is the basic premise of our 12-step program! You did not cause their addiction, and you cannot cure it...but you can drive yourself crazy trying.
And it has nothing to do with the fact that there are more women on SR talking about recovery than there are men. This merely reflects the fact that women communicate more and better than most men do. In fact, men are the majority at NA meetings. Every addict that goes there will tell you that. Men do recover!!!! They certainly can, and they will when they reach bottom and stop digging!
Let these two AHs bottom out! I promise both of you, Callie and MM, that if you let go and let God work in this situation, this will begin to improve, at least for you two and the involved children!
I love you both. And that is all I have to say on this.
KJ
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